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Generally, no. I'm not one to spout off my opinion right off the bat, but if someone else is very clearly in the wrong, I will point it out, and if my opinion is solicited and/or I'm directly asked about something, I'll provide feedback, and it won't be candy-coated.
 

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It makes no sense for ISTJ to be that much more submissive than ESTJ : p

That'll be more the Feeler types.
 

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Submissive as in what? Obeying orders willingly? So what is this compared to? Being rebellious?

Well I’m pretty rebellious silently. How I feel and think vs what I end up doing can be quite different. Simply because if something won’t benefit me or the situation in the end, why bother vocalizing the issue? I would only follow through with action if I can see a good probability that the effort won’t go to waste. Otherwise, I’ll stay silent on it.
 

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Simply because if something won’t benefit me or the situation in the end, why bother vocalizing the issue?
Because it's your issue, fuck everyone else and take your right to exercise yourself

I'd say this view you share is common in istj's where they'll analyze themselves into submission, you have no visceral reaction to being suppressed in that way
 

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Because it's your issue, fuck everyone else and take your right to exercise yourself

I'd say this view you share is common in istj's where they'll analyze themselves into submission, you have no visceral reaction to being suppressed in that way
Sure, I’d do that to strangers easily because I won’t see them again. It’s good to get things off the chest.

In situations where I need to see people again and deal with them constantly, it’s better to choose my battles. I want to win the war, not the battle actually. Even then, I might come to realize it’s not worth my time or effort and staying silent without having to justify myself to others could be the best thing for self help.
 

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Sure, I’d do that to strangers easily because I won’t see them again. It’s good to get things off the chest.

In situations where I need to see people again and deal with them constantly, it’s better to choose my battles. I want to win the war, not the battle actually. Even then, I might come to realize it’s not worth my time or effort and staying silent without having to justify myself to others could be the best thing for self help.
I just view things differently than you, to me it's more important with people you have to be around to set a precedent of yourself, strangers mean less to me. What's picking battles when you already own the majority of land from the jump?
 

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Heh maybe it's the ESTx but I gotta agree with @Convex 1000% on this one.

The other view, it's a strongly introverted view ignoring alot of the outside world trying to conserve energy.

Still, I would say that my ISTJ friend doesn't ignore the world entirely. He may not get openly confrontational to the max, but he will stand his ground just fine.

He will definitely try to suppress some anger and confrontational energy though yeah, tries to stay nice in the face of insults if he cares about the person. Though he draws the limit in the sand at one point alright. Then the rest he swallowed, it comes out of him in a half passive aggro way later lol.

Overall though there is no way I'd call him submissive. He's a control freak actually. More than me, actually, lol.
 

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I just view things differently than you, to me it's more important with people you have to be around to set a precedent of yourself, strangers mean less to me. What's picking battles when you already own the majority of land from the jump?
I would think the same around people that have no power over me. At work, it’s different. If you say everything in your mind, you can kiss that raise or promotion goodbye. I need that money for my family, for my baby. So it’s more important to let it go for the greater good. With in laws, I see them every day and creating tension would just make things uncomfortable for everyone, including myself. If it’s not worth it, it’s better to let it go. I am not saying be a doormat. Just that some things might feel good at the moment, then regretful later on. I try to minimize the feeling of regret.
 

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I just view things differently than you, to me it's more important with people you have to be around to set a precedent of yourself, strangers mean less to me. What's picking battles when you already own the majority of land from the jump?
Don't take this as a personal attack (I'm sure you won't), but people like that I come across IRL annoy the living shit out of me, even as a casual observer with no skin in whatever game it is they're playing. The only precedent they are establishing is that they spout off for no damned good reason way too often and rarely, if ever, come to the realization that most people have just tuned them out completely.

I don't consider myself submissive at all, but there does need to be a damned good reason for me to become the aggressor. Not giving a fuck what most others do has nothing to do with submissiveness... it's just not giving a fuck about inconsequential things, nothing more, nothing less. One of the advantageous effects of being selective about when I open my mouth is that people really tend to take notice when I do... "Holy shit!!! Joe is really serious/pissed!!!" and it's quite effective because of it. It also establishes that precedent you spoke of, the effect of which lasts far longer than it does for those who are constantly spouting off.
 

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Choosing when and how to react and respond, carefully and specifically, often choosing no overt reaction at all is often observed to be submissiveness, when really it's exercising a great deal of self control, and wields a certain amount of power.

It looks like submissiveness, when really it's just exercising a different type of power and control over the outcome.
 

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Choosing when and how to react and respond, carefully and specifically, often choosing no overt reaction at all is often observed to be submissiveness, when really it's exercising a great deal of self control, and wields a certain amount of power.

It looks like submissiveness, when really it's just exercising a different type of power and control over the outcome.
Exactly.
 

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Don't take this as a personal attack (I'm sure you won't), but people like that I come across IRL annoy the living shit out of me, even as a casual observer with no skin in whatever game it is they're playing. The only precedent they are establishing is that they spout off for no damned good reason way too often and rarely, if ever, come to the realization that most people have just tuned them out completely.

I don't consider myself submissive at all, but there does need to be a damned good reason for me to become the aggressor. Not giving a fuck what most others do has nothing to do with submissiveness... it's just not giving a fuck about inconsequential things, nothing more, nothing less. One of the advantageous effects of being selective about when I open my mouth is that people really tend to take notice when I do... "Holy shit!!! Joe is really serious/pissed!!!" and it's quite effective because of it. It also establishes that precedent you spoke of, the effect of which lasts far longer than it does for those who are constantly spouting off.
Yeah to me your mentality is restrictive cause when you rarely get mad and then finally do, it's like clinching onto the few things you have. Of course they take notice but it isn't cause they respect your precedent, it's manufactured, and predictable. They're backing down from pushing you in even further and suffocating you. It's pushing you into the corner taking more and more space, leaving you with less and less things to clinch onto, and when that happens people justify this by "taking control" of what they value and want to clinch onto, that's what stoicism is

I get it you want to live in your own house and not be bothered by anyone, but it just isn't how it works for the majority of people. Hey if you can maintain that, props, I'd call that neutral and not submissive
 

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I think convex's response reminds me of someone mistaking kindness/lack of response as submissiveness, But i digress.

My dad is an ISTJ. No way in hell is he submissive, but he knows when to not rock the boat for no reason in public.

Also i think ISTJ's have the highest will power of any type that i know. My dad quit smoking on his first try.... cold turkey, once he made that decision. He even dealt with me growing up. That's saying something! :D
 

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Don't take this as a personal attack (I'm sure you won't), but people like that I come across IRL annoy the living shit out of me, even as a casual observer with no skin in whatever game it is they're playing. The only precedent they are establishing is that they spout off for no damned good reason way too often and rarely, if ever, come to the realization that most people have just tuned them out completely.

I don't consider myself submissive at all, but there does need to be a damned good reason for me to become the aggressor. Not giving a fuck what most others do has nothing to do with submissiveness... it's just not giving a fuck about inconsequential things, nothing more, nothing less. One of the advantageous effects of being selective about when I open my mouth is that people really tend to take notice when I do... "Holy shit!!! Joe is really serious/pissed!!!" and it's quite effective because of it. It also establishes that precedent you spoke of, the effect of which lasts far longer than it does for those who are constantly spouting off.
You're on an MBTI forum. Has it ever occurred to you that others have different preferences and views? That others do not need to conserve as much energy as you do, that others have more ready access to anger and extra energy to do things or take things that you find too tiring? That others do not tune out some people that you do because you dislike them or whatever it is with it "annoying the living shit" out of you.

Or if you were thinking of a very specific type of person that really just behaves like a little child in kindergarten, it was pointless to generalise.

And if it is okay to say to others on here that their approach annoys the living shit out of you, well for me the lack of communicativeness that you endorsed in the other thread annoys the living shit out of me. : P
 

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It's strange that non-ISTJ's are telling ISTJ's how ISTJ's feel/process, and then using that projected (errored) thinking as evidence.

It's also strange that these supposed inferior traits supposedly preclude success. Many ISTJ's I've observed are highly successful in their endeavors, and in life in general. It's just a different approach to success. Is the goal the best approach, or the best result?

It's not about lacking energy to process externally, it's knowing the difference between a worthy cause and an exercise in futility. The drive for efficiency is not driven by a lack of resources, it's the pursuit of maximizing results by discarding poor investments of effort.

Just my non-ISTJ opinion...
 
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