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My ENTJ and I went to a local burlesque event. Not sure how many of you have been to one, but the general protocol encourages audience members to hoot, holler, wolf whistle etc when the performers behave in a provocative manner.

I have spoken with many of the performers (they are all local girls). They all concur that the more noise the audience makes, the better they feel about their performance.

My partner knows all this, but he feels that it is fundamentally wrong to vocalise his appreciation in this way (too close to disrespectful behaviour in his opinion). I respect him for his decision and admire him for sticking to his principles as he makes no demands on me to conform to his standard. In fact, he seems quite amused by my cheers and whoops. He says this is because it is so far removed from my usual behaviour.

It got me wondering whether this is standard ENTJ behaviour or if it comes down to the individual's need to conform to their own standards.

What's your take on this?
Would you join in with the behaviour, knowing that it is appreciated?
Or does it strike you as fundamentally disrespectful?
I won't bend my behavior based on what's accepted. I would usually not find myself In a situation where the accepted behavior does not match my own.

My way of bending is respecting others doing their own thing however I have no reason to conform regardless of what's accepted.

If i am only comfortable driving 70 mph but find myself on the autobahn I would continue to drive 70mph. It works both ways, in all honesty I am comfortable driving speeds above the limit and therefore will do so.

I have my own morals and rules and I stick to them religiously. I don't particularly care for what's accepted be it a line beneath or above my own.
 

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Thank you all for your answers... @Prada, my apologies if you felt that my question(s) or tone was disrespectful to my partner. I actually quite adore him for his authenticity (ie he doesn't care who else does it, he feels that it would be disrespectful for him to do it - so he doesn't join in... despite the fact that our friends tease him about it.)

My motivation was general curiosity.
 

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What's your take on this?
Would you join in with the behaviour, knowing that it is appreciated?
Or does it strike you as fundamentally disrespectful?
my take. I very much enjoy being a social chameleon as I have found that it has worked to my benefit in many aspects of my life. It isn't so much hiding myself, but showing the aspect of my persona / interests that will fit best with my current surroundings. Now on the rare moment that I am truly out of my element then I strongly question why the hell I am there and likely won't repeat the mistake.

I am by nature a very loud person I think it does come from the fact that I am 6'4 and because of that simple unchangeable fact, I don't 'hide' well. Instead of trying to find ways to vanish, I embraced the fact that I stick out and just kinda ran with it. The key stone as I said above is that I am not faking anything I am just choosing only to show the applicable aspects. If I am going to be in the spotlight, if I am faking it will be found out quickly and my credibility will be shot. I also factor in what I want as the outcome of the situation and game plan to make that happen. Not really applicable to this specific situation but I guess it is some insight into how my mind works. I am also a bit of a weirdo because I like talking about emotions and shit. guess thats my psych undergrad background and I also being some what of a manipulative person.


For this situation I'd probably be hooting but thats base line for me and When in Rome.... Would I catcall the girl wearing provactive clothing just walking down the street? no never
 

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A question for all ENTJs (or friends of ENTJs, whatevs): Would you consider yourself - or other ENTJs you know - to be "closed off?" Is that a common trait?
 

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@enfpeeved ... define 'closed off'?
Reluctant to share what's going on your life, unwilling to discuss negative emotions or situations, slow to open up. Basically not very willing to discuss personal things.
 

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@enfpeeved Personally (I don't know how other ENTJs approach it), not at all? Feelings are difficult, so by default I don't open up to many about that-- because it's confusing, but experiences tend to be freely given. Almost in callous, impersonal way. Like talking about tragedies as if a casual thing.

Then again people seem to comment how I am 'mysterious' and/or 'secretive'. It's not by design, I do talk about feelings and everyday concerns but with select people that I trust (that I trust would suffer me and my pettiness).

Edit: also, since seeing an ENFP, I could tell he.. would like it that I share emotions and sentiments more? I've been trying to do more of that. Incrementally. My previous relationship was an INTJ, the mechanism needs recalibrating.
 

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I'm not like that at all. But when I discuss personal feelings, it's in an entjish way.

And not with everyone.
Personal feelings is an animal instinct.
 

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Reluctant to share what's going on your life, unwilling to discuss negative emotions or situations, slow to open up. Basically not very willing to discuss personal things.
I'm not unwilling, I'm just not forthcoming.

I am simply not capable of projecting my feelings, in the same way that some people can't give a formal speech. Trying to tell my partner that I was in love with him the first time was agonising. I can discuss my feelings matter-of-factly as long as I'm not currently feeling them.
 

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I'm not unwilling, I'm just not forthcoming.

I am simply not capable of projecting my feelings, in the same way that some people can't give a formal speech. Trying to tell my partner that I was in love with him the first time was agonising. I can discuss my feelings matter-of-factly as long as I'm not currently feeling them.
I like that metaphor. What is it about discussing feelings whilst feeling them that makes it so hard? I can discuss my feelings as I'm experiencing them, but what comes out of my mouth won't be very accurate or even sensical; I need time to process them. I always assumed that ENTJs simply processed them immediately and just didn't see the use in opening up about them.
 

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I like that metaphor. What is it about discussing feelings whilst feeling them that makes it so hard? I can discuss my feelings as I'm experiencing them, but what comes out of my mouth won't be very accurate or even sensical; I need time to process them. I always assumed that ENTJs simply processed them immediately and just didn't see the use in opening up about them.
I am not in touch with my feelings at all. When they happen it always takes me by surprise (crying at weddings, random overwhelming urge to hold my partner like I might lose him, Sandra Bullock films). If I do feel the feels I channel them into cleaning and exercise or take my mind off them with work, socializing or drinking. Other times I don't feel anything, like breakups or if I should empathize with someone.

So when I'm overcome with feelings for my partner it feels like a rending in my chest that I need to fix, and I can't verbalize it. Other times I can easily talk to him about things from a place of reason.

It's probably a control thing.
 

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I like that metaphor. What is it about discussing feelings whilst feeling them that makes it so hard? I can discuss my feelings as I'm experiencing them, but what comes out of my mouth won't be very accurate or even sensical; I need time to process them.I always assumed that ENTJs simply processed them immediately and just didn't see the use in opening up about them.
I can only tell you what my ENTJ told me (& it may be different for each individual). For him processing emotions is exhausting because he cannot always discern what I call the "logic patterns" of emotions (*pauses to listen to the sounds of TJ's all over the world scoffing*). To him emotions seem far too subjective, dependant on too many variables and are often too fleeting to "waste" the time and energy on them (unless it is absolutely essential or he knows beyond reasonable doubt that the emotion is stable).

He said his STR's have always followed the same pattern you described (bolded part of your comment) and it means that they never become LTR's because it requires too much effort... it's exhausting. His rationale is, if someone says whatever they feel at the time and then say something else which contradicts it (because at this other moment they feel differently) it makes it hard for him to trust that they mean what they say.

Because he has a very strong ethical streak, he won't commit to saying something that is subject to volatility... as he expects the same in return.

Additionally strong emotion makes him feel vulnerable to attack... it means that he has lowered his defences and he won't do this if he thinks that there is any likelihood that the person will use it against him.
 

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Reluctant to share what's going on your life, unwilling to discuss negative emotions or situations, slow to open up. Basically not very willing to discuss personal things.
Not unless discussing it has some purpose (to make me feel better, to fix the problem). I don't consider myself closed off and I will answer questions honestly (and bluntly) if asked but I don't invite input into my life without a good reason.
 

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I am not in touch with my feelings at all. When they happen it always takes me by surprise (crying at weddings, random overwhelming urge to hold my partner like I might lose him, Sandra Bullock films). If I do feel the feels I channel them into cleaning and exercise or take my mind off them with work, socializing or drinking. Other times I don't feel anything, like breakups or if I should empathize with someone.

So when I'm overcome with feelings for my partner it feels like a rending in my chest that I need to fix, and I can't verbalize it. Other times I can easily talk to him about things from a place of reason.

It's probably a control thing.
Thank you for the insight. ENTJs are an endless source of frustration for me (not because of who they are, but because of who I am). I feel like I can "read" people very easily, but I struggle with self-identified ENTJs. No clue why.

I presume ENTJs are just out-of-tune with their emotions, and since you have to really *feel* them to understand them, it's not worth dealing with that unpleasantness to understand something "illogical" and "irrational." Could be wrong, though.

For him processing emotions is exhausting because he cannot always discern what I call the "logic patterns" of emotions (*pauses to listen to the sounds of TJ's all over the world scoffing*)
I laughed out loud.

He said his STR's have always followed the same pattern you described (bolded part of your comment) and it means that they never become LTR's because it requires too much effort... it's exhausting. His rationale is, if someone says whatever they feel at the time and then say something else which contradicts it (because at this other moment they feel differently) it makes it hard for him to trust that they mean what they say.
THIS. As you know, I was/am/whoevencaresanymore having an issue with an ENTJ and this is LITERALLY something he said to me - that it is exhausting when people *cough*me*cough* say something, and then try to retract it because they didn't mean it that way.
 

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I presume ENTJs are just out-of-tune with their emotions, and since you have to really *feel* them to understand them, it's not worth dealing with that unpleasantness to understand something "illogical" and "irrational." Could be wrong, though.
Here's how I look at it...

Everyone needs and deserves to feel safe when building relationships (especially romantic ones). But that safety is derived in different ways by different people.

For some it may require a partner who is willing to let them vent when needed, safe in the feeling that they will not be seen or treated differently because of it.

For your ENTJ (and mine) it requires a level of predictability in emotional responses, safe in the knowledge that they won't be blindsided by someone's outbursts.

Neither of these are inherently wrong... but they are incompatible without some hard work and ground rules. Without ground rules, the two parties are likely to feel punished for simply being themselves... then no-one feels safe.

I don't know if this helps, but if I feel like I am going to become overly emotive with my partner, I:

1. Ask him for 'processing time'
2. Promise that we can discuss it when I am capable of articulating it in a logical way
3. Reassure him that our relationship is not under threat
4. Make sure I deliver on my promise (this is important - I do not even attempt to discuss it again until I know that I can deliver on my promise)

It feels a little clunky/uncomfortable to start with, but by the end of the discussion we both feel safe with each other... so well worth the effort.
 

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For your ENTJ (and mine) it requires a level of predictability in emotional responses, safe in the knowledge that they won't be blindsided by someone's outbursts. .
My two worst relationships were with a guy that made everything into an argument, and a girl that was often really upset with me but would never say anything. Their reactions had very little to do with what was actually happening in the relationship and everything to do with their feelings.

One was deeply insecure, the other I was incapable of meeting her emotional needs, and they were both awfully unpredictable. We'd be out for dinner and she'd go to the bathroom for 15 minutes and then I'd see her run out the door, looking upset with no explanation and no apparent trigger. He'd start an explosive argument on the train, get off at a random stop and then come home drunk for round two late in the night.

I cared for both of them, but I can't live like that. Found an ISTP and we've never had a disagreement, we talk about things before they become a problem and neither of us is reactionary. He's very consistent and this allows me to plan for a future with him, and do the day-to-day stuff knowing that he won't throw a spanner in the works. Being able to plan and structure is very important to me, whereas it seems that for a lot of Feelers their emotions can dominate their lives.
 

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I presume ENTJs are just out-of-tune with their emotions, and since you have to really *feel* them to understand them, it's not worth dealing with that unpleasantness to understand something "illogical" and "irrational." Could be wrong, though.
I've been thinking about this. My ENFP (still getting used to that) said several times "Don't think (about it) too much," as he saw me processing something that just happened/a remark/a conversation. I have this inkling that they worry (?) that my thoughts will lead me astray/somewhere they-- wouldn't like/could not reach, arcane logic of some sort (Ni?).

I told him once not to worry, since my 'thinking' usually concludes with me discarding all the thoughts and deciding it's not worth thinking about.

Few days ago something happened that needed hard thinking (for me).

Again, yesterday he said not to think about it too much, and I realized. I'm thinking not to 'think', really, but to separate the debris of thoughts from what I really want/feel. Fi is close to the surface for ENFPs, (I am assuming) they need not to dig deep to know/name what they feel. Not so with ENTJs (not this one, anyway).

My Fi/ emotional wants-needs/ feelings are buried under debris of thoughts and practical concerns and '(most) logical course(s) of action', everything useful for day-to-day decision making but less relevant when you deal with emotions/personal relationships. It takes a bit while to excavate them. My 'thinking' is me getting rid of the 'thinking' part. The process is a pain, troublesome and it takes awhile so I avoid doing that unless I have to.

But I kind of have to.

If it is (you are) important enough, (I think/believe) your ENTJ will find a way to process and communicate their feelings. Especially when they recognize that it's important for you.
 
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