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Are ENTJ's supposed to have a façade of sorts? How do you understand/experience our "weakest function" (Fi) ?

I specially would like to know other ENTJ type 8 thoughts.
ETNJ 8w7 here.

I think that because the brutal honesty we are gifted with is so rare misunderstood as "Being a big 'ol meany." many people project and assume that our honesty and confidence is a facade.

That has at least been my experience and it's lead to so many misunderstandings.

It has its downsides:

Being an ENTJ and an 8 I am a very stoic person ( outside the internet since words are all I have here) I can't tell you how many times my friends, dancing and jumping for joy have asked me "Aren't you excited!?" and I respond, arms crossed and completely expressionless "Yes. I'm very excited." On the inside I was in fact losing my shit with excitement.

Then every get's mad calls me no fun, or says " You don't have to be sarcastic all the time." and storms off. Once again, I' the big negative meany.

And upsides:

Pllaying cards with family. The get so intense and stressed out while I'm so relaxed they all think I'm stoned. ( never touched marijuana BTW) hell, I'll only be half-paying attention and driving them crazy with "Oh is it my turn?" and then beat them all. It pisses them off so much and they all think it's some sort o mind game. It really isn't. It's just how I am.
Why fix what isn't broken? :cool:

As for our weakest function, I don't understand it. I don't consider things I'm not good at. I suppose I should, but, eh.
 

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Anyway, I'm supposedly ENTJ and I identify with most traits in the description. Except, I read that ENTJ's "inferior Fi" (the <be true to yourself> function) makes them "forget what's important to them". What does this mean? I consider myself quite truthful in my decisions and I try to be fair and considerate to a certain extent with fellow humans.

Are ENTJ's supposed to have a façade of sorts? How do you understand/experience our "weakest function" (Fi) ?

I specially would like to know other ENTJ type
I'm an 8 and 3w4 and can't see any discernible difference in how they manifest.

I think it's especially difficult to introspective on introverted feeling because it's out weakest function.

I experience it as not having a firm sense of internal morality. I can usually put myself into anyone else's shoes and see what led them to make the choices that they did. This makes me exceptionally objective and able to argue both sides of any argument. I've become more aware of it since going back to school to study law, I'm terrible at making value judgements (what makes a person "right-thinking"?) and lose track of my own stance if it doesn't inflame my sense of social justice, I'll just feel apathy. I have a high tolerance for the questionable actions of friends, including violence, drugs, crime. I can make difficult decisions easily, like firing someone or supporting someone that wants to disown their unborn child. I should mention here that I'm not a psychopath.

I can put my feelings aside if required. I'll prioritize work over personal relationships, or walk away from someone I'm in love with if it looks like being with them isn't for the best.

I hope that gives you some indication.
 

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Honestly, I don't care about the "4 letter combination" and in general avoid discussing my type in person because once people know "your letters" they assume they have you figured out and overanalyse everything you said in base to your personality instead of substance in your argument.

Anyway, I'm supposedly ENTJ and I identify with most traits in the description. Except, I read that ENTJ's "inferior Fi" (the <be true to yourself> function) makes them "forget what's important to them". What does this mean? I consider myself quite truthful in my decisions and I try to be fair and considerate to a certain extent with fellow humans.

Are ENTJ's supposed to have a façade of sorts? How do you understand/experience our "weakest function" (Fi) ?

I specially would like to know other ENTJ type 8 thoughts.
It's not that you forget what's important to you, more like it takes a while to figure out exactly what that is, and how much value you assign to it.

It's applying not what others express as what should be important (majority opinion, social convention, etc) but instead what you assign importance to and think is worth fighting for. So, it IS a fair and honest measure of your own standards which tend to be applied objectively.

As an example, this quote:

"I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."

Objectively measured (Te) , I may think you are wrong, but the bigger issue that free speech not be silenced has value to me. (Fi)
 

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Your answers all makes much more sense! Thanks! @MsBossyPants answer was slightly more concrete, though.

I do have a sense of morality, but I dislike to reflect a lot on it, since I might loose objectivity. I sometimes wish I haven't know MBTI, because it gets in your head and makes you more self-conscious.

@Fumetsu
Yeah, I hate the whole "I'm a feeler, you're a rational; ergo, you're the asshole" thing.
I try to be polite and a lot of my comments are not meant to hurt people, they're just illustrative or funny. I expect others to give a witty comeback, not to get angry.
 

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- What would an ENTJ's stance towards conspiracy theories be? Interested? Or do you consider most of them to be too far fetched to even spend time on researching their validity?

- What role does humour/sarcasm play when debating a topic? Do you enjoy taking a controversial stance to draw people out and use sarcasm even if that means that the other doesn't get your point? Or do you stick to the facts, focus on content and want to convince others with your arguments?
 

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@Mr Canis (or others with extensive martial arts experience)... I would like to learn a martial art but I have fractures in my spine. Any ideas which (if any) martial art may be best in terms of not aggravating the injury?

My fitness level is average (previously it was appalling but I have taken steps to correct this). I am not a lean, mean fighting machine and I probably lack the discipline to become one. However I would like to learn to defend myself competently and I would like my fitness regime to incorporate some form of self defence.

Thank you.
 

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@Mr Canis (or others with extensive martial arts experience)... I would like to learn a martial art but I have fractures in my spine. Any ideas which (if any) martial art may be best in terms of not aggravating the injury?

My fitness level is average (previously it was appalling but I have taken steps to correct this). I am not a lean, mean fighting machine and I probably lack the discipline to become one. However I would like to learn to defend myself competently and I would like my fitness regime to incorporate some form of self defence.

Thank you.
one option could be aikido.
 

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@Mr Canis (or others with extensive martial arts experience)... I would like to learn a martial art but I have fractures in my spine. Any ideas which (if any) martial art may be best in terms of not aggravating the injury?

My fitness level is average (previously it was appalling but I have taken steps to correct this). I am not a lean, mean fighting machine and I probably lack the discipline to become one. However I would like to learn to defend myself competently and I would like my fitness regime to incorporate some form of self defence.

Thank you.
one option could be aikido.
I would agree with this. Aikido and Tai Chi would be great low and no impact(respectively) places to start. Keep your instructor in the know as to how you are feeling and listen to your body. Either will give some great foundation material, from which you can build you your next steps.
 

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- What would an ENTJ's stance towards conspiracy theories be? Interested? Or do you consider most of them to be too far fetched to even spend time on researching their validity?

- What role does humour/sarcasm play when debating a topic? Do you enjoy taking a controversial stance to draw people out and use sarcasm even if that means that the other doesn't get your point? Or do you stick to the facts, focus on content and want to convince others with your arguments?
On conspiracy theories, if it doesn't change anything, I don't care to pay attention. Too busy to research them.

I stick to facts because resorting to humor/sarcasm can inadvertently make me look emotional when I'm not.
 

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- What would an ENTJ's stance towards conspiracy theories be? Interested? Or do you consider most of them to be too far fetched to even spend time on researching their validity?

- What role does humour/sarcasm play when debating a topic? Do you enjoy taking a controversial stance to draw people out and use sarcasm even if that means that the other doesn't get your point? Or do you stick to the facts, focus on content and want to convince others with your arguments?
1) I mostly don't consider conspiracy theories to be any of my business. I vaguely understand political/financial concerns and how they might intertwine, but unless it's a subject I particularly look into, I don't consider it necessary to think about.

2) I actually dislike arguing/debating. I'll have the facts and understanding of concepts, if the conversation lead that way I'll provide them, but otherwise.. I suppose it depends on how much changing their opinion would benefit me/hinder me less.
 

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Honestly, I don't care about the "4 letter combination" and in general avoid discussing my type in person because once people know "your letters" they assume they have you figured out and overanalyse everything you said in base to your personality instead of substance in your argument.

Anyway, I'm supposedly ENTJ and I identify with most traits in the description. Except, I read that ENTJ's "inferior Fi" (the <be true to yourself> function) makes them "forget what's important to them". What does this mean? I consider myself quite truthful in my decisions and I try to be fair and considerate to a certain extent with fellow humans.

Are ENTJ's supposed to have a façade of sorts? How do you understand/experience our "weakest function" (Fi) ?

I specially would like to know other ENTJ type 8 thoughts.
ENTJ type 8 here. To me, Fi is the pain intolerance cognitive function aka the lack of ability to suck it up and suffer in order to achieve a goal.

I've observed that types with Fi high in their stack (INFPs, ISFPs, ESFPs, ENFPs) are much more resistant to doing what needs to be done if they aren't naturally comfortable with it or if they simply don't want to. Fi is taking the path of least resistance because 'I want to stay true to myself' even if the path of least resistance leads to somewhere bad.

For example, an ENFP who really wants to help people by saving lives as a doctor but who hates science so won't suck it up and persevere through two semesters of organic chemistry to get into medical school.

Example 2: An INFP who wants to pursue a career in music but who hates networking and schmoozing with others in the industry so won't suck it up and do it to get a foot in the door.

I'm a little bit weird because my Fi and my reality are aligned with each other so I don't feel any discomfort or conflict with my inferior function. My inner values are hard work, integrity, and sacrifice for success so my Fi feeds my Te and Ni which ultimately lends itself to achieving my goals.
 

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This is a poor example from my experience. Both myself and my best friend who are ENFPs have completed 3 degrees each to achieve our goals. For me it meant sucking up my absolute hate for mathematics (had to take one such subject twice as I failed first time) to achieve my goal and my friend had to suck up her "want it now" mentality and is in her 7th year of training as a specialist doctor.

My INFP sister feels extremely uncomfortable explaining things and feels inept at English but pushed through to finish her degree in teaching to be a primary school teacher. In all these instances Fi drove us to overcome the discomfort because of the high value we placed on the goal.

Perhaps another example would paint a clearer picture of what you are trying to say?

F and T are our decision making functions. So for instance if I choose to be a psychologist it might be because my Fi drives me to help and understand people, or to make a difference. Te or Ti would choose to be a psychologist for different reasons. I couldn't say what they are because I'm not T dominant!
 

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I think of Fi as my "fight-stopper". It's my empathy mechanism that allows me to read people and just not Te all over the place, and it's the reason I actually care about people's feelings- not because I feel obligated to, but because I know that if I were in their place, I would want to be treated with respect.

It also allows me to agree to disagree, something that has saved me a lot of useless bullshit.

I've always been a very "morally adherent!!!" person, and I think that's my Fi- I grew up in a household of strong Fe/Fi users.
 
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This is a poor example from my experience. Both myself and my best friend who are ENFPs have completed 3 degrees each to achieve our goals. For me it meant sucking up my absolute hate for mathematics (had to take one such subject twice as I failed first time) to achieve my goal and my friend had to suck up her "want it now" mentality and is in her 7th year of training as a specialist doctor.

My INFP sister feels extremely uncomfortable explaining things and feels inept at English but pushed through to finish her degree in teaching to be a primary school teacher. In all these instances Fi drove us to overcome the discomfort because of the high value we placed on the goal.

Perhaps another example would paint a clearer picture of what you are trying to say?

F and T are our decision making functions. So for instance if I choose to be a psychologist it might be because my Fi drives me to help and understand people, or to make a difference. Te or Ti would choose to be a psychologist for different reasons. I couldn't say what they are because I'm not T dominant!
The original question posed was: How do you understand/experience our "weakest function" (Fi) ?

Citing experiences of how Fi can be disruptive and interfere with reaching goals doesn't mean that all Fi dominant people can't overcome those obstacles or that they're all failures in life. Far from it. It's to make the point that if one follows Fi blindly it can lead to bad results and unhappiness. Fi is often seen as a moral compass but in its most negative form it's an illogical barrier and a refusal to compromise. Quite simply: what if your inner values are screwed up?

My understanding and experience of Fi at its worst: the inability to compromise one's values to reach a goal at the expense of the individual's well-being.

Examples of Fi gone wrong aka stupid values and negative results:

- Believing you should follow your passion without compromise = illogical career choices leading to unemployment and dream death (taking out thousands of dollars in school loans to become an artist in a depressed economy with no job prospects)

- Believing you should only study what you love = cherry picking which school subjects to give a shit about because the person hates some of them and so they end up failing in school (pro tip: when it comes to your GPA, they all matter)

- Believing that money is the root of all evil = not prioritizing making money and ending up impoverished struggling to pay rent, buy groceries, afford health insurance, etc.

These are examples of leading by Fi and having an awful outcome.

Everyone has already commented about Fi at its best aka being true to oneself, being a moral compass, etc. but this is how I've experienced Fi at its worst.
 

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The original question posed was: How do you understand/experience our "weakest function" (Fi) ?

Citing experiences of how Fi can be disruptive and interfere with reaching goals doesn't mean that all Fi dominant people can't overcome those obstacles or that they're all failures in life. Far from it. It's to make the point that if one follows Fi blindly it can lead to bad results and unhappiness. Fi is often seen as a moral compass but in its most negative form it's an illogical barrier and a refusal to compromise. Quite simply: what if your inner values are screwed up?

My understanding and experience of Fi at its worst: the inability to compromise one's values to reach a goal at the expense of the individual's well-being.

Examples of Fi gone wrong aka stupid values and negative results:

- Believing you should follow your passion without compromise = illogical career choices leading to unemployment and dream death (taking out thousands of dollars in school loans to become an artist in a depressed economy with no job prospects)

- Believing you should only study what you love = cherry picking which school subjects to give a shit about because the person hates some of them and so they end up failing in school (pro tip: when it comes to your GPA, they all matter)

- Believing that money is the root of all evil = not prioritizing making money and ending up impoverished struggling to pay rent, buy groceries, afford health insurance, etc.

These are examples of leading by Fi and having an awful outcome.

Everyone has already commented about Fi at its best aka being true to oneself, being a moral compass, etc. but this is how I've experienced Fi at its worst.
Those examples make more sense especially for Fi doms and demonstrates how you see Fi from an external perspective (seeing Fi in others).

Would an ENTJ experience Fi like that? That's super interesting if they do as I assumed since Fi is weak, Te would quickly poke holes in the logic of "stupid" beliefs/values?

Have you experienced those examples personally? How have you have experienced your own Fi at its worst?
 

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Okay, I have to confess that I don't know much about Fi at all.

I don't understand much about these letter combinations on their own because I'm not much of a reader and that even if I were I wouldn't know where to look. I googled it bu got nothing. I'm assuming there are some links on this site somewhere?
 

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- What would an ENTJ's stance towards conspiracy theories be? Interested? Or do you consider most of them to be too far fetched to even spend time on researching their validity?

- What role does humour/sarcasm play when debating a topic? Do you enjoy taking a controversial stance to draw people out and use sarcasm even if that means that the other doesn't get your point? Or do you stick to the facts, focus on content and want to convince others with your arguments?
No patience for em. Stupid. I don't need to spend the time researching them because I can usually tear them apart if they're explained to me verbally. I'm a bit of a know it all and I can debate people for hours.

Yeah. I can spend quite a bit of time taking an opposing POV I disagree with just to see if people can make good arguments against it. Helps me ascertain my logic is sound on the issue. When I'm using sarcasm, I either respect the person enough to know they'll get it or think they're so stupid I can give up and hope someone else will get the joke. I'm pretty serious when I debate- jokes is more an NTP thing, and more ENTP than INTP.
 
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