Personality Cafe banner

1 - 5 of 5 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've been wondering a lot about this lately. I don't feel like i fit in any set "type" anymore, according to which functions i use, even though i have identified with being an ENTP for about.. 4-5 years.

I'm beginning to feel that the human need to "define" themselves with the help of things outside themselves, for example MBTI, while being helpful at first for understanding oneself, later on is rather limiting. I'm questioning the statement that function preferences are determined by your physiology. Since experiences and your view of the world change the way the brain works (brain plasticity), I'm thinking that your experiences and upbringing changes what is valued, and which functions you are most likely to start using and feel comfortable with.

Then I also believe that the "function lists" that go with the types , for example, Ne Ti Fe Si for ENTPs do work, as long as one is ignorant of how one's subconcious works. When you start to understand more of your own thought processes, rationalizations, your bias, the way your language forms how you think and you can observe them without judging, it feels like the set of functions is not at all set in stone.

According to keirseys temperaments, i'm most like an ENFP, "the champion", but i use a lot of Ni when reflecting on the world, seeing things from different perspectives is very very easy, changing the meaning of situations, and coming to profound realizations without being aware of the "steps" how i got there. I also see symbolism in a lot of things, very often.

Ne: I see patterns in things, i intuitively understand how things are interconnected, what they mean, I am also very quick when debating, and use almost only my Ne then. I would say this is absolutely my Dominant function.

Ti : I am very good at seeing internal logic in things and seeing how one theory fits with other theories, and I definitely see the value of debating definitions and semantics (although lately i feel that language is a crude instrument for describing the outside world, which is infinitely more complex than what the abstract symbolisms of words lead us to believe), and i am good at logical analysis, formal logic and all kinds of problem solving.

I also use Fi, but just lately i've been able to use tihs function. I easily see what motivates people, what emotions run through their bodies and i am very empathetic. I've also got a feel for what emotions run through my body, and what my emotions "are trying to tell me". I also think that morals really are e subjective thing, in the way nietzsche put it : "you have your way, i have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."

Still, I think that the actions people commit should not hurt others, and that one should think about "would it be okay if everyone did it like this", and people who act out of accordance to these principles, I don't like because they go against what I feel is good for humankind, group values. I am alslo something of a social chameleon, and easily get a feeling for group dynamics and what values are valued in a group, and in order to get a long with them I mostly adapt. It is pretty arrogant to feel that one's way of thinking is SO good and that one's own values are so much more right than other peoples values, so that one does not adapt to people and causes unnecessary conflict and abrasion. Also, "Speak to learned men in latin, and with the peasants in the language of peasants". I also am good at getting groups feeling unity and other Fe traits.

Te ; in situations when it is needed, i think the Te way. If analyzing whether a theory is correct or not, I prefer to use Ti because I feel it works better. If however, the end goal is a result of sorts, I use Te to check which theory has the best base in reality and would be the most useful.

Si : I am aware of how my memories and experiences have formed me (mostly! it is a little too deep in the subconscious for anyone to dare say that they know all of it), and i get "Si" moments, when i recall past experiences in order to see what i did wrong there and what i learned from it, in order to handle certain situations better.

Se : I sometimes get experiences when my cognitive filters and Ne shuts off, and i just percieve the world for what it is, every little detail, without being stuck in "trying to interpret" things. Blissful experiences, really.

What i can tell from typing myself is that my N is very strong, both introverted and extroverted. My S is still weaker. T/F, i'm able to use all functions as "tools", at least that's the way it feels like.

I am most definitely P though.

Would that leave me with ENxP, even though I think Ne Fi Te Si is not fitting at all?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,486 Posts
The problem is that the behaviour of different functions can look like each other. If you think you are using Ni, how do you know you are not using a combination of well-developed Si and Ne plus some judging functions? If you think you are using Fi, how do you know you are not using well-developed Ti and Fe plus some perceiving functions?

I think the MBTI function thing is not about what you use but what you prefer to use. And when I say prefer I don't mean prefer because it gets the job done but prefer since it doesn't scramble your brain and stress you out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,728 Posts
I don't think they are locked at all, I just think it takes a lot of effort to try and change the unconcious parts of our mind and those parts have a say in what our personality is like too

anybody can change given enough motivation or time, but not everyone is going to know how to do so

it's impossible to go from hardcore INFP to hardcore ESTJ for example. a person can start out hardcore INFP and maybe over time get to the point where they can test as ESTJ but their inner INFP traits will never go away entirely. they will only lessen.

that's like saying you can have english as your native language and then you learn arabic fluently but suddenly forget english after learning arabic. it's not possible.

If I wanted to develop all of my shadow functions to the point that I tested as an ENFJ i could, but I don't want to because I find Se retarded. So there's also personal reasons keeping people from changing type.
 

·
Subterranean Homesick Alien
Joined
·
11,928 Posts
I don't think they are locked at all, I just think it takes a lot of effort to try and change the unconcious parts of our mind and those parts have a say in what our personality is like too

anybody can change given enough motivation or time, but not everyone is going to know how to do so

If I wanted to develop all of my shadow functions to the point that I tested as an ENFJ i could, but I don't want to because I find Se retarded. So there's also personal reasons keeping people from changing type.
I'm not sure I really agree with you. You can certainly develop certain traits, but you're not gonna have changed your type.

An INFP is Fi-Ne-Si-Te. That effects your perspective. It does not describe all that you are or all of your behavior or all of your interests. It simply describes how you view the world.
An ENFJ is Fe-Ni-Se-Ti. That, of course, describes their perspective and way of looking at things.

Going from INFP to ENFJ is not as simple as exercising Fe and Ni and whatnot. Yes, you may get varying results on an MBTI test---that's precisely why I think that MBTI tests are good ONLY for narrowing down your possible types---,but that does not mean you've actually changed types.

I really do not think it's so easy. I theorize that it's so embedded in your mind that even in pursuing these type changing endeavors, your mind will still have that same way of viewing things no matter what you think. Not only that, but I don't think that the perspective of functions influence all the types who use that function in the same way anyway.

it's impossible to go from hardcore INFP to hardcore ESTJ for example. a person can start out hardcore INFP and maybe over time get to the point where they can test as ESTJ but their inner INFP traits will never go away entirely. they will only lessen.

that's like saying you can have english as your native language and then you learn arabic fluently but suddenly forget english after learning arabic. it's not possible.
Languages can be learned. The language functions in the brain cannot.
Behaviors/traits can be learned. Our natural/basic way of viewing things cannot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
http://www.bravepeople.se/actionlogics.pdf

(a link about stages of development, consciousness, ego trandescendance and whatnot..)

On the higher stages of consciousness, are you sure the function order is still fixed?
Would you for example say that buddhist monks (the highly developed ones) would fit any certain type?
 
1 - 5 of 5 Posts
Top