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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well we all know how the old trope goes....

No man is an island, everyone needs friends etc

And yet the further I get into life the more I think this is so false. I've lived most of my life without connections at all, helpful ones anyway. The only connections I had were family who were a bunch of toxic arseholes that didn't do anything except make my life unnecessarily difficult whenever they were around. None of my jobs or careers or the real opportunities in life came to me from any kind of connection. I always went out and got those myself through happenstance, luck and just being active and keeping my ear to the ground. I'm on my 3rd career now.

So from this perspective of having been an island for my entire adult life and actually not finding it particularly difficult or even very different to the whole, gotta have friends, philosophy I'm interested what others experiences in this regard are. Are we just swallowing a line that others have vested interest in us believing, that to be solo in life is dangerous and self defeating and an unsuccessful way to live?

Thoughts?
 

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No. We really do need connections. I don't think it's something I could help you see through a post, though. But I believe many 5s start off slow and may not come to truly appreciate other human beings until approaching middle-age (or past!).
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
No. We really do need connections. I don't think it's something I could help you see through a post, though. But I believe many 5s start off slow and may not come to truly appreciate other human beings until approaching middle-age (or past!).
Well can you elaborate in what you personally find in connections and why they are important?
 

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Oh, sure. I'm not confident of my ability to say anything helpful though; it's hard to describe such an abstract thing.

The most important things I get are a sense of warmth, support, of being loved and not being alone. How is this necessary? For sheer survival, it may not be. But for growth and for being able to claim our humanity, it is.

When I'm disconnected from myself and others, there's a sense of smallness, rigidity, harshness, stinginess. I see the world as harsh, something I need to constantly struggle and fight with in order to get what I need, and I'm harsh with myself -- I only allow myself to be certain things. Not weak, not vulnerable, not foolish. Soon I feel like I'm cramped into a very tight dark space.

To live as more fully human means to grow into a sense of spaciousness, flexibility, generosity. When I can be vulnerable around others and see them respond with love, that feels like connection. I feel I've grown, and like I have access to more parts of myself. Not as cramped. Then I have a sense that I'm spacious and calm inside, and the world is safe.
 

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I struggle with it, I am so comfortable when I am alone, yet I believe we are all connected and are purpose on earth is to be connected and love and help one another, I want to do this, I want to help, I want to contribute, but then I want to be left alone. I will give you the shirt off my back, just don't ever call me or stop over.
 

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Well we all know how the old trope goes....

No man is an island, everyone needs friends etc

And yet the further I get into life the more I think this is so false. I've lived most of my life without connections at all, helpful ones anyway. The only connections I had were family who were a bunch of toxic arseholes that didn't do anything except make my life unnecessarily difficult whenever they were around. None of my jobs or careers or the real opportunities in life came to me from any kind of connection. I always went out and got those myself through happenstance, luck and just being active and keeping my ear to the ground. I'm on my 3rd career now.

So from this perspective of having been an island for my entire adult life and actually not finding it particularly difficult or even very different to the whole, gotta have friends, philosophy I'm interested what others experiences in this regard are. Are we just swallowing a line that others have vested interest in us believing, that to be solo in life is dangerous and self defeating and an unsuccessful way to live?

Thoughts?
There is a great danger in doing this because without any connections at all, we tend to retreat into our own heads. It is possible to become too detached and disassociate completely from reality. The possibility of developing Schizotypal Personality Disorder.

Perhaps you are an exception to the rule, however, I believe that, for the most of us, we cannot find actualization, transcendence, and ultimately, enlightenment, alone. We need to make connections. It is part of being human.
 

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Well we all know how the old trope goes....

No man is an island, everyone needs friends etc

And yet the further I get into life the more I think this is so false. I've lived most of my life without connections at all, helpful ones anyway. The only connections I had were family who were a bunch of toxic arseholes that didn't do anything except make my life unnecessarily difficult whenever they were around. None of my jobs or careers or the real opportunities in life came to me from any kind of connection. I always went out and got those myself through happenstance, luck and just being active and keeping my ear to the ground. I'm on my 3rd career now.

So from this perspective of having been an island for my entire adult life and actually not finding it particularly difficult or even very different to the whole, gotta have friends, philosophy I'm interested what others experiences in this regard are. Are we just swallowing a line that others have vested interest in us believing, that to be solo in life is dangerous and self defeating and an unsuccessful way to live?

Thoughts?

Ahhh yes... That old phrase which has always been stuck on my mind. Which is the exact phrase in leading to my discovery of being a 5. I have illustrated this phrase t a lot of people in my life. Plus Knowledge is Power. 5w4 to be exact. I think it is easy to fall into our fixation of habit, to fall into this deep existential melancholia when you have felt that you have been misunderstood for so long. It does not help even the most intimate ones that we would refer to as "family members" the ones that we ought to find security in belonging, the intimacy that we crave, will go as far as to turn a blind eye on a blood relative. The lost of connection is not even as simple as rationalising it, thinking that the bonds which have been constructed out of our control have relatively any bearing on a mutual exchange of human intimacy and their relational value.

As 5s, our defense mechanism is Isolation, or what more thoroughly to be understood as Isolation of a represented reality. We seclude ourselves from an objective reality and we fall into a subjective way of thinking that we are of lesser value in comparison to life itself. We fall into a habit of thinking that we are helpless and powerless beyond repair, even in the pursuit of some of the most simplistic desires such as human contact and the real exchange of human intimacy. I used to fall obsessively into this subjective way of thinking, I found myself, in an emerging position of overcompensation of the ego trying with the utmost capacity to staunchly defend this illusion that I was a lot more wiser, a lot more thorough in analysis and observation that I destroyed any chance of a realistic bearing in trying to forge a real human connection. My nihilism was of nothing special, which I believed what we subjectively interpret as objective reality are mere illusions. Our mind itself is a mere empty vessel, filled with other people's thoughts, our feelings, our desires are mainly derived from which thoughts are conjured on a day to day basis. There we find that not only the self does not exist, in a subjective reality, everything else are mere illusions projected by our makings.

Thus, now I have come to the perspective that our real self does exist. And that as we have learned that the self is a self-changing entity, it merely exists to discover that discoveries of a soon to emerge reality does exist according to the direction of our makings, not of happenstance. Moreover, coming from a childhood indoctrinated religious stance, I was brought up to be more F or NF like. I self-typed as an INFP during my previous years of isolation. Whether or not it has directly influenced my perception on subjectively viewing life itself on the existential and metaphysical realm. I do not know. But I have myself, engrained the philosophy of Man existing not purely out of his own instinctive drives, and Man himself must not become too mechanical nor He finds reasons to object a seemingly objective reality of the metaphysical. He lives breezing through life to adapt, as if the wind itself takes him to unimaginable places that he had never thought of. With that philosophy of mine, do I still fall into the brink of this existential pitfall one asks? Surely it has always been a problem for me. And no matter how much I have believed in something, the same existential matter still lingers. Although, it has been eased by the sense of existing as a human being which truly exists and it fulfills my core fears of being useless,incapable, helpless, incompetent. Thus, I have also come to the conclusion that this egalitarian approach to the inherent beliefs of an objective reality is attributed to the Introverted Thinking dominant approach towards a Utopian ideal. It merely exists to find what it does not believe in, then it does to find the level of certainty needs to be met in order to function as a true believer of things.

The question that you asked more specifically, I would venture as so far to think that rejecting the world of people, is becoming disillusioned by reality itself and I would rather risk myself of any social or human attachments if it requires be, and reach premature Buddha-hood (it was a previous philosophy of mine when I told my mum that I wanted to live in the woods alone, by myself). Some crazy unconventonal Ne shit.
 

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I'm not sure as to what you mean by connections, so I'll answer to both.

Do I need the connection of friends?

I've never had many friends. I currently have three. Acquaintances are something I seem to rack up, though. I know people but friends are a different matter. Interpersonal interaction has never been a great factor in my life. I spend most of my time in solitary activities and I don't really get out much. It's nice to have someone to go to dinner with or out to see something on occasion but, for me, it's by no means a necessity. I don't have a longing for human interaction and I don't miss people so that may factor in.

Do I need the connection of business as in favoritism?

I wouldn't say I do and it's only been shown to me once that I do know of. As an engineer, I'm known as someone who can produce results, so I would think that my skills and reputation set me above others. It's also not my main source of income, so it doesn't strike me as being that important. As for my trading, it has nothing to do with favoritism. The markets don't bend at my command or give me good trades because they like me. I'm either competent or not. There are really no external human factors that have much influence on how I engage in that enterprise.
 

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Everything that is known was learned by other people- other human beings, just like you, just like me. It's because they shared what they learned and what they knew that we have arrived at this point in our collective education. Without connections, how is that possible? I suppose you could live your entire life benefiting from the knowledge of others at a distance, but not interact directly with them, and leave behind what you discover for someone else to eventually discover, or write up a will, or sell it, or give it away, but that requires an interaction, a connection of some kind, while you are alive and breathing.

Do you really want to not be a part of human existence, an active participant? Not your individual existence- human existence. It's a collective. Your one perspective is one of countless many, countless because the current population is an estimate, and it doesn't include everyone who has ever been born and died, the numbers added up definitively across the centuries since our species is believed to have been incarnated or forged itself separately from other ancestral lines of DNA. A lot of people have lived, and contributed something to what we have become. How do you divorce yourself from this? You are elementally a part of human history, whether you procreate or not. You are connected, whether you want to be or not. Your DNA still resides in your mother's body, potentially even within areas of her brain- even if she's passed away, at one point you were still a part of her. Even if her DNA degrades, you are the evidence that she existed.

What you say and do adds to the wealth of human awareness and culture that is ongoing. What you contribute to whatever job you perform affects other people to some degree of cause and effect. Even without your conscious awareness of connections, you are a part of the fabric of life. Even apathetic or emotionless actions done on your part have the potential to incite emotions in others, reactions you haven't conceived, impact you couldn't predict.

Whether you find it of use to you or not, you are connected inextricably to the rest of humanity. People have memories and impressions of you which are mostly out of your control, which could at any point influence them.


In my personal opinion, being alone isn't very fulfilling, ultimately. I'd rather not revert to the schizoid presence of mind that pervaded my childhood. I'd like to be fully human, socially human, and take chances on people who could surprise me. I want to create opportunities for people to shock me and to enlighten me, moments when they prove I'm a part of them and they are a part of me. I don't want to isolate myself perpetually, I don't want to feel alienated from the treasure trove of human contact. I could live alone, sure. But I can promise you that I would be listening to the voices of others singing their songs, I would be watching the movies of actors and dreamers who couldn't keep their vision to themselves. I would be reading the words of lovers and philosophers.

I wouldn't truly be alone, because I would still be resorting to indirect connections with other human beings- but I would be lonely. Conversations had with only myself are lacking in range and possibility, they are lacking in breadth. As others have shared with me, I want to share with them. I want them to know that they're not alone, and they certainly don't ever have to be, and if they choose to be then I want them to know that they always have the choice and can change their mind at any time. You could be completely self-sufficient, somehow, but I think humanity would be missing out if they were never given the chance to know you, understand you, accept you and embrace you.

You may very well be just what someone else is needing during a particular point in life, but they won't know it until they meet you in some medium. Sure, there's no proof of any reason for why we are here- we. However, we are indeed all here, for however long we each have. We're not obligated to get to know each other, but it certainly can be a worthwhile endeavor. If the people around me were to vanish until it were just me, solitary on this planet, I'd miss them. I'd even miss the strangers I haven't met. People can be so much more interesting to me than I am to myself. There's only so much that I can learn about myself. There are so many things that I can learn from others, so long as they are alive to give me that opportunity. Without them, my potential would dwindle.

Whether or not I consider myself to be connected to anyone else, I do benefit from their connections and their connected-ness. Biologically, everyone is a member of the same extended family.

Psychologically and philosophically (and under the influence of various hormones), you choose who to be close to and who to distance yourself from and why. Justify it however you wish. I simply don't recommend that you ever convince yourself that you are at any time truly separate or apart, because that's an illusion created by the ego to serve its unconscious motivations.
 

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Well we all know how the old trope goes....

No man is an island, everyone needs friends etc

Are we just swallowing a line that others have vested interest in us believing, that to be solo in life is dangerous and self defeating and an unsuccessful way to live?

I'm going to be the naysayer here.

Yes, I think our various world empires have a vested interest in keeping their cogs running, and that means keeping the worker bees hooked in to operate them. There's no doubt in my mind that there's a social agenda behind the truisms you mentioned. But, also, I think the majority of the world's population is comprised of sociable people who want to be connected. The majority shapes cultural values, and so connection is valued.

I know people will say everyone needs relationships with other human beings for growth or, more dramatically, an antidote to mental breakdown. And that may be true in many or even most cases. However, I think there's a minority that would be completely fine with little or no human contact. Think of the prototypical hermit or mountain man. There are people who can and do live that way and are very content. Perhaps they haven't grown in their social skills, but they've certainly grown in their survival skills. And, at the end of the day, it's up to you to decide in what ways you want to grow, or if you even want to grow at all. If you just want to kick back and be happy and that means doing so in total solitude, then who is anyone else to tell you that you shouldn't? I say do what brings you contentment and what is consistent with your understanding of a life well lived.
 

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i have had people who I thought were friends who actually in the end turned out to be aquantences and aquantences who turned out to be real friends currently I only have 3 people who I can actually claim I am close to and that's the way I prefer it, though I have been known to isolate myself and can go months with out seeing my friends... So it really can be either way I think that we do need connections though because even I have found a support system can be helpful (even though I do not like to admit it at times)
 

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I have a hard time with connections because my expectations are very high. I want my connections to be kinda magical I guess... so I have my boyfriend (love makes it magical) and my family (I know them since I was born, so it feels magical).
Whenever I feel overwhelmed by people I just want to lose every connection with every human being and I wish I could be all alone. I wish I could just be by myself without actually needing anyone. Sad truth is that I start feeling horrible without connecting to anyone for too long. Sometimes I even need friends and acquaintances... it bothers me a lot, haha.
But I believe there are people who barely need any connection or none at all. I admire them very much.

Some people need a few connections, some need many, some need a ton, some need none... it depends on the individual.
 

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Well it is a different day and age nowadays.
You can manage quite fine without friends, friends being a sort of ally or companion that sticks around.
Yet the benefits are also quite obvious.
The people saying that you need friends are quite probably so attached to the benefits that they need it.

In a way you can compare it to having your car.
You will say you need your car, but it is only because you have come to depend on your car.
People who say you need friends have come to depend on friends.

I would twist it a bit and ask.
Are you really so poor that you can't afford to get a friend?
Is it too much a hassle to "go shopping" for someone to spend some quality time with?
Cause that is what befriending others is all about.
You spend time together cause you are able to create more meaning from communicating as "allies" than not.
Cause when you are friends you sort of have the same cause so to speak.
You are on the same path in a sense and share the perils on that path,
making the path easier to bear.
Of course not doing the trek alone isn't obligatory or even necessary,
it is all up to your own judgement.
Same as buying a car, you get it cause you think your life will be better from it.
You might be right or wrong.
Same with friends, you get them cause you think they will improve your life.
They might not, some may even destroy it, just as a bad car with faulty brakes might destroy it.
That a risk you have to take, everything in life is goverend by a sort of risk/reward equation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Are you really so poor that you can't afford to get a friend?
Is it too much a hassle to "go shopping" for someone to spend some quality time with?
Cause that is what befriending others is all about.
You spend time together cause you are able to create more meaning from communicating as "allies" than not.
Cause when you are friends you sort of have the same cause so to speak.
You are on the same path in a sense and share the perils on that path,
making the path easier to bear.
Of course I can afford a friend, but whether or not I want to spend the resources to have one is more the question for me and that really plays into the rest of your questions. Finding someone on the same path who can be my ally has in the past proven to be tedious and not worth the effort so I tend to relax on the search because it has been frustrating in the past. I can find people with similar interests easily enough, but finding someone that I feel has a similar loyalty, values and all the rest has proven very difficult.
 

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I used to think this until I started to see the power people had because they had the right connections. With numbers often comes power.
 

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I like to maintain a few consistent and strong bonds at the very least ^_^
Other wise shit gets weird.
 

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I think it is true that no man is an island, but the way that is applied to interpersonal relationships is kind of outdated I think.

In the world we live in now especially, we have access to so many voices. A film, or piece of art, or written work is only a click away. Most of human history did not have this option. I often don't feel like I need people per say, many are a drain on me sometimes, but some can make me feel alive too. But I constantly need to connect to ideas and expressions of others outside of myself. I need that connection to the larger world in a sense, or that connection to the human experience in having another share a piece of theirs with me. I just find that if there isn't another person around . . . well I can feel connected in watching a moving film, or connected in reading a book, or connected in going into an online board where people are just as crazy as me lol. And depending on the options of the interpersonal opportunities that I have at a given moment in time, sometimes I prefer connecting with people in the mind than in person. Some people are just not that thrilling to me, I don't feel connections, I don't feel stimulated, I find that they can't join with me in my level of excitement sometimes and can bring me down. When I could be obsessing and thrilled and getting intense feel goods by reading a book and going into my own head and getting thrilled with ideas at this moment than being with them. I kind of exist on this energy field that is a little more live wire I can say than most people like to exist on, and if someone can't join me there (or tolerate it to an extent lol) and needs me to come down to theirs to be with them I would often rather be on merry way and stay on my frequency if that makes sense.

That said - I love feeling connected to others. But there are lengths as to where that connection can end sometimes, it can be something that is not relatively long lasting and that is OK, I highly enjoy it but I don't need it in a way. I can have this intense experience meeting someone new and having intense deep conversations and if I never see them again that's OK, I was given something I highly enjoyed in our experience. But that sort of thing doesn't happen with everyone I meet all of the time, nor are these connections always sustained over the long haul, and I find myself being fine with diverting myself into into other things that thrill me that can be found outside of a physical person in front of me.

So yeah in a world without unlimited access to information, a world where there are not new voices to constantly explore and new things to learn that stimulate new things to think about that can be found outside of personal interactions - hell yeah I would probably need the company of people a lot. And I think there are natural hermits of sorts that can find connection in nature of sorts and to the divine that can make the connections of other people not that necessary if that is where they find their thrills.

But I think we all need in some way to feel connected to something. Though that may not be needed with via people for a select few, and can be depending on circumstances of the people available for others at times. And some of us may find other substitutes are rather satisfying to actual people sometimes. I don't want this to come off like I have no connections that I thrive on with people, I do, my family for one. And I have a small group of very close friends that I value. But I am weird because I really don't NEED them all of the time, I can be fine to go for months without speaking to someone and it doesn't make me feel not close to them, once a connection is there for me it always is there with certain people. But in the end if I lost them, well I think I could adapt even if they couldn't be replaced because I can get so caught up in my own head with obsessions over ideas and what not that I can be kind of oblivious to the fact that I may not have had personal contact with someone for awhile at times lol. But I only think that is possible for someone like me in this day and age due to the fact that we are in the information age. I do need people's minds, just not in front of me always. And I think we can often view being "islands" as to personal interactions which for some people depending on the people in their lives available for that given point in time may not really need them (there may not be satisfying connections to even be had), but they often like myself are finding them in some other means. I have seen people that are voracious readers for example that feel like islands in not needing the company of people really, but they ARE in the company of another person mentally in reading their words. I think there are very few true islands, but nowadays people that find satisfying substitutes to the general company of others well I totally get that depending on the circumstances, but they often aren't "islands" in the real sense of the term.
 

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I used to think this until I started to see the power people had because they had the right connections. With numbers often comes power.
This is the same way for me. I always try to make an effort to be nice to people. Although it's pretty much an acquaintance type thing I've seen those people move on to new places. If they understand I'm competent then everywhere they go is a potential place I can go. That's how I got the job I'm in now.

That's not why I'm nice to people but it's a nice benefit, I have a good amount of people I can message and say hey can you talk to your boss about hiring me. Probably not 100% necessary but it's nice having that security in the back of my mind.
 
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