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Wow....



There is a difference between taking offense and giving offense, and it seems you are taking offense more than she is giving offense. Simply put, she doesn't want your help so don't try to force it down her throat. If she's disinterested, let it be and simply agree to disagree.
I'm pretty sure that their not buying fancy cars and stuff like that simply to flaunt it in your face. Their buying it because they like it- not because of you. You're probably not important enough for them to waste their money on. And if they are really flaunting in your face, just ignore it, because it just betrays lack of maturity, unless you did something in the pass to make them really dislike you.
I have nothing to say about the competition of "intelligence". It seems like just an immature rivalry about whose kids are smarter, imo. And talking about immaturity, who gives a fuck whose in a higher position or not? Even middle school kids know better than to associate with that cesspit.
And your "perceived" confidence of that women is just what everyone perceives of us. Don't worry, as you go down the road, you'll find that we become even bigger assholes.

And seriously? Short-Man syndrome? At height 5"10? (facepalm). That's average height. And that's a really dumb insult because it is neither scientifically nor empirically correct, and all stereotypical bullshit.

And what's wrong with computer games? They train spatial intelligence and hand-eye coordination, exercises the retinas, and relieves stress.

And her children are none of your business. If they're happy, you don't have to change their life for your own world-views.

I know, we INTPs are so bad. :happy:
 

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I am not trying to be condescending or a know it all, but we have worried about whether her kids are getting adequate mothering. She seems to be disinterested in social community (not just mine) and activities for her kids. I just wanted to help by inviting her to my mother's group, but she just refused. Her kids seem happy enough, but I think they just don't know what they are missing. She said her son had trouble in school last year because it wasn't challenging enough, but I doubt the kid is that smart. He likes video games way too much for his own good. For some reason it sounded like she was bragging so I made some comments that her husband and kids are on the short side (take her down a notch). She rarely has full meals planned so I told her how I make lists and prepare ingredients in advance for the week, but she again, refused to take any of this seriously. I think I just don't like this woman's confidence..I mean to be perfectly honest my family is really smart, tall, social and I even have a creative streak and this mom seems to think she has all that plus more. I can really help people if they let me teach them, but if they can't see my talents then they are the ones who miss out.

Also, there are other issues like I try and uphold Jewish traditions because my husband is Jewish, but she is half Jewish and shows no interest in her culture at all (another thing I can't respect). I baked a half loaf of challah bread and gave it to her, but she could barely muster a 'thank you'. That was also an excuse to show her how well I can bake bread (she looked totally disinterested when I tried to teach her how to make bread). When I tried to help her with bread baking she seemed surprised that I didn't know what the scientific definition of gluten is, but how is that even relevant to making good bread.

Her husband (INTJ) works at the same company as my husband and has a better position, but my husband (ENFJ) could be senior manager if he wanted to be and I made sure to tell her that. He tries to flaunt his job in our face by buying fancy cars and TVs, but we are above that kind of popular materialism. I personally think he just has short man syndrome (dude is only like 5'10").
Well, although you say you don't want to be condescending you are actually thinking in a very hierarchical, traditional and closed-minded manner. Which isn't necessarily wrong, but it does make you come across as being concescending. You say you direspect her for being not as social as you would like her to be, for not being a good enough mother (according to your standards!), for not sticking to traditions, and you think you can teach everybody something useful and interesting if they only were to give you the chance to teach them... and you don't think you are condescending!?! You are ultra-condescending!!! And honestly... you need to get rid of that attitude before you can resolve the situation with this INTP mother. That being said, you seem to be a good-willing person who is really interested and involved in her social environment and I don't doubt your intentions.

What you need to understand is that this is largely a problem of different values/principals: you are community-oriented while she wants to be independent; you value hierarchy while she values more egalitarian relationships; you value traditions and cultural roots while she is more culturally eclectic etc. You need to recognize and accept these differences and stop thinking in terms of better or worse lifestyles. Accept that you will probably never be each other's best friends and stop trying to change her because all your attempts to change her will be futile. Don't worry about other people's parenting styles unless they are abussive, you said yourself that her kids seem happy and that's all that matters to an outsider like yourself. Focus on your own family, that's your responsibility, other people's kids are NOT your responsibility! Stop thinking that her man buys expensive stuff just to annoy you, he's far more likely buying these things because he likes them or maybe because he likes to show off to everyone (but definitely not to you specifically). In short: stop being so competitive and enjoy your own life for a moment.
 

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^

What the above said.

Way better than mine.

EDIT: Oh, and the way you imply your family as superior because they are "tall" is extremely close-minded, ignorant, and heightist. Despite the fact that tall people earn more, this is just a prejudice that has only emerged in the modern era. In classical literature, or even back to the time of England and the knights of the round table, no positive attributes were applied to being tall. Furthermore, in India, Britain and Germany, height as a positive characteristic is almost non-existent. How you get these principles is beyond me.

And hell, who cares about what the Jews used to do? If she's half-Jew, she doesn't haven't to be Jew the old way. She could be Jew the new way. Heck, she could even start a new branch of Jew all by herself. Who's with me?

It would be awesome if the Jews developed a custom that made it compulsory to grow a long beard... even for the women. o_O
 

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I am not trying to be condescending or a know it all, but we have worried about whether her kids are getting adequate mothering. She seems to be disinterested in social community (not just mine) and activities for her kids.
Look, just because she isn't interested in your little group doesn't mean that she isn't a good mother or that her children aren't getting enough mothering.

I just wanted to help by inviting her to my mother's group, but she just refused. Her kids seem happy enough, but I think they just don't know what they are missing.
You sound very arrogant, as if your group is something that deserves this woman's attention. If she doesn't want to get involved, she doesn't want to get involved. Forcing her to get involved will only result in a strained relationship between the two of you, and as children pick up on these things, stress for her children and any other children involved.

She said her son had trouble in school last year because it wasn't challenging enough, but I doubt the kid is that smart. He likes video games way too much for his own good.
Because he likes video games, he must not be that smart? Again, more arrogance - how do you know this child isn't as smart as she says he is? She is his mother, so she knows that child far better than you could ever know him.

For some reason it sounded like she was bragging so I made some comments that her husband and kids are on the short side (take her down a notch).
Because that's the way you respond to bragging, isn't it? Stop with the petty retorts, because I bet you she sees you as some jealous person that she wouldn't want to be associated with in a million years.

She rarely has full meals planned so I told her how I make lists and prepare ingredients in advance for the week, but she again, refused to take any of this seriously.
It's not the 1950s anymore! She doesn't need to have full meals planned, she isn't a 1950s housewife whose highest ambition is to create a delicious meal! Are you so socially conditioned that you cannot understand this woman at all?

I think I just don't like this woman's confidence..I mean to be perfectly honest my family is really smart, tall, social and I even have a creative streak and this mom seems to think she has all that plus more.
That's not her fault, it's yours. If you had her confidence, you wouldn't be so jealous and insecure.

I can really help people if they let me teach them, but if they can't see my talents then they are the ones who miss out.
This arrogance of yours is just overwhelming. Do you really have such delusions of grandeur that you think you could ever be better than her? She sounds like a good mother and a good person, and you sound like insecure, jealous little child.

Also, there are other issues like I try and uphold Jewish traditions because my husband is Jewish, but she is half Jewish and shows no interest in her culture at all (another thing I can't respect).
She doesn't need your respect, and she doesn't need you trying to force a culture onto her. It's no surprise that you try and uphold your husband's traditions -what about your own?

I baked a half loaf of challah bread and gave it to her, but she could barely muster a 'thank you'.
That doesn't mean for a minute that she didn't appreciate it. In fact, it sounds like you did it only to get her gratitude, rather than as a selfless act for a friend.

That was also an excuse to show her how well I can bake bread (she looked totally disinterested when I tried to teach her how to make bread). When I tried to help her with bread baking she seemed surprised that I didn't know what the scientific definition of gluten is, but how is that even relevant to making good bread.
Are you some sort of stereotypical 1950's housewife? Not all woman are socially conditioned domestic servants, you know. So what if she doesn't care how well you can bake bread. She obviously doesn't share your interests or your bizarre gender roles.

Her husband (INTJ) works at the same company as my husband and has a better position, but my husband (ENFJ) could be senior manager if he wanted to be and I made sure to tell her that.
How petty, and it shows you as pathetic - you use your husband's potential and skills to brag, so I assume you don't have any real skills or ambitions of your own to use?

He tries to flaunt his job in our face by buying fancy cars and TVs, but we are above that kind of popular materialism. I personally think he just has short man syndrome (dude is only like 5'10").
You're above petty materialism, but not above petty gender roles? Also, 5 foot 10 is above average height for a man in the West, but I'm assuming you already know that and you're just continuing your insecurity and jealousy.
 

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I am not trying to be condescending or a know it all, but we have worried about whether her kids are getting adequate mothering. She seems to be disinterested in social community (not just mine) and activities for her kids. I just wanted to help by inviting her to my mother's group, but she just refused. Her kids seem happy enough, but I think they just don't know what they are missing. She said her son had trouble in school last year because it wasn't challenging enough, but I doubt the kid is that smart. He likes video games way too much for his own good. For some reason it sounded like she was bragging so I made some comments that her husband and kids are on the short side (take her down a notch). She rarely has full meals planned so I told her how I make lists and prepare ingredients in advance for the week, but she again, refused to take any of this seriously. I think I just don't like this woman's confidence..I mean to be perfectly honest my family is really smart, tall, social and I even have a creative streak and this mom seems to think she has all that plus more. I can really help people if they let me teach them, but if they can't see my talents then they are the ones who miss out.

Also, there are other issues like I try and uphold Jewish traditions because my husband is Jewish, but she is half Jewish and shows no interest in her culture at all (another thing I can't respect). I baked a half loaf of challah bread and gave it to her, but she could barely muster a 'thank you'. That was also an excuse to show her how well I can bake bread (she looked totally disinterested when I tried to teach her how to make bread). When I tried to help her with bread baking she seemed surprised that I didn't know what the scientific definition of gluten is, but how is that even relevant to making good bread.

Her husband (INTJ) works at the same company as my husband and has a better position, but my husband (ENFJ) could be senior manager if he wanted to be and I made sure to tell her that. He tries to flaunt his job in our face by buying fancy cars and TVs, but we are above that kind of popular materialism. I personally think he just has short man syndrome (dude is only like 5'10").
Seriously, this is the most idiotic and condescending thing I've read in my life. Troll, GTFO, because I refuse to believe anyone can actually be as idiotic as you not on purpose just to piss people off.

Here are some of Connie's nuggets of wisdom:

I used to be a math teacher in high school. That was a job that I always put 110% into. Unfortunately, many of the kids just cared about making good grades, but I wanted them to learn. I got burned out, but now I put my geometry know how into other things like sewing and wood working.

This nugget was in a thread about things people won't tolerate:

[I don't tolerarte] Do-gooders who are white and help poor minorities, especially if they brag about it..seems condescending and patronizing
[I don't tolerarte]Snobby people who like to think of themselves as the type who appreciates things the 'masses' cannot
[I don't tolerarte]Morally superior people who are passive aggressive and judgmental
[I don't tolerarte]Control freaks


Everything you say is in complete conflict so you are either a complacent moron or a troll. So unless you pay the troll toll, kindly GTFO.

 

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I am not trying to be condescending or a know it all, but we have worried about whether her kids are getting adequate mothering. She seems to be disinterested in social community (not just mine) and activities for her kids. I just wanted to help by inviting her to my mother's group, but she just refused. Her kids seem happy enough, but I think they just don't know what they are missing. She said her son had trouble in school last year because it wasn't challenging enough, but I doubt the kid is that smart. He likes video games way too much for his own good...
If playing too much video games too much makes you dumb, how did I get a 93% GPA last year? Sorry, I just had to counter the myth that video games = idiocy.
 

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Yikes, I didn't realize my posts would create such hostility and misunderstanding. If you knew me IRL you probably would really like me. I'm not a 1950's throw back...I used to teach math, was a math major (unlike most women) and before getting married had my own house and life. I've even been confused about my type at times; as a math student I thought I was more like an INTJ, INTP, or INFP but now as a SAHM (stay at home mom) I can see that I am more like an ESTJ, but I still feel very intelligent. It's hard to think that I am just being myself, wanting to help and somebody takes such offense to me. Also, unlike a stepford wife, I also tend to be competitive, but this drives me to excel at whatever I focus on. But I am always willing to share my knowledge and skills and be patient with beginners. Again, I don't want to sound arrogant, but I was actually one of the best teachers when I used to work as evidenced in test scores. Many of the other teachers didn't like me, but I think this is because I was very good at what I did and it made them look worse comparatively.
 

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After reading more and more of this... I just can't believe how childish it sounds. Why do you want to try and prove that you are better than this woman?! Why do you want to shove it in her face that you can make the best bread or whatever? You have some major insecurity issues. So what if this woman doesn't like or want your little group anymore. Why don't you go and talk about someone else for a change and quit pretending to be this lady's friend. Just because she doesn't parent the same way you do, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with her children. You say they seem happy... so let them be. No one cares how tall your family is... how the hell is that even relevant to anything?! lol

Sorry, I just HATE it when someone thinks they are better than someone else because they are so stuck in their own way of doing things and can't accept someone else for who they are.
 

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My definition of aggression is rude or hurtful comments, belittling someone that you don't understand or feel is beneath you, physical violence, producing a weapon to intimidate people, etc. Basically stuff that hurts others.

When I think of passive-aggressive I am talking about when he does things like when I ask him to do something, like take out the trash and he will say okay, but then two days later it is still there. Tell me "No", do not say okay then not do it. Or if I say I do not want to do something like go to see a certain movie and then he shows up with a surprise of prepaid movie tickets for it. Go see it by yourself or explain that it is really important that we both go. When I am talking about aggression I am referring to being forcefully assertive.
I do not think rudeness is exclusive to one or the other my brother does really rude things as a passive-aggressive.

Just to add another passive-aggressive thing he will do is instigate sex so he does not have to go to a social gathering. We have missed weddings and other important events do to this behavior.
 

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Is anyone else starting to think this is a troll? I could imagine someone secretly thinking the things she's saying, but to actually say it publicly and not be ashamed? Actually expect support? I dunno.
 

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Is anyone else starting to think this is a troll? I could imagine someone secretly thinking the things she's saying, but to actually say it publicly and not be ashamed? Actually expect support? I dunno.
I have been thinking that the person is either intentionally trolling or that the universe is trolling INTPs with this person's existence.
 

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Is anyone else starting to think this is a troll? I could imagine someone secretly thinking the things she's saying, but to actually say it publicly and not be ashamed? Actually expect support? I dunno.
It's not so much what she is saying that makes me think she's a troll, but rather that she is repeating herself without adressing the criticisms and side notes made by us... She seemed relatively normal (although emotionally disturbed) in her first post... but now she's just constantly repeating her egomaniacal views without really contributing to the conversation. Typical troll behaviour and a waste of our time in retrospect, unless connieculkins is actually going to respond to us and explain what the actual problem is without abundantly repeating herself.
 

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... +-----------------+
....|..... Please ......|
....|..... don't.........|
....|....feed the......|
....|.....trolls..........|
....|.Thanks, mgmt|
.....+----------------+
_______||__||________
 

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What is this, 4chan or personalitycafé?

I am not trying to be condescending or a know it all, [self-published source?] but we have worried about whether her kids are getting adequate mothering. She seems to be disinterested in social community (not just mine) and activities for her kids. [citation needed] I just wanted to help by inviting her to my mother's group, but she just refused. Her kids seem happy enough, but I think they just don't know what they are missing. [further explanation needed] She said her son had trouble in school last year because it wasn't challenging enough, but I doubt the kid is that smart. [original research?] He likes video games way too much for his own good [citation needed]. For some reason it sounded like she was bragging so I made some comments that her husband and kids are on the short side (take her down a notch). [specify] She rarely has full meals planned so I told her how I make lists and prepare ingredients in advance for the week, [why?] but she again, refused to take any of this seriously. I think I just don't like this woman's confidence.. [vague] I mean to be perfectly honest my family is really smart, tall, social and I even have a creative streak and this mom seems to think she has all that plus more. [unreliable source?] I can really help people if they let me teach them, but if they can't see my talents then they are the ones who miss out. [unbalanced opinion]

Also, there are other issues like I try and uphold Jewish traditions because my husband is Jewish, but she is half Jewish and shows no interest in her culture at all (another thing I can't respect) [neutrality is disputed] . I baked a half loaf of challah bread and gave it to her, but she could barely muster a 'thank you'[according to whom?]. That was also an excuse to show her how well I can bake bread [why?] (she looked totally disinterested when I tried to teach her how to make bread) [unbalanced opinion]. When I tried to help her with bread baking she seemed surprised that I didn't know what the scientific definition of gluten is, but how is that even relevant to making good bread. [verification needed]

Her husband (INTJ) works at the same company as my husband and has a better position, but my husband (ENFJ) could be senior manager if he wanted to be [according to whom?] and I made sure to tell her that. He tries to flaunt his job in our face by buying fancy cars and TVs, but we are above that kind of popular materialism. I personally think he just has short man syndrome (dude is only like 5'10") [original research?].
 

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When I think of passive-aggressive I am talking about when he does things like when I ask him to do something, like take out the trash and he will say okay, but then two days later it is still there. Tell me "No", do not say okay then not do it. Or if I say I do not want to do something like go to see a certain movie and then he shows up with a surprise of prepaid movie tickets for it. Go see it by yourself or explain that it is really important that we both go. When I am talking about aggression I am referring to being forcefully assertive.
I do not think rudeness is exclusive to one or the other my brother does really rude things as a passive-aggressive.

Just to add another passive-aggressive thing he will do is instigate sex so he does not have to go to a social gathering. We have missed weddings and other important events do to this behavior.
That's not passive aggressive - that's just lazy. He has probably forgotten to take out the trash; I'm quite sure he hasn't done it on purpose.
 

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I don't do passive.. I'm just straight up aggressive. :laughing:
 
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