Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 67 Posts

·
Premium Member
INFJ 4w3 sp/sx
Joined
·
1,533 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
There is an absurd amount of threads on this subforum made by people (mostly people who are other MBTI types) complaining about "mixed signals" sent by INFJs.

This means some people try to get closer to INFJs, but we can't just be straightforward and say "NO, I don't want to get close to you". Instead, we try to reject the person in the subtlest ways possible, so subtle most people can't even notice they're being rejected.

Unfortunately, I have to admit I'm guilty of doing this. I don't know how to reject people at all. It is a major flaw/weakness of mine. Can you relate to this?

(Thinking about it, I think some other types can suffer from the same issue, such as INFPs or ISFJs).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly Kapowski

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Yes. It's not really something I'd been aware of or thought much about until the last few years. I know that really it's more unkind than just being direct. I'm working on fixing this about myself.

I will say this, I am direct about how I am when people ask about getting to know me better/become friends. I let them know right off the bat that I am not good at maintaining friendships & I will most likely not initiate talking/hanging out. If they choose to continue to pursue a friendship, there are no surprises down the road. 😬 I say from the beginning how I tend to behave.
 

·
Premium Member
INFJ 4w3 sp/sx
Joined
·
1,533 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
rd amount of threads on this subforum made by people (mostly people who are other MBTI types) complaining about "mixed signals" sent by INFJs.

This means some people try to get closer to INFJs, but we can't just be straightforward and say "NO, I don't want to get close to you". Instead, we try to reject the person in the subtlest ways possible, so subtle most people can't even notice they're being rejected.

Unfortunately, I have to admit I'm guilty of doing this. I don't know how to reject people at all. It is a major flaw/weakness of mine. Can you relate to this?
Yes. It's not really something I'd been aware of or thought much about until the last few years. I know that really it's more unkind than just being direct. I'm working on fixing this about myself.

I will say this, I am direct about how I am when people ask about getting to know me better/become friends. I let them know right off the bat that I am not good at maintaining friendships & I will most likely not initiate talking/hanging out. If they choose to continue to pursue a friendship, there are no surprises down the road. 😬 I say from the beginning how I tend to behave.
I thought I was the only one who suffered from this “I am a sucky friend” syndrome lol. I can share great moments with someone during one or two days, but (unfortunately) this doesn’t mean I’ll be consistently there for them when they need me. I know it’s a flaw, but I find it hard to be consistent/fair when distributing my social energy to the people in my life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
I thought I was the only one who suffered from this “I am a sucky friend” syndrome lol. I can share great moments with someone during one or two days, but (unfortunately) this doesn’t mean I’ll be consistently there for them when they need me. I know it’s a flaw, but I find it hard to be consistent/fair when distributing my social energy to the people in my life.

Ditto. Emphasis on the "consistently" part. I will always try, but some days I don't try as much as others.


Also, not quite what you're saying but in relation to the sucky friend part & along the same lines- I recently read a comment that said something like "I can spend time with someone & have a great experience/be happy in the moment, then get back home (or whatever) & not think about them at all." This is how I feel about most interactions. 😬

I have a lot of friends & can find it overwhelming to manage. Esp when I only want 1 or 2 really good friends. This is my biggest issue. I want to put all of my "friend" focus/energy on them, the ones I have a unique connection with. I think maybe this is an Sx thing though? 🤷‍♀️
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,774 Posts
@Kelly Kapowski There’s nothing wrong with only wanting to put your attention on the people who you have a special connection with. That’s how we NFPs do it. We don’t fake the energy or feelings for the ones who don’t make us feel like it. I’d say it is the RIGHT thing to do to only put your energy into those that matter to you. The rest of the relationships aren’t real so how do they really benefit people? Hmm.

Interesting...Hmm... easy and right for me to narrow relationships with Fi in light of time and prioritizing what is important...Hard to narrow my interests with Ne...they are all enjoyable and interests lead to interests... Plus wasting time on PerC. The argument of having only 1 life with limited time is applicable to both prioritizations.
Again so interesting, Kelly! 😀
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
@Kelly Kapowski There’s nothing wrong with only wanting to put your attention on the people who you have a special connection with. That’s how we NFPs do it. We don’t fake the energy or feelings for the ones who don’t make us feel like it. I’d say it is the RIGHT thing to do to only put your energy into those that matter to you. The rest of the relationships aren’t real so how do they really benefit people? Hmm.

Interesting...Hmm... easy and right for me to narrow relationships with Fi in light of time and prioritizing what is important...Hard to narrow my interests with Ne...they are all enjoyable and interests lead to interests... Plus wasting time on PerC. The argument of having only 1 life with limited time is applicable to both prioritizations.
Again so interesting, Kelly! 😀

Thank you for taking the time to say this, @Llyralen. It really means a lot.❤ It is so opposite of how my brain thinks/expectations I put on myself that I feel a lot of guilt going against it. Even if I know it’s what’s best for me. Actually, especially if I do it because it’s what’s best for me. My inclination is to feel like I’m being selfish.


Easy for you to narrow relationships? How do you do that, may I ask? Do you make a choice to keep your friend “list” to a number you’re comfortable with? Or maybe you just have a higher threshold for what you can handle? Do you ever turn people away when they want to befriend you & you’re not interested? Or are you simply talking about being able to say “no” to a friend wanting to spend time with you when you don’t want to/aren’t able to? Sorry for so many questions. Hope they make sense.

Edit: Came back because this conversation made me have another thought. I was talking to my ENTJ friend the other day & the topic of interactions came up. He mentioned that it feels good to be mean sometimes, to which I disagreed. (Adore you if you come across this ENTJ freeeeen 😂) He said I should be mean to people- well not mean, but pick a fight with someone. I said no, my goal with every interaction is generally to leave people feeling better. This applies to everyone. Check-out clerks, stangers, friends. All the people. He said he’s never looked at interactions like this, that they are just something you do to get done/accomplish something. I was floored. sO mY pOiNt To AlL tHiS bAbBlE iiiiis- how do you view interactions? What is your goal in them? I’m curious if Fi & Fe view them differently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,774 Posts
Thank you for taking the time to say this, @Llyralen. It really means a lot.❤ It is so opposite of how my brain thinks/expectations I put on myself that I feel a lot of guilt going against it. Even if I know it’s what’s best for me. Actually, especially if I do it because it’s what’s best for me. My inclination is to feel like I’m being selfish.


Easy for you to narrow relationships? How do you do that, may I ask? Do you make a choice to keep your friend “list” to a number you’re comfortable with? Or maybe you just have a higher threshold for what you can handle? Do you ever turn people away when they want to befriend you & you’re not interested? Or are you simply talking about being able to say “no” to a friend wanting to spend time with you when you don’t want to/aren’t able to? Sorry for so many questions. Hope they make sense.

Edit: Came back because this conversation made me have another thought. I was talking to my ENTJ friend the other day & the topic of interactions came up. He mentioned that it feels good to be mean sometimes, to which I disagreed. (Adore you if you come across this ENTJ freeeeen 😂) He said I should be mean to people- well not mean, but pick a fight with someone. I said no, my goal with every interaction is generally to leave people feeling better. This applies to everyone. Check-out clerks, stangers, friends. All the people. He said he’s never looked at interactions like this, that they are just something you do to get done/accomplish something. I was floored. sO mY pOiNt To AlL tHiS bAbBlE iiiiis- how do you view interactions? What is your goal in them? I’m curious if Fi & Fe view them differently.
I think Fi and Te view interactions very differently and friendships differently. Developed Te is on the other side, not like developed Fi. Te often likes to cut people down and out or if they like someone then they want to push their reasons against them and have the other person push back. Basically bash each other over the heads and know that they can be themselves that way. Then they feel like equals (I guess) and respect for the other person. They want people to stand up for themselves, and they want to see it and they give cause to make someone stand up for themselves a lot of the time. Some of them grow out of the cutting but they still like to push and be pushed back as far as I know.

Anyway, I’m having to think how I decide I want someone to be a close friend. Basically I have to be super picky about it because I’m not going to do things that are against my morals And I’m not going to hang out with people who have too different morals (actually if I’m being honest my friends and my husband have the exact same morals as I do, so I don’t know what others would say about that, but it’s not easy finding them). I also want to be able to have freedom to do the things I do want to do and not everyone allows that freedom and not everyone allows real closeness. As an sx first myself it’s extremely important to find the right person exactly. I want to be able to be very close to those people Im close to and they have to meet me on most of my interests in order for me to show and explore most of my interests with them. To me that’s like either being ME with someone or me being not able to. If I can’topen up about my interests and everything Im thinking and feelings and them too then I’m only going to be showing a certain percentile of me and that is what most acquaintances get. They also only get a fraction of my time. So mostly I’ve got people I talk to about 1-2 different topics at work and I notice how people around me are doing and give them positivity and encouragement and maybe what they need if they need me (like if a family member died or something). but most people only need a good word, a complement, a smile. If people want to be closer, I usually put them off with my busyness if I want to because I keep busy. But people I want to spend time with I try to make happen and that is only 1-2 people usually. I don’t think I have time for a 3rd and I spend a lot of time with my husband, he is actually counting as #1. In this scenario.

@Respect said NFPs usually are very picky about our friendships and who we spend time with and INFJs are picky about who they work with. ENFPs expect to work with anyone. INFJs expect to hang out with anyone? it’s kind of vice-versa.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly Kapowski

·
Beer Guardian
ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE Honorary INTJ
Joined
·
15,865 Posts
There is an absurd amount of threads on this subforum made by people (mostly people who are other MBTI types) complaining about "mixed signals" sent by INFJs.

This means some people try to get closer to INFJs, but we can't just be straightforward and say "NO, I don't want to get close to you". Instead, we try to reject the person in the subtlest ways possible, so subtle most people can't even notice they're being rejected.

Unfortunately, I have to admit I'm guilty of doing this. I don't know how to reject people at all. It is a major flaw/weakness of mine. Can you relate to this?

(Thinking about it, I think some other types can suffer from the same issue, such as INFPs or ISFJs).
This doesn't sound like dishonesty, you just don't like to be blunt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
I think Fi and Te view interactions very differently and friendships differently. Developed Te is on the other side, not like developed Fi. Te often likes to cut people down and out or if they like someone then they want to push their reasons against them and have the other person push back. Basically bash each other over the heads and know that they can be themselves that way. Then they feel like equals (I guess) and respect for the other person. They want people to stand up for themselves, and they want to see it and they give cause to make someone stand up for themselves a lot of the time. Some of them grow out of the cutting but they still like to push and be pushed back as far as I know.
I understand Te zero. No matter how many descriptions I read about it, I have such a hard time grasping it. I think it must really be one of my weaknesses.

Anyway, I’m having to think how I decide I want someone to be a close friend. Basically I have to be super picky about it because I’m not going to do things that are against my morals And I’m not going to hang out with people who have too different morals (actually if I’m being honest my friends and my husband have the exact same morals as I do, so I don’t know what others would say about that, but it’s not easy finding them).
This is interesting. I think I actually prefer people that are different from me. I feel like I have more to learn from them. I'd say most of my friends have similar morals to me, and this is maybe one reason I find a lot of them boring? It's a bubble of sameness. Sameness is boring to me. Not sure, I need to think about that more.


I also want to be able to have freedom to do the things I do want to do and not everyone allows that freedom and not everyone allows real closeness. As an sx first myself it’s extremely important to find the right person exactly. I want to be able to be very close to those people Im close to and they have to meet me on most of my interests in order for me to show and explore most of my interests with them. To me that’s like either being ME with someone or me being not able to. If I can’topen up about my interests and everything Im thinking and feelings and them too then I’m only going to be showing a certain percentile of me and that is what most acquaintances get.
Huh. I had a long paragraph written out here, but decided I need to think about this more. My initial reaction was that we were the same in the bolded but not the rest, however as I was typing & thinking about it, I think maybe I'm mistaken & not quite understanding myself & what exactly it is I look for. I didn't think shared interests was really very important to me, outside of maybe 1 unique interest that bonds us or the common interest being something I feel passionate about, but maybe it is more than that. Maybe I'm not seeing myself clearly & what I want.

Would you categorize most people in your life as aquaintances? I guess meaning do you have people that think you are good friends but you'd consider maybe more of an aquaintance? Kind of like there are different degrees of friendship, and people think you're better friends than what you think you are? I wonder if Fi's don't struggle with this as much as Fe's (because our desire for others to feel cared for is misinterpretted as more than what it is). Did we talk about this before? I can't remember. I'm sorry if I'm repeating a conversation we've already had. 😣


They also only get a fraction of my time. So mostly I’ve got people I talk to about 1-2 different topics at work and I notice how people around me are doing and give them positivity and encouragement and maybe what they need if they need me (like if a family member died or something). but most people only need a good word, a complement, a smile. If people want to be closer, I usually put them off with my busyness if I want to because I keep busy. But people I want to spend time with I try to make happen and that is only 1-2 people usually. I don’t think I have time for a 3rd and I spend a lot of time with my husband, he is actually counting as #1. In this scenario.
I'd say we are in line with majority of this paragraph. 😊 Where I struggle is people often want to push it farther than this. To move beyond this. And I don't want to. And these people are often quite pushy about it. Like, they don't give up. Which then irritates me more.

@Respect said NFPs usually are very picky about our friendships and who we spend time with and INFJs are picky about who they work with. ENFPs expect to work with anyone. INFJs expect to hang out with anyone? it’s kind of vice-versa.

I don't know, I don't think I agree with this personally. I can work with anyone. I wouldn't put that limit on myself, I guess. It's a broader stroke than that. I think I'm pretty good at putting differences aside & figuring out how to work with another person. In fact, I find it very rewarding. I think we talked about that before.

In regards to friendships, I'd say I think everyone deserves a chance (maybe against my better judgement because generally I know right away if there's a connection or not). Which is maybe why I get myself into trouble. I get to know someone a bit & usually lose interest. I don't know where to go from there. It's like you want to "break-up" with a person, and WHO LIKES THAT 😰. So then I'm stuck with a lot of friends that want to spend time together or chat that I don't quite know what to do with?

The thing is, I have been surprised a couple of times. In fact, the two people whose friendships mean the most to me right now started out like that. I thought we were too different for it to develop into much of a friendship, and it turned out to be the opposite. I have learned the most from them. Which I think is the most important thing to me in a partner/friend. I'm really realizing this now as I type this out. I knew it was important, but I think it may be the most important thing to me. Someone that I can learn from. Due to our differences. It challenges me, makes me think differently. Ok word salad. I'm sorry, this is what happens when I just type as I'm thinking rather than thinking it through first.
 

·
Beer Guardian
ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE Honorary INTJ
Joined
·
15,865 Posts
Isn't there a little bit of dishonesty in not being blunt/direct, though? It can leave the door open for confusion & misinterpretation, which is not exactly what I'd call being honest.
I think motivation matters. My guess is a lot of INFJs are sensitive to the feelings of others and don't like to be seen as cruel or mean towards others, particularly if they care about them.

Would it create less trouble in the long run if they were more up front? Possibly. Is being sensitive to the feelings of others also a noble goal? I think so. You're considered "protectors" are you not?

I am beginning to think maybe some INFJs are being too hard on themselves. Perhaps that is also something to consider.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
I think motivation matters. My guess is a lot of INFJs are sensitive to the feelings of others and don't like to be seen as cruel or mean towards others, particularly if they care about them.

Would it create less trouble in the long run if they were more up front? Possibly. Is being sensitive to the feelings of others also a noble goal? I think so. You're considered "protectors" are you not?

I am beginning to think maybe some INFJs are being too hard on themselves. Perhaps that is also something to consider.
Well, 🤗 I guess because I'm not sure what words to use, but that sums up how your post makes me feel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,774 Posts
@Kelly Kapowski
The INFJ who I used to live with, she had a set number of friends in her mind that she could handle. She changed that way after living with her INFP cousin. She said “I found out I didn’t have to number it.”. But before that I remember saying to her that the reason someone chooses someone as a close friend needs to be respected. People know what they need. I think I just wanted her to appreciate me and others who wanted to be close to her a more and understand their reasons but I have changed a lot since then. I did not understand Fe and Ti when I said that.

It’s a big complement to have people who want to be close to you, but if the INFJ doesn’t value them and if the friendship is not working out for the INFJ’s own reasons then I definitely think you should cut ties earlier than later. If people are not valued then I have a hard time seeing any of it as “real.” and kind of ultimately damaging. But I don’t have Fe. I don’t have Ti. It’s a completely different growth curve. I think the word “authentic” was only created for the Fi-Te axis. I don’t know... the factor of surprise that you talk about is a very good thing. I also think INFJs can grow in their reasons as everyone can as well. So different people at different times should be allowed too.

I don’t actually even think the ENFP way of doing it can even be used as a foil. The more I think about Fe and Ti and the development and change that goes on in between developing that system the more I know there really is not a good comparison inside of my Fi-Te growth curve that could help.

You basically need support to follow your Ti reasons— which I am voicing support for right now— and you also need to be able to allow yourself mistakes while you do. For instance, you might find that you valued a friend much more than you realized you go you have up. Or you might realize later “Do you know who would give me great advice about this? That person I haven’t talked to for 6 years.” And you need to know that that is okay. (Or maybe you do know that is okay? I don’t know what you’d feel about that. I don’t really see INFJs dabbling with regrets as a general rule, the past is in the past.).

But anyway those mistakes happen as you follow your TI (or Fi) and then as your thinking and reasoning expands and it seems okay to me to progress forward in that way.

I think on one level or other people know when they are valued or not and keep trying to figure out where they stand if they are not sure. I think it would actually increase them contacting you if somewhere underneath everything they are wondering why you aren’t quite authentically into it. So I can’t say what I would say to most people “It was already over when it began. Pull the bandaid off”. Maybe the ones you know that you value the least you can start to become “too busy” to see? Start with low-hanging fruit.

I do think that your insight about wanting to learn from a friendship is probably the best one. After my thread about “Do you bond from feelings?” I realized that probably INFJs bond best from a shared cause, maybe.

Which might be why a few INFJs @reapect interviewed agreed about being careful about who they work on projects with. I think Ni-Ti together is going to want to make sure that whatever life work or cause they have is going well. Looking back, when an INFJ tells me they would like to work with me on something then I know that’s where they are actually truly hopeful and excited about the relationship. If self-growth is part of your cause or project for the future, then this would all make sense.

Good luck as you get “too busy”. I know that will not be easy... that is if you’re starting to think you need to move forward in reducing your friendship-load. And either way, I voice my support of whatever you think is best moving forward.
 

·
Read Only
INTP Tritype 512
Joined
·
435 Posts
My personal experience with 2 INFJs had no mixed signals for me. But it may be that I was an older INTP and they were younger INFJs. (I don't care about age, if you are cool, we are friends).

The first INFJ was great friends with me for years, but was caught between choosing sides: our friendship or some deeply personal belief + peer pressure. It was not an ultimatum I presented, it was a complicated situation that we were both dragged into and I was made the scapegoat of. He chose the deeply personal belief + peer pressure. The consequence is that I lost all credibility to him. I basically became a crazy person in his eyes. He "cared" about me in this now condescending way, someone he outgrew and was better than, and I wouldn't have it. He chose to conveniently forget 5 years of track record. I walked.

After Hurricane Harvey, when no one checked if I and my fam was ok for several weeks, I checked in on this other INFJ. We weren't friends for as long, just some months. He never really initiated messages or showed huge interest, so I figured he was lukewarm to begin with. But then he says, "Sorry, I've been busy checking in on friends to see if they're ok." The massive unsaid elephant in the room was, "And you were not one of them."

We had a short convo where he expressed this desire to help people in Houston, I told him about some centers I'd seen on the news accepting stuff, and we have never spoken again.

Tbh, whenever INFJs get into this whole thing of, "We care too much about other people's feelings to blah blah blah" I have to say people are smart enough to see through your fake. It's not as nice as you think it is. Just be honest, please and thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Tbh, whenever INFJs get into this whole thing of, "We care too much about other people's feelings to blah blah blah" I have to say people are smart enough to see through your fake. It's not as nice as you think it is. Just be honest, please and thank you.
May I ask, would you mind describing what it is that you think is fake? Not because I disagree with you, but because I'd like to understand better. I see times when Fe seems fake, and there are times it can be. I'm curious what your POV is, though.

In your example & what the OP was talking about, the "We care too much about other people's feelings blah blah blah" bit, I'm having a hard time seeing how that's fake? Fake isn't the word I'd use to describe it I guess, however dishonest does seem to fit. I reeeeally don't want to hurt the person, that is completely my motivation for not saying my true feelings. "The truth hurts" is a very applicable saying in so many cases. Not everyone is able (emotionally) to hear the honest truth. So how do you manage that then? People (T's mainly, I'd say? Maybe that is an incorrect generalization.) that value truth highest will prioritize truth over feelings. Not everyone is like this. I hate hate hate hurting someone's feelings. I hate it. It will stick with me for a long time & I will feel like the worst person on the planet. I don't think T's generally have this "guilt" issue. And if they do, it's not as long-lasting nor as deeply cutting. But I could 100% be mistaken on this, I am open to being told & shown where I'm wrong here. And I get that this still can seem like a "cop-out" & weak to someone that doesn't value other's feelings as highly. I also get that it can be argued it's not actually valuing another's feelings in the long run. <- This is where I see the issue.

In the aforementioned scenario, here is where I see another problem: we seem to martyr ourselves in this situation. Rather than just accepting that it is our own fault we are in this pickle, we want to blame the other person? If that makes sense. And that is a problem & unfair.

The times I do see Fe as being fake/selfish are when it tries to cheer people up or change the mood of someone. I think that comes from a selfish motive/being uncomfortable so it tries to change the atmosphere. I don't like seeing people sad, it makes me sad. So I often try to change that by cheering them up, rather than just letting them be sad.

Thank you for sharing your experiences & POV. It doesn't feel good reading, but it's good to hear & analyze if it applies in my life & where I can & should make adjustments. I'm sorry you weren't treated kindly by those INFJ. Though I guess I'm also not, because every experience (whether good or bad) is something to learn from, so 🤷‍♀️. Best wishes, apologies if this is too much talking. Feel free to disregard.

One final thought SORRRYYYYYY 😬 In your second example, the INFJ was honest. And you didn't like it. Would you rather he'd have pretended & made excuses for not getting ahold of you? Isn't that what you're taking issue with INFJ's in your conclusion? The "We care too much about other's feelings blah blah blah" "just be honest". He was honest, no? He didn't pretend to see you as more of a friend than he thought you were. I guess it seems a bit contradictory to me? To say "DO THIS" but then get upset when they/we actually "DO THIS". Or are you saying he should have flat out said, in that moment, "you are not my friend"? I guess I'm confused how you would've liked him to handle that situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
I'm feeling a bit frustrated. People complain that INFJ's aren't honest/are fake because of Fe, but then when we are honest & direct people get mad & think we're assholes. HoW dArE yOu ExPrEsS yOuR AcTuAl ThOuGhTs AnD fEeLiNgS 😤. It's an unwinable battle. Piss off. We are allowed to be jerks sometimes too. It seems like other types get a pass on this. Being direct is admired. Being an asshole is admired. It's just expected of them, it's how they are so it's ok. An INFJ does it & they get shat all over. Because we are nice most of the time doesn't mean we are going to be nice all of the time. It's not an either/or. We can be both. The end.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
@Kelly Kapowski
The INFJ who I used to live with, she had a set number of friends in her mind that she could handle. She changed that way after living with her INFP cousin. She said “I found out I didn’t have to number it.”. But before that I remember saying to her that the reason someone chooses someone as a close friend needs to be respected. People know what they need. I think I just wanted her to appreciate me and others who wanted to be close to her a more and understand their reasons but I have changed a lot since then. I did not understand Fe and Ti when I said that.

It’s a big complement to have people who want to be close to you, but if the INFJ doesn’t value them and if the friendship is not working out for the INFJ’s own reasons then I definitely think you should cut ties earlier than later. If people are not valued then I have a hard time seeing any of it as “real.” and kind of ultimately damaging. But I don’t have Fe. I don’t have Ti. It’s a completely different growth curve. I think the word “authentic” was only created for the Fi-Te axis. I don’t know... the factor of surprise that you talk about is a very good thing. I also think INFJs can grow in their reasons as everyone can as well. So different people at different times should be allowed too.

I don’t actually even think the ENFP way of doing it can even be used as a foil. The more I think about Fe and Ti and the development and change that goes on in between developing that system the more I know there really is not a good comparison inside of my Fi-Te growth curve that could help.

You basically need support to follow your Ti reasons— which I am voicing support for right now— and you also need to be able to allow yourself mistakes while you do. For instance, you might find that you valued a friend much more than you realized you go you have up. Or you might realize later “Do you know who would give me great advice about this? That person I haven’t talked to for 6 years.” And you need to know that that is okay. (Or maybe you do know that is okay? I don’t know what you’d feel about that. I don’t really see INFJs dabbling with regrets as a general rule, the past is in the past.).

But anyway those mistakes happen as you follow your TI (or Fi) and then as your thinking and reasoning expands and it seems okay to me to progress forward in that way.

I think on one level or other people know when they are valued or not and keep trying to figure out where they stand if they are not sure. I think it would actually increase them contacting you if somewhere underneath everything they are wondering why you aren’t quite authentically into it. So I can’t say what I would say to most people “It was already over when it began. Pull the bandaid off”. Maybe the ones you know that you value the least you can start to become “too busy” to see? Start with low-hanging fruit.

I do think that your insight about wanting to learn from a friendship is probably the best one. After my thread about “Do you bond from feelings?” I realized that probably INFJs bond best from a shared cause, maybe.

Which might be why a few INFJs @reapect interviewed agreed about being careful about who they work on projects with. I think Ni-Ti together is going to want to make sure that whatever life work or cause they have is going well. Looking back, when an INFJ tells me they would like to work with me on something then I know that’s where they are actually truly hopeful and excited about the relationship. If self-growth is part of your cause or project for the future, then this would all make sense.

Good luck as you get “too busy”. I know that will not be easy... that is if you’re starting to think you need to move forward in reducing your friendship-load. And either way, I voice my support of whatever you think is best moving forward.

@Llyralen I do this often with you it seems- I save responding to you for last because I really want to give you a good reply, but then I spend so much time on other replies I run out of time to reply to you. I will really try to get back to this tonight! And if I don't get to it tonight, it's #1 on my list tomorrow!

I will say this, this post sums up what I love so much about Fi. Everyone needs a friend with high Fi, the support you guys give in the feelings department is unmatchable. I'll also say this- I hope you know you can call me out when you disagree with what I'm feeling/saying too. E.g. tell me when I'm being an asshole. I respect & see value in all input, not just the positive affirmations. Though I won't pretend- I DO LOVE ME SOME POSITIVE AFFIRMATION WHEN I'M QUESTIONING MYSELF 🥰🤗 But I'm also not blind to where I really fail in the "people'ing" department. It's ok to point that out to me. It's good to be reminded the way we (can) behave can hurt people & things we need to work on.
 

·
Read Only
INTP Tritype 512
Joined
·
435 Posts
May I ask, would you mind describing what it is that you think is fake? Not because I disagree with you, but because I'd like to understand better.

One final thought SORRRYYYYYY 😬 In your second example, the INFJ was honest. And you didn't like it. Would you rather he'd have pretended & made excuses for not getting ahold of you? Isn't that what you're taking issue with INFJ's in your conclusion? The "We care too much about other's feelings blah blah blah" "just be honest". He was honest, no? He didn't pretend to see you as more of a friend than he thought you were. I guess it seems a bit contradictory to me? To say "DO THIS" but then get upset when they/we actually "DO THIS". Or are you saying he should have flat out said, in that moment, "you are not my friend"? I guess I'm confused how you would've liked him to handle that situation.
No, INFJ in the second example was not honest. That is called "leading someone on." Telling me in the first place that he was not interested in being friends long ago, before visiting me, before playing games together, before adding me on his phone, before any of that? That would have been honest... Instead of waiting until after a massive hurricane and the emergency situation that brought out enough stress for him to finally say enough of how he felt.

That's also why I say it's fake. It may not be the right word, it's just the one that comes to mind since it's not how someone really feels. They're "faking" for my sake to some degree.

Edit to add this other point: He made the decision for me. Rather than thinking I was a big enough person to handle that he wasn't really interested in a friendship long before the hurricane, he was just faking along. I really don't like it when other people make decisions for me, especially on an emotional level. Give me the news, let me decide how to handle it.

I'm feeling a bit frustrated. People complain that INFJ's aren't honest/are fake because of Fe, but then when we are honest & direct people get mad & think we're assholes.
^ THIS. This is honest. Everything you wrote here is honest. Thank you.

I am not going to speak for all thinkers, or all INTPs. I have had some psychology training and I am about ownership of yourself and your feelings. If someone continues contacting you that you are sort of "meh" about, and you don't really want to talk with? No, you don't need to be super cruel about it like, "You're a pathetic spawn of life and I want nothing to do with you."

Saying, "You know, I'm not really clicking with you," or "I'm not having a good time," that is ownership of yourself and your feelings.

People call that selfish, and that crawls up my armpit since they say that's selfish and then say, "You can't please everyone." And then they say leading someone on is selfish, and then there's sayings like, "You can't win for losing." Or a Catch 22.

So if people will be upset no matter what, I would start at my boundaries, my ownership, where it's healthy. And yup, we thinkers upset people all the time. There has to be a boundary. The other person's feelings are not your responsibility. When people upset me, my feelings are my own to work on. So my post? I was upset. And knowing you INFJs, you pick up on that instantly. That's something I needed to get used to with my first INFJ friend in particular. It was like a sixth sense, and he would be responding to my feelings before I was halfway aware of them.

But they are mine, not yours. I was hurt by those in my post, and that's my hurt, not yours. It's not something you need to fix or take care of.

By taking care of your own feelings, and ownership of your own feelings, which includes aligning the rest of your life outside to your integrity inside? That's how you take care of yourself and find your sense of peace and balance. I hope that makes sense.

As for the stuff about how narcissism/a-hole-ism is admired? Don't even get me started. >.>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,774 Posts
I'm feeling a bit frustrated. People complain that INFJ's aren't honest/are fake because of Fe, but then when we are honest & direct people get mad & think we're assholes. HoW dArE yOu ExPrEsS yOuR AcTuAl ThOuGhTs AnD fEeLiNgS 😤. It's an unwinable battle. Piss off. We are allowed to be jerks sometimes too. It seems like other types get a pass on this. Being direct is admired. Being an asshole is admired. It's just expected of them, it's how they are so it's ok. An INFJ does it & they get shat all over. Because we are nice most of the time doesn't mean we are going to be nice all of the time. It's not an either/or. We can be both. The end.
First of all /hug. I meant the support that I voiced. I meant that it is a growth-curve as well.

The problem is the timing. And it makes me giggle to put it this way. Jerks and assholes who know that they are jerks and assholes are jerks and assholes at the start... and then they might warm up a bit... and that warm up might actually be because they genuinely like a person.

So the INFJ problem is a “know yourself” timing problem. Because other people bond with time spent together and INFJs don’t really bond simply from time spent together (no Si or Fi and lower Ti) so LOL... it’s just rough all around... but this is where the problem with people at first thinking INFJs are perfect is. Plus I don’t think it’s fair to INFJs or to other people to have us all thinking that up-front you guys seem perfect and you’re acting “well” with Ni and Fe and then years later you figure out who you are and yeah.... Haven’t we had INFJs on here who have been married for years and still don’t really care for their mate? I’ve seen it here. And I’ve seen INFJs around me who just had so much disappointment from their relationships, especially marriages. Of course not everyone, thank heavens. I do have an INFJ friend in a marriage she enjoys.

I actually think the problems INFJs have need to be much more upfront. It would help you guys and it would help everybody else... so how to do that in a way that you all will stand for? Actually Frank James has some great videos on it... also the ones about the difficulties you guys have when you DO like someone and are fearful, but anyway...

It’s funny, yes? It is. I have been learning great compassion for this growth curve. I wish I could help us all more because you KNOW, Kelly... I’ve been horribly hurt by this growth curve and have been trying to understand it extensively. But right now I’m feeling very compassionate about it and also kind of wish I could help everyone with it... I’m just feeling glad that I finally understand it better and I can’t expect it to be different.

Even after you know yourself better, Fe is still first and stronger. ISFJs who would have this problem bond from time spent, so this is not their problem either as far as I can tell. ENFJs cut the world into the way they want it more because of their extroversion and so INTJs deal with some of the same fears but it’s a different deal with Te and Fi. I’m afraid you guys are a bit on your own with this. I hope I’m not offending by saying so. Also... let me know if you have ideas on what would be helpful. I really do want to be able to be helpful. To you and to INFJs in general.
 

·
Registered
INFJ
Joined
·
5,832 Posts
I absolutely have a difficult time being completely honest to people, especially when it comes to the topic of any kind of social interaction. Not that I outright lie, but if I told people the absolute truth about what I feel, I would fear that people would think I had antisocial personality disorder and not being around me.
The truth about me is that:
I like being invited to things because it means that people like me, but I also hate being invited to things, because now I feel obligated, and I feel selfish if I don't have a good reason to cancel, even though sometimes I really really really don't feel like leaving the house at all.
When I don't reply to message 9 times out of 10, it's because I totally replied in my head, so I thought I replied, and the 10th time, it's because I spent a whole day forgetting I even have a phone, until I want to use it.
When friends start wanting to text me every day, it stresses me out, because I often forget I have a phone until I want to use it, as I said above, and I'm so scared of hurting my friend's feelings if I take, like, a whole day to reply to them.
I don't initiate contact with others because I thought of 100 different ways to start a conversation, but then either don't find any of them suitable, or by the time I do find a suitable conversation topic to contact someone with, it's too late to contact them, because I'm weird about contacting people while they're in bed. I don't want to wake them up if they're asleep or interrupt something they might not want interrupted with a notification because they forgot to put their phone on silent, so by the time it's the next day, I totally forgot I was going to contact them.
When people contact me every day and just ask me question after question, boy do I find that annoying and want to avoid that person at all costs, even though I have no good reason to do so, and have a difficult time saying "I find you annoying. Stop doing that."
It's very rare for me to encounter a person I miss a lot, when they're gone.
If you had a habit of giving me a lot of unsolicited advice and do a lot of buttinski things that show you're trying to control me in some way, or if you're the kind of person who likes to correct people all the time, even if you're a great friend otherwise, there's a good chance, I don't miss you, at all when we're separated.
Sometimes, I find people annoying for reasons that they can't always help, and while I like to see myself as an accepting person, the sad truth is that I don't always accept people with psychological differences that might lead to particular kinds of character flaws, as much as I think I should be.

I don't like doing anything that involves leaving the house.

TL DR;
I like interacting with people, but get stressed out when it feels like an obligation to interact with people.

I am, however, very honest with my fiance all the time, and it's so refreshing to have someone in my life like that.
 
1 - 20 of 67 Posts
Top