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Birdie Borracho
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@MsBossyPants thanks for the reply. You say it's more new employee vs management and I disagree. If my bosses were ISTJ and ESTJ, for example, I'd have no problem knowing what to expect. The personality type conflict is real in that there's often conflict or tension between quasi-identical types, because most people don't understand how personalities work. Everyone on here knows that ENTJs use different functions than ENTPs, and so on with all the other corresponding pairs. Ever since I've been studying psychology, I've gotten along better with all the types, especially ENTJs. The issue with this job/life is that "nobody" knows these differences and my INTJ boss is definitely clueless. She doesn't know she's being bossy as she controls many aspects of my day. I have assigned breaks, lunch, and I have to clock in and out at specific times. Pretty normal if I'm working at McD, but an awful change of pace, for me, and pretty extreme for the type of work we do.

I've actually already screwed up, when I asked the INTJ if there was a way I could work with the data. Perhaps my Ne mind sees it as a harmless project in addition to my work and she might have seen it as a breach of the system? I'm manic bipolar so I happened to have thought it was a good idea at the time, as I was coming off an episode. The mania happens when it seems like life is too stagnant. I don't want to continue shooting myself in the foot which is why I came here to see how ENTJs perceive it. Honestly, I know I'm a corporate wreck, but I'm just trying to delay the inevitable. As you can see from signature, I understand that I'm not entitled to anything. But as both a type 7 enthusiast, and type 3 achiever, I notice my timeline for expecting something new is about 4 times faster than what a lot of people consider. So what I'll try to do, like you suggested, is get through 90 days first, and not become too fixated on the future.
 
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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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Discussion Starter #42 (Edited)
@MsBossyPants thanks for the reply. You say it's more new employee vs management and I disagree. If my bosses were ISTJ and ESTJ, for example, I'd have no problem knowing what to expect. The personality type conflict is real in that there's often conflict or tension between quasi-identical types, because most people don't understand how personalities work. Everyone on here knows that ENTJs use different functions than ENTPs, and so on with all the other corresponding pairs. Ever since I've been studying psychology, I've gotten along better with all the types, especially ENTJs. The issue with this job/life is that "nobody" knows these differences and my INTJ boss is definitely clueless. She doesn't know she's being bossy as she controls many aspects of my day. I have assigned breaks, lunch, and I have to clock in and out at specific times. Pretty normal if I'm working at McD, but an awful change of pace, for me, and pretty extreme for the type of work we do.

I've actually already screwed up, when I asked the INTJ if there was a way I could work with the data. Perhaps my Ne mind sees it as a harmless project in addition to my work and she might have seen it as a breach of the system? I'm manic bipolar so I happened to have thought it was a good idea at the time, as I was coming off an episode. The mania happens when it seems like life is too stagnant. I don't want to continue shooting myself in the foot which is why I came here to see how ENTJs perceive it. Honestly, I know I'm a corporate wreck, but I'm just trying to delay the inevitable. As you can see from signature, I understand that I'm not entitled to anything. But as both a type 7 enthusiast, and type 3 achiever, I notice my timeline for expecting something new is about 4 times faster than what a lot of people consider. So what I'll try to do, like you suggested, is get through 90 days first, and not become too fixated on the future.
I actually have some experience with this scenario.

One thing to keep in mind - In the same way that you are constrained by what seems like the arbitrary rules of your job duties, your boss is constrained by hers.​ In a supervisory capacity, part of her duties may be insuring that breaks and lunches are taken in a timely, orderly fashion. Making sure no one punches in or out improperly so that it doesn't generate overtime pay, or that since you're getting paid to work 8 hours, you provide the full 8 hours. That you don't come back from lunch 20 minutes late. And so on. If you feel like she is singling you out - you're on probation, she's going to watch you more closely. You see this as trying to controll you, in her view she's trying to run a department. Her scope is larger. In short, her job is to make sure you do your job. This doesn't mean she is bossy. It means she is your boss.

Having to enforce rules on a particular employee, or on the whole department may actaully also seem arbitrary to her in the larger scope of what needs to get done, but she's responsible for seeing that those rules get enforced. I've had almost that exact job. I worked for a data entry company.

Quick overview:
**room full of employees at terminals, processing information 8am -5pm
**me, supervising the employees
**assigned lunches, breaks

I'm sitting at my desk thinking - this is stupid.
**Why 8 -5? It's not like someone has to be here at 8:00 am to pick up a phone and talk to a customer.
**It doesn't matter if 4 people go to lunch at the same time, they're still going to be here for 8 hours why do we have to stagger lunches every 15 minutes?
**Why do people have to punch in at exactly 8:00? If they punch in 5 minutes late, they can punch out 5 minutes late.
**Every time someone punches in late or leaves early, we lose productivity.
[and so on]

The conclusion: It doesn't matter WHEN you put in your 8. We need a flextime. Duh. But my ENTJ butt is sitting in the chair having to enforce this nonsense. Why? because was my job. It wasn't until I got promoted that I could lobby for change. I instituted a flexible schedule of 6 am - 6 pm. Come anytime, work your eight hours. Doctor's appointment? Need an extra long lunch hour to pick up your kid from school and drop him off at the babysitter's? Do it. Punch out, come back, finish your full shift. Go to lunch whenever you want. Take your break with your buddy. Everybody is happy. Productivity went up. Simple problem, that was easily solved.

But in the meantime, I had to sit at the desk and enforce that 8-5 nonsense. Doesn't mean I was happy about it. Employees probably thought I was clueless and bossy.
 
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My boss is an INTJ, so dealing with her belongs on a different thread. My boss's boss, is an ENTJ. I have a corporate job and the work I do is a step above clerical, but barely. I graduated 3 years ago, bounced around some contract jobs and I'm 26. My weekly production is at 140% of what's required while most people are 90-110%. I'm going into my third month and I've been consistent, except one day where I was an hour & half late after sleeping through the alarm. I knew better than to make excuses and owned up to it, and it seems to have passed (happened last week).

With this in mind, my ambition is to get involved with data analysis. The ENTJ does some of the spreadsheets that deal with the numbers and I've independently calculated them on my own and build a database from scratch. My actual data is not useful, since they already have it, but I did this to show that I am capable of working with data and I have natural analytic abilities, as I've typed up a report of what I've done. I told the INTJ about this, but she wasn't impressed because she copy and pastes an SQL entry to generate the data, which is something I'm learning. Also, if anyone is wondering how an ENTP can follow through with all of this, I take adderall.

Questions:
1. Because the INTJ was not impressed, could I risk going over her head to show the ENTJ what I've done?
2. If yes, how long should I wait to present?
3. How much could my tardy be held against me?

Psychologically, the ENTJ appears as a 8w7. At the very least she commands with enthusiasm. She's also 32 years old, so she might not be biased against younger employees. The INTJ is 1w9. I'm still learning to recognize Enneagram which is why I only listed the main type + wing.

Hopefully this structured and direct post also demonstrates that I am capable of addressing an ENTJ on their terms, but I might be out of my mind. After all, I didn't start my own "special snowflake" thread.
I might have something to add, just because of my age. Back when I had what I considered my first "real job" - in a field I thought was "it" for me, I had a similar situation. In my case, it was about seeing how the work flow and equipment used, was soooo ass backwards for the times. I wanted my immediate supervisor to see how smart I was; he wanted everybody to get along and for his days to be uneventful.

What I only came to recognize later in life, is that you can only see what you are exposed to in an organization. Many organizations have a model of operation, where changing the model, even a little, is very costly. So it can, for a while, cost a lot more to do things smarter, than to do things ass-backwards stupid. Because stupid has already been calculated for, smart has an unknown learning curve (even if better/smarter isn't cash intensive).

So I'm just saying what you think people in an organization would want, and what they actually want, is not only different than what you might think, but sometimes even stupid is not as stupid as you think it is when you are new. So don't write off the INTJ too quickly, even in your own mind. ?
 

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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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Discussion Starter #45
also I bet having your hands tied didn't help your personal demeanor as you got the fall out from the bs without a way to resolve it. aka ENTJ hell.
 

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I keep reading things about the worst situations for entjs to be in.... its it bad that over 75% of the bullets read verbatim of my current day to day job description? :dry:
Does one of them say Grunt Slave to your own Start-Up?

Send me a link.
 

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Does this mean you have delegation issues or cash flow constraints?
Wow! I appreciate your response! Substantive, concise, and challenges me to think critically! Touché.

We sell cold drinks at the beach strip-- cash flow isn't too big of an issue during this season.

Mostly personal resolve dwindling issues:

-I'm 30 and still bartending; no kids, no wife, or the other material benchmarks normative for my age and tax bracket. I could be a DC lobbyist or political pundit. But no.
-I'm tired of doing what I do. Ready for a change.

That's essentially it.

TL/DR: Delegation issues & Mild Entitlement /Type 3 issues. (Read: Pity Party, table of one? Pity Party, table of one, you may now be seated and STFU, Leslie.)

 
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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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Discussion Starter #50
I keep reading things about the worst situations for entjs to be in.... its it bad that over 75% of the bullets read verbatim of my current day to day job description? :dry:
Think of it as a free education. You're learning what not to do. What works and what doesn't, how to run your own company, what sort of problems those who will work for you have. Baptism by fire. It'll make you a better boss and more successful in the long run.

You want to talk about bad jobs for an ENTJ? When I was first starting out, I was a customer service rep for the phone company. :shocked: **shudders** It paid well, I needed the money.

In a sincere, pleasant, professional tone (after getting screamed and cursed at): "I'm so sorry that you were inconvenienced because our installer arrived while you were out, Mr Johnson. I'd be happy to schedule another appointment for you."

 
screaming on the inside: The installer was there at 9:30 -you agreed to between 8 and 12 - not that difficult, buy yourself a watch, fucknut :angry:


It taught me patience and diplomacy. Wasn't easy.
 
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Think of it as a free education. You're learning what not to do. What works and what doesn't, how to run your own company, what sort of problems those who will work for you have. Baptism by fire. It'll make you a better boss and more successful in the long run.

You want to talk about bad jobs for an ENTJ? When I was first starting out, I was a customer service rep for the phone company. :shocked: **shudders** It paid well, I needed the money.

In a sincere, pleasant, professional tone (after getting screamed and cursed at): "I'm so sorry that you were inconvenienced because our installer arrived while you were out, Mr Johnson. I'd be happy to schedule another appointment for you."

 
screaming on the inside: The installer was there at 9:30 -you agreed to between 8 and 12 - not that difficult, buy yourself a watch, fucknut :angry:


It taught me patience and diplomacy. Wasn't easy.
My first job at 15 was day camp counselor. :angry: Small. Children. No. Reasoning.
 

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Wow! I appreciate your response! Substantive, concise, and challenges me to think critically! Touché.

We sell cold drinks at the beach strip-- cash flow isn't too big of an issue during this season.

Mostly personal resolve dwindling issues:

-I'm 30 and still bartending; no kids, no wife, or the other material benchmarks normative for my age and tax bracket. I could be a DC lobbyist or political pundit. But no.
-I'm tired of doing what I do. Ready for a change.

That's essentially it.

TL/DR: Delegation issues & Mild Entitlement /Type 3 issues. (Read: Pity Party, table of one? Pity Party, table of one, you may now be seated and STFU, Leslie.)

Thanks for your reply, glad you took that the best possible way, as I intended it.

When I first struggled in a small biz niche (one I have to escape or transition from now). It was easy for people to say "get an intern" - but if you don't have a good job description for people - they cost you money even if they work for free!

Why do you think you don't have someone else manage your beach venture already?
 

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Thanks for your reply, glad you took that the best possible way, as I intended it.

When I first struggled in a small biz niche (one I have to escape or transition from now). It was easy for people to say "get an intern" - but if you don't have a good job description for people - they cost you money even if they work for free!

Why do you think you don't have someone else manage your beach venture already?
At some point, the entrepreneur faces a fork in the road: delegate and fly, or crash and die.

I'm beginning down the delegate and fly path. The system is in place; I just have to be patient.

It's like wanting long dreads with a fresh buzz cut. Keep twisting, keep grooming and eventually it will get there.

It's just sometimes I want to race to the end and screw the details; I want what I want when I want it and I wanted it yesterday.
 
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