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Not in the least
However, I do attempt to learn as much about a topic of interest as I can and also enjoy learning but I wouldn't go as far an an "Intellectual Elitist"
 

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I am not, but am in some senses, but I think in your sense and most views, I am not. I do appreciate those who take greater coneptualizing of ideas, but I find to judge them for it is the worst possible of judges. It is of the means and the ends. Some of the most intellectual and well versed in readings, lack so much. The best quality of mankind is their desire and ability to work hard. Intellectualism does not mean intelligences. It is just an interest, interests are the same. What one does, is different. Consider this, you mention forums, where we bring our philosophical A-game, that is incorrect. Forums do not ever get my A-game, my life does. The 3 previous days was my A-game, endless effort, only non work was walking to other places to work, eating, sleeping, hygene and other basics. It is in my work that I present my A game, this is meant for entertainment, already we cut out the most important prat in communication, the body language. Meaningful conversation is still a side interest, and is often best in real life, unless you cannot find it.

Which is my case for some very serious topics I wish to discuss.

Also consider your cultural and the brain washing society did on you. Ayn Rand, a very common philosopher, I already detect all ideas you think are for the most part, accepted in this society and your thoughts are in part also a product of it. The peasant who plays the video games had many other incentives and factors in decision that you too had in Ayn Rand. Many similarities, elitism on such basis proves nothing. What is tangible, what changes made on the world, is.

I too, still, because of emotional currents, feel elitism, as I wonder the way I am the way I am, which is at the core of my reasons for being here.
 

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I would think that an INTJ's least favorite subject is history. American history, moreover.
I respectfully disagree.

How can you process the culture around you if you don't understand how it came to be?

We are all affected by our present culture, like it or not, and knowing its origins can only make adapting to it easier.
 

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Gotta love Ayn Rand.
 

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There is much to respect in the Ayn Rand, I do find American History of utmost bore, for it lacks of mysticism of the ancient world, and the Byzantines of course. Its easy and boring.
It may lack the mysticism, but American history shows the ingenuity of the human mind, in my opinion. The amount of progress made since it's inception is unprecedented. Of course, I'm a sucker for productivity...
 

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It may lack the mysticism, but American history shows the ingenuity of the human mind, in my opinion. The amount of progress made since it's inception is unprecedented. Of course, I'm a sucker for productivity...
I too, am sucker for certain values and themes. It is not in progress, no matter its valuation, that any history is enjoyable, but, in my opinion, the birth, and evolution of ideas to influence todays event. Only through American history can we understand inclintations towards weaponry ownership and weakened government. In similar eastern light, only through examinations of principality feuds in Kiev and Mongolian chaos can we understanding eastern tendencies towards strong government and order. It is evolution of ideas that is most important and enjoyable, to me of course.
 

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I respectfully disagree.

How can you process the culture around you if you don't understand how it came to be?

We are all affected by our present culture, like it or not, and knowing its origins can only make adapting to it easier.
I agree that we are all affected by our present culture. But I disagree in that we have to learn of its origins in order to adapt to it. If you were transported to Laos and were forced to live there for a year, you would be able to adapt to that culture without knowing its history because the truth is: it is what it is, and knowing about its history will not change it.

History is important though if you want to learn lessons from it. But when it comes to memorizing meaningless dates, meaningless names of the stupid battles between the Natives and the Settlers and the Union and the Confederates Allies and Axis, and all the names of all the presidents of the US, the generals and chiefs of tribes, Holocaust and WWI and all other kinds of mind-numbing crap that you must know in order to pass the class... I'd rather do some other horrid things, like watch Lifetime.
 

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I am definately an intellectual elitist, which is not necassarily a bad thing in certain situaions. I was thinking about not applying to Cambridge and Oxford because of the amount of public school people that went there. I thought I didn't fit into that catergory. But knowing now that Oxbridge have moved on with the times, if I was to be accepted there in March, I would be the biggest academic snob ever. The institute itself will only heighten my already high opinion in intellect - that "we" deserve to be in a special league and therefore superior. Thinking like that is ignorant though and I'm trying to change that.

At school, I often show little or no regard for the teachers who I feel know less than they should about the subject they teacher. My English Literature teacher, I believe doesn't have the analytical capabilities to be teaching me the works of Mary Shelly and therefore I often do the work myself and laugh when I see her attempting to teach.

However, I do take into consideration people's strengths and often admire in them, what I cannot achieve. So that's me trying to tame the elitism.
 

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Maybe it's all a language subtlety escaping me as english isn't my native language, but it seems to me that a lot of people here are mistaking elitism with being part of the elite. The latter means being at the top of the scale, while the former is looking down upon anyone further down - no matter how high (or low) the elitist himself is on that scale. One does not have to have achieved amazing things to be an elitist, and sadly more often than not they haven't (and probably never won't).

I do dislike people happily wallowing into their mediocrity and consciously refusing to grow, but I think elitism is even worse. Saying "it makes me angry to see how people are dumb and I'm an elitist" is bullshit, IMO one doesn't have the right to be angry about something if s/he doesn't try to do anything about it - either you get up and do something, or you don't and you STFU. The thing is that some of these people who refuse to expand their mind actually don't even realize it, and if there isn't a more enlightened person to make them realize it, it just won't happen by itself.
Some people are able to learn by themselves and that's great, and some others need teaching and guidance - and that's fine too. Because this is the only way to make everyone progress and grow just not as individuals, but as a community. I'd much rather spend a day teaching a dumb but willing to learn person than brain-masturbating on our supposedly superior intellect and knowledge with a smarter one.
 

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Maybe it's all a language subtlety escaping me as english isn't my native language, but it seems to me that a lot of people here are mistaking elitism with being part of the elite. The latter means being at the top of the scale, while the former is looking down upon anyone further down - no matter how high (or low) the elitist himself is on that scale. One does not have to have achieved amazing things to be an elitist, and sadly more often than not they haven't (and probably never won't).

I do dislike people happily wallowing into their mediocrity and consciously refusing to grow, but I think elitism is even worse. Saying "it makes me angry to see how people are dumb and I'm an elitist" is bullshit, IMO one doesn't have the right to be angry about something if s/he doesn't try to do anything about it - either you get up and do something, or you don't and you STFU. The thing is that some of these people who refuse to expand their mind actually don't even realize it, and if there isn't a more enlightened person to make them realize it, it just won't happen by itself.
Some people are able to learn by themselves and that's great, and some others need teaching and guidance - and that's fine too. Because this is the only way to make everyone progress and grow just not as individuals, but as a community. I'd much rather spend a day teaching a dumb but willing to learn person than brain-masturbating on our supposedly superior intellect and knowledge with a smarter one.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
 

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I agree that we are all affected by our present culture. But I disagree in that we have to learn of its origins in order to adapt to it. If you were transported to Laos and were forced to live there for a year, you would be able to adapt to that culture without knowing its history because the truth is: it is what it is, and knowing about its history will not change it.

History is important though if you want to learn lessons from it. But when it comes to memorizing meaningless dates, meaningless names of the stupid battles between the Natives and the Settlers and the Union and the Confederates Allies and Axis, and all the names of all the presidents of the US, the generals and chiefs of tribes, Holocaust and WWI and all other kinds of mind-numbing crap that you must know in order to pass the class... I'd rather do some other horrid things, like watch Lifetime.
Without splitting hairs on the word "adapt", I am suggesting that the only way we function in our present culture is by recognizing how the previous culture led us to this place.

IOW, those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. If INTJs don't like wasting time or making unnecessary mistakes, we should embrace how we "got here from there."

Watch Lifetime and cry quietly if you want. But consider that the fallout from WWI and the Holocaust have an impact on us today. The most recent violence in the Balkans and the entire state of Israel are direct results of those events.
 

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Without splitting hairs on the word "adapt", I am suggesting that the only way we function in our present culture is by recognizing how the previous culture led us to this place.

IOW, those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. If INTJs don't like wasting time or making unnecessary mistakes, we should embrace how we "got here from there."

Watch Lifetime and cry quietly if you want. But consider that the fallout from WWI and the Holocaust have an impact on us today. The most recent violence in the Balkans and the entire state of Israel are direct results of those events.
:bored: Like I said, learning lessons from history is different than actually memorizing it... Do kids who grow up in today's culture analyze how it came to be by examining previous cultures and recognizing patterns and differences from past generations to present generations? NO.

As a matter of fact, consider this: what would happen if kids growing up did not learn about the history of the Balkans and Israel but saw the situation as it is in the PRESENT, which is the most important state. Wouldn't they be able to work out solutions to those problems?

Furthermore, WWI and the Holocaust happened over 60 years ago, it is time to move on. If you would like to keep those events close to your heart then you might as well add all of the culture-changing conflicts to that list, of which there are many. Personally, I believe that there are bigger things to worry about.
 

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Personally I love history. It's just fun to read and being more of an intuitive learner, I trust that I am learning lessons both implicitly and explicitly. I was that kid, the one who thought it would be fun to memorize, outside of class, the US presidents in order and relished having to memorize the 50 states and capitals. Adding more data to the "bank" from which to draw inferences is never a bad thing.


As a matter of fact, consider this: what would happen if kids growing up did not learn about the history of the Balkans and Israel but saw the situation as it is in the PRESENT, which is the most important state. Wouldn't they be able to work out solutions to those problems?


They would be utterly defeated in their attempts to solve it. I am assuming by kids, you mean American kids. If it were possible to filter out or dilute the hate from one generation to the next for Israeli and Arab kids then it might be possible. It's happening now in Korea. Japanese colonization left a very bitter taste in the mouths of those who experienced it and so the older generation of Koreans hate the Japanese (they call them "little bastards"). The younger generation loves Japan; loves Tokyo; loves Japanese fashion. But an American who tried to change the perception of older Koreans towards the Japanese would be blind, deaf, and dumb if he did not understand the sources of conflict.

I've finished reading the Robert Greene series (48 Laws of Power, The Art of Seduction, and The 33 Strategies of War) and I highly recommend them to anyone who enjoys history and literature. His books are good examples of how to interpret lessons from the past.
 

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Well, I think people believe NTs are intellectual elitists because some NTs think they are "intellectually superior" simply because they are NTs. :frustrating: Some of them just can't grasp that being a NT does not make you more intelligent than others. It simply means that they are traditionally intelligent.
 

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No.

Am I intelligent? I like to think so.
Do I think more people should care about intellectual pursuits? Yes.
But am I really better than anyone else for this? Of course not.

If you're intelligent and can get things done, I can respect you for that. But if you have despicable character, don't expect anyone to like you.
 

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Actually, those who are at the top are mostly very humble. It's only at management level 7 or so that people think they have something to brag about.
 

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No I'm not. I'm going to copy DarkestHour by saying, I don't have anything to be elitist about.

Also, I don't believe INTJs, or NTs, are inherently intelligent.

Do I think more people should care about intellectual pursuits? Yes.
But am I really better than anyone else for this? Of course not.

If you're intelligent and can get things done, I can respect you for that. But if you have despicable character, don't expect anyone to like you.
This too.
 
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