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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I NOTE: it seems people are assuming different things based on the word " intelligence" by intelligence I mean that "the ability to think logically and critically how fast one can accomplish this".

This this why I think that saying an INFP is more intelligent than an INTP/J is like saying a basketball player can beat a football player in football.......... It's just not likely going to happen......

ok so when it comes to intelligence are we at a complete lost here?

both nature and nurture says that we are intelligently inferior.......

I'm wondering for any of you INFP's who have INTP/J friends or strangers ( in real life or online)....... when you have arguments and debates do they completely overwhelm you with their logic and reason? or do you at least put up a decent fight? or maybe even win?

( i think our strong point may be in debates that require emotion instead of logic)


EDIT: by INFP I mean our cognitive functions...... If you are INFP you'd find it insanely energy consuming and very uncomfortable in using the thinking functions( it would also be an insanely weak function). That is what leads me to think INFP's will inevitably be inferior intelligently.

A perfect example is that sometimes I'll be using my dominate function (Fi) and then I'll imagine it being (Ti or Ni). I'd be a fucking genius lol .

Whenever I try to use Ti and Ni it's likely very weak and energy consuming and even after I spent all my energy the function is still weak......

If I felt as good and comfortable using Ti or Ni as I do when using Fi then the knowledge and intelligence I imagine myself having is insane.......
 

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Well, I don't think we're intellectually inferior to INTPs and INTJs based on the cognitive functions at all. It really all depends on the person. I'm sure there are INTPs and INTJs who are smarter than me, and I'm sure there are some who are less so. When it comes to debating I tend not to do very well at all IRL because I generally find it very hard to express my points. I don't know I just sort of like freeze up and can't really contribute anything meaningful. Online it's a lot easier because I have time to think things through, but I probably look really stupid when it comes to debating in person.
 

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I believe there are many different types of intellect. The only thing is that society at large only seems to care about a couple of them...

Thus, I do not think we are intellectually inferior at all.
 

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Hellllll no. INTJs and INTPs have different types of intelligence from you and might be better at showing it off, but I know plenty of genius INFPs. They're not the best in an organized school system, but then again, neither are INTPs. INFPs are scary smart emotionally, but they're also extremely logical once they harness that bottom Te function.

My INFP sister, for example, is terrifyingly smart. And honestly, cognitive functions have nothing to do with intelligence- all the functions are different types of intelligence, and it just depends on how you use them.

aka I love INFPs, don't bash on yoselves <3
 

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I disagree with the idea that all INTPs who claim to be INTPs are INTPs.
It seems to give you an innate disposition to logic doesn't it?
Is an INFP innately attuned to morality?
Anyway, INFPs are the past have shown quite a background of intelligence, notice Thoreau and Orwell.
Do not worry anyway, a lot of people on the forum are being subjective idealists, which they say that objectivity doesn't really exist or isn't accessible so it doesn't matter if you are "logical, adhere to the facts, etc." It is a complicated subject in itself.
 

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I don't think intelligence necessarily relates to type. I think it varies from person to person, but in my own experience, I feel pretty on par with the INTPs I know. We can have very insightful and thoughtful discussions, and I've never had an argument with one.
 
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I dont think this is a "we" issue, but more of an individual thing. Even though INFP (along with the other INxx types) is often in the top 4 for highest average IQ among MBTI types doesn't mean every INFP is above average in intelligence. Nor does INTx types often taking the top two spots mean that all INTx individuals are smarter than all INFx types. Of course, we can question how comprehensive IQ tests are concerning intelligence anyway. But I think it illustrates the point....

Outside of MBTI communities online, I dont see the idea that INFPs are the dumb intuitive. IRL, Im never treated as stupid, rather, people can aggrandize my intelligence. Most INFPs I know are regarded by those around them as intellectual types and deep thinkers. Most do very well in academics too.

When you hear of "society" not valuing INFP style intelligence, it usually doesnt mean it is not considered intelligent. People regularly regard those who excel in arts and humanities as being very intelligent. The devaluation is usually monetary, because its not given practical value and so usually no one wants to pay much for it.
 

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I can hold my ground in a debate with my INTJ. I think I am as capable of logical reasoning and debates don't faze me as long as the other party does not offend easily and are respectful of my opinions. The ability to comprehend and wield logic with ease is not directly attributable to type imo. Intelligence varies within and outside of types.

Besides, it's a misconception to round up the INTJs and INTPs and expect them to be reasonable or own superior logic all the time; as much as it is a misconception to think of INFPs' as unable to deal with logic and hence, are intellectually inferior. I have an INTP father who can be irrational, especially when he is under a lot of pressure.
 
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I disagree with the idea that all INTPs who claim to be INTPs are INTPs.
It seems to give you an innate disposition to logic doesn't it?
Is an INFP innately attuned to morality?
Anyway, INFPs are the past have shown quite a background of intelligence, notice Thoreau and Orwell.
Do not worry anyway, a lot of people on the forum are being subjective idealists, which they say that objectivity doesn't really exist or isn't accessible so it doesn't matter if you are "logical, adhere to the facts, etc." It is a complicated subject in itself.
Surely objectivity is objectively subjective then? If you can't back up objectivity objectively?
 

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Intellect is defined through crystallized and fluid intelligence. The definition of intelligence varies but I assure you that MBTI does not account for intellect. It is true that Thinkers may be more logical, however they are not more intelligent. As for IQ tests which apparently score "intelligence", that can be debatable. In general, don't make stereotypes. N and T are not more intelligent than S and F.
 

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It's hard to compare apples and oranges. Intuitive's value different forms of communication, understanding, and reasoning. Logic is always portrayed as factual, and emotion is often conveyed as irrational or clouding. That is fiction. I've never entered a debate hoping to win, but I have entered many debates determined to find the truth and I will find it.

When emotion fills me I can connect dots easily, my thoughts are clearer, and my motivation is increased. Pictures, words, and lights are all floating. Whatever I was debating before can probably fuck off, we're now discussing something different and I'll ask why, why, why? Why does it have to be this way? Why did they do that? What if this would have happened?

I suppose nearly all of my debates end up discussing ideas, and the small details become left out. I suppose I'm lucky being able to do this, not all people enjoy discussing ideas. You can calculate 2+2=4, but you can not prove if humanity's nature is inherently good or evil.
@the401 It does not matter how intelligent you are, we're all stupid.
 

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*Ego mode* INFPs.....inferior.....when it comes to intelligence? Well. I'd better get rid of my INFP membership card then. Don't want to toot my own horn too much, but it is very rare that I meet someone who is on par with my intellect. And. I never met someone who made me feel intellectually inferior. In other words: I never felt like the stupidest person in the room.

INTJs/INTPs beating me in a debate? Pah. I eat them for breakfast. */Ego mode*

A few others already mentioned that there are different types of intelligence and that everyone is intelligent, or at least knowledgeable, in some way. I agree. Don't have anything more to add.
 

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I don't think that it's that we're less intelligent - we just cannot accept certain things objectively, and become way too fervent in protecting and defending our deep-seated ideologies. I think it's harder for some INFPs to read something they personally don't agree with and say, "Well, that's an interesting way to see it." Instead, many of us go into "WTF this person is an asshole and his opinions don't even deserve to be acknowledged!" mode. Many of us are staunch idealists.

I don't think intelligence has to do with objectiveness or subjectiveness, but general curiosity and a willingness to learn and grow - which I don't think has much to do with MBTI, but more with enneagram types. There are a large number of type 5s in the INTx community, and I think that contributes more to their perceived 'intelligence'.

It's not about how good you are at the hard sciences or how eloquently you can analyze a Sartre play. Intelligence is about a willingness to absorb, understand and grow.
 

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When you say weak thinking functions, what is your understanding of what you're referring to? INFPs are just as capable of thinking as NTs are, as is anyone. Being able to understand and comprehend subjects that require logical thinking have nothing to do with T functions. Your functions are more how you interact with environments, either internal or external, not your ability to think and understand things.

Example, I can play Sudoku and Minesweep at near record speeds. I'm able to understand how the game is played because inside my cranial cavity, I have an organ called a brain that is built to comprehend information. I can do this activity that would mistakenly be classified as a "T" activity for the same reason anyone can do it. The difference between myself and, say, an INTP is that an INTP, with dominant Ti, is more likely to become stimulated by the strategy and thought process that goes into it (hence, the way they are interacting with their internal environment by being stimulated by the process), and seek out more activities that require code breaking and pattern detection and go on to make new discoveries and formulas and eventually build a real live Death Star. And all this is not because they are able to understand things that a feeler isn't able to understand, but because it excites them and they will continuously seek out more challenges to feed Ti.
 

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I remember reading that intps tend to do the best on intelligence tests and standardized tests. Someone can fact check me if they want, but if you were to look at that measure then the answer would be yes.

But I agree with everyone else - there are many types of intelligences. In the real world, I feel dumb alot due to lack of social intelligence.
 

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Hellllll no. INTJs and INTPs have different types of intelligence from you and might be better at showing it off, but I know plenty of genius INFPs. They're not the best in an organized school system, but then again, neither are INTPs. INFPs are scary smart emotionally, but they're also extremely logical once they harness that bottom Te function.

My INFP sister, for example, is terrifyingly smart. And honestly, cognitive functions have nothing to do with intelligence- all the functions are different types of intelligence, and it just depends on how you use them.

aka I love INFPs, don't bash on yoselves <3
Aawwws, thank you and I love you too <3

and also agree with what you said.

If I try to build my argument based on Ti or Te I'll definitely lose to an INTX because they're obviously better when it comes to using those functions. But if I use my Fi or Ne I can easily win any debate we have. Fi is a powerful function, I wonder why even most of the INFPs here seem to think that it's some sort of mess of emotions.


both nature and nurture says that we are intelligently inferior.......
Wut? :D
 

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I mean, my INTP dad and ISTP brother can whip my butt at snapping together logical arguments. But I can whip their butts at considering the humanistic side of things.

FWIW, I don't tend to struggle with T systems once I've learned them - it might just take me a little longer to connect those logical dots. Also, Ts might generally be better at quickly understanding and interpreting, but I find that a great strength of mine comes in communicating those processes to other people. When I was little, I pictured myself as a medical and environmental science communicator, translating technical lingo into broadcasts on the radio that laypeople could understand. I think that is still a good representation of my T-F skill crossover.

As for INTP intelligence - my dad is incredible at learning with and working with systems, like musical scales and medical knowledge. He takes machinery and electronics apart and puts them back together for curiosity and fun. I think he would beat me on an IQ test. But I think I would beat him on EQ. ;)
 

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No. Intelligence is not quantified by NT standards, there are many kinds and just because Ne orderliness and logical structure isn'tmy strongest suit, it doesn't mean I cannot be perfectly logical. Yes, I struggle with expressing ideas, finding the right words especially when it comes to feelings and subjective matters and often I let my own judgement have the best of me.

But plenty of INTJs and INTPs can be just as clumsy, NT =/= infallibility.
Also what about STs (remove the D and you won't have any STDs ;D)?
Are they not logical? They use strong thinking functions too.

There's an overglorification of NT intellect or NF sensitivity when that's not the case. Functions can expose your strongest and weakest cognitive patterns and motivations but it's all up to the individual.

INFPs are smart.
Plenty of brilliant artists, musicians, writers, philosophers, revolutionaries and scientists shared our type.
 
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