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Discussion Starter #1
Like the title says, when an ESTP and ISTJ enter into a relationship (not just romantically, but as friends, classmates, workers) What are some areas/situations that they clash in? And what are some areas/situations they do well together in? What are some things you observe?

I would like it if you could use your own experience instead of just guessing, but some theoretical discussion would not be too bothersome. Other types are welcome to share their observations as well.

Im just really curious about ESTPs. Some things they do make no sense to me, but I love 'em just the same! :blushed:

OWL
 

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My dad is an ISTJ. We work well together when trying to get things done, but when it come to having fun...not so much. I could say a lot more but I'm just gettin it started.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
anything is welcome, Adrenaline! :happy:

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This is almost too broad and I don't know where to start. I have lots of experience with ISTJs, especially women. They make me calm, while I don't agree with their logic usually I can see how they came to the decision. I think their anal ways are cute and it makes me grin. Personally I find it no problem bringing them out of their shell. I don't know if it makes them more extroverted, but at least I can convince them to get out without too much work.

Some of the positives can be negative I guess too. An ESTP needs to balance his natural tendencies when with an ISTJ. We can't be too messy, uncaring or "whatever" in our attitude. We like to live on the edge and go with the flow but there is only so much ISTJs can take before they shut down. When an ISTJ goes into frugal anal mode especially about one subject we eventually have to listen or at least show them that we care about what they are saying. I find it isn't about control with an ISTJ, they just think somethings are very important (Money). ESTPs can actually reap the rewards from this with a little work. ISTJs like doing some of the mundane tasks we abhor cause they think it is their 'duty".

I really need specific questions i think Owl.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
hmmm, Id like to get a bunch of situations in, so how about one that's work oriented? How do ISTJs and ESTPs interact when working on a project together either for business or school work?

Is that better? I apologize for not being specific enough.

OWL
 

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The Doer King
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I find we work well together. I respect people who work in a more linear logic then I do abstract. I like to be able to follow how people come up with results. If it looks like they just pulled work results out of their butt I tend to question them more. So basically even if I don't agree with an ISTJ at times I feel like I can discuss it rationally with them. They are also pretty level headed and it takes a lot to get them upset.

Work and school are pretty similar really. Same reasons as above along with their detail oriented work ethic. ISTJ brings structure to my chaos. If I am go go go and get offline they can bring me back in just like when ISTJ get too much into details I can get things moving. I think we make a pretty good team because of that.
 

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My best friend is an ESTP. He's a dick to a lot of people and I don't agree with how he treats women but we get along well. We share a lot of common interests and are into a lot of the same things. He doesn't appreciate my criticism so much sometimes but I think ESTPs have pretty thick skin so it doesn't bother him to the point that he'll get truly upset.

Sometimes his spontaneity clashes with my absence of spontaneity and wanting to stop and think things through. He's always trying to push me to do something quick and I'm always trying to get him to stop and think about it before jumping in. We haven't really had any "real" fights. We're able to speak in a language that both of us understand and come to a mutual understanding whenever an issue comes up.

He's always late and unreliable about getting in contact when he says he will. I can see this being a conflict with an ISTJ and sometimes it bugs me but for the most part it doesn't bother me enough to get truly upset about it.

Also, he gives terrible advice. He's worthless to ask for advice. Every time I've taken his advice it has turned out badly. If I ever ask for constructive criticism he's always timid about offering it, not wanting to hurt my feelings. I have to remind him that I will not get upset and to just unleash his real thoughts. That gets a bit annoying at times.

Edit: I just thought of something else. He will ask me questions that require a long answer (5+ minutes) and he will get bored before I finish explaining. A few days ago I called him out on it and he was like "sorry, you just give too many details and I feel like I'm waiting for you to get to the good part". I told him he wouldn't be able to fully understand the good part without the details. I think the opposite is also true when I ask him a question. I'll ask him something and just get the "good part" and I'm left confused and when I ask for more details he gets a bit frustrated at times.

That's my experience anyway.
 

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The Doer King
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If you are asking my specific situation then well it depends. But yeah I think the Si/Te combo is the cause of the poor logic. I guess it is the judging functions. You guys think something is a certain way and when you believe it is, it is. Period.
 
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If you are asking my specific situation then well it depends. But yeah I think the Si/Te combo is the cause of the poor logic. I guess it is the judging functions. You guys think something is a certain way and when you believe it is, it is. Period.


I'm not sure whether I should take this personally or not, lol. Maybe you haven't met any smart ISTJs.
 

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I'm not sure whether I should take this personally or not, lol. Maybe you haven't met any smart ISTJs.
My girlfriend is an ISTJ engineer, I think she is plenty smart. Still illogical
 

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k, I don't get your logic.
Well than you agree with my earlier statements between our two types. I didn't mean to say that ISTJ were illogical to everyone but they typically are to me. She often thinks I am illogical as well.

It is a two way street.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
If you are asking my specific situation then well it depends. But yeah I think the Si/Te combo is the cause of the poor logic. I guess it is the judging functions. You guys think something is a certain way and when you believe it is, it is. Period.
well, I'm guilty of that too. We have our beliefs in what is "right" and if you are ever to persuade us otherwise, you better be able to come up with some really good evidence to support your claim!

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My sister is ISTJ, and my cousin is ESTP (he's more like a brother than a cousin sometimes). While we were growing up together, they always seemed to clash. They were both used to getting their way, and when these "ways" were not parallel...BOOM! Also, they are the oldest of our respective families, so I guess they just liked being boss.

Now that we're all older, they get along so much better. But I think that the only reason for this is that they learned to avoid the areas of life in which they disagree. But, still to this day, my sister thinks my cousin is too reckless, and my cousin thinks my sister is a kill-joy. I see the typological battle now...kind of makes me what to instigate situations just to observe the outcome! :crazy:
 

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OWL, it turns out that most of my best friends are ISTJs. I admire their loyalty, ability to perform under pressure, and they admire my spontaneity and ability to turn work into fun. The irony is that they have learned from me that their exacting methods and inspector like qualities don't always lead to the best results. On top of that, they admire my ability to strike up a conversation with just about anyone. Someone mentioned that most if not all ESTPs were courageous, and I think the same could be said for ISTJs. I know I would want ISTJs in my foxhole if I were in a war.

As far as romance goes, I know the ISTJ is supposed to match up with the ESTP, but I don't find ISTJ women, the few that I have met, particularly attractive. I admire them for all the reasons I mention and like them, but I have been told the trickster for ESTPs is the third function, extraverted feeling, and I have always personally found feelers more attractive. They have such control of their feelings that they can usually figure out what is getting me down and get me out of my depressed funk.
 

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But, still to this day, my sister thinks my cousin is too reckless, and my cousin thinks my sister is a kill-joy. I see the typological battle now...kind of makes me what to instigate situations just to observe the outcome! :crazy:
This is how I would describe my relationship with my two ISTJ SILs.
I think they are confused at the fact that on one hand I can be a successful business woman, I have very well behaved kids despite the fact that I am more of a friend to my kids, I am confident and intelligent yet I allow my kids to drop from bungee cords and I break bones riding on quads at 35 years old. I also get the "she's materialistic and careless" vibe from them as well. I get how that may confuse an ISTJ because we seem inconsistent.

I admire the fact that they have better preparation skills than I do, especially with their children. It's also cute that they think to call me and remind me things or fill me in because they know I don't stop.
I find both are very judgemental of others who don't live according to what they believe is right. I enjoy it when I get them to laugh but that's pretty much as far as the friendship goes, there is really no other connection or commonality.

And I agree with Elvis, I am also attracted to feelers for the same reason. They are so good at reaching in to us.
 

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Of course your favorite crazy socionics guy just has to post his article about what he feels applies to this conversation.

Mirror is an intertype relation of intellectual stimulation and mutual correction. The pair shares common interests, but differ slightly in thought process and methodology.
Initially, Mirrors find plenty of things to talk about. They easily understand each other's philosophies (and usually find that they agree) on basically all issues. They are surprised to find that the other can provide a subtly different outlook and recognize valuable things they themselves would tend to overlook. As the relationship gets closer, their differences become more of an obstacle. When everything is apparently all said and done, one Mirror will point out something they consider to be a loose end. This perplexes the other, because the point appears to them inconsequential and a distraction from the main point of the process. They may even think the other is intentionally derailing their efforts, because of their otherwise understanding attitude. This perpetual sense of almost understanding leads to some frustration between mirrors, despite it being a generally positive relationship. Any tension is easily resolved by creating some distance; confrontation is almost never necessary, and if it happens is quickly forgotten.
Perhaps more than any other relation, Mirrors can stimulate each other's creativity and work in tandem on the same project, but this interaction is primarily intellectual (i.e. work-related) and does not result in a feeling of closeness or needing the other on a more instinctive level. While they may find the discussion interesting at first, too much of it can lead Mirrors to have a sense of emptiness and disappointment about the relationship. They complement each other within their shared strengths, leaving an entire half of the informational world essentially neglected. They reinforce each other's attempts to engage the Super-id, but these usually remain half-hearted, continually returning to the comfort zone of the Ego.
The intellectual stimulation and surprise involved in Mirror relations make it quite durable and friendly even over a long period of time. Thus, Mirror is a common relationship among friends.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
so, it seems ISTJs and ESTPS often find that they pair up well as friends?
 
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