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how do you reckon an ISFJ and EXTJ would work out in a relationship?
Personally, my romantic approach to ISFJs is "no".

I've had enough ISFJ girlfriends, and even an ISFJ mom to know that the relationship will just be frustrating at best.

(PS. MBTI is not an exact science, I'm just against dating people who cant adapt to change, ignore rationality when it will offend them and function with pointless altruism.)
 

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how do you reckon an ISFJ and EXTJ would work out in a relationship?

Personally, my romantic approach to ISFJs is "no".

I've had enough ISFJ girlfriends, and even an ISFJ mom to know that the relationship will just be frustrating at best.

(PS. MBTI is not an exact science, I'm just against dating people who cant adapt to change, ignore rationality when it will offend them and function with pointless altruism.)
That ^^^

Never dated an ISFJ, but from relationships with a few, I don’t want a romantic relationship with them
 

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so you have to resrpt to an argument of authority without actually scrutinizing that person's work and just assuming that he is right too just because the claimed he's right where his work has not been replicated. Can you guide me through his work step by step where he concluded that everything that Jung claimed has been confirmed ? What separates him from other snake oil salesmen and what about his work makes it superior and irrefutable?

If you're going to drop a name, then don't just drop a name and not provide at least a snapshot of that person's work.
The problem is twofold. The first is that after several years to study the MBTI, you do not know Diaro Nardi.

The second is that your thought is intrasquely arborescent and turned toward pure abstraction. While my thinking is more decisive is turned toward a minimum physical world. So this debate will never end. You function as an energetic vampire for me. But if you are so curious, he has a web site.
 

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The problem is twofold. The first is that after several years of study of the MBTI, you do not know Diaro Nardi.

The second is that your thought is intrasquely arborescent and turned pure abstraction. While my thinking is more decisive is turned toward a minimum physical world. So this debate will never end. You function as an energetic vampire for me. But if you are so curious, he has a web site.
Nope. The problem here is that you don't understand the most simple concept of what is a claim and what is its proof.

This has nothing to do with physical or abstract. Claims requiring that they be proven is not abstract thought and someone skirting questions is not concrete.

This is a failure based on someoje (you) believing something to be true without proof and another (me) saying it requires proof in order to be accepted.

It's a classic disbeliever vs believer argument. You accept things on faith, I do not.
 

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.
It's a classic disbeliever vs believer argument. You accept things on faith, I do not.
Yes, sound Great. But disbeliever in a psychologic system doen't mean you are the rational man like in your religious forum. That just mean you don't belive in this system. No more.

As some people prefer capitalism, socialism... It's just a choice. No science here. But science can help to validade the accuracy of a system.

You have a big problem to distinguish system an science.

If this system is bad, precise exactly where, and don't take a defensive posture. Just try to write: I don't belive in this system....--» affirmation... Not affirmation-question.

But as you are NTP in this system, It's very logically difficult for you.
 

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Yes, sound Great. But disbeliever in a psychologic system doen't mean you are the rational man like in your religious forum. That just mean you don't belive in this system. No more.

As some people prefer capitalism, socialism... It's just a choice. No science here. But science can help to validade the accuracy of a system.

You have a big problem to distinguish system an science.

If this system is bad, precise exactly where, and don't take a defensive posture. Just try to write: I don't belive in this system....--» affirmation... Not affirmation-question.

But as you are NTP in this system, It's very logically difficult for you.
Still completely skirting the issue of proof.

The belief itself is irrational - but as logical flows once you accept the original premise, anything that follows only seems true based on rational thought following from the premise - but if the premise itself is untrue then what follows from it is wrong - even if it is rational.
 

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how do you reckon an ISFJ and EXTJ would work out in a relationship?
My best friend is an ISFP. We're very close,in fact everyone thought we were dating for the longest time, but no. No way that would ever work. He is more like family. You know, in the same way that you love them but also want to strangle the ever-loving-shit out of them on a regular basis.

What is most annoying is that I swear we speak a different language. he has NO N ( neither e nor i). If I make any sort of pause in the conversation, if I refer to something we've been talking about for an hour as " it" or "That" he gets really mad and says " I don't know what "That" is!" :laughing:
 

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Nope. This is completely wrong on all levels. Asking for proof of the existence of something is not being "dogmatic".

The burden of proof is on the individuals who make the claims. If you read Jung's Archetype theory, you'll see that there are an incredible amount of claims made with no evidence provided for those claims nor put through rigorous testing. The premise being assumed to be true then has had more theories added to it instead of the original claims even being tested.

The burden of proof in this case is on Jung and Jungian followers to demystify their claims and substantiate them evidence. I've asked for evidence of proof of the existence of the functions. If you or Jung or others that follow his work can't provide that proof then that's real dogmatism.

For example, if a religious person claims that there is a god (in this case let's say it's Jung's unconscious mind), then the burden of proof of the existence of God (or the existence of the unconscious mind) is on those who claim there is one, not on those who demand evidence for its existence. To believe that what Jung has said is true is based on irrational acceptance of someone's word on their word - akin to accepting the word of a prophet - without demanding evidence --- hence why the close association with mysticism. The same is true for MBTI as well as Enneagram.



False equivalency.

Also, you're skirting my questions instead of answering them directly. Pull your head out of assuming that something is true and question the validity of its original premise.
You love to skip my point! But anyways. MBTI not a science. But still a very much applicable system, even more than many sciences like medicine and psychiatry (which has the uttermost negative intended scientific papers to the scrutiny that currently medicine is). I6t's even a more dynamic system than psychiatric approaches with scientific basis that in the end are very wrong.
 

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My best friend is an ISFP. We're very close,in fact everyone thought we were dating for the longest time, but no. No way that would ever work. He is more like family. You know, in the same way that you love them but also want to strangle the ever-loving-shit out of them on a regular basis.

What is most annoying is that I swear we speak a different language. he has NO N ( neither e nor i). If I make any sort of pause in the conversation, if I refer to something we've been talking about for an hour as " it" or "That" he gets really mad and says " I don't know what "That" is!" :laughing:
I was thinking if an INFP or ENFP would be better than the SFPs for these cases where intuition is necessary between the two... I hear a lot about INTJs with ENFPs working out... I have an ESFP friend by the way and this happens a lot.
 

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Nope. Just nope.
But is a clue that this system is acceptable on a very wide range. When something is acceptable to work and everywhere (globally) there is a consensus where proof is seen as irrelevant to take as something that works everywhere. You just have to see by yourself, there are somethings that are just like that (even though there are so many works and basis where Carl Jung and Briggs Myers used to support the development of the MBTI).
Astrology is just like that because the way it is designed (as I investigated) was made for every sign be ready to have an astral map for everyone that no matter how different it is, there is always some aster on some sign to explain why everyone is the way they are according to their primary signs. The random information given is applicable to all the signs, it doesn't matter. While they claim it's not... that each sign has a tendency according to birth and that the gravitational pull of Mars had more influence on the brain development of that child than the gravitational pull of the obstetrician...! (Carl Sagan quoted that)
While on MBTI there is claim of possibility for one personality to change into another (and through the MBTI system it can be explained how to).
You have to read and research what is to be read, the so called "proofs" are there.
 

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My best friend is an ISFP. We're very close,in fact everyone thought we were dating for the longest time, but no. No way that would ever work. He is more like family. You know, in the same way that you love them but also want to strangle the ever-loving-shit out of them on a regular basis.

What is most annoying is that I swear we speak a different language. he has NO N ( neither e nor i). If I make any sort of pause in the conversation, if I refer to something we've been talking about for an hour as " it" or "That" he gets really mad and says " I don't know what "That" is!" :laughing:
I wonder if socionics duals are as great as they are theoretically supposed to be. There must be this attraction and repulsion going on at the same time.
 

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If you had the money to buy and island, and you did buy an island, what would you do with or on the island?
 

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I was thinking if an INFP or ENFP would be better than the SFPs for these cases where intuition is necessary between the two... I hear a lot about INTJs with ENFPs working out... I have an ESFP friend by the way and this happens a lot.
Fi/Te and Te/Fi go great but that Ne/Si Ni/Se can clash and make both uncomfortable or annoyed with each other.

INFP might make witty puns and jokes that are meant to be interpreted in some unclear way, ENTJ might not interpret what INFP meant.

ENTJ might make some direct one liner jokes that are only meant to be interpreted one way, INFP might interpret it it too many different ways.

I imagine that's how Ne and Ni miss each other.

When stressed INFP might seek comfort in familiar things and foods and calm enviroments and ENTJ might seek release in new sensations and foods and exciting environments or physical exertion like working out.

That's just my guess on the Si/Se clash. Clash because ENTJ might become tired and bored of INFPs routine of food and comfort, and INFP might become exhausted by ENTJs wild adventures or need to physical exert oneself.

Also clash when it comes to productivity, ENTJ might want to kick their plans into gear immediately, INFP might want to kick into gear when ready, both will piss each other off here. The mantra might be (ENTJ: You're trying to hold things back, INFP: your trying to push forward too soon, ENTJ finally says get out my way, INFP feels disrespected, ENTJ sees that as unimportant, steamroll commences.) INFPs Si wasn't ready to go into Te yet, and ENTJ sees no Te value in convincing the INFP that they need to Se right now! They will say, "JUST DO IT!".

Clash on both sides because INFP is putting pressure on the ENTJ's Si, which is their ignored function, by saying they need to accommodate the INFPs comfort level, and the ENTJ is putting pressure on the INFP's Se, the INFP ignored function, by saying they need to act RIGHT NOW!<<<This clash can suck BTW. Both parties can feel physical rage and physical discomfort from this.(Maybe you are experiencing some from just reading this.)

And lastly the flirt styles may differ because of Ne/Si Ni/Se differences. INFP flirting with the witty banter and re-using past catch phrases from popular movies/shows or previous conversations to convey new messages. ENTJ flirt style from my observation seems to be along the lines of sexual innuendo and playful antagonizing. INFP style might seem to whimsical or evasive to ENTJ and ENTJ style might seem to raunchy or forceful to the INFP.

These are a bunch of guesses though based of cognitive functions, but I do notice that between INFP and ENTJ there is a pull towards each other sometimes that seems to feel interesting but has the feeling of a hint incompatibility with it.

But then again, ask @Sangoire she can write a book on how to make ENTJ/INFP work, she has explained the whole process on what she has had to do with her ENTJ husband.



I wonder if socionics duals are as great as they are theoretically supposed to be. There must be this attraction and repulsion going on at the same time.
Yea I think your right about the attraction and repulsion at the same time. They are theoretically supposed to be "great" because both partners naturally support the other's weakness, that's mostly what sets it apart from other relations. Other relations can start off more comfortable than the dual one but will not have as much support for your weakness. So depending on the relationship someone is looking for they might want their dual or not. If one is seeking complimentary support than dual is the best option, but if someone is looking for someone who is equal to the way they are with slight differences (most people are looking for that) than dual will seem like a bad choice.
 

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If you had the money to buy and island, and you did buy an island, what would you do with or on the island?
Some people I know did this. The highest and best use for such islands seems to be a small resort getaway for wealthy guests, like Robinson Crusoe glamping. These are in high demand these days. Aquaculture farming is good for keeping the guests entertained.

It's interesting how extreme romantic experiences require a substantial amount of long term capital investment. It seems incongruous in a way that having wonder and mystery of doing something like living in a treehouse jungle village with zip lines would take lots of cash.
 

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Some people I know did this. The highest and best use for such islands seems to be a small resort getaway for wealthy guests, like Robinson Crusoe glamping. These are in high demand these days. Aquaculture farming is good for keeping the guests entertained.

It's interesting how extreme romantic experiences require a substantial amount of long term capital investment. It seems incongruous in a way that having wonder and mystery of doing something like living in a treehouse jungle village with zip lines would take lots of cash.
Hahaaa, yea seems backwards almost lol.
 

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If you had the money to buy and island, and you did buy an island, what would you do with or on the island?
Depends, can I gather anything there of value? Is it next to a hot vacation spot?
Then I'd build a farm // rent out to hotels etc.

If not, sell the island, make a proper investment.
 
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