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From what I'm aware of, it's ISFJs who are stereotyped as "nice guys". But I think stereotypes are wrong and stupid.
I personally never identified with that persona. Nor with the INFP SJW.
I think I'm nice, for the most part anyway, and yes, I expect niceness in response, but I was never nice to any person for the sake of getting into their pants or really- getting anything other than what I consider to be a pleasant communication. It's good to be nice, but when you force niceness, a lot of bad things happen.
 

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Any problems INFPs have with women are to do with not being assertive enough, it's nothing to do with being nice.
I'd argue assertiveness has some correlation with being the opposite of nice. Often people who are "assertive" as well as "bold" or "brash", are also not very nice people, IMO; They cause others discomfort.
Of course this isn't a rule nor is "assertive" being the opposite of "nice".
 

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Nothing wrong in showing your emotional side, if it's genuine. Not showing it is worse. Anyone who doesn't like you being "sweeter"/"more sensitive"/"more emotional" than her is not meant for you-look elsewhere (even though I still feel those ideas are inappropriate, it isn't likely you are going to change their minds, so let them have their supposedly "manly" guys.)

On a side note, society paints a false dichotomy between emotions and logic. You can be extremely emotional without lacking rational thought. It's really regrettable that the term "emotional" is often used as a pejorative ("you are being emotional!") when it's not, or it doesn't necessarily has to be.
 

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I know I am.


With "Nice Guys" I mean:
- those that finish last with women and/or
- whine about their lack of success with women
Uhu...

It's not like I'm trying anyway.

It could also be that I haven't really understood what a "nice guy" is. But IMO it's what I described above:
- sensitive/gets hurt easily/takes himself (resp. his emotion) too seriously
- is doing favours for others help others and expecting something in return
- is "door slamming" when things don't go his way; ... in a sense that is the feeling of entitlement.
Stop succesfully stereotyping me. That is a rarity [me fitting in a stereotype].
 

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Not necessarily. There's a certain subset of INFP that certainly lends itself to 'Nice Guy'-ism, but that's hardly all or even most INFPs.

In my opinion there are two types of INFPs. Firstly you have the softer, more idealistic type - and then you have the more intense, self-centred type. (I'm intending 'self-centred' as a neutral term here, not negative - can't think of a better term). The soft, idealistic type is much more likely to be the Nice Guy: he puts the woman on a pedestal and himself below her. The intense, self-centred type won't do that. The 'intense' INFP will be going for what they want while the 'soft' INFP is still tapping on the window with a sponge.

Nice Guys turn up all over the MBTI, including plenty among Thinkers. But I would guess that it might be more common among Fe users, just because it's about the idea of an unwritten social contract.
 

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With "Nice Guys" I mean:
- those that finish last with women and/or
- whine about their lack of success with women
No. Just lot(s) of social anxiety [common among Introverted meatsacs] + feeling(s) [common among the NF breed].

Very common among these specimen(s).

[HR][/HR]

They are generally high-functioning 'misunderstood(s)' (via) the male-species. There, there darling INFP. I was considered a male for quite some time until I sprouted breast(s).

 

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I think I and F guys are more prone to "nice guy syndrome".

E and T guys are more prone to being standard assholes.

Though of course there are exceptions.
 

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No. They were in police, Zomo, military, the Party, etc.
They abuse dissidents, get drunk together and abuse their families, enforce conformity (note that ENTJs are extremely conformist with their suits and other degeneracy), etc.

Individualist doesn't necessarily mean social Darwinist. In a way, social Darwinist Capitalism is extremely collectivist - based on extreme conformity ("professionalism"), forced socialisation ("networking"), etc.


I don't know who "Nas" is supposed to be, but G.R.R. Martin is an ENFP.
What would be the other systems or combinations for INFPs in your opinion? Like I think it's not just ENTJs but ESTJs, I've personally seen one and they seemed like your typical 'douchebag'. Picking on you or loving to put down those who deviate. Stubbornness tends to be the best weapon.

This society we have hates INFPs, especially INFP males both economically and socially. If it is true society rewards people for being violent, aggressive or dominant than even the more reason to allow the weaker people to buy guns for self defence. Infact they have an 80% chance of being potential rapists, posing a danger to even other males sometimes. These people and the fact society rewards their behaviour by seeing it as cool is why guns or mace were invented in the first place.

Finding pleasure in putting down or hurting others is the very definition of evil. I bought the loudest whistle design in the world that can be literally ear-piercing to an entire neighbourhood incase I get attacked by a douchebag trying to prove his 'status/superiority'. Consider importing one of those Storm Whistles or get it from a shop in your country that sells them.

No. Just lot(s) of social anxiety [common among Introverted meatsacs] + feeling(s) [common among the NF breed].

Very common among these specimen(s).

[HR][/HR]

They are generally high-functioning 'misunderstood(s)' (via) the male-species. There, there darling INFP. I was considered a male for quite some time until I sprouted breast(s).

No, not just that, INFPs are oppressed due to posing an enormous threat to those at the top. It's deliberately designed to kill off through either an economic system rigged to try to root out INFP nonconformists who can think for themselves, whether it's socially or economically and to elevate the ESTJ to the top. INFPs are not even the 'nice guys' but 'invisible guys', ENFPs are the 'nice guys'. Many INFPs are also part of the lower class, if INFPs were so well respected by people in general, and could with ease mobilized from behind the scenes the downtrodden. The conformists are scared of INFPs.
 

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From what I'm aware of, it's ISFJs who are stereotyped as "nice guys". But I think stereotypes are wrong and stupid.
I personally never identified with that persona. Nor with the INFP SJW.
I think I'm nice, for the most part anyway, and yes, I expect niceness in response, but I was never nice to any person for the sake of getting into their pants or really- getting anything other than what I consider to be a pleasant communication. It's good to be nice, but when you force niceness, a lot of bad things happen.
INFPs are moreso the 'invisible guys' than the 'nice guys' in actuality. Along with our INFJ and INTJ counterparts yeah. I'm 'nice' but not because I expect anything in return, but in the name of my values and of how I want the world to be. I don't/never followed 'chivalry' consciously or unconsciously. What concerns me though is if society is rewarding the behaviours of being violent, aggressive, dominant, being an asshole or not. If it actually is then I would question the kind of society we live in moreso.

I dealt with 'assholes' in school who attacked me for being nonconformist. And my stubbornness made me essentially immune to breakdown as I put more and more on. I kept persisting knowing I was morally superior to them. Stubbornness is like heavy plate armour, it can weigh you down heaps sure but it sure does offer alot of protection. I even called in the police once as soon as I got punched, almost managed to press charges on the guy doing it. He got a warning for assault due to first time offence but was suspended haha.
 

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If what they say about capability to hurt others/bring others down makes you 'cool'/elevates your status in society is true then it shows the kind of society we live in. So in the bottom paragraph is this where the horrible guys are coming from? These types of women and this type of society create aggressive guys who want to smash your skull, plus turned many sensitive/emotional guys into Hitlers or Pol Pots. And they keep making them. I've personally always sympathised with collectivism but here is another issue I can apply it to, I believe an individualist society has an economic plus social environment that is rigged against INFPs.

I pay attention to this because now I can see where all the 'assholes' or hypermasculine jerks that want to hurt people or prevent our goal of a society based on cooperation are coming from. What do you think is the solution to achieve a society without jerks? Will we have to design a system where ruthless passive-aggressive males will oversee it or collectivism where collective guys rule? I personally see collectivism as an approach to the issues addressed by both MGTOW and Feminism.

Under collectivist states what is strange was that none of this emotionless independent hypermasculine stuff existed. And society was made up of collective and interdependent males, plus in the government. Another thing is INFPs are practically treated like royalty by the government even in the worst examples of collectivist states and encouraged to write literature/scripts/songs etc? The government or society acts like an ISFJ in a collectivist state. Do collectivist states root out violent/aggressive hypermacho males and suit INFPs the best? As opposed to individualist ones who seem to have rigged both the economic and social environment against us?

The worst case scenario for an INFP in a collectivist society is that nobody will acknowledge the existence of your 'personal space' and close in on you. You will be trampled over if you try to stop them from closing in on you.
I find the definitions of "collectivist" and "individualist" to at times be very vague though, almost intentionally and as well, the very ideas or concepts they are meant to imply seem to be very different depending on the purpose they are intended to be used for.

I guess they're philosophical concepts originally, but often instead they are kind of removed from that all together and taken to instead symbolize different political leanings. I've noticed the definitions seem to vary a lot from what the users intention was or what school of thought they are coming or basing the usage on.

I almost feel like they've become so far removed from their original intention, that it's hard to apply them in an authentic or sincere way anymore. Like, what does that even mean? oh god, the whole "collectivist" "individualist" thing, please, just some more rhetoric.
 

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I find the definitions of "collectivist" and "individualist" to at times be very vague though, almost intentionally and as well, the very ideas or concepts they are meant to imply seem to be very different depending on the purpose they are intended to be used for.

I guess they're philosophical concepts originally, but often instead they are kind of removed from that all together and taken to instead symbolize different political leanings. I've noticed the definitions seem to vary a lot from what the users intention was or what school of thought they are coming or basing the usage on.

I almost feel like they've become so far removed from their original intention, that it's hard to apply them in an authentic or sincere way anymore. Like, what does that even mean? oh god, the whole "collectivist" "individualist" thing, please, just some more rhetoric.
Well I could simplify it down to societal structures where everybody including males are expected to be either interdependent or independent. In even the unhealthy examples of interdependent or 'collectivist' societies, maybe interdependent-collectivist. The 'hypermacho primary competitor' trope was nowhere to be found for males oddly. All of society seems would be males expected to be interdependent and drive confidence from ability to rely on each other/the group?

In the unhealthy examples INFP males were frequently invited to be trained in writing literature, songs, scripts and etc or political stuff? And all other guys were expected to be interdependent, even shunned when attempting to push away society to 'self-rely' and prove themselves 'superior'. But individualist world/societies were still scared the crap out of the very existence of their societies. The manosphere refers to those in their governments as backstabbing passive-aggressive gamma males'. They claimed Stalin was one.
 

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I feel like this is mostly social norms though, and that being a male INFP can be kind of difficult though, or at least not the most popular with people. It's become like this unspoken thing you're not supposed to talk about, but as creative and forward thinking individuals I don't think it's really all that appreciated in our society at all. It's more about following orders, and carry out rote tasks and memorization, repetition, the bottom line.

I think often Fi is pretty undervalued, and is taken for if anything, just "whining" since it does not adhere strictly to the status quo, and as well since idealism of any form is not appreciated or even tolerated.
 

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Well I could simplify it down to societal structures where everybody including males are expected to be either interdependent or independent. In even the unhealthy examples of interdependent or 'collectivist' societies, maybe interdependent-collectivist. The 'hypermacho primary competitor' trope was nowhere to be found for males oddly. All of society seems would be males expected to be interdependent and drive confidence from ability to rely on each other/the group?

In the unhealthy examples INFP males were frequently invited to be trained in writing literature, songs, scripts and etc or political stuff? And all other guys were expected to be interdependent, even shunned when attempting to push away society to 'self-rely' and prove themselves 'superior'. But individualist world/societies were still scared the crap out of the very existence of their societies. The manosphere would refer to those in their governments as 'gamma males'.
Yes but I think often at times it can be kind of or a bit of a disservice to simply try and fit the concepts into political stratospheres when it fails to en-capture what they originally were intended for.

Ugh, I can't remember right now exactly though how, I never wrote it down it's only my own opinion.


I guess I personally don't like the idea of collectivism because it can fall prey to the follies of group-think and too strong pressures of social conformity--which only stifles any original thought, and even probably critical thinking.

Individuality though is often taken out of context and applied strictly to the context of capitalism but only in the most selfish and self serving manner when really it means being more critical thinking and being concerned with the idea of individualism, and individuality. The problem is that you can be an individualist, and still strive to co-operate and contribute to a 'greater-good'
And also it's based on the untrue idea that capitalism is completely natural simply 'natural' and the way the world is, or just "reality" itself; which I think is obviously not true.



"Individualist" then I think is taken out of context and used instead to mean being some sort of rugged survavalist, living of the land and being a self serving capitalist or consumer.
 

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No. Just lot(s) of social anxiety [common among Introverted meatsacs] + feeling(s) [common among the NF breed].

Very common among these specimen(s).

[HR][/HR]

They are generally high-functioning 'misunderstood(s)' (via) the male-species. There, there darling INFP. I was considered a male for quite some time until I sprouted breast(s).

Well okay there.
 

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Oh yes, INFPs are nice guys... nice in the sense: "Oh yeah, he is a really nice guy, but we´re just friends."
Same goes for INFJ guys...lol

But in the end, it always depends on the person you spend your time with. Some will appreciate you the way you deserve, some will not.
 

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I dunno, my boyfriend is an INFP... @[email protected]

He is a sweet, intelligent, caring man! UuU I love him lots!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

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I think you have it mistaken a bit, as another poster said before. INFPs are rather the mysterious 'invisible guys' in the background sitting at a corner, as contrasted with the ISFJ ones who are often associated with 'nice guys' due to having what is perceived by people as more 'smothering'(nuturing) qualities which can have people associate them with trying to be 'chivalrous' to get x.
 
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