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Mods, feel free to move this thread if you don't think it's appropriate for this subforum.

I've noticed there's a trend here of people coming to this forum not being sure of their types, BUT they're so adamant that they're an iNtuitive. Like, "I'm not sure whether I'm an INFJ, ENFP, INFP or INTP, but I'm DEFINITELY an N" and other stuff along that line. They're willing to consider being any type, except a Sensor. Nevermind that Ni and Ne are two very different cognitive functions. Or even worse, "I'm definitely an NT but I don't know which one"...euhm ENTJ/INTP or INTJ/ENTP are nothing alike o_o.

It wouldn't bother me as much if I see people say the same thing for other letters, like, "I'm not sure what my type is, but I'm definitely and unquestionably a Feeler/Extrovert/Perceiver/Judger" etc. but the thing is that this is far less frequent. I don't think I've ever seen that actually. uh.

Why do you think this happens? I mean, I can answer my own question but I'd like to see if there are anyone more optimistic than I am. :rolleyes:
 

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That pisses me off too and I'm glad someone's said it. It's also very common which makes it more annoying. When I considered ISTP about two years back I was hesitant to type myself as one when I saw everyone say "I can't be a sensor because I like to read and I think about things" :p etc. So lurking at other peoples' type me threads did NOT help. When people agreed with ISTP I was thinking "Do they think I'm some mindless drone then?!"

But I think someone who doesn't know if they're a J or P is a bigger problem as far as difference in types go. The J or P makes a huge difference (so once again if someone can't tell if they use Ni or Ne in aux/tertiary if they prefer N over S *sigh*).
 

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I see this too. It pains me so. I see so many people incorrectly assessing the value of each aspect to their type. They tend to look at their top two functions ("I know I'm an NT!") and completely disregard other aspects of their type. I think the problem is they tend to zoom into what they value. The values associated with Intuition are very attractive. I see many intuitives on here afraid to say that they enjoy eating the same meal everyday, or that they like getting together and celebrating a tradition.
I think the reason is, and I'm sure you've heard these before, "intuitives often feel ostracized by the predominately sensor world," "More intuitves on the net" etc. etc.
Besides those... I think the S/N is the aspect of type that gets the most attention.
The honest reason, though, is there is a bias. Not that Sensors are trying to be intuitives, but that intuitives are trying to make it clear that they do have a preference for N.
 

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To tell you the truth, S vs N is probably the least important difference in the system, especially where Se vs Ne is concerned. Feelers and Thinkers have many more differences in processing the world, and are more likely to come into conflict if they don't share thinking and feeling functions (so, dom Fi/Te is likely to clash with dom Ti/Fe). Yet, there is much less bias against thinkers or feelers: I've noticed that some people hold typist attitudes against feelers, but they aren't too widespread, and generally realize their ignorance within a short period of time. So, why does anti-sensor bias even exist? It doesn't make sense.
 

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The descriptions of intuitives, and the descriptions of iNtuition itself are often more flattering or unique-sounding than those of sensors/sensing. Lots of the people read this and want to feel like they have some type of innate, snowflakey persona and do everything they can to confirm that these descriptions do indeed apply to them. It's as if by just applying a label which brings with it the connotation of some type of special or unique intelligence or empathetic ability then they will become some stereotypical version of it. People want to be different, they apply a label which they think makes them different, but they don't actually bother to understand it or themselves, resulting in more and more mistyping.
 

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I don't understand this. I see many ENFPs who I feel are, in fact, ESFPs. And ESFPs are really cool! I went through a period of doubt about my type where I wondered, "Well, I wonder if I use Se or Ne?" And I was honestly going to be okay with typing myself as ESFP. They're awesome. But for whatever reason, Sensory types are apparently more "simple", "not as creative", "not as deep", "doesn't notice deep things", etc according to other people. o_O

I vote that an article should be written on the awesomeness of Sensors. XD Because people really don't understand the difference between Sensing and iNtuiting, and everybody naturally decides "I wanna be an iNtuitive!" Then when you talk to people about the possibility of them being a Sensor, they have this mindset of, "Must. Be. An. iNtuitive." Why? "Because I like playing with theories and read between the lines and I'm complex."

No, no, no. X_x
 

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Oh, finally someone brings this up. It's sad how biased people can be, especially when the S/N difference is subtle and there is much more than just two letters. Cognitive functions swim a lot deeper.

What comes to the anti-sensor bias, like @Dark Romantic phrased it, it's most likely due to a bunch of misunderstandings and generalizations. When you first get into MBTI, most sites on the Internet give you a simplified version where they just talk about the four letters and greatly exaggerate their traits. Seriously, I didn't even know about cognitive functions before I found PerC and started lurking around the forums unregistered.

One thing these simplified versions tell you is that basically Sensors are always fact-based, predictable, nearly animalistic people who never think anything through and only like superficial things. Then they show you iNtuitives, who are described as creative, imaginative, innovative people, almost ingenious. Once I read that it's only an N trait to rely on hunches and use metaphors, and that Sensors don't like reading - no exceptions.

Now, when the types are put down that way, who would want to be a Sensor? One of those simple-minded people who hate deep thinking and can't manage themselves? Meanwhile Sensors are described this way, iNtuitives are made out to be much smarter, superior people who are intellectual and have more depth to them.

This is the reason so many people mistype themselves as Ns; they're not educated enough on the MBTI to distinguish the types properly. Most have no idea about cognitive functions. Imagination and intelligence are naturally valued in our world, and when asked if they're stupid, predictable and superficial or intellectual, innovative and clever, most people will answer the latter. It's not anyone's fault, that's what I did, too. Problem: not nearly enough education. The simplistic sources of information that first pop up when you try to search MBTI are also, unfortunately, usually the only sources people use.

Sadly, even people with education on the cognitive functions and MBTI in general can be ignorant. For some reason it seems to be a thought stuck in the backbone, the whole thing about S's being simple and N's being complex. This thread, although old, absolutely horrified me. How can people think personalities are so black and white?

To break it down, we are all very complicated and the MBTI types are definitely not about just the four letters. The way I see it, the cognitive functions form different kinds of patterns and combinations, which in turn create larger compounds, aka the types. All Sensors are definitely not the same and can never be put in one group, and same goes for iNtuitives. MBTI can never be simplified because the human mind is anything but simple, and to say that one type is worse than the other or that all the people behind one letter can be squeezed into one group is insulting. This is something much more people should understand.
 

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There are so many cliches with type.T's are all thinkers,F' are all feelers,S's are all sensors.We all use all of the functions.I have a couple of close sensor friends(artists)who are just as creative as intuitives.They just use a different process is all..To answer the question i think some people see"intuitives"as more elitest so they just pick it.
 

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You know the funny thing is that true Intuitives are supposed to not be superficial in their perceptions, yet so many people run around claiming to have a preference for Intuition based upon some superficial reasoning.

Actually this thread gets at the heart of why so many people are mistyped. It's simply confirmation bias. They read something that confirms some already-held idea of themselves (bells should be going off about now) and then run off with it. That's not type. If anything the point of MBTI or any personality inventory is to reveal about the person things about themselves for which they were previously unaware. Otherwise what is the point of taking the test if you already know the outcome? The only thing I'm sure of is that I have issues with Sensation and tend to downplay my own Thinking which likely indicates a preference toward Intuition and Feeling. But too many people simply read a type description and then make it work for how they see themselves, which of course isn't the point. Good analysis is designed to challenge the person out of their comfort zone, to give them a fresh perspective.

Telling a true intuitive that he's an intuitive might help clarify some things, but it doesn't really do much beyond that. The real juice is in trying to figure out how he deals with his Sensation - that's where the real fight is.
 

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You know the funny thing is that true Intuitives are supposed to not be superficial in their perceptions, yet so many people run around claiming to have a preference for Intuition based upon some superficial reasoning.

Actually this thread gets at the heart of why so many people are mistyped. It's simply confirmation bias. They read something that confirms some already-held idea of themselves (bells should be going off about now) and then run off with it. That's not type. If anything the point of MBTI or any personality inventory is to reveal about the person things about themselves for which they were previously unaware. Otherwise what is the point of taking the test if you already know the outcome? The only thing I'm sure of is that I have issues with Sensation and tend to downplay my own Thinking which likely indicates a preference toward Intuition and Feeling. But too many people simply read a type description and then make it work for how they see themselves, which of course isn't the point. Good analysis is designed to challenge the person out of their comfort zone, to give them a fresh perspective.

Telling a true intuitive that he's an intuitive might help clarify some things, but it doesn't really do much beyond that. The real juice is in trying to figure out how he deals with his Sensation - that's where the real fight is.
Agreed. D; Stereotypes and biases are very painful and usually not helpful. There's something about stereotypes that gets under my skin in a very peculiar way. It takes a lot for me to be so annoyed and passionate about something. XD This is it right here. Heck, I know that when I read descriptions of N versus S, I'd much rather be an iNtuitive. o_O Because the descriptions lack so much. They over-glorify iNtuition and then chop off all the depth of Sensing.
 

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Totally agree with you on this one. How often do you ever see someone start a thread called, i know i'm a sensor, i just cant' figure out if i'm an I/E. That or, please help me, i know i'm XSXX. Never, you just never see it. So your observation is 100% correct.

What seems to be happening is newbies ( although not all are new ) are reading so much misinformation on this forum, in many cases posted by other newbies or people who are so uneducate/mistyped themselves, they in tern soak all this in as the the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I know this to be true, because I myself when arriving here, i thought the same way. Only when i began to do my own research outside of PerC did i truly begin to really understand the cognitive funtions. I stayed completely away from all the information here. Now don't get me wrong, we have people here( very few ) but still, we do have those who are very educated. There is no way anyone who is new would be able to tell the difference. I wish when i had arrived there was a place i could go that suggest informative memebers, leaving their names so i could follow their knowledge.

So many people are still stuck on the letters themselves, as if the letters are who they are. They don't grasp the meaning behind the letters, or have an understanding there is a meaning/function behind each letter. People get attached to these 4 letters, and in many cases have a hard time letting them go. They begin to feel at home in a particular subforum, and feel as if they don't belong in another, so don't want to help themselves understand that MBTI is not just about 4 letters.

How many times do you see, well it impossible for me to be an I/E. This is another huge issue with functions. They relate these letters with shy, outgoing, social etc. When the reality of it is both I/E can behave this way. P/J same thing. I don't judge people, so i'm can't be a J, i'm really messy so i must be a P. Again, there is not correlation between the two.

So how does one actually either help or tell someone they may be mistyped ? If someone who has any knowledge with the functions points this out, there will be someone who doesn't that will come along with stereotypes to convince them the knowledable one is wrong. And i've seen it happen way too often to know that in most cases they will believe the one who isn't educated/ and possibly/probably mistyped themselves. So the cycle continues.

One of my favorites in the ENFP forum is this. I can't be an INFP. My Te is too strong ( rolls eyes ) and since apparently INFP can't think ( rolls eyes again-sarcastic ) i have to be an ENFP, even if i feel way to introverted to be an extrovert. So there you go with the stereotypes again, INFP can't think near as well as an ENFP, because we all know that both types can't develope their first 4 functions.( sarcastic again ) So many mistypes in all forums, both intuitive and sensors alike.

I personally believe we have tons of sensors here typed as intuitive that are afraid, or feel out of place coming forward with their actual type. That and the fact they don't know any better. I also believe we have sensors who are actually intuitives who are reading too much into misinformation and typing themselves wrong. If intuitive are so rare, then why are we filled with them here, and on other forums too. It doesn't add up or make sense. Someone tried to point out in a thead not so long ago that sensos don't enjoy the internet, theories, that is why we don't have as many here. The internet is for intuitive people. Fucking facepalm, i shut that one down in a hurry, so much BS. No people wake up, many of our intuitives are actually sensors, that is the issue.

I would like to suggest perhaps somehow, someway creating or introducing a sticky that newbies, and misinformed people can go. A place that would mention " Informative members ". Memebers who have really done their homework and can speak through the functions. Those who have a strong grasp, those who can educate people on the differences without any stereotypes included. There may not be many in this position, although i believe we do have a few. And no, i'm certainly not including myself in this group. I'm wondering if this is possible . Anyways my 2 cents with morning java. Still a bit sleep so hopefully it will make some sort of sense. Thanks for creating this thread, i think it was really needed :)
 

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I would like to suggest perhaps somehow, someway creating or introducing a sticky that newbies, and misinformed people can go. A place that would mention " Informative members ". Memebers who have really done their homework and can speak through the functions. Those who have a strong grasp, those who can educate people on the differences without any stereotypes included. There may not be many in this position, although i believe we do have a few. And no, i'm certainly not including myself in this group. I'm wondering if this is possible . Anyways my 2 cents with morning java. Still a bit sleep so hopefully it will make some sort of sense. Thanks for creating the this thread, i think it was really needed :)
^ THIS. We desperately need this. O___O

Erm, Te is not supposed to be particularly "strong" for an ENFP, is it? It's the Tert, right? Which means it's gonna develop more slowly... at least that was my understanding. x3
 

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Or even worse, "I'm definitely an NT but I don't know which one"...euhm ENTJ/INTP or INTJ/ENTP are nothing alike o_o.
The minute Myers-Briggs brought dichotomies into typology, Jung's ideas were flushed down the toilet. I blame David Keirsey for making matters even worse. Fuq dat gai.

Rationals (NTs) are the problem solving temperament, particularly if the problem has to do with the many complex systems that make up the world around us. Rationals might tackle problems in organic systems such as plants and animals, or in mechanical systems such as railroads and computers, or in social systems such as families and companies and governments. But whatever systems fire their curiosity, Rationals will analyze them to understand how they work, so they can figure out how to make them work better. All Rationals share the following core characteristics:

  • Rationals tend to be pragmatic, skeptical, self-contained, and focused on problem-solving and systems analysis.
  • Rationals pride themselves on being ingenious, independent, and strong willed.
  • Rationals make reasonable mates, individualizing parents, and strategic leaders.
  • Rationals are even-tempered, they trust logic, yearn for achievement, seek knowledge, prize technology, and dream of understanding how the world works.
Keirsey Temperament Website - Portrait of the Rational® (NT)

The implication that every NT is this way, and no other temperament can be, has done what may be irreparable damage to typology. Even just calling a temperament things like "rational" or "artisan" encourages stereotypes.
 

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^ THIS. We desperately need this. O___O

Erm, Te is not supposed to be particularly "strong" for an ENFP, is it? It's the Tert, right? Which means it's gonna develop more slowly... at least that was my understanding. x3
I agree we do need it. From my understanding Te is developled at a later stage in life. Of course i don't know the exact age, nor can anyone pin point what that age could be. I'm over thirty and feeling like my Te has only kicked in strong the past few years. I really believe myself personally that these functions can kick start depending on education, work experience and life experience. If i'm surrounded by people who use thinking skills primary, its easy to pick up those skills as well. I think it really depends on the individual , their environment and surroundings. Even habits can play a part. Someone who does a lot of reading for example .
 

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I would like to suggest perhaps somehow, someway creating or introducing a sticky that newbies, and misinformed people can go. A place that would mention " Informative members ". Memebers who have really done their homework and can speak through the functions. Those who have a strong grasp, those who can educate people on the differences without any stereotypes included. There may not be many in this position, although i believe we do have a few. And no, i'm certainly not including myself in this group. I'm wondering if this is possible . Anyways my 2 cents with morning java. Still a bit sleep so hopefully it will make some sort of sense. Thanks for creating the this thread, i think it was really needed :)
That is a good idea. We do have a system by which certified members can be tagged as such, and they have been in the past. Once we have a few, I would be happy to make a sticky in the intro or "what's my type" forum that directs members to this.

I plan to get MBTI certified myself. If I can keep my loathing of the dichotomies under control long enough.
 

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That is a good idea. We do have a system by which certified members can be tagged as such, and they have been in the past. Once we have a few, I would be happy to make a sticky in the intro or "what's my type" forum that directs members to this.

I plan to get MBTI certified myself. If I can keep my loathing of the dichotomies under control long enough.
Thank you Stephen. And for what its worth, i believe you're in a position to be qualified as one of the " Informative members " =)
 

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@Kayness -

I agree so much with this. Even as someone who uses "iNtuition", I do kind of roll my eyes at the anti-sensor baloney that exists so often on and in these forums. Or, heck, even on the internet. I've been trying to come up with some sort of working hypothesis on how how the different functions affect learning additional languages as an adult. People may have seen my polls around the various Kiersey forums. Unfortunately, I typo'd extensively in them because I made them at like 3 AM or something like that.

What I'm learning is that this whole hypothesis I'm trying to formulate is actually really frigging complex ... and hey, guess what folks, even if you ARE an iNtuitive type, you will be using your sensing function to some degree while interacting with the rest of the world -- whether it's learning a langauge or doing something else. I think we need to drive that home with the newer folks.

And, as a note, most of the people I interact with IRL are sensors ... and I have no issue with them (ISFP mother, ISTJ sister, ISTP best friend). There is absolutely nothing wrong with sensors and absolutely nothing wrong with being around sensors. My ISTP bestie and I actually complemented each other fairly well learning math, chemistry and physics our freshman year of college ... what I couldn't figure out, she could and what she couldn't figure out, I could. And between the two of us, if we couldn't figure it out ... just about no one else in our courses could figure it out either!

People need to learn that a) it (MBTI) is a categorical system and b) like most categorical systems, it isn't the end-all, be-all of the world. Furthermore, our understanding will continue to evolve ... either at the basic level of learning about the functions, or on the grander scale of the system evolving (preferably past Kiersey temperaments).
 

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Mods, feel free to move this thread if you don't think it's appropriate for this subforum.

I've noticed there's a trend here of people coming to this forum not being sure of their types, BUT they're so adamant that they're an iNtuitive. Like, "I'm not sure whether I'm an INFJ, ENFP, INFP or INTP, but I'm DEFINITELY an N" and other stuff along that line. They're willing to consider being any type, except a Sensor. Nevermind that Ni and Ne are two very different cognitive functions. Or even worse, "I'm definitely an NT but I don't know which one"...euhm ENTJ/INTP or INTJ/ENTP are nothing alike o_o.

It wouldn't bother me as much if I see people say the same thing for other letters, like, "I'm not sure what my type is, but I'm definitely and unquestionably a Feeler/Extrovert/Perceiver/Judger" etc. but the thing is that this is far less frequent. I don't think I've ever seen that actually. uh.

Why do you think this happens? I mean, I can answer my own question but I'd like to see if there are anyone more optimistic than I am. :rolleyes:
Well, without reading through other replies (as I am busy, not cos I am uninterested!), then I think maybe two main reasons.

First and foremost their is possibly a techie/net-nerd bias against sensors. So maybe people pick up that and it sort of...

Wow. Just got distracted by @Aßbiscuits avatar. Holy moly. :laughing:
Sorry! Back on track now!

... erm, well I guess that that is one aspect -- the (generalised) tech-nerd feelings towards "jock" "sensors". Maybe somehow that is a factor? (And I gave a crap and shallow synopsis as I didn't have time! Apologies! And I don't think that sensors are all gym fanatics that drink too much, etc. Just saying that some stereotypes and generalisations might come into play in this.)

Oh, as an aside there must be some N/S uncertainty threads/posts? Surely? No?! Really?!!!

Two:

I think that maybe N/S is something many people find easy to assing to themselves. (Typo there, and I went back to correct "assing" to "assign", but it was a Freudian slip, so I'm going to let it slide! [Slip/slide? Get it?])

For example I would be more E (though still an "I" overall) if I didn't have anxiety issues, etc.
And I have ADHD and OCD, so my J/P mix is a little odd too.
And I think that most people have issue with F/T because there seems to be too much of a polarisation in how the two judging functions are treated in many places. I may be T, but I have a lot of F to give too.

(And to anyone who wants to tell me off for disrespecting cog functions, then I reckon that without anxiety etc., then I would be ENTP. So only a little different.)

Anyway, I think that maybe the N/S divide is possibly the one that is for one thing, maybe that which is least complicated by various factors such as mental health issues or societal pressures (e.g. the "idea" that... Men = "T". Women = "F" -- And no, I'm not suggesting that to be the case! But you know what I mean.).

So maybe most people also find it easier to determine their S/N alignment out of all the other things?

I don't know. This is just what occurred to me off the top of my head.
 

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I applaud this whole thread.


People really don't understand what being a Sensor is. I hate that ESFJ/ISFJ and ESFP/ISFP are given the worst rap in the universe. Chances are, half the people IRL that you love and adore are those types.
 
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