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Does anyone have a grasp over the difference between an ENTJ and an ESTJ? I looked through the one thread that went over this topic, and I got a lot of conflicting answers followed with debate, which is something that left more questions than answers. From what I gather, the general difference is that one's more long term in thinking while the other is more short term.
 

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Does anyone have a grasp over the difference between an ENTJ and an ESTJ? I looked through the one thread that went over this topic, and I got a lot of conflicting answers followed with debate, which is something that left more questions than answers. From what I gather, the general difference is that one's more long term in thinking while the other is more short term.
My quick litmus test is usually "are they a boss or a leader"
 

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Why stay away? of all drugs, psychedelics do the least amount of harm to the user/harm to others, alcohol is the worst. I respect bolderousness view, because it's consistent "stay away from all drugs" are you the same way?
Psychedelics can be environmental triggers for people who are genetically prone to schizophrenia. Weed too with heavy and regular use, particularly if young when they began heavy usage. Apparently, abusing alcohol too.
 

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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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For clarity, what's the inherent difference?
I always thought of it this way:

Boss - tells you what to do, how to do it, doesn't want any ideas or input from you, has more of a "my way or the highway" approach, looks over your shoulder. Will penalize you for noncompliance, or tardiness in completing the task. (I, you) Oversees.

Leader: explains to you what needs doing and how your part of the projects fits in the with whole, what the end result should be, leaves you to get it done, is open to your ideas and suggestions, and checks back with you to see if you need anything. Will roll up his sleeves and work with you to get it done, giving you instruction and helping you, if needed. (We) Inspires.

See Jobs quote in my sig.
 

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My subjective definition of the two.

Boss - someone given the authority by brass to tell you what to do.

Leader - someone that people willingly follow.

People can be leaders and bosses so I'm uncertain if you can differentiate the types in this manner.

ESTJs micromanage where ENTJs give you sufficient rope so you can hang or pull yourself up. Your choice.
 

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For clarity, what's the inherent difference?
I don't belong here but I wanted to answer anyway. *defiance*

Edit: this was meant for your first post on ESTJ/ENTJ, not the boss/leader one, my mistake :confused:

https://www.psychologyjunkie.com/2016/12/15/si-user-ni-user-difference-introverted-sensing-introverted-intuition/

The straight answer is that one uses Si than Ni and yet that's no answer at all.

Si and Ni are both analyzing functions but one is more centered on concrete data and established facts or rules, while the other is more abstract and focuses more readily on patterns and ideas. I think reading the article above can go more in depth into how they differ and it'd be easier to see which is which.

Tertiary functions are also useful in this regard.

The way I like to think of Si/Ne is making a decision based on "what is," using Ne to consider multiple abstract probabilities.
Ni/Se is making a decision on "what could be," using Se to consider concrete ways to get there.

Also:

-Give two ETJs a repetitive task: check up on them later and one in particular lowkey looks like he's ready to die.

-Suddenly pull the divine strings of fate on two ETJs: one will be having a minor existential crisis on the inside.

-Both are anGErY, turn to fluff when stressed, go straight to work after hearing "you need 2 months of rest", and have cannon-like eyes.

-ENTJ gives more cheetah-like vibes, ESTJ is more gorilla.

 
that which is in red is not to be taken too seriously
 

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ESTJs micromanage where ENTJs give you sufficient rope so you can hang or pull yourself up. Your choice.
^^^^
 

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My subjective definition of the two.

Boss - someone given the authority by brass to tell you what to do.

Leader - someone that people willingly follow.

People can be leaders and bosses so I'm uncertain if you can differentiate the types in this manner.

ESTJs micromanage where ENTJs give you sufficient rope so you can hang or pull yourself up. Your choice.
Should you choose to hang yourself:

ESTJ: Lookit that? Couldn't even tie a proper slipknot!
ENTJ: Hey, they made it work. Good for them!
 

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Why Fi-blast is so scary to ENTJs and they label it as "drama" instead of trying to understand where the other person comes from?

:frustrating:
 

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Why Fi-blast is so scary to ENTJs and they label it as "drama" instead of trying to understand where the other person comes from?

:frustrating:
It usually means you internalized and didn't communicate factual and tactile issues along the way and now basic emotions are billowing out with the root causes still hidden.

Essentially we see it as a waste of time and are usually already fairly triggered in own special way by the time we trigger someone else.
 

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It usually means you internalized and didn't communicate factual and tactile issues along the way and now basic emotions are billowing out with the root causes still hidden.

Essentially we see it as a waste of time and are usually already fairly triggered in own special way by the time we trigger someone else.
I see, thanks, that makes sense.

Even if there were several "warnings" along the way, based on factual data, past experiences and hopes&dreams for my interaction with them, my feelings did came out as a blast, out of frustration.
If they were labeled drama = too much to endure, then there's no future since I am entitle to express my feelings as they come.
I thought ENTJs would have thicker skin...
This one was unhealthy then...
 

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Sorry if this has been asked already, lack time to go through previous pages. I'm on break at work. Anyways. I keep seeing over and over and over from ENTJs (and ENFJs, but this isn't the forum lol) that they want to help scatterbrained people like INFPs to achieve their goals and that kind of thing. I can't for the life of me imagine that this would be true. Why? Because helping people is exhaaaaausting.

So the question is: Do you get exhausted helping people optimize their days, plan for their life goals, etc? WHEN they have extreme resistance to your advice and push you away over and over (although secretly want you around).
Do you get exhausted with extremely stubborn scatterbrains like INFPs, I'm telling you, I'm extremeeeely stubborn, and with ENTJs' advice I just push and push and argue with them... but secretly I want to shut up and jump like they say (don't tell them!).
I wonder how much and for how long I can push the ENTJs in my life who want to help me be more efficient. I actually love what they have to say, and I've been implementing some stuff little by little, but I'm a snail, I need time and space to process. But they don't know that I like their influence, cause I don't say it, in case they go "Oh you like pushy people? Well here's more of it!".
I imagine that you musn't have much patience for resistant people who move like snails and don't show results, even if they're your family or close friend and you care about them...?
 

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Sorry if this has been asked already, lack time to go through previous pages. I'm on break at work. Anyways. I keep seeing over and over and over from ENTJs (and ENFJs, but this isn't the forum lol) that they want to help scatterbrained people like INFPs to achieve their goals and that kind of thing. I can't for the life of me imagine that this would be true. Why? Because helping people is exhaaaaausting.

So the question is: Do you get exhausted helping people optimize their days, plan for their life goals, etc? WHEN they have extreme resistance to your advice and push you away over and over (although secretly want you around).
Do you get exhausted with extremely stubborn scatterbrains like INFPs, I'm telling you, I'm extremeeeely stubborn, and with ENTJs' advice I just push and push and argue with them... but secretly I want to shut up and jump like they say (don't tell them!).
I wonder how much and for how long I can push the ENTJs in my life who want to help me be more efficient. I actually love what they have to say, and I've been implementing some stuff little by little, but I'm a snail, I need time and space to process. But they don't know that I like their influence, cause I don't say it, in case they go "Oh you like pushy people? Well here's more of it!".
I imagine that you musn't have much patience for resistant people who move like snails and don't show results, even if they're your family or close friend and you care about them...?


Honestly, I get you. My dad is an ESTJ, and we do something similar. Any advice or unsolicited suggestions he'd give me over a problem would go over my head or back at him. It's not like they didn't have merit, I even applied them after the arguments, but it's that I could never immediately shift gears in front of him because I'm already set on doing something else. I'm pretty sure your relationship with your ENTJs aren't exactly like that with my dad, but I get the mindset.

I'm a live and let live type. If you want advice, I'm going to give you my opinion. My advice is now on the table, and whether you take it is up to you. I got my own shit to do, and it's not through telling others how to live their life. I hated it when people did that shit with me. Depending on the person, though, I can be extremely patient. If I had an SO, I'd take every day in the week to help her with any issue she has. If she rejects my advice, then I'll let her do what she wants after a discussion as to why. If the end result is good, then everyone wins, right? If not, well, I hope she learned from it. I'm still there if she'd need anything.
 

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No, this is not typical ENTJ behavior. We don't like to argue for sport - when we do, it is to get to the truth - the exchange of accurate information, not because we love to debate for fun. Actually, this behavior sounds like an ENTP - they love to argue the opposing side for entertainment.

Regardless, this is not typical ENTJ behavior. I'm sorry to hear this. In terms of compatibility issues, have you heard of the enneagram? It deals more with hidden motivations and defense mechanisms - it also presents a chance to grow and develop. If you are looking for answers, I think you have a higher success rate if you start there.


HI, istp here (with a lot of maps for this.)

That's an abusive relationship.

It's called emotional abuse. Crazy making. I don't know your situation and how you feel about it but I do know what that looks like. Nobody does this just because of their type. People who are insecure and don't want anyone to challenge their opinions act like this. People who have been hurt a lot and therefore decided to become the one in control do this. This is not a safe person to put your brain meets around. This is probably also the reason why you are starting to believe his crap about you because they need you to believe it to feel safe. Please don't and get help. But don't make it too obvious you're trying to get out cuz they also have Tantrums. I'm sure you've already witnessed an adult tantrum from this person. Insecurity is an ugly thing when you let it run your life. My heart goes out to you.

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Are you asking me a question?

Are you asking the OP a question?

EDIT:

You're quoting the wrong person here. :wink:
Yeah, sorry, I saw that just now too. Can't find the one anymore though. I'll change it if you can point me in the right direction.

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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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Sorry if this has been asked already, lack time to go through previous pages. I'm on break at work. Anyways. I keep seeing over and over and over from ENTJs (and ENFJs, but this isn't the forum lol) that they want to help scatterbrained people like INFPs to achieve their goals and that kind of thing. I can't for the life of me imagine that this would be true. Why? Because helping people is exhaaaaausting.

So the question is: Do you get exhausted helping people optimize their days, plan for their life goals, etc? WHEN they have extreme resistance to your advice and push you away over and over (although secretly want you around).
Do you get exhausted with extremely stubborn scatterbrains like INFPs, I'm telling you, I'm extremeeeely stubborn, and with ENTJs' advice I just push and push and argue with them... but secretly I want to shut up and jump like they say (don't tell them!).
I wonder how much and for how long I can push the ENTJs in my life who want to help me be more efficient. I actually love what they have to say, and I've been implementing some stuff little by little, but I'm a snail, I need time and space to process. But they don't know that I like their influence, cause I don't say it, in case they go "Oh you like pushy people? Well here's more of it!".
I imagine that you musn't have much patience for resistant people who move like snails and don't show results, even if they're your family or close friend and you care about them...?
If I care about you, and if I can, I'll help you if you ask for it. If I think I can solve your problem, or give you input that will help you solve it, I'm always available to help. In other words, if you want and ask for my help, I'm there for you. I can be very patient in that regard. As long as you put forth the effor to change, I'm in for the duration.

Where I'm not patient is with someone who wastes my time. If you ask for help, but don't heed the advice, you're not really looking for help, you're just bitching about your problem. Whining. I'm not going to enable that. You're wasting my time, and yours.
 
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