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Which would cause more grief

  • I am an F and a break up would cause more grief

    Votes: 7 38.9%
  • I am F and the rejection of a job position would cause more grief

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • I am T and a break up would cause more grief

    Votes: 7 38.9%
  • I am T and the rejection of a job position would cause more grief

    Votes: 2 11.1%
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Discussion Starter #1
A. Succeed if you're doing good professionally everything else seems to come together or if you're are doing good in your personal life you will thrive better in the other aspects of life? Yes of course most people seek to harmonize these various aspects. The questions is more so if you HAVE to pick which direction can propel and influence the success of the other aspects of your life?

B. WHICH HAVING to choose would make you more likely to cry? (Maybe you would't cry) but more likely to have tremendous amounts of saddness or grief... Someone breaking up with you, or losing or not getting a position you were really hopeful for? I am curious about if answers to this are related to T vs F at all so I will make a poll as well.
 

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It largely depends on my level of emotional investment.

I tried starting my own business. It failed. I lost not only time, money and energy but some pride. Plus my business partner betrayed me. That was rough. It was comparable to a romantic break up. Making that comparison suggests I view romantic disappointment as being harder. Not getting a position I desire is not such a big deal either because I don鈥檛 get my hopes up.

I鈥檝e also come out of a relationship THRILLED to be single again. But I鈥檝e gotten stuck in longing for years, which is more about a fantasy, and it鈥檚 a different kind of disappointment.

Generally Id say that romantic disappointment is harder. Probably because I don鈥檛 invest a lot of myself into work XD .

I also feel more confident to take care of myself financially. I鈥檝e been through hard times, and I feel like I am pretty good at hustling when need be. I am far less confident in romance. I am perpetually single and it seems like the planets align when I meet someone I like, it鈥檚 mutual and it actually progresses into a relationship. I suppose it鈥檚 the scarcity and sense of competency aspects.
 

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you know what, i may have voted wrong


i remember quite some griefs over break ups, even though they're always my decision, sometimes they can hunt me for many months


people who i don't care for... good riddance


job refusal, hmmm, i guess if i really wanted the job, then i will get upset about it, otherwise, i will just be relieved if i didn't care enough about the new job
 

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Both would affect my emotional-states in distinct ways; emotion is absent within neither. Rejection(s) via the professional / career / job-related criteria just makes me more motivated and/or energized - if not, opens opportunities elsewhere.

As for a romantic break-up; I reckon I would be more emotionally distraught here. And with the former, more likely to experience emotionally vacancy.

In other word(s), strong emotion(s) influencing sadness is more likely to make me 'cry', than a dispiriting disappointment. Although, both I find emotionally distressing and/or frustrating in [some degree].
 

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I do not care for specific job positions. I am following a path where I put much more importance on my skills and experiences. Any position I take is temporary and optional. Any single opportunity is just that - one of many. What motivates me for performance and reliability is not fear for position, but professional pride and reputation.

Personal relationships are emotionally more investing.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
While I prefer to harmonize ideally.

I notice that if I am failing professionally speaking I tend to have lower self esteem and be flailing in other aspects of life where it is almost a trickle effect. When I say failing I simply mean no major break in objective which in any of my cases has not been so much to ladder climb but the pursuit of basic security. When those needs aren't met at a basic level I can get super disparaged. It effects many other aspects of my life then. I mean I still solider on. Just saying it actually has more of a consequential visible effect on the wellness of my life in other aspects. That is not to say a break up can't break my heart. My heart has broke for sure 2xs in life. But even in those cases as devastating as those experiences were I seem to maybe compartmentalize that in a way where it is so deep and internal it's not at least visibly outwardly causing destruction to my life. Again this does not mean it does not effect me, it simply means that the event of a break up is going to take on less of stressful toll to the universal wellness of my life than if I have job security and am thriving there.

I have totally cried btw after not getting jobs. I mean not like a shit show visible to everyone. But it can be very nerve racking to try and support a family off an adequate wage. I think when I have cried over this it hasn't been because I don't care about romance. But maybe just a basic instinct to provide the best I can for my young, I think maybe exhaustion as well has onset some tears of frustration. I sobbed really happy when I got better news about a job recent too.

I just notice if I am doing okay professionally which doesn't have to be anything elaborate just sufficient, I thrive in other areas of life generally speaking. I guess I need to take pride in things being secure. More so than say a success. And for me this starts with survival and job security. Interestingly this need I have conflicts with apart of me that loves to leap and experience things. I do think after maybe taking a few professional risks which backfired and set me back it put some of this into perspective for me. I have however definitely seen people who do better the opposite way, if their personal or romantic life are in order that's when they thrive more in the other aspects of life. A very specific friend of mine almost professionally self sabotages not just stays but actually reverts backwards from a position she has been very successful at and would actually be higher without even climbing anything if she kept her personal life separated. She literally starts to self sabotage if her personal life is failing.

Just random observations of people and behavior and differences and similarities

I don't know maybe that's weird.
 

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I was first most devastated by the TYPICAL expectations of men. So jobs were most important. Being a man was sort of required that way for me first. I dated and had relationships, but, like some of what you said, if the job was not there, I didn't feel solid and real yet and a ghost cannot have a relationship, even though they might try in good faith.

Then I was motivated by the TYPICAL expectations of men again. I was always the best at what I did where I did it. The job thing was a joke to me. I became almost absurdly confident in job-finding. Large raises every year, companies bidding over me, it was easy. Women, although they had always been there and interested were harder for me. Tempering myself in another person was not simple as I was demanding and extremely capable, but not TYPICAL in most other ways (ENTP).

Then I got the hang of relationships and they also started to flow easily and almost too fast. I discovered that again I was doing very well and yet my outlier status made me unlikely to find the relationship I really genuinely wanted.

In general then I was TOO MUCH for employers, and TOO MUCH for women, high maintenance I guess, for lack of a better term.

Now, I literally care very little for employers or women unless my general kindness and effort are balanced on the other side. And ... they are not. I noticed that in both relationships I was the capable and the giver of like moral aims and just effort in general. The employers and women were ... spoiled, like ... all of them.

And so here we are.

I am T and really, I do not get upset by either ending of a relationship.

In the past women I foolishly cared too much for, given their lack of balance towards me, was more devastating, as many have said, due to the greater emotional investment I had chosen to make (and they had not). Of course there were handfuls of crazy in there as well deeply invested in me when my red flags were preventing me making the investment. Those cases were reliefs to end.
 
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A. I think everything else seems to come together when I'm doing well professionally. It took me a long time to pick a direction, but the more I think about my life, the more I think I am happier and more productive in all areas of my life when my vocation/education/career is going well. Right now is a tricky time for me because I am arguably doing "well" at my job in terms of being considered for upward mobility but I am feeling very drained, and my outside life is decent but not great. It seems like work either drains or energizes me a lot and the rest of my life responds accordingly.

B. Probably not getting the position. I guess that's a surprising answer for a kind of fluffy NFP. But I'm also really picky about people and don't have much of a hard time with shutting them out. If someone I feel that deeply for dumps me, I'm going to immediately chase them down and throw my whole self into setting things straight with them - I'm going to give it 110% - so if that still doesn't work out then it's just not going to happen. Job prospects on the other hand - that's some kind of shimmering, nascent future hope. It's not the same "it will work or it won't". That's "I can almost definitely make this work if you give me the chance". So that's more crushing in a way.
 

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I am INTP.
A. I need to feel professionally efficient to put in order the other areas of my life. Before finding a stable job, even if I felt excellent about my social life the financial/career concern was always there. I started to become more comfortable in pursuing my other interests after gaining some financial security, too.
B. However, a break up definitely causes me more grief and depressive mood than the other option.
 

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in my late 20's I started a business with 3 partners, and eventually they voted me off the island.
In my early 40's I divorced. Of the two, they were both devastating, but the latter had my kids involved, so that made it so much worse.

Recently I had a professional deal fall through. It fucked me up pretty bad. In my face, I'm a failure. Depression, crawled into a hole.

A couple of years ago I fell in love with a fabulous lady, which didn't work out. It was a long, slow road to normalcy, but I learned so much, and she was gracious, but it took a while for my heart to disengage.

They are different, but the romantic rocks my world quite a bit more than the job any more.
 

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Now, I literally care very little for employers or women unless my general kindness and effort are balanced on the other side. And ... they are not. I noticed that in both relationships I was the capable and the giver of like moral aims and just effort in general. The employers and women were ... spoiled, like ... all of them.
And so here we are.
I am T and really, I do not get upset by either ending of a relationship.
Interesting. Was it you, series0, who recommended others to be passionate, put their hearts on their sleeves and merge with the other wholeheartedly? And not to analyze?
By the way, this thread is really eye opening, as it shows how many people care about promotions more than relationships. Being aware of such a tendency protects you from making someone the first priority of your life, while you are a mere (second-handed?) option for them.
No offense intended. I'm just talking about the reality of some often sugarcoated concepts.
 

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Interesting. Was it you, series0, who recommended others to be passionate, put their hearts on their sleeves and merge with the other wholeheartedly? And not to analyze?
By the way, this thread is really eye opening, as it shows how many people care about promotions more than relationships. Being aware of such a tendency protects you from making someone the first priority of your life, while you are a mere (second-handed?) option for them.
No offense intended. I'm just talking about the reality of some often sugarcoated concepts.
The truth is with time and wisdom comes restraint of all things, quick desire ... just one of them. Real and lasting connection is not something that cannot stand the test of time. Further, all aspects of love are something to look for in the other and balance is thus completely included in what is meant by passion and love. It is a thing I say a lot, all virtues balanced.

So you got part of it right, merge with the other, accept them as yourself, yes. But you got part of it wrong, my recommendation. That is, do not simply abandon good judgement. Being passionate does not require that.

When last I checked the thread was extremely weighted to the relationship side and not the occupation side. I did mention in my post you quoted that I was only that way early in my life, as in late teens and early 20s. I quickly realized that work was mostly thankless and yet I was capable enough not to worry there. I was a bit of a fool though and lucky to be in a profession that was new and cresting many waves upwards - computers. I now know that excellence really does not matter. Skill is cheap and good judgement a hassle for employers to deal with. They prefer dupes. I am not one. Lessons learned. Women mostly are no different. I assume men are the same.

Sugarcoated concepts are the only ones worth discussing. Aim high ... or you are intending to fail. But real high is high in all ways, not just one way. It is ultimately unattainable and that is wonderful as it means there is always more to strive for, that everyone HAS NOT YET done enough, by definition. No rest for the weary. But in truth there is great joy in pushing high and not settling.

Most people are second best options for anyone as they do not consider themselves worthy of aiming high (perfection-aiming) in the first place. Moral relativism, going along to get along, playing the game, minding your own ps and qs; is weak. It's the norm. It's typical and low-aiming. Madonna was right and you don't get to say that every day: 'You'll do much better baby on your own.'
 

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I've never had a partner I invested more time&effort on than a full-time job. Hence losing a full-time job is more stressing than losing a partner for me. It's the job that keeps me alive in good health after all.

I am curious:
- What's it like having a partner you invest 50% or more of your awake time?
 

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I'm getting stupider. Lol. I thought it's only between A and B.. I was like.. Why everyone answering differently than me?

Okay. Didn't read well lololololol xD
 

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A. Succeed if you're doing good professionally everything else seems to come together or if you're are doing good in your personal life you will thrive better in the other aspects of life?
- Actually both. Because I'm facing those two everyday. So i must survive well

Yes of course most people seek to harmonize these various aspects. The questions is more so if you HAVE to pick which direction can propel and influence the success of the other aspects of your life?
- Probably #1 because I'm very i don't know.. Or maybe #2. I don't know. Difficult question

B. WHICH HAVING to choose would make you more likely to cry? (Maybe you would't cry) but more likely to have tremendous amounts of saddness or grief... Someone breaking up with you, or losing or not getting a position you were really hopeful for? I am curious about if answers to this are related to T vs F at all so I will make a poll as well
- Okay.. Jobs doesn't make me cry. Never cried in my stupid job xDD eventhough i suffered shit.
I mostly cried over relationship


I think this has more something to do with enneagram sx and sp.

Job security = sp

Personal relationships = sx

Not really about T/F
 

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F.
break up.


Succeed if you're doing good professionally everything else seems to come together
No, the different areas of my life are unrelated, they don't feed each other. 1 feeds all the others. This "1" is finances. Whenever I'm struggling financially, I cannot enjoy my relationships.
This concept was very difficult for my NF ex-bf to understand. He couldn't understand why the relationship alone couldn't fulfill me or soothe me in times of financial struggle. I was like Well sir, give me ten thousand euros and you'll see how soothed and chill I become.
Whenever he was unemployed once he would say "I'm so happy I have you because even though I'm worried about jobs, having this relationship soothes all my pain and I just feel so safe in life" the relationship made him feel that he was safe in the world and that he woudl eventually find a job. I am the complete opposite of that. Only money will make me feel safe in life, and only money will make me feel safe in a relationship.

Let me put it this way: If you make me choose between:
* Being homeless with the love of my life.
* Being cozy at home with a good meal and surrounded by plants and books, but alone.
I will choose to be at home and alone.

Yes of course most people seek to harmonize these various aspects. The questions is more so if you HAVE to pick which direction can propel and influence the success of the other aspects of your life?
All areas of my life (romance, sex, family, health, friendships, career, etc) are dependent on my financial area. And no, career and wealth aren't the same thing in my book. Career is something I would do for genuine interest or passion, a lifelong journey of neverending learning. But immediate wealth = a job. A job is something that gives me wealth, nothing to do with career.
So unless I feel safe economically, I cannot feel satisfied in any other areas, it just won't happen.

I don't care about jobs or work or "my mark in the world", as I'm not a "career woman" type. I care about the money and feeling secure. I'm an Sp normal person who needs money, so if I got money from the lottery or by scratching my ears, that would make me feel safe just like doing a random job would.

WHICH HAVING to choose would make you more likely to cry? (Maybe you would't cry) but more likely to have tremendous amounts of saddness or grief
A breakup. Because a relationship is personal, I give it my soul. I don't give any piece of soul to a job. You lose a job? You go and find another one. And none will matter because the only end goal is the money. But a match/connection is so rare to find, I just don't connect with people, so when it happens it's magical, and there's no end goal. The goal is the journey itself, together.
When I die I won't remember my jobs or career or whatever, I will remember my romantic relationships and my family. But I want to die in a cozy bed with good smelling linen, not under a bridge with the homeless. U know what I mean---
 

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A. Succeed if you're doing good professionally everything else seems to come together or if you're are doing good in your personal life you will thrive better in the other aspects of life? Yes of course most people seek to harmonize these various aspects. The questions is more so if you HAVE to pick which direction can propel and influence the success of the other aspects of your life?
My personal life has been a huge pile of shit for quite a while now, but I tend to do well in school which makes me feel better about myself. I haven't really entered the work force yet, but if I did poorly in that it would devastate me. I don't think I could feel good about myself if my personal life was going fine but my work life sucked, but the other way around it would work. So I'd rather have success in my professional life.

B. WHICH HAVING to choose would make you more likely to cry? (Maybe you would't cry) but more likely to have tremendous amounts of saddness or grief... Someone breaking up with you, or losing or not getting a position you were really hopeful for? I am curious about if answers to this are related to T vs F at all so I will make a poll as well.
I don't think I'd be necessarily sad, but I'd feel very embarrassed if someone broke up with me. I have an outlook that makes me want to be the one to end things.
However, the job rejection would be an absolute bummer. I don't handle rejection well when it comes to work or school related things.
 
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