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So ENTJ guys and girls, how much does it bother/annoy you when you have to deal with people of "perceiving" type specially when it comes to their lack of organization skills? Would you really want ore prefer them around you as coworker, friends or romantic partners?
This is sort of case-by-case.

INTPs: Can work alongside, wouldn't date, fine as friends but a little too self-centred
ENTPs: Imagine all of the above with Bart Simpson
INFPs: Can work alongside if they tame their emo, have dated but they're too focused on their own feels, amazing friends
ENFPs: The ones I know are funemployed, open-relationship? Fantastic friends
ISFPs: Couldn't work with one, just no. Dated one, it was... intense. Could not find two more intensely different people.
ESFPs: Would consider working with one in a fun environment, easy-going friends, couldn't date one.
ISTP: Can work with them if we're independent of one-another, quite like them as friends, am in a relationship with one.
ESTPs: Really effective in a team, ran a company with one and it was like Wolf of Wall Street. Friends... kind of. With the ones I know I'd trust them about as far as I can throw them, but we get along really well on a surface level. Wouldn't date one. They talk too much.

The lack of organisation can frustrate me, but it's my strength and I don't mind managing other people. Perceiving in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, my ISTP is really organised when he needs to be, but I look at other types and don't know how they make it through a single day, let alone their entire life bumping into things and being directionless.

You're an ENTP, find a nice INFJ who will subtly direct you.
Lolll u must hate ENTPs!
 

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So ENTJ guys and girls, how much does it bother/annoy you when you have to deal with people of "perceiving" type specially when it comes to their lack of organization skills? Would you really want ore prefer them around you as coworker, friends or romantic partners?
As coworkers: No. I have a very low opinion of perceiving types in collaborative environments and they have a high failure rate. When things are on the line (school projects, work engagements, deliverables, meetings, etc.) I simply don't trust them. I always put safeguards in place such as assigning an additional Consultant to attend the same meeting in case the perceiver flakes, conducting more than the usual amount of touchpoint meetings to subtly inquire on the progress of work to ensure there are no last minute fire drills, moving up times of events to ensure they get there early, etc. Also, any attempt to apply any sort of structure to a perceiver, no matter how reasonable (even something as simple as asking for an ETA on a work product), usually results in some sort of backlash: "Stop stressing me out! You're so bossy! Stop micromanaging me!"

What perceivers need to know is that your procrastination doesn’t just affect you– it fucks over your entire team. In school if you waited until the last minute to throw together a paper or study for a test it didn’t really matter because only your grade was at stake. In your career, you will work with others who are depending on the timely delivery of your piece of the project, your contribution, your analysis, your whatever to complete theirs. Their jobs, their livelihoods, their ability to pay their bills and support their spouses and children are at stake if you fuck around. Delivering something late gives the team less time to review it and complete their portion of the work, shifting around people’s schedules to fit whenever you want to work screws with your team’s personal lives and relationships because they’ll be forced to reschedule or cancel personal outings to accommodate you, and subjecting them to constant unpredictability creates toxic stress that affects mental and physical health. As an adult, procrastination is no longer annoying– it’s harmful.

As friends: Yes. As friends with no obligations and concrete commitments, they're fun and engaging, and conversations last for hours. No issues here.

As romantic partners: Yes, I find perceivers extremely attractive as romantic partners but [inserts a paragraph of explanation]: when we get into the real world and there are commitments to be made, bills to be paid, and burdens to be shouldered I want a partner who can carry her weight in life. The unspoken expectation in the MBTI universe that judgers should handle all the mind-numbing responsible tasks in life while perceivers are free to enjoy all the fun tasks in life can mutate into a parent-child dynamic that I don't want in a relationship with someone I'm sleeping with because it's unattractive. I'm not a sugar daddy and I'm not a father figure to my partner-- I want an equal. If those expectations are met, no problems at all.
 

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So ENTJ guys and girls, how much does it bother/annoy you when you have to deal with people of "perceiving" type specially when it comes to their lack of organization skills? Would you really want ore prefer them around you as coworker, friends or romantic partners?
Coworkers:
Yes on higher ranks. Definitely no on lower ranks. (also the romantic argument applies to higher ranks.)
One of my partners is an ENTP and I have to say we wouldnt be where we are without him. So long as the P person has at least some time management skills, I can live with it. There is a great deal of creative energy they give to the firm and I think it increases efficiency in low doses.
No on lower ranks, because some people just need to get shit done on time and through regular procedures. There are enough unemployed SJs in the world to do footwork, I dont need a P type to work in any position where the worker is basically doing mechanical work.

Friends:
Sure. I dont mind random P friends. And the argument for Romantic Partners applies to closer friends.

Romantic Partner:
As the value of specific personality traits increase, the value of MBTI typing decreases. MBTI is a framework to initially match people to pre-defined sets of traits. However, using MBTI on anyone who can have a significant impact in your life is plain wrong. However, if the question is "would you have a romantic relationship with someone who lacks organization skills" the answer is sure, but that person has to have some significantly positive traits to compensate for that.
 
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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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As coworkers: No. I have a very low opinion of perceiving types in collaborative environments and they have a high failure rate. When things are on the line (school projects, work engagements, deliverables, meetings, etc.) I simply don't trust them. I always put safeguards in place such as assigning an additional Consultant to attend the same meeting in case the perceiver flakes, conducting more than the usual amount of touchpoint meetings to subtly inquire on the progress of work to ensure there are no last minute fire drills, moving up times of events to ensure they get there early, etc. Also, any attempt to apply any sort of structure to a perceiver, no matter how reasonable (even something as simple as asking for an ETA on a work product), usually results in some sort of backlash: "Stop stressing me out! You're so bossy! Stop micromanaging me!"

What perceivers need to know is that your procrastination doesn’t just affect you– it fucks over your entire team. In school if you waited until the last minute to throw together a paper or study for a test it didn’t really matter because only your grade was at stake. In your career, you will work with others who are depending on the timely delivery of your piece of the project, your contribution, your analysis, your whatever to complete theirs. Their jobs, their livelihoods, their ability to pay their bills and support their spouses and children are at stake if you fuck around. Delivering something late gives the team less time to review it and complete their portion of the work, shifting around people’s schedules to fit whenever you want to work screws with your team’s personal lives and relationships because they’ll be forced to reschedule or cancel personal outings to accommodate you, and subjecting them to constant unpredictability creates toxic stress that affects mental and physical health. As an adult, procrastination is no longer annoying– it’s harmful.

As friends: Yes. As friends with no obligations and concrete commitments, they're fun and engaging, and conversations last for hours. No issues here.

As romantic partners: Yes, I find perceivers extremely attractive as romantic partners but [inserts a paragraph of explanation]: when we get into the real world and there are commitments to be made, bills to be paid, and burdens to be shouldered I want a partner who can carry her weight in life. The unspoken expectation in the MBTI universe that judgers should handle all the mind-numbing responsible tasks in life while perceivers are free to enjoy all the fun tasks in life can mutate into a parent-child dynamic that I don't want in a relationship with someone I'm sleeping with because it's unattractive. I'm not a sugar daddy and I'm not a father figure to my partner-- I want an equal. If those expectations are met, no problems at all.
It could be worse. You could be a female MBTI judger stuck in that relationship. Gender roles make that parent-child dynamic even more strained.

Having to play out the assertive "who's your daddy?" scenario in a sexual relationship might seem creepy to you, but try being a woman and playing out "who's your mommy?" It makes it even creepier. :laughing:
 

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What is the cheesiest pick up line you've ever heard?
A girl once asked me this 15mins after I met her,
"can I measure my vagina with your penis?"
And then managed to laugh it off. Frankly that was very impressive.

Then again you can always go with something like, "Hi I'm X.. dont worry, I'll tell your friends we met on tinder."

Next question: How does one meet a nice ENTJ man in real life and get to know them better?


Asking for a friend. (Me)
I'll answer this for myself, Much like the above answer, Im taking 5 courses, am in a pro sailing team, and have a company to manage. Most of my time is spent either out of town meeting with some random stakeholder or on a boat. If I'm not working on anything you can find me in the kitchen.



If you are in college, student clubs are great places to find ENTJs especially the career oriented clubs.
Also check people who have part time jobs. Most people, who have serious part time jobs during college and people who have 3 summer internships per summer, are ENTJs.
If you're in your mid 20s entrepreneurial meetups have tons of ENTJs.
I think it gets tougher and tougher to find "entj majority" locations as you get older. We tend to spread instead of clinging together like INFPs or the Chinese.
Around 30s-40s serious and older sailing teams have a great amount of ENTJs.
 
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Perhaps this has been asked elsewhere before- but Christmas and birthdays are drawing near and I need some advice.

What makes a good and meaningful gift for an ENTJ dad? Preferably item-based as he is currently overseas. (Did I mention that he can afford just about everything he could possibly want and I'm the one on a tight budget? :p)

If he's back home, what else could I do to make his day special?

Thanks in advance!!!
 

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Perhaps this has been asked elsewhere before- but Christmas and birthdays are drawing near and I need some advice.

What makes a good and meaningful gift for an ENTJ dad? Preferably item-based as he is currently overseas. (Did I mention that he can afford just about everything he could possibly want and I'm the one on a tight budget? :p)

If he's back home, what else could I do to make his day special?

Thanks in advance!!!
Not sure about others, but an easy-to-pick-up book in his area of interest is usually a safe bet. Extra points if it's a subject of mutual interest that you can talk about later. I usually go in for things like Malcolm Gladwell or Freakonomics type stuff because you can pick it up for five minutes, read an entertaining anecdote and learn something unusual or gain a new perspective.

An ex once tried to win me back by gifting me a copy of the latest edition of a legal textbook written by my personal hero. Damn near worked too.
 

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Perhaps this has been asked elsewhere before- but Christmas and birthdays are drawing near and I need some advice.

What makes a good and meaningful gift for an ENTJ dad? Preferably item-based as he is currently overseas. (Did I mention that he can afford just about everything he could possibly want and I'm the one on a tight budget? :p)

If he's back home, what else could I do to make his day special?

Thanks in advance!!!
If you want to buy him something while he's overseas you can buy him something that would remind him of you and/or of home. You could send him some snacks he wouldn't be able to find overseas, local sweets/chocolates, his favorite brand of shower or bathroom essentials, etc. Essentially something he'd be easily be able to buy back home but would be difficult to find overseas. The positive aspect to sending him reminders of home is that none of what I mentioned are likely to be expensive yet would also be personally meaningful to him as you'd be sending thoughtful gifts that show you were thinking about him and not just spending money on him.

When he's back, there's not a lot of extra work you need to do to make a birthday or Christmas special. Just try not to ruin his day while trying to make his day and he'd likely be a happy enough camper. I've never really been big on celebrating birthdays so a cake, a song and some gifts exchanged is enough for me. If he's financially well off, don't do something tacky and try to spend a lot of money on him, especially if he knows you're not on the best financial foothold. If he's anything like me, you'd likely receive a few critical words on the virtues of money management which I know ENFPs really hate being lectured on. :tongue:

So yeah, do something that's personal and meaningful to both of you. Honestly, something creative like writing a celebratory card that was etched on a wooden sheet would be fantastic a gift in addition to what I already mentioned, IMO. Don't overthink it and do what you think he'd like, also don't forget to remove the price tag if you buy anything. :p
 

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As coworkers: No. I have a very low opinion of perceiving types in collaborative environments and they have a high failure rate. When things are on the line (school projects, work engagements, deliverables, meetings, etc.) I simply don't trust them. I always put safeguards in place such as assigning an additional Consultant to attend the same meeting in case the perceiver flakes, conducting more than the usual amount of touchpoint meetings to subtly inquire on the progress of work to ensure there are no last minute fire drills, moving up times of events to ensure they get there early, etc. Also, any attempt to apply any sort of structure to a perceiver, no matter how reasonable (even something as simple as asking for an ETA on a work product), usually results in some sort of backlash: "Stop stressing me out! You're so bossy! Stop micromanaging me!"

What perceivers need to know is that your procrastination doesn’t just affect you– it fucks over your entire team. In school if you waited until the last minute to throw together a paper or study for a test it didn’t really matter because only your grade was at stake. In your career, you will work with others who are depending on the timely delivery of your piece of the project, your contribution, your analysis, your whatever to complete theirs. Their jobs, their livelihoods, their ability to pay their bills and support their spouses and children are at stake if you fuck around. Delivering something late gives the team less time to review it and complete their portion of the work, shifting around people’s schedules to fit whenever you want to work screws with your team’s personal lives and relationships because they’ll be forced to reschedule or cancel personal outings to accommodate you, and subjecting them to constant unpredictability creates toxic stress that affects mental and physical health. As an adult, procrastination is no longer annoying– it’s harmful.
Arrrgh!!! This ^^ exactly... I am a P and this annoys the crap outta me so I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for a J.

I currently work (as a people leader) in an IT project environment in Australia and the prevailing attitude is "she'll be right, mate". Sadly, it results in sooo much wastage of time, effort and money.

The bind I find myself in is that when I try to facilitate/walk the line I seem too much like a control freak (me!! An INFP!!) by other P's as I try to drive consensus and keep things moving... AND conversely, the J's (xSxJ's in particular) see me as too wishy-washy/part of the problem when I tweak frameworks to keep them light and flexible to allow for the (inevitable) plethora of changes.

Sometimes I feel like shouting "I am blind Freddy (in a Si Te context) and even I can see that this shit isn't working... what the hell is wrong with you people!! Please, for the love of <whatever you hold sacred>, get your arses in gear!!"

I am guessing that as natural people leaders (and Te doms to boot) you guys must have loads of experience walking the line. Do you have any pointers on how I can walk this middle ground more effectively/efficiently?

EDIT: To clarify: How do you strike a balance between motivating P's whilst not ticking off the J's and vice versa.
 
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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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What is with ENTJ and Lord of the Rings?
No clue. Never read the books. Didn't see the movies. Not interested.
 
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Not sure about others, but an easy-to-pick-up book in his area of interest is usually a safe bet. Extra points if it's a subject of mutual interest that you can talk about later. I usually go in for things like Malcolm Gladwell or Freakonomics type stuff because you can pick it up for five minutes, read an entertaining anecdote and learn something unusual or gain a new perspective.

An ex once tried to win me back by gifting me a copy of the latest edition of a legal textbook written by my personal hero. Damn near worked too.
Wow, a book.. Why didn't I think of that?! Fantastic idea!!

If you want to buy him something while he's overseas you can buy him something that would remind him of you and/or of home. You could send him some snacks he wouldn't be able to find overseas, local sweets/chocolates, his favorite brand of shower or bathroom essentials, etc. Essentially something he'd be easily be able to buy back home but would be difficult to find overseas. The positive aspect to sending him reminders of home is that none of what I mentioned are likely to be expensive yet would also be personally meaningful to him as you'd be sending thoughtful gifts that show you were thinking about him and not just spending money on him.

When he's back, there's not a lot of extra work you need to do to make a birthday or Christmas special. Just try not to ruin his day while trying to make his day and he'd likely be a happy enough camper. I've never really been big on celebrating birthdays so a cake, a song and some gifts exchanged is enough for me. If he's financially well off, don't do something tacky and try to spend a lot of money on him, especially if he knows you're not on the best financial foothold. If he's anything like me, you'd likely receive a few critical words on the virtues of money management which I know ENFPs really hate being lectured on. :tongue:

So yeah, do something that's personal and meaningful to both of you. Honestly, something creative like writing a celebratory card that was etched on a wooden sheet would be fantastic a gift in addition to what I already mentioned, IMO. Don't overthink it and do what you think he'd like, also don't forget to remove the price tag if you buy anything. :p
This is sooo helpful and useful, thank you!
 

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Arrrgh!!! This ^^ exactly... I am a P and this annoys the crap outta me so I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for a J.

I currently work (as a people leader) in an IT project environment in Australia and the prevailing attitude is "she'll be right, mate". Sadly, it results in sooo much wastage of time, effort and money.

The bind I find myself in is that when I try to facilitate/walk the line I seem too much like a control freak (me!! An INFP!!) by other P's as I try to drive consensus and keep things moving... AND conversely, the J's (xSxJ's in particular) see me as too wishy-washy/part of the problem when I tweak frameworks to keep them light and flexible to allow for the (inevitable) plethora of changes.

Sometimes I feel like shouting "I am blind Freddy (in a Si Te context) and even I can see that this shit isn't working... what the hell is wrong with you people!! Please, for the love of <whatever you hold sacred>, get your arses in gear!!"

I am guessing that as natural people leaders (and Te doms to boot) you guys must have loads of experience walking the line. Do you have any pointers on how I can walk this middle ground more effectively/efficiently?

EDIT: To clarify: How do you strike a balance between motivating P's whilst not ticking off the J's and vice versa.
- Hold everyone to the same standards, expectations, and guidelines but allow them to get there using their own methods. Don't bother or hassle people who are getting it done.

- Communicate these standards, expectations, and guidelines clearly to everyone, in writing, in a visible place, so no one can feign ignorance. I like sending general weekly team updates via email with a list/calendar of what everyone is working on so it's visible to the entire team and no one can duck responsibility.

- Assign people to roles that emphasize their strengths and set them up for success. Don't make an INFP work a commission based sales position, don't make an ESFP work an accounting position, and don't make an ENTJ work a touchy feely people herder position-- that's setting up everyone for failure.

- If there are any changes to the process be sure the explanation and logic for why are communicated to the entire team. It's okay to change course but it should be justified. Examples:

1. Do: "Process A isn't yielding the 25% high returns that our goal is set at. For this reason we are trying Process B to reach that 25%."

2. Don't: "Let's try process A, B, C, D, banana, pineapple-- let's do this-- no let's do that-- let's try this-- you know what'd be a great IDEA!?"

#2 will cause chaos not just among your SJs but also your NPs and SPs who tend to have more difficulty focusing. If those NPs and SPs are locked in and producing then you suddenly flip the switch they can come to a full stop and might take forever to restart.

- Praise team members publicly, discipline them privately.

- Give frequent feedback on performance to fix issues early and quickly. Do not be afraid to confront and correct people who aren't meeting metrics. Your sword and shield in this battle is the element of objectivity because the project's expectations and the organization's needs are what you are championing-- not a personal vendetta against this person.

- Remove and replace low performers as necessary. It's a disservice (and sometimes a catastrophe) when low performers are allowed to stay on a team and burden high performers who end up doing more work for equal or lesser pay. Letting low performers slide can foster resentment and cause your best people to underperform or simply leave.

If I think of anything else I'll post again later.
 

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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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- Hold everyone to the same standards, expectations, and guidelines but allow them to get there using their own methods. Don't bother or hassle people who are getting it done.

- Communicate these standards, expectations, and guidelines clearly to everyone, in writing, in a visible place, so no one can feign ignorance. I like sending general weekly team updates via email with a list/calendar of what everyone is working on so it's visible to the entire team and no one can duck responsibility.

- Assign people to roles that emphasize their strengths and set them up for success. Don't make an INFP work a commission based sales position, don't make an ESFP work an accounting position, and don't make an ENTJ work a touchy feely people herder position-- that's setting up everyone for failure.

- If there are any changes to the process be sure the explanation and logic for why are communicated to the entire team. It's okay to change course but it should be justified. Examples:

1. Do: "Process A isn't yielding the 25% high returns that our goal is set at. For this reason we are trying Process B to reach that 25%."

2. Don't: "Let's try process A, B, C, D, banana, pineapple-- let's do this-- no let's do that-- let's try this-- you know what'd be a great IDEA!?"

#2 will cause chaos not just among your SJs but also your NPs and SPs who tend to have more difficulty focusing. If those NPs and SPs are locked in and producing then you suddenly flip the switch they can come to a full stop and might take forever to restart.

- Praise team members publicly, discipline them privately.

- Give frequent feedback on performance to fix issues early and quickly. Do not be afraid to confront and correct people who aren't meeting metrics. Your sword and shield in this battle is the element of objectivity because the project's expectations and the organization's needs are what you are championing-- not a personal vendetta against this person.

- Remove and replace low performers as necessary. It's a disservice (and sometimes a catastrophe) when low performers are allowed to stay on a team and burden high performers who end up doing more work for equal or lesser pay. Letting low performers slide can foster resentment and cause your best people to underperform or simply leave.

If I think of anything else I'll post again later.

+1 to all of that
 

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What is with ENTJ and Lord of the Rings?
I watched the first one for like 20 minutes, then like 4 years later I was forced to watch the whole first movie. Still dont know what the hype is about.
 

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What makes a good and meaningful gift for an ENTJ dad? Preferably item-based as he is currently overseas. (Did I mention that he can afford just about everything he could possibly want and I'm the one on a tight budget? :p)
Surprise visit him.
 

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What is with ENTJ and Lord of the Rings?
I was thinking about this for past day or so, and I'd like to rephrase the question: Are you sure you don't mean what is it with ESTJ and LOTR? Because aside from enjoying the trilogy, I can't really think about what being an ENTJ has to do with LOTR. An ESTJ on the other hand would like it, because most of the male protagonists are ESTJ, ENFP, ISTJ, etc and is one of the most epic tales of good triumphing over evil in recent movie history. So while I certainly enjoyed the trilogy, I can see the appeal residing mainly with SJs and NFs, as those are the two general groups LOTR seems to tell a story to.

Didn't watch The Hobbit, so I can't comment on that series of movies.
 

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Did you guys buy any cool stuff cyber Monday or Black Friday? I know I saw some of you camped outside Wal-Mart...lmao. Trying to get your hands on that limited edition box set Lord Of The Rings trilogy
 

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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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Did you guys buy any cool stuff cyber Monday or Black Friday? I know I saw some of you camped outside Wal-Mart...lmao. Trying to get your hands on that limited edition box set Lord Of The Rings trilogy

Haha. Nope on LOTR.
(you're not going to let go of the idea that we are smitten with it, are you? :tongue:
Nope, not going to happen.)

You didn't see me camped outside anywhere.
Don't understand why anyone does that.
I order everything online. Much more efficient.

Did get a great deal on my Christmas china. It looks like this:

View attachment 612034


Spode. Christmas Tree Grove.


New iPads and iPods for me and Hubby, and a new iPhone for him.

That was a serious load of cash to drop in one day. My work is done. :laughing:
 
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