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Hi all, first real post besides introduction here. Anyway, as you can see, I am an ENTP. I had a question, though. I am really wondering about ENTPs and manipulation. I find myself, not with everyone, but with specific types of people, manipulating them without even trying. If I figure out that someone is just a nasty or toxic person, but I need to slowly get rid of them, or learn something from them, or if the external climate isn't right for conflict, I manipulate them to my will instead. Not in a bad way, necessarily, but, it is manipulation, nonetheless.

Is this a common ENTP characteristic? Sorry if this has been done before, but I am new to the deeper world of personality typing.
 

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Considering I've been able to buy alcohol and get into bars since I was 16 (I live in the US so 21 drinking age) without a fake ID, I'd say yes. I could make up the craziest BS reasons for not having and ID or find ways to sneak in. It was pretty crazy. Now that I'm 24, the game has been over a while.
 

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Considering I've been able to buy alcohol and get into bars since I was 16 (I live in the US so 21 drinking age) without a fake ID, I'd say yes. I could make up the craziest BS reasons for not having and ID or find ways to sneak in. It was pretty crazy. Now that I'm 24, the game has been over a while.
I totally get you there! The weird thing for me is this, though: I have an amazing relationship with the truth that I cannot explain. I can't stand lying in my personal life, though I can and will do it for safety's sake. That includes mental/emotional safety as well. Hence the aforementioned manipulation of nasty/toxic people.

Thanks for the response- glad to know I am not alone here!
 

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I've always had a reasonable knack for getting what I want from people - including, but not limited to, sex, liquor, car rides, free tutoring and money. When I am pursuing some greater purpose, using people in this way just doesn't bother me in the least. Afterwards I feel pretty bad - worse when I am told by others that the person felt used and I didn't realise.

It's a function of being 'naturally charming', articulate and flippant. It makes you naturally good at it. Lying is easy. You have less respect for norms or expectations (such as NOT to use people), and in a way it all feels like a hilarious game which you are constantly winning.

Welcome to the wonderful world of ENTPs.
 

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Yes. I play the innocent card, most of the time.

Being able to read a person's motivations, and in general, their psychology on a first glance comes in handy.

Here's a tip: If you want people to do things without offending them, don't let them assume responsibility for it.

People hate assuming responsibility for their actions. So, if you assume responsibility instead, or find someone else to, while still nudging them to do the same (Consciously, internally, they realize they really are the issue, but are not offended and driven to actually do something about it), you get it done efficiently without the fuss.
 

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I totally get you there! The weird thing for me is this, though: I have an amazing relationship with the truth that I cannot explain. I can't stand lying in my personal life, though I can and will do it for safety's sake. That includes mental/emotional safety as well. Hence the aforementioned manipulation of nasty/toxic people.
When it comes to coming up with solutions for things, I want the truth. There's no point in beating around the bush. I run into a lot of this crap at work. In regards to the safety thing, I think it's more of our BSing a way out of a situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
When it comes to coming up with solutions for things, I want the truth. There's no point in beating around the bush. I run into a lot of this crap at work. In regards to the safety thing, I think it's more of our BSing a way out of a situation.
Yeah, we do tend to be great at BSing our ways out of a situation, or 'natural charm,' etc. The weird thing about me in this format is that lying is not easy for me. I hate to do it. Granted, it magically gets a whole lot easier when my safety is concerned, but when it is a close friend/someone in my personal life that I deeply care for....that goes out the window. It also goes out the window almost any other time. It's like that instinct kicks in when necessary, then I am back to my usual honest to a fault self.
 

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I tell people all the time that the best way to get what you want in a situation is to be the person defining it (what is going on). I find that most people will readily follow if someone is willing to say "I think x,y and z is going on...thus they are lead where you want them to go.

Also, when framing the situation it is important to make sure that no matter what the probable outcomes (as many as you can figure out given the time frame of the situation) their reaction/action is a benefit.

I find that I don't really like to consider myself a manipulator but that is probably because it has such a negative connotation. As it goes, you are either a freedom fighter or a guerilla. In the same context, being labeled a astute problem solver or a manipulator depends on results.
 

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I usually get what i want out of a situation. Not so much manipulation as sheer presence i think, tho.
This. I am 8/7 and they do what I want but they hate me.
i prefer they hate me to me being dishonest
 

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Having everyone like me, or consider me a friend, so when the time is right, I can mine them for some resource down the road?
 

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Nope. Being extremely argumentative doesn't tend to put me on the sweet side of most people.
I think the biggest thing is knowing when to argue and when to keep your mouth shut. I know I am very opinionated and argumentative. I remember one of my friends mentioning about asking someone to hang out and when they said I was coming that person was like, "Well that guy is always arguing about something." My friend said he replied, "That's the reason we love him." lol The one group of people you don't argue with are cops. They'll cuff you and then you're screwed.
 

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l don't really get it when people say ''without even trying'', l hear that from NF's a lot actually. To me it sounds like a way to reject the responsibility of manipulating people or a lack of self-awareness.

Then again, many ENTPs here talk about manipulating people extensively, it's not something l immediately associate with the type. lf l do manipulate, l know exactly what l'm doing. Generally l don't regard people that way...not enough patience.

lf l find you to be a manipulator (universal you), l will lie to you and never feel bad about it. l don't see the need for honesty here, so then we're both guilty but l wouldn't really invest in the friendship anyway.
 
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I think the biggest thing is knowing when to argue and when to keep your mouth shut. I know I am very opinionated and argumentative. I remember one of my friends mentioning about asking someone to hang out and when they said I was coming that person was like, "Well that guy is always arguing about something." My friend said he replied, "That's the reason we love him." lol The one group of people you don't argue with are cops. They'll cuff you and then you're screwed.
Heh. People describe me as that guy who will argue about anything. Unfortunately, they also tend to say that I'll fill any argument with BS just for the sake of argument. I actually try to back my points. :(
 

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Heh. People describe me as that guy who will argue about anything. Unfortunately, they also tend to say that I'll fill any argument with BS just for the sake of argument. I actually try to back my points. :(
Yeah and that pisses me off because most of the time it's inaccurate information they just make up. One thing I hate more is inaccuracy and inconsistency in arguments.
 

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Nope. Being extremely argumentative doesn't tend to put me on the sweet side of most people.
I am extremely argumentative as well. However, when it is something that *hits a nerve,* if you will, like rape, abortion, LGBTQ rights....I lose it. I can't keep my cool.
 

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Hi all, first real post besides introduction here. Anyway, as you can see, I am an ENTP. I had a question, though. I am really wondering about ENTPs and manipulation. I find myself, not with everyone, but with specific types of people, manipulating them without even trying. If I figure out that someone is just a nasty or toxic person, but I need to slowly get rid of them, or learn something from them, or if the external climate isn't right for conflict, I manipulate them to my will instead. Not in a bad way, necessarily, but, it is manipulation, nonetheless.

Is this a common ENTP characteristic? Sorry if this has been done before, but I am new to the deeper world of personality typing.
Hmmm, I'm quite good at this when it comes to the police. Of the 6 times I ever got pulled over for speeding I only ever got charged with a ticket once. The first time I got pulled over on my 19th birthday, and instead of giving me a ticket, the cute 20 something officer asked me for a date haha I really think charm and an innocent nature have a role to play in these fortuitous events. :) But sometimes, it can be brazen manipulation.
 

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I used to like manipulating people, but I have an abnormally strong Fe for an ENTP of my age. It's almost painful when I hurt someone, so I try to limit my manipulation. On the other hand though, if some one is acting maliciously against me . . . I've manipulated groups who've hated me into hating each other (and they each went to me for help and advice, thinking that I was on their side! What they didn't realize is that I was the one who manipulated them into disagreements and arguments in the first place). I've also manipulated a few stubborn people for their own good. Usually in the end, they have some kind of Eureka moment and they think they came upon it by themselves; I just sit at them laughing because they never realized that I pretty much tricked them into doing whatever they did.

I'm also decent at negotiating, and pretty good at pretending to be something that I'm not (which I have used to manipulate individuals a few times). I would never maliciously manipulate anyone without justified reason though (although I'm the kind of person who can find a way to turn anything into "a justified reason").

Manipulating rules, on the other hand, is probably one of my favorite things to do, and I use that to my advantage often (to the point where I have gotten on the nerves of even ESTJs, by twisting the meanings of rules slightly or using two contradicting rules to either get revenge or cause mass chaos).
 
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