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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
Being able to understand and comprehend subjects that require logical thinking have nothing to do with T functions. Your functions are more how you interact with environments, either internal or external, not your ability to think and understand things.
i'd have to disagree with that, surely there has been research that you can "practice to get better" BUT Ti is

"Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.[15] Ti is calm, articulate, and aware of the forces that bind reality together. As introverted thinkers, INTPs spend the majority of their time and energy ordering the interior, logical world of principles and generalizations in an effort to understand."

INTP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and as far as the MBTI says it is the ONLY function that allows us to do this.

being an INFP our Ti is very weak it's our 8th function in the shadow functions...... we don't even use it unless we are in stress......

what you are describing is most likely Te that you have harnessed and learned to use.

now surely there are genius INFP's ( there are ALWAYS exceptions in topics like these) however they will be an genius in most things that prob require Te .

stuff that requires Ti will still be hard on them.( yes exceptions exist for this too)

also, like what josh man said there is a reason why NT's score higher in the charts........

EDIT: i'd also like to add Dr dario's research.

his research says personality type is a LOT more than just preference of brain region. They use their brains in fundamentally different ways.
 

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I very much enjoy intellectual debates I can have with INTPs and INTJs, because they stimulate my Ne. I do like to brainstorm with such types and I am clear and loud about my own opinions. When it comes to intellectualism, you can hardly find me being insecure. I put the most trust into my knowledge and my words to win a lot of arguments with other people. INFPs can be quite smart.
 

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Not to sound full of myself but I have an INTP friend who I think I am more intelligent (or perhaps informed) than. His propensity for logical reasoning may come more naturally to him but I feel I've developed my "inferior" thinking function more strongly than his dominant Ti, as I'm generally very curious about the world and accumulate a lot of knowledge. I also have very strong Ne, which can make people seem smart,

Who knows, maybe if he really applied himself he'd have the potential to run laps around me intellectually but I think I also have a stronger drive to learn and exercise my reasoning.
 

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I usually don't do too well in debates because I think of all the ways my point could be deconstructed and/or misconstrued, try to figure out all the possible responses to my point, and by the time I'm done doing that, I've decided my point isn't valid, or it's just emotional and therefore has no value, or the debate has moved on to something completely different anyway.
I do enjoy a good discussion if I feel like the point of it is to understand different points of view rather than having it be about who's right and who's wrong, rather than being about seeing who can change the other person's mind the fastest. Some people, I won't debate with because I get the impression that the only reason they would want to know my point of view is so they can figure out how to bludgeon me into changing it.
 

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I usually don't do too well in debates because I think of all the ways my point could be deconstructed and/or misconstrued, try to figure out all the possible responses to my point, and by the time I'm done doing that, I've decided my point isn't valid, or it's just emotional and therefore has no value, or the debate has moved on to something completely different anyway.
I do enjoy a good discussion if I feel like the point of it is to understand different points of view rather than having it be about who's right and who's wrong, rather than being about seeing who can change the other person's mind the fastest. Some people, I won't debate with because I get the impression that the only reason they would want to know my point of view is so they can figure out how to bludgeon me into changing it.
I tend to over process things as well, which is why I do better discussing things online but I'm also " highly sensitive"/HSP and the social stimulation of being face to face with someone can sometimes paralyze my brain and make my thinking scattered.

I generally don't actively debate but rather just pose a bunch of open questions that might force a person to examine their viewpoint more deeply.
 

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Nah. My INTP/J friends say that my intelligence is way above their league. I win arguments with them most of the time. As many others have pointed out, functions don't dictate intelligence. But yeah. It drains the energy out of me because I'm not used to situations like that. But it doesn't necessarily impair my reasoning. So no. We're not inferior at all. I think we're just prone to being more... "emotional" (dafuq? :p) when the topic gets uncomfortable. Haha.

Oh. And a lot of times, they even ask for my help with difficult stuff at school. Dunno why.

Weird. 15 years of age and I've already developed my Te. Probably because of all the reflection I do when I'm not doing anything. School definitely trained me to collect my normally messy thoughts. (and still writin' and makin' art and music, yo!).

Lastly, like everyone else here, I strongly believe that it all depends on the individual.

Weee! :laughing:
 

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what you are describing is most likely Te that you have harnessed and learned to use.

now surely there are genius INFP's ( there are ALWAYS exceptions in topics like these) however they will be an genius in most things that prob require Te.
Therein lies the misconception, or at least confusion, that people make regarding T and F functions. Solving Sudoku puzzles or playing Minesweep at warp speed having nothing to do with Te. Te is creating objective order, structure and congruency with the external environment. For instance, if I was a computer programmer, my programming knowledge in itself has nothing to do with being a T or an F. That's just knowledge. Someone with weak Te can program just as well as someone with strong Te because being able to understand and create code has nothing to do with T or F. The difference would be the strong Te would be the one who comes to work everyday and is actively involved with ensuring workflow is running efficiently, everyone is on the same page and the main objective of the entire group is being reached. Basically, they are creating structure, order and congruency in their external environment. In reality, I have an exceptionally weak Te. Structure, order and congruency in my external environment is nonexistent.

In regards to Ti, a Ti will spend a lot of time researching and dissecting subjects that it finds interesting and stimulating. A Ti can tell me all about their discoveries and ideas and I'm perfectly able to follow and understand what they're saying because being able to comprehend information, again, isn't related to T or F. The Ti was interested and stimulated by a certain subjects and actively sought out more information on it. A non-Ti can be just as capable of digesting the same information, they just simply weren't interested in seeking it out to the degree that Ti was.

But again, this ties into the misconception between what thinking and feeling (in the Jungian sense) actually means. We have a general understanding since childhood of what the words "thinking" and "feeling" mean, but they do not coincide with Jungian terms. For instance, it's common to associate anything to do with numbers as thinking and anything to do with art as feeling. But that doesn't explain the common instance of crossover between the two. MBTI functions denote simply a mindset rather than actual ability. It would be much easier if he had named them something else so we wouldn't associate our previous understanding with the terms. We could more easily disassociate our predetermined definitions of thinking and feeling if Jung had chose to use, say, the terms strawberries and pinecones.
 

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I think these sorts of questions are really kind of harmful and lead to narrow ways of thinking about things. Even though you may consider the various facets of such a measurement, the very question sort of leads to thoughts like that one type may be superior to another. I just think that's really bad territory.

Now, if we look at a field like, say, physics and examine the luminaries, it's all NTs. So what does that say? To me, it just says that certain types are more naturally suited for specific roles. If NTs were the best, why are there so few of them? I would think that if they are truly superior, that would obviate the need for the other types — all but the NTs would become extinct in the long run. Yet, NTs are relatively rare. They excel at some things, but their skills and intelligence are ultimately limited. If humanity were to be missing any type, we would be missing something essential. So this measurement is clearly not a simple, one-dimensional "dumb–smart" scale. You could attack my premise, for sure — I can imagine all sorts of rebuttals, and Ne types especially could throw all sorts of stuff at it — but no matter how many different possibilities I run through in my head, I always come back to this thought that these other types just do a lot of things better than NTs do.

Now, looking at individuals on case-by-case basis, obviously there are differences within the types. But my personal experience with other INTPs is that, quite honestly, I never learn anything from them. I don't even seem to be able to build ideas with them or get anywhere with them intellectually. I have to think that I've just had bad luck. But my experiences have been quite bad with them. INFPs, on the other hand, have taught me a lot. My INFP friends have had insights I don't think I would have ever have had on my own. These are things which have been immensely valuable to me, and I think there's a lot more to learn there, as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Therein lies the misconception, or at least confusion, that people make regarding T and F functions. Solving Sudoku puzzles or playing Minesweep at warp speed having nothing to do with Te. Te is creating objective order, structure and congruency with the external environment. For instance, if I was a computer programmer, my programming knowledge in itself has nothing to do with being a T or an F. That's just knowledge.
yea sorry, i was ignorant in saying that was Te( i didn't even fully know what Te was). Anyways regarding your computer programming example. yes that is true however there will be a HUGE difference between how an F function operates vs a T function.

the Fi dom operates according to his feelings and the Ti operates according to thinking.

we all have the default ability to think...... that is of course true. but having a strong T function enables us to excel at thinking......

imo mindset kind of determines actual ability ( again there is exceptions) (dr Nardi's research says it is way than just simply "preference of brain region")

that's like saying I'm going to use a plastic bat instead of a metal one......... yes you are doing the same things however the results won't be the same simply because one is weaker than the other.

i think saying MBTI types judge intelligence is one of the things people don't want to admit because of sounding shallow or anything. but i haven't checked but i think there is a reason why INTP's/Js score the highest in some tests
 

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I could say it again and again and again, your MBTI type does not equate to intelligence.

I don't really think arguing would be a good point to define intelligence; however you do you should be defined as intelligence.

Is this related to the thread you made about your grades and not being motivated to succeed in class?
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I could say it again and again and again, your MBTI type does not equate to intelligence.

I don't really think arguing would be a good point to define intelligence; however you do you should be defined as intelligence.

Is this related to the thread you made about your grades and not being motivated to succeed in class?
no lol. grades have nothing to do with intelligence. ANY retard can get straight A's with enough studying.

I'm doing just fine........ the other thread was because i got kind of emotional because of what happened.......

also: it makes sense to say that personality ITSELF does not equate to intelligence

however, there is hints sayings that most NT's are usually very intelligent. therefore that's saying that most NT's do have an innate ability to be a genius ( someone who is very intelligent.)
 

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no lol. grades have nothing to do with intelligence. ANY retard can get straight A's with enough studying.

I'm doing just fine........ the other thread was because i got kind of emotional because of what happened.......
I would advice you not to use that word, again, many forum members could have a relative who is clinically retarded and may find it offensive.

Alright, good.
Again though, everyone has qualities they can bring to the table, it's just a matter of figuring out what works and doesn't work.
 

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Nope not at all in any way. We have the potential to be just as much an intellectual as any other type, we'll just probably come at things from a slightly different angel. Just like an INTJ will compared to an INTP or INFJ. I 'think' of it like this, typically if its something an INFP holds dear, they will come at it with so much *conviction* it'll seem overly emotional to some people and they may consider it distracting, or it may move people and sway their opinion. That's something I can see an INFP doing 'naturally' that doesn't mean they aren't right or any less of a "thinker". Just go about it in a different way.
 

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Well, I don't think we're intellectually inferior to INTPs and INTJs based on the cognitive functions at all. It really all depends on the person. I'm sure there are INTPs and INTJs who are smarter than me, and I'm sure there are some who are less so. When it comes to debating I tend not to do very well at all IRL because I generally find it very hard to express my points. I don't know I just sort of like freeze up and can't really contribute anything meaningful. Online it's a lot easier because I have time to think things through, but I probably look really stupid when it comes to debating in person.
when it comes to statistics, they seem to have more smarties...
 

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Read it and weep... :geek: (emphasis below is mine, of course. I like colors what can I say)

On page 66 of Isabel Briggs Myers' book Gifts Differing it says...

"...Conventional measures of mental ability, such as intelligence tests and scholarship, show some of the very highest records belonging to INFP and INFJ types, who relegate thinking to last place or next to last. The preference for thinking appears to have far less intellectual effect than the preference for intuition, even in some technical fields, such as scientific research, where it's influence was expected to be most important..."

from page 43 of her book...
"...People in the NT column focus on the possibilities and the principles involved in their solution. Inhabitants of the IN quadrant are the most intellectual, with a capacity for seeing farther into the unknown than most people can penetrate..."

from page 159 of her book...
"...the net result of this self-selection is that high school graduates with all four of the predisposing preferences, INFPs, are at least four times as likely to enter medical school as classmates with the four opposite preferences, ESTJs. The combination of intuition and feeling apparently furnished the strongest motivation, perhaps because medicine presents problems to solve for the benefit of people..."

from page 97 of her book...
"...The confidence of the introverted feeling types in their way of life should not be diminished at all because it does not look as masterful as that of the opposite types, those who depend on extroversion instead of introversion, or thinking instead of feeling, or judgment instead of perception, or even those who combine all three, like extroverted thinkers who outwardly appear to be the most self-confident of all the types. The introverted feeling types have their own masteries. They can accomplish certain things which others cannot, and the value of their contributions is second to none. Realization of the diverse excellences of the various types, whereby the difference between one type and another type is seen as a virtue rather than a defect, should strengthen their trust in their own gifts. It should also partially relieve the conflict that they are likely to feel when they cannot agree with those whom they love or admire..."

If interested here are some other related threads:


 

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I just looked at some graphs from a seach of "mbti" IQ (know intelligence is more complicated than IQ, but more difficult to find comparable facts on), and of course you can only see how it looks as a group, any esfj might have a higher IQ than any intp, the tendency is as a group. But if the graphs where somewhat correct it is still interesting that it seemed like the type with most geniuses was not the same as the one with most gifted for example, and it also depend if you look at the percentage within each type, or percentage of geniuses who are what type. According to one diagram istj had one of the largest chunks of the geniuses for example, though not that large a part of the istjs were geniuses, but a lot of people are istjs, so there are still many istj geniuses. So it is a bit complicated, and in the end it depends on the individual of course.

Except for IQ there are other things that can be considered intelligence. Often when I meet people I think are likely more intelligent than me, who seem to be able to think more clearly and coherently about things than me, understand and figure out things I might not, I often seem to be able to contribute with some breadth to discussions, angles they have not considered, additional aspects. And they can help me untangle those many aspects in turn, give it back more ordered and clearer.

Two combinations of intelligences that seem quite rare, is
-linguistic+theory of mind+comprehension combined with matematic+statistic (these are the two parts of the higher education test where I live, and though quite a lot of people get the highest score on one of them, it is very rare to get so on both)
and
-able to analyse and process clearly and orderly and figure out at a high level, combined with as high a level of openness to association and possibilities (without it going down towards crazy territory)
 
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