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I’m curious. In general terms, what do ENTJs think about each of the functions they lack? (Ti, Ne, Si, Fe).

Ti:
Agree that it's useful but naive in many ways and detached from reality. Ti works beautifully when there aren't any real life constraints applied to it (ex. time, cost, and incomplete information) but as soon as it's exposed to objective data it tends to collapse on itself. I remember a Ti-dom trying to make the argument that to select the best interns for our firm's summer internship we needed to avoid filtering based on resume qualifications and instead interview every single applicant to assess their strengths and weaknesses individually-- all 950 of them. I told him that was unrealistic given our $90,000 budget (it's approximately $1200 per person to fly out and put up in a hotel for a day) and to figure out how exactly we were going to accomplish that given our cost constraints and 2 week deadline. He eventually ceded the point. I frequently tell high Ti users that they're absolutely correct-- in theory-- but that's also not how the world works.

Ne:
Chaos. Ne is the cognitive function most loved in the MBTI community and it's only credited as being bad when it's in the inferior position. Unlike Te which has a negative reputation in any position (dom, aux, tert, or inferior), we often forget how destructive dominant Ne can be when left unchecked. It creates lots of ideas-- but most are bad ones. Personally, I can only take Ne-doms in small doses; lack of execution, flakiness, rampant procrastination, and selective motivation are common personality traits I see in types with high Ne. The good news is that they're rarely a threat in direct competition-- too undisciplined to compete for extended periods of time (low stamina, inconsistent energy and effort) and too easily distracted (low focus)-- so TJs end up in management positions where we can dictate the flow of traffic. Ne is dysfunctional unless it's supplemented by a well-developed judging function to harness its potential. I love it in personal interactions where nothing is at stake like jokes, brainstorming ideas, storytelling, gaming, and having deep discussions but I hate it in situations where deadlines and commitments need to be met which is the other 90% of life.

Si: Useful and consistent. I wish it were stronger because my attention to detail and memory are shot to hell.

Fe: Incredibly useful in day to day interactions for building relationships and navigating sticky social situations. I don't have Fe, and on some level I will never understand how certain people go through life with that as their leading cognitive function, but I can project it well enough by using Te/Fi and I see its value. It's been a great tool to help bridge communication gaps and to become a more effective leader.
 

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"The strongest team asset and the weakest team player." Was used to describe someone's entj partner. Comment.
The ENTJ's partner is valuable to the team but the most difficult to collaborate with. I would say the entj's partner is a hot shot and the partner knows it. I mean an entj would only ever bed with another hot shot and probably even encourages the behavior a bit. :wink:
 

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Sorry, I can't help but chime in.
This ended up being a rather long drawn out reply on the nature of Fe. Oops.



but it'd bring less internal moaningandgroaning with Fe because then I wouldn't have to debate whether I want to be honest (i.e., someone asking me for an honest opinion--it would be okay if I lied cause their feelings are my priority),

Not necessarily, LOL.


If someone asks me for an honest opinion, that's what I have to give them because that's what they wanted.
I would get worried "Am I being honest enough to meet this person's standard" because their values become more important than the Fe users own (*see below).

Even when I have an existing plan / logical reasons not to be honest for whatever reason... the force of someone wanting my honesty tugs at Fe pretty damn hard. Even when it's the opposite of what I really want to do.

As with all functions, MBTI can kinda oversimplify Fe. In some situations it really can be "the white lie" function, but in many other instances it can be like handing others an access card to get what they want from you - it's a leash.


or whatever else because the result is that, I'd want to preserve group harmony, or make sure it's okay with people. Right? Also, Fe is quite expressive. People would think less of me as a robot, or an ahole if I wear my heart on my sleeve->gain rapport very early on rather than needing to figure out if I'm an okay person to hang out with or not. Social things, not so much for myself.

Again, not necessarily.

This is that whole "healthy Fe is only positive" stereotype... whereas all Fe / Fi stuff operates on a scale from very positive to very negative, and the expression off all of those emotions is still considered healthy in traditional psychology as long as it's done in a healthy (non-harmful) manner.

What I'm getting at is that there are plenty of people who think me a bitch. I make a point of intentionally being a bitch when the situation calls for it - people crossing clearly & fairly marked boundaries, defending others, ect.
Fe just makes me more comfortable in doing it.
Why, just the other week I offered to our INFP neighbor to yell at a guy who was bothering her... she had trouble believing I was happy to do it - because for me, it's no big deal to throw a bunch of emotion out there when it's needed.


TL;DR - Fe is for more than harmony & contentment. It can also create spectacular disharmony and discontent, and still be officially healthy while doing either.



Moving on,

The (*) way above in the previous quote, is for this note:

I've been musing over this idea that there's two sides to Fe.
There's the receptive side, which one will see more of in introverts.
Then there's the broadcasting side, which we see more of in extroverts.

For broadcasting, it's the user pushing their emotions & the established external moral standards towards others:
I.e. - Charm your socks off with their feeling expression... or bearing down with Fe's explosive anger.
Also i.e. - "This is why we say please and thank you, because blah blah is how it makes others feel".


For the receptive side, which all the IFJ's (& even to a degree the ITP's) that I've known personally seem to use far far more than the broadcasting side;
It presents more as accepting incoming emotional information from others.
From us Aux's, it prompts a lot of personal behaviour modification with us being totally unaware why we are doing it. It's a feeling - an emotion in the air, a brief look on someone's face.
Like we try to customize a preferred persona / environment for each person that matters to us.
- and customize a hell for the people we hate, LOL.

If I meet a new person I value, and they have certain strong moral viewpoints... it can be hard for them to understand that I'm truly accepting those morals.
If I really care about someone, I just assimilate it.
They hate ex-pres Bush because of xyz? Well, if I had actually liked him before... I can begin to not like him based on the presence of moral values that contradict that coming from someone I value.
= It's not fake (at least not Ni-Fe, which is all I can personally attest to).
It's an actual change in values, based on the amount of investment I want to make into another person.


And over the course of their life, Fe users adopt a host of values from other people... but there will always be that flexible element to it where just one person can change everything that matters.



TL;DR #2: Fe is probably not nearly as helpful as you think it might be. You might burn more bridges with it than you preserve.

Now we can chat about how I wish I had Te... for one thing, I might be able to write concisely for a change, hahaha.
 

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@Rebecca.M

No problem at all!

I gave two very quick, misrepresented, stereotypical examples of Fe because that was what came to my mind at the moment (I'll be sure to be more careful in the future). I'm sorry.

I enjoyed reading your perspective on Fe, and how it's able to manifest in several ways other than "feel-good, bring people togetherness" type of Fe. I think the details you chose to include in your post really tie it all together!

Thank you for writing about Fe--I was able to learn something new! :)
 

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"The strongest team asset and the weakest team player." Was used to describe someone's entj partner. Comment.
Depends on the team. I might have a great team who are all technically skilled, bring great ideas to the table, and are self-directed. That would be fantastic, it would free me up to look at how to utilize their skills to get the best result for the team.

Unfortunately my usual experience of teamwork is doing the grueling emotional labour of listening to every single person's impractical thoughts, and then having the chore of congratulating them for their original thinking, validating them as a human being, and then cherry-picking the working elements of their idea and selling it back to them with modifications, simultaneously showing them where it won't work while staying positivity-focused.

Ugh.
 

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Unfortunately my usual experience of teamwork is doing the grueling emotional labour of listening to every single person's impractical thoughts, and then having the chore of congratulating them for their original thinking, validating them as a human being, and then cherry-picking the working elements of their idea and selling it back to them with modifications, simultaneously showing them where it won't work while staying positivity-focused.

Ugh.

Yeah, but you guys are so good at it.

It's seriously the one public area where you seem nicer than any other type ... when you re-work someone's idea into something actionable, without making them feel like idiots in the process.



 


I just had the most awesome ever imagining!
I could start a business... "ENTJ hotline" where people call up with their messy, nonsense ideas and the ENTJ's on my staff work it out into something practical.

I can just see the sweat gleaming on all those Te foreheads as they are forced to pander to the masses.... errrr hahahahahahaha!

I shall rule you all!


ahhhh! I shouldn't have said that!

<backs away slowly>
 

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Do you sometimes not understand the nature of your friend's introversion? I have an ENTJ friend I have known for 8+ years but he still doesn't understand why I'm not usually the initiate in starting conversations or why I disappear for weeks. I think after all this time of knowing each other he would know it's who I am. What would be a good way to explain that it's not his fault/not to take it personally?
 

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Do you sometimes not understand the nature of your friend's introversion? I have an ENTJ friend I have known for 8+ years but he still doesn't understand why I'm not usually the initiate in starting conversations or why I disappear for weeks. I think after all this time of knowing each other he would know it's who I am. What would be a good way to explain that it's not his fault/not to take it personally?
No, I understand other people's introversion and I'm a low maintenance friend given my career. However, without any interaction or visible effort on the other person's part, I'd also wonder the point of the friendship and maintaining it if it doesn't align with my expectations. For example, if I only see you whenever you're in trouble and you need someone to talk to but when the situation is flipped you're nowhere to be found then I'd interpret that as a one-sided relationship and lacking effort. If you only want to socialize whenever it's convenient for you or if I always have to accommodate your schedule-- that's also another red flag.

Otherwise, I'd tell your ENTJ straight up the friendship matters (only if it actually does) and explain your communication style outright so there aren't any misunderstandings. I'm respectful of people's boundaries but I need to know where they are first.
 

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Do you sometimes not understand the nature of your friend's introversion? I have an ENTJ friend I have known for 8+ years but he still doesn't understand why I'm not usually the initiate in starting conversations or why I disappear for weeks. I think after all this time of knowing each other he would know it's who I am. What would be a good way to explain that it's not his fault/not to take it personally?
Woah. You disappear for weeks without an explanation, you never initiate and you assume people will just know? :bwink: How have you kept a friend for 8+ years? You must have some secret weapons I haven't heard of. :biggrin:

Here's what you say:

"You know, I really enjoy our friendship. Sometimes I assume people just know this about me, but I think it's best if I put it out there. I go through introversion phases where I disappear for weeks. I need downtime to reflect, think and grow. It's not personal when I do that to you! It's just who I am. I also prefer that other people initiate conversations. The combination of disappearing and not initiating can make it difficult for my friends. Is there anything I can do to make it easier for you while staying true to my needs?"

My suggestion to you is that you need a mutually understood code like "gone down the rabbit hole" for when you're in your 3 week me-zone. You can respond using that phrase and people will get it. No guessing required.
 

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Woah. You disappear for weeks without an explanation, you never initiate and you assume people will just know? :bwink: How have you kept a friend for 8+ years? You must have some secret weapons I haven't heard of. :biggrin:
He's an ex, but we have been friends for years. I don't think that matters since we have been friends for longer than we dated (date 2 years, friends 6 years). It's not that I never initiate, sometimes I do. I don't expect him to just know because I have told him it's how I am, using similar phrasing to what you suggested. It's just frustrating because while our friendship allows us to be extremely open with nearly everything (relationships, life, friends, family) and talk about anything, it seems like no matter how many times I express it we spend 5-10 minutes in the beginning of every conversation with me being interrogated for why I've been withdrawn. Sometimes there is no reason. Then, it's a feedback loop where I withdraw more because I don't feel like being asked why I've been quiet for so long. We're both pretty stubborn too.

Here's what you say:

"You know, I really enjoy our friendship. Sometimes I assume people just know this about me, but I think it's best if I put it out there. I go through introversion phases where I disappear for weeks. I need downtime to reflect, think and grow. It's not personal when I do that to you! It's just who I am. I also prefer that other people initiate conversations. The combination of disappearing and not initiating can make it difficult for my friends. Is there anything I can do to make it easier for you while staying true to my needs?"
This is the way I will approach it next time. Thanks. I'm starting to think it's not that he doesn't understand me, it's that I don't understand him, or why he has to question why I've been introverted. It just seems like a major misunderstanding where he thinks something is wrong and there isn't. Nothing's wrong. I'm fine. And I do care, even if it's not expressed in the way he expects. He might judge how much people care based on how much they initiate, which I'm shitty at.

My suggestion to you is that you need a mutually understood code like "gone down the rabbit hole" for when you're in your 3 week me-zone. You can respond using that phrase and people will get it. No guessing required.
That's good advice. I use a term similar to that, yet he usually associates it with me being depressed or sad when it's me being myself. I'm starting to think he's using his own behavior to frame the meaning of mine, and vice versa, but our behavior means different things.
 

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LOL, I couldn't help but respond to this part... because it's so funny / odd / different thought styles entirely.


I think it's best if I put it out there. I go through introversion phases where I disappear for weeks.
a mutually understood code like "gone down the rabbit hole" for when you're in your 3 week me-zone.

You do know that introverts live in an introversion phase? Haha

If an INFJ is socializing all the time, something is wrong, they are running from some internal issue into the outer world through inferior Se.


The rabbit hole is where we live. A nice cozy little den. A colorful world all our own.
There's no expiration date to the me-zone :p

When we come out to play, it's because we're inspired to - we feel like it's safe, and there's something tempting us out.

For me, a SO is the only person who inspires the energy to come out to play with them a majority of the time.
I'm also just really happy to send them to play with their friends without me ;)
YES, go drink beer 4x week and chat guy stuff all evening! Yey!



You disappear for weeks without an explanation, you never initiate and you assume people will just know? :bwink: How have you kept a friend for 8+ years?

Is that really what it takes to have long-lasting friends for most people? Do you really have to communicate all the time?

Isn't it just satisfying to know they'll be there if you need them, and you're only a phone call away if they need you?

I dunno... I like my friendships with like, a once a month meetup, or perhaps a 3-4 day stint of all-day fun like a trip somewhere, and then afterwards just chilling out and recuperating solo. Radio silent. Don't bug me about trip pictures.
 

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@Rebecca.M, if you're able to communicate in a better way than me to the friend in question, please feel free to give the OP specific advice.

In my experience, introverts with an understanding of social behavior do respond to their friends and let them know nicely they're not in a social mood or they proactively explain their behavior to cut down confusion and endless requests. That's the respectful way. If the friend then chooses to not understand, it's the friend's problem. If your friendship style is different and your friends get it, good for you. OP's friend didn't get it so I gave her a way to communicate that met both their needs.
 

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@gritglossandrainbows

You took that as a critique, when I was just offering a different way to look at the behaviors you were surprised at. See my opening sentence.

I thought understanding why people think & behave differently was the whole point of a typology forum?
 

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How would you guys feel if a girl rejects sex on the first date with you? Do you respect it and see it positively or no?
I wouldn't try for sex on the first date with someone that I respect. If it happened organically and we both got carried away in the moment, sure, but I would regret starting a physical relationship before an emotional and intellectual one.
 

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The ENTJ's partner is valuable to the team but the most difficult to collaborate with. I would say the entj's partner is a hot shot and the partner knows it. I mean an entj would only ever bed with another hot shot and probably even encourages the behavior a bit. :wink:
Business partners, lol, and an INTP. Both work well together, the INTP is pretty realistic and down to earth, and the entj has the experience and know how for many things. The problems arise when they're in work mode, with deadlines to deal with, and the entj (and most Te people IME) freak out and become total control freaks. With no reason to. A close family member of mine is ISTJ and freaks out over paying the telephone bill, even though its a month before it expires. This is a different kind of asshole than what furry is describing bellow; I wouldn't even consider telling someone that their idea sucks or that it needs reformatting, being an asshole. But TJs have to make it perfect, and the only person who can do this is themselves, so they're being assholes, indermining and treating others as incompetent, because it's a control thing? Not sure. As soon as the task is over, they go back to their usual, jovial self, until the next "challenge". Thoughts?

Depends on the team. I might have a great team who are all technically skilled, bring great ideas to the table, and are self-directed. That would be fantastic, it would free me up to look at how to utilize their skills to get the best result for the team.

Unfortunately my usual experience of teamwork is doing the grueling emotional labour of listening to every single person's impractical thoughts, and then having the chore of congratulating them for their original thinking, validating them as a human being, and then cherry-picking the working elements of their idea and selling it back to them with modifications, simultaneously showing them where it won't work while staying positivity-focused.

Ugh.

That sounds tiring as fuck, for anyone, it goes without saying, working with people without the skills needed for the job is a pain in the ass. Do you think you'd behave not controlling having the perfect team though? Or close to perfect anyways. Or if you have, what did you thought of your own behaviour to the team, and what did the team thought of you?
 

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Business partners, lol, and an INTP. Both work well together, the INTP is pretty realistic and down to earth, and the entj has the experience and know how for many things. The problems arise when they're in work mode, with deadlines to deal with, and the entj (and most Te people IME) freak out and become total control freaks. With no reason to. A close family member of mine is ISTJ and freaks out over paying the telephone bill, even though its a month before it expires. This is a different kind of asshole than what furry is describing bellow; I wouldn't even consider telling someone that their idea sucks or that it needs reformatting, being an asshole. But TJs have to make it perfect, and the only person who can do this is themselves, so they're being assholes, indermining and treating others as incompetent, because it's a control thing? Not sure. As soon as the task is over, they go back to their usual, jovial self, until the next "challenge". Thoughts?
That story sounds one sided. Why is the ENTJ freaking out? Is the INTP failing to follow through on deliverables? Probably not, if it comes to an INTP's area of expertise. Is someone failing to deliver on promises? Because if everyone is doing their job and expectations are being met, then there's no reason to "freak out and become total control freaks". Bullshit. Someone is slacking off in that work place from the sound of it. Either that or he doesn't trust some of his workers as far as he can throw them. I'd get out of that business arrangement ASAP although I wouldn't end up working with people I have no faith in performing their jobs and delivering on promises to begin with.
 
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