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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey, guys.

It just occured to me how other types usually see SPs as "rough" or "aggressive" which was a bit weird to me at the beginning cause I didn´t see myself that way. I think it especially comes from other Fe types - in my experience ENFJ and ISFJ. My ISFJ grandmother can´t stand my ESTP godmother because she is "rude" and "rough". Evan I get sometimes such feedback. And tbh, sometimes I get annoyed by overly nice or sensitive people. I feel like one has to be tough. So, do you guys have the same experience?
 

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In my experience, the STPs especially like to stomp over people and don't mind chocking everyone in the process.
 

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I have seen/met rough SFPs as well as STPs.

But then you have the rare non-rough STP (see: Grace Helbig).

She is a unicorn though. Like the other 99% of SPs are seriously rough.

This is just my perception, though. Maybe you have a different opinion on what rough means.

I think butch is a more accurate way to describe it. Doesn't necessarily have to be a butch personality. Could be butch mannerisms or style.

But the butchness is present in almost all of them.

When I think ESTP, I think Chelsea Handler. Her style isn't so much butch as her personality is. She is super raunchy. (love her to pieces).


When I think ISFP, I think of someone like NibblesOfficial. Seriously butch as hell. Personality and style. KatrinBerndt is another good example. GothAlice is another good example. Very tough people. They have this bulldog-ish attitude about them.

ESFP would be like TrishaPaytas (really great example). She's not butch but definitely rough. She's very carnal, visceral. Slutty perhaps is a more common term for it. But whatever. :)

Though, an ESFP who doesn't seem, to me, to be rough is JimChapman. (at least I assume he's an ESFP. He seems to me to be very Se/Fi).

And actually I notice that quite a bit with ESFP males. They aren't really rough so much as they are gay. Even the straight ones.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Hmm...interesting. Personally, I find NTs and STJs more aggressive. Like, ENTPs can be really aggressive and ESTJs as well. I generally don´t have a problem with ESTPs...but maybe it´s because we both use Se.

I don´t really consider myself butch....in fact I think I´m really feminine....and others have told me I´m very feminine and a "typical women" .And I like being a women, lol. Although I do hang out with guys a lot and an INTJ friend told me he sometimes thinks I´m a guy lol :laughing:
 

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Any idea what Grace Helbig's enneagram type is? I was looking into her and she claims to be an introvert, but seems extroverted to me. I relate to her mannerisms, but I'm not that talkative.
 

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Yeah, according to my own mother I have a way of breaking bad news in the most abrasive way possible.
 

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It's all a matter of perspective. I'd find extremely nosy people as more or less the same 'roughness' as more 'rebellious' or 'boisterous' types. Others could say the same about NTs because of their brutal honesty and lucidity in thought (and for some of them, not giving a fuck about people's opinions).

Too much feels could be overbearing, too authoritarian could be, too pedantic could be, etc.
 

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Hey, guys.

It just occured to me how other types usually see SPs as "rough" or "aggressive" which was a bit weird to me at the beginning cause I didn´t see myself that way. I think it especially comes from other Fe types - in my experience ENFJ and ISFJ. My ISFJ grandmother can´t stand my ESTP godmother because she is "rude" and "rough".
I have an ISFP friend, she is the sweetest person is the world, yet she can be as tough as a rock when her values are concerned. She complained me once about her mother's desire to be emotionally close to her. I theorize that you are a Fi user, and your feeling judgement is introverted, so sometimes it may be difficult for you to naturally integrate into a Fe atmosphere. (I am a primary Ti user, and a lot of the times I feel miserable in a Te atmosphere of rules and regulations. bleh)

Regarding "all SPs are tough / aggressive" ... I'm not so sure. My ESFP dad is a social charmer, very diplomatic. I get so jealous because I'm an ISTP girl, and I am more comfortable with logic than people. Presumably women are "supposed to" be better with people than logic. Many times I got my ass bitten up (not literally lol) for blurting out a logical truth. I would call myself "rough", but I'm trying to be more diplomatic. More often than not, I have to tone down my true thoughts, otherwise people get offended or don't understand me the way I would like them to. This includes my ISFP friend too. You guys are very sensitive, lol :happy:
 

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I was watching a movie with some friends about a bunch of delinquents who went to some kind of juvie boot camp and my friend pointed at the drill instructor and said "that's you". I think that answers your question.

It was some hilariously stupid movie about Paul Bunyan killing people.

I've also been called intimidating several times and one of my proudest moments was defusing a "hostile situation" (actually a sophomore on freshman Friday planning to trash can me back in high school) by just walking toward the aggressor and barking commands at him to stand down. My more fiery side tends to surprise more intermediate acquaintances because I usually come off so sanguine and mellow and chillaxed.
 

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I think 'rough' depends on your perspective. Were you stomped on out of pure malice or stomped on because you were blocking their path?
It is always the latter. I don't think the ESTP I was thinking of was mean because he liked being mean, but because what I was telling him somehow was in the way for him, yeah.
 

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I have mostly thought this about EST types in my own life, but it's a different kind of "roughness" than the general Se SP roughness. Se has a kind of quality that quite literally takes up space or makes a visceral impact, so certain types of people might find attempts for an SP type to do these things unsettling. Fi Se will probably do it for different reasons than Ti Se, meaning in an SFP it might revolve more around either their values or "performance" as an artist, speaker, writer, etc and in the STP it may come across as completely utilitarian and rude.

I'm pretty considerate in day to day life but I can pretty much bite someone in the ass on a dime if they cross me, and in writing I've definitely played a lot with rougher or more dramatic speech for impact or the lulz. I have been told by my ESFJ sister she thinks my way of handling conflict is rough or unnecessary, but my ISFJ sister kind of quietly admires it, telling my nephew to sic auntie on his enemies because she'll get rid of them for you. I think SFP can kind of be a mix of being nice and easy going, but also having Se Te for a kind of rough side.

In fact I think there are two versions of the Southern Belle archetype, one being the ESFJ Paula Deen, well butter my butt and call me a biscuit, bless your heart, and then the more Se dom Scarlett O Hara type, or this:

T-shirt Grass Shorts Leg Play
 

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I've never been called rough but I have been called 'earthy', and I've also been told that I make swear-alternatives (like 'darn) sound worse than the real thing - that's about the extent for me Im pretty mild.
 

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Are we rough? We certainly can be. Have a look at prison stats. I think you'll find a higher percentage of SPs in there, relative to our percentage out here.



SJs are the ones who like rules not us!
 

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Since its been like the number one thing drilled at my I am going to assume I can be very rough and too hard for alot of people to deal with.

Honestly tho I think I am far more on a mission then ever that I am seeking to bulldoze anyone ever.
 

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Rough? As in blunt? Naturally yes. Otherwise, I am too cognizant of what's going on around me and I pick my words carefully... preferring to be vague or joking (when being blunt) because people are hella sensitive. I enjoy bluntness from others because it makes it easy to know what they are expressing/thinking.

I am only aggressive when provoked sufficiently. The jump from calm to anger sudden and unexpected... I have surprised people who are over-comfortable with my calm, stoic typical demeanor. Oh, and I curse a lot.
 

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I am only aggressive when provoked sufficiently. The jump from calm to anger sudden and unexpected... I have surprised people who are over-comfortable with my calm, stoic typical demeanor. Oh, and I curse a lot.
Everyone is rough at the core.
Some people just tone themselves down and soften themselves for public presentation.
I just don't bother doing that. I prefer saying fuck.
 

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I've been told that I'm 'rough' before- many have also said that I'm unintentionally harsh or hot and cold.
I naturally also have a short fuse but sometimes what I say comes out.. way more ignorant or harsh sounding than my head expected it to be, and then its like 'oh god'. I have accidentally caused many arguments by the way in which I talk.

I also get told that I'm 'rough' in terms of attitude, I have more of a "boyish-alpha" attitude apparently- but also down to earth.
With regards to prison stats, that's very true. I almost feel like that's due to certain parts of the personality not understanding and so people act that way.

I personally don't try to offend people, at all. If someone asks for a god honest opinion then they'll get one, though. I don't like to cause arguments or get in people's business for the sake of conflict~
 
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