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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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What book changed the way you viewed the world the most?

It wasn’t a book that was profound, or of great importance, or on a list of recommended reading, it was a fun read, which is precisely why it was impactful.

I got it at the book fair in junior high school. A publishing house would come to our school for week and set up camp in the library. Each English class would “field trip” to the library to view the stacks of books for sale - tables and tables piled high with them - paperbacks in every genre and topic available.

This was at a time (I’m old... lol) when Amazon didn’t exist, bookstores were small Mom&Pop type brick-fronts, and you had to go out of your way to find books, so this was a huuuuuge deal. We were given a small canvas bookbag (supplied by the publisher) and coupon good for one free book, and could spend the hour browsing and loading up our bags. You could buy whatever and as much as you wanted.

We were poor(ish), and my parents were immigrants who were not only functionally illiterate in English, but in their own language (German), as well. They grew up in Germany during WWII. My father didn’t make it beyond the 5th grade, my mother, 2nd grade. They had difficulty reading the newspaper in either language. Books were never a part of their life, and they didn’t understand my hunger for them. As I was growing up, we never had any books in the house, and my only exposure to them was through school and the school library.

I had no money of my own to buy books, and my parents never bought me any, so, there was no money for me to buy any books at that book fair ... but I did have that free coupon. Faced with the tormenting anguish of only being able to get one book - there were hundreds of different titles available —how can you choose just one? I decided to pick something fun. I asked the rep from the publishing company what he thought was the funniest thing he read lately. He handed me a copy of “The Hot Rock” by Donald E. Westlake. I used my free coupon for it.

It was a ridiculous “caper” story, where anything and everything goes wrong, completely pointless fluff ... I loved it. It was the first thing I had ever read for pleasure. Cashing in my “free” coupon for that book is what created my love for reading anything and everything I could get my hands on. Having books around was a simple thing that others took for granted, but for me, that day and that book sparked my love of reading, learning, and laughing at the absurdity of things.

I still read at least 100 books a year. With each one, I expand my world view, and learn something new. And it all started with “Here read this. It’s funny.”

For those of you who have read it ... “Afghanistan banana stand” :wink:
 

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INFJ 3w2
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You know, I just realized that I might not be the best at handling ENTJ meltdowns as all I seem to do is just try to offer big picture perspectives from my Ni and suggestions on how to fix the problem, and I’m thinking that’s not what they want. Maybe they just need to be heard?

How do I approach an ENTJ who is venting to me?
 

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You know, I just realized that I might not be the best at handling ENTJ meltdowns as all I seem to do is just try to offer big picture perspectives from my Ni and suggestions on how to fix the problem, and I’m thinking that’s not what they want. Maybe they just need to be heard?

How do I approach an ENTJ who is venting to me?
Just don’t suggest something they’ve already considered.

The real right answer depends on your definition of melt down and your definition of vent.
 
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Just don’t suggest something they’ve already considered.

The real right answer depends on your definition of melt down and your definition of vent.
Ha. I think he's generally always considered everything. When I say meltdown, I mean on the verge of tears and occasionally in a bathroom stall crying in frustration about his job. So past the point of no return. And he's stuck there for the moment, in a place where he commands zero respect, and has no authority. He works with a bunch of...how do I put this delicately...retards...that spin their wheels constantly and who are more concerned with group morale and feeling like God's ordained snowflakes than actually making a well functioning product while somehow by dumb luck continue to remain successful. I know these people, and it is as absolutely horrible as it sounds. He's trying to get out and has plans to, but I think it's just the in between of waiting for the plans to kick in that has him feeling like he's going insane.

It's not a pretty thing to watch an ENTJ deteriorate to this point. I'm just trying to be a listening ear when he texts or calls me, as I know I'm one of the only people he will do that with, but it's difficult not to use my Te to blurt out suggestions, because Inf Fi = I have no idea what to do.

Maybe he needs a physical distraction in the meantime? :wink:
 

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Hi,

are ENTJ women more "emotional" than ENTJ men? I have got a new ENTJ acquaintance (a female, as I am) and she's lovely. Maybe she's different at work but with me she's openly emotional, sweet and of course we get on marvellously from the first instance. Whilst I have known several ENTJ men (with whom I have also got on great) she's the first female of your type I've met.

She's quite a bit younger and has a boyfriend. An emotional intimacy is being developed but it's platonic. She thinks she's somewhat insecure around me, feeling a bit less "intelligent". I have told her there's no reason to feel insecure. Somehow she's impressed by me and has let it be known. Does that mean I'm "in"? Haha.

I'm so lucky to have found her!

ETA: she's a confirmed ENTJ. Took the test several times in school, at university and at work.
 

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Hi,

are ENTJ women more "emotional" than ENTJ men? I have got a new ENTJ acquaintance (a female, as I am) and she's lovely. Maybe she's different at work but with me she's openly emotional, sweet and of course we get on marvellously from the first instance. Whilst I have known several ENTJ men (with whom I have also got on great) she's the first female of your type I've met.

She's quite a bit younger and has a boyfriend. An emotional intimacy is being developed but it's platonic. She thinks she's somewhat insecure around me, feeling a bit less "intelligent". I have told her there's no reason to feel insecure. Somehow she's impressed by me and has let it be known. Does that mean I'm "in"? Haha.

I'm so lucky to have found her!

ETA: she's a confirmed ENTJ. Took the test several times in school, at university and at work.
I doubt that you'd get any consensus to your question however I did have a question based off what you wrote.
Can you elaborate on what "openly emotional" with you - means?
 

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@NT the DC, thanks.

She displays empathy and emotions, is not afraid to show her vulnerable side. I notice she also uses the word "feel" more often than "think", whilst I never say "I feel...". Maybe her T is on the low side. Some of the things she says to me are romantic AF but that's because affectionate expressions for same sex friends are totally normal in her culture. Also, she is very feminine and soft-spoken. Our chemistry is amazing.

I have been reading about ENTJs but there's not much out there about the female counterpart. Our personalities share many similarities but her feeling side I find surprising (my T is high).
 

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Do you guys try to maximize efficiency for every little thing, or do you only do it when it's something you really care about?

For example, with menial tasks- i.e. loading the dishwasher, I find myself thinking that there is probably a better way to Tetris this, but at the moment, I can't be bothered to care. Got shit to do and this is not on my radar.
 

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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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Discussion Starter #4,030
Do you guys try to maximize efficiency for every little thing, or do you only do it when it's something you really care about?

For example, with menial tasks- i.e. loading the dishwasher, I find myself thinking that there is probably a better way to Tetris this, but at the moment, I can't be bothered to care. Got shit to do and this is not on my radar.

“tetris the dishwasher” :laughing:


In my house, I can tell you exactly where to find the silver-handled cheese knife, the black shoe polish, and the eyeglass repair kit. They’re where they’re supposed to be—where it makes the most sense—so I don’t spend time rummaging for them, later. I know where the navy slingback pumps that go with my navy-striped dress are so I don’t waste time getting dressed. My pens and pencils are in the cup point-side down so I don’t shish kebab myself on them. So, design the system for maximum efficiency and time saving.


I’m not fussy about transient stuff —like tetris-ing the dishwasher, or hanging the towels “just so”, or squeezing the toothpaste from the bottom. There are dirty dishes in the sink.

I’m hyper-organized but not anal retentive. :wink:
 
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Do you guys try to maximize efficiency for every little thing, or do you only do it when it's something you really care about?

For example, with menial tasks- i.e. loading the dishwasher, I find myself thinking that there is probably a better way to Tetris this, but at the moment, I can't be bothered to care. Got shit to do and this is not on my radar.
Pretty much everything. The other day, I was annoyed at myself for inefficiency, not putting something to boil on the stove while I prepped ingredients since it wasted seven minutes (time it takes for burner to heat up and for liquid to boil). To make up for it, I unpacked the dishwasher while waiting for the boil and felt better about it, lol.
 

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Pretty much everything. The other day, I was annoyed at myself for inefficiency, not putting something to boil on the stove while I prepped ingredients since it wasted seven minutes (time it takes for burner to heat up and for liquid to boil). To make up for it, I unpacked the dishwasher while waiting for the boil and felt better about it, lol.
If 7 minutes already triggers this, how do you deal with serious time-sinks that are inefficient in the short-mid term? For example any investments into balance? (e.g. "Fi" development)
 

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If 7 minutes already triggers this, how do you deal with serious time-sinks that are inefficient in the short-mid term? For example any investments into balance? (e.g. "Fi" development)
You're taking my post way too seriously and from the wrong perspective. Not only that but it's not possible to consciously force the development of an inferior function of any type since the inferior is in the deep unconscious. It has to happen organically.
 

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You're taking my post way too seriously and from the wrong perspective. Not only that but it's not possible to consciously force the development of an inferior function of any type since the inferior is in the deep unconscious. It has to happen organically.
I think with an ENTJ, any serious time sinks that are inefficient in the short term will be delegated to someone else. So this problem is never a problem in the first place. ;D
 

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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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Discussion Starter #4,035
Pretty much everything. The other day, I was annoyed at myself for inefficiency, not putting something to boil on the stove while I prepped ingredients since it wasted seven minutes (time it takes for burner to heat up and for liquid to boil). To make up for it, I unpacked the dishwasher while waiting for the boil and felt better about it, lol.
Yes. Yes. And yes.

I forgot to turn on the oven to let it heat up while I made a pizza the other day and felt really annoyed with myself.

That’s 10 minutes I’ll never get back. :laughing:
 
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You're taking my post way too seriously and from the wrong perspective. Not only that but it's not possible to consciously force the development of an inferior function of any type since the inferior is in the deep unconscious. It has to happen organically.
The inferior in my experience is at the edge of the conscious/unconscious, with the anima/animus playing a bridging role. And yes the process is organic, but even organic processes need time and space to flourish.
 

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The inferior in my experience is at the edge of the conscious/unconscious, with the anima/animus playing a bridging role. And yes the process is organic, but even organic processes need time and space to flourish.
If so, there's no conscious development of such and Jung specifically warned against doing so since the conscious functions must be strong/well developed enough to handle them.

Psychological Types - CG Jung said:
A grouping of the unconscious functions also takes place in accordance with the relationship of the conscious functions. Thus, for instance, an unconscious intuitive feeling attitude may correspond with a conscious practical intellect, whereby the function of feeling suffers a relatively stronger inhibition than intuition. This peculiarity, however, is of interest only for one who is concerned with the practical psychological treatment of such cases. But for such a man it is important to know about it. For I have frequently observed the way in which a physician, in the case for instance of an exclusively intellectual subject, will do his utmost to develop the feeling function directly out of the unconscious. This attempt must always come to grief, since it involves too great a violation of the conscious standpoint. Should such a violation succeed, there ensues a really compulsive dependence of the patient upon the physician, a 'transference' which can be amputated only by brutality, because such a violation robs the patient of a standpoint -- his physician becomes his standpoint. But the approach to the unconscious and to the most repressed function is disclosed, as it were, of itself, and with more adequate protection of the conscious standpoint, when the way of development is via the secondary function-thus in the case of a rational type by way of the irrational function. For this lends the conscious standpoint such a range and prospect over what is possible and imminent that consciousness gains an adequate protection against the destructive effect of the unconscious. Conversely, an irrational type demands a stronger development of the rational auxiliary function [p. 517] represented in consciousness, in order to be sufficiently prepared to receive the impact of the unconscious.

The unconscious functions are in an archaic, animal state. Their symbolical appearances in dreams and phantasies usually represent the battle or coming encounter of two animals or monsters.
And with the above in mind, there's no impact to the individual, specifically to ENTJs, since the development of the inferior is out of our control. It's like death, in that it's out of our control and is inevitable so it's nothing to worry about beyond insurance policies and wills to ease the way for our loved ones.

Anyways, that's why you're perceiving the issue from the wrong perspective. Efficiency doesn't factor into issues that are out of our control. And if you haven't figured it out, ENTJs as a generality, aren't worry warts like INTJs and STJs.
 

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If so, there's no conscious development of such and Jung specifically warned against doing so since the conscious functions must be strong/well developed enough to handle them.
I agree with you, for a large part at least. But there comes a time when conscious play with the inferior will start emerging, and at that time conscious choices will influence how the process unfolds (do you embrace it or resist it?). In my case that correlated with the appearance of the anima in a set of dreams in my mid 20s + a few years to let the process unfold far enough for there to be some conscious awareness of the inferior. Sample size 1 limitations obviously apply.

And with the above in mind, there's no impact to the individual, specifically to ENTJs, since the development of the inferior is out of our control. It's like death, in that it's out of our control and is inevitable so it's nothing to worry about beyond insurance policies and wills to ease the way for our loved ones.

Anyways, that's why you're perceiving the issue from the wrong perspective. Efficiency doesn't factor into issues that are out of our control. And if you haven't figured it out, ENTJs as a generality, aren't worry warts like INTJs and STJs.
I guess that's a matter of perspective :tongue:
 

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I agree with you, for a large part at least. But there comes a time when conscious play with the inferior will start emerging, and at that time conscious choices will influence how the process unfolds (do you embrace it or resist it?). In my case that correlated with the appearance of the anima in a set of dreams in my mid 20s + a few years to let the process unfold far enough for there to be some conscious awareness of the inferior. Sample size 1 limitations obviously apply.
Anima/animus are shadow functions aka collective unconscious, not the tert/inferior functions. You do you and I'll do me.
 

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Anima/animus are shadow functions aka collective unconscious, not the tert/inferior functions. You do you and I'll do me.
And to think, all I asked was how you all like to load the dishwasher. Which reminds me, I really need to get someone to load my dishwasher.
 
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