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I'm thinking not to 'think', really, but to separate the debris of thoughts from what I really want/feel. Fi is close to the surface for ENFPs, (I am assuming) they need not to dig deep to know/name what they feel. Not so with ENTJs (not this one, anyway).
That's interesting, I would say that for ENFPs it is the exact opposite (well, for me, anyways). My "logical thoughts" are buried deep down beneath my feelings. I have to go on a deep sea expedition just to figure out why X or Y made me sad - and sometimes, it's just not worth it, because even if I know the logical reasoning behind my emotions, I can't stop them from occurring.

My 'thinking' is me getting rid of the 'thinking' part. The process is a pain, troublesome and it takes awhile so I avoid doing that unless I have to.
And I think that's what is so difficult - your 'thinking' self is a very, very big part of you, as it is with all ENTJs. Getting rid of the 'thinking' part is like forcing yourself to step out of your own brain for a while. It's really hard, but I guess everyone has to learn to do that eventually.

If it is (you are) important enough, (I think/believe) your ENTJ will find a way to process and communicate their feelings. Especially when they recognize that it's important for you.
We both try to be sensitive to one another; I try to communicate logically/rationally, he tries to be more sensitive to my feelings. But he doesn't open up about his so much. I was curious if this was just him or a general ENTJ thing! Now I know.

Thanks everyone!
 

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That's interesting, I would say that for ENFPs it is the exact opposite (well, for me, anyways). My "logical thoughts" are buried deep down beneath my feelings. I have to go on a deep sea expedition just to figure out why X or Y made me sad - and sometimes, it's just not worth it, because even if I know the logical reasoning behind my emotions, I can't stop them from occurring.
That's figuring out feelings for me, it's often not worth it. And most of the time, it's irrelevant/not that important anyway, but not so when dealing with personal relationships with a Feeler.

We both try to be sensitive to one another; I try to communicate logically/rationally, he tries to be more sensitive to my feelings. But he doesn't open up about his so much. I was curious if this was just him or a general ENTJ thing! Now I know.
As long you can tell between '(genuinely) trying to be sensitive' and 'saying he's trying to be sensitive'. If he doesn't open up about his feelings much, change the question(s). Ask what he's going to do with the situation/what actions he plans to take next. Those are infinitely easier questions to answer and maybe most relevant for you, if you're still figuring out where he stands.
 

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Were you quick to get hurt as a child? Was there someone that bullied you for being a crybaby? What made you not want to appear weak? When did you start to value Te and neglect Fi?
 

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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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Were you quick to get hurt as a child? Was there someone that bullied you for being a crybaby?
Oh, hell no. Pitty the poor child who tried.

What made you not want to appear weak?
As a child? Not sure. Just always had this sort of "you can't break me" attitude.
ENTJ/Type 8 two-year old. (my poor parents). :laughin:

When did you start to value Te and neglect Fi?
It's not so much that an effort was made to neglect Fi. It just wasn't developed.
 

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Were you quick to get hurt as a child?
Not hurt, but frustrated.

As a child it's hard to see the logic in parents or others telling you no about certain things. This was very easily frustrating.
 

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Were you quick to get hurt as a child?
Physically or emotionally? In both cases, no. Partly because I was forced to mature very fast due to my family situation and partly because I never cared about games that could potentially harm me. If I did something silly as a child (like climbing fences), I made all the calculations necessary to figure out if it's safe enough to try. E.g. What material is the fence made out of? How does it hold together? Can it potentially carry my weight? etc. I never had anything broken in my whole life.

Was there someone that bullied you for being a crybaby?
No. I was never into expressing my emotions. I was bullied for a few months but I didn't care. They were just kids and did it because it entertained them not because they were malicious. After a while they stopped because I simply didn't give a damn. It seemed pointless to care, their behaviour was highly illogical.

What made you not want to appear weak?
I guess I never cared about that. Whenever there was a problem or something like that, I immediately tried to find the root and problem solving. I also always admired strong and smart people. So, I would say it was never about me not appearing weak but about me actually being strong.

When did you start to value Te and neglect Fi?
Um.. Never? I never really "valued" Te, it's a part of me. If you're asking when I started being logical, I always was. Ever since I learned how to read, my favourite literature was non-fiction and I enjoyed collecting knowledge. I was always trying to find the most logical reason/solution for everything. My mom once told me that ever since kindergarten I would stop to think about doing something while all kids hurried to do it. Ever since I could remember, my mind operated on a "Is this logical?" basis.

Seems like you're working here with some really weird hypothesis that ENTJs can't be born only manufactured.
 

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I got the idea from my cousin. He said I made him ENTJ by bullying him when he showed weakness. He said I was his role model and because of my attitude he started to suppress his emotions (sadness, shame and anger) and worked on developing logic. We hang out during the summer for many years, I am 4 1/2 years older. I was always testing his breaking point, told him to stop being so hurt and irritated all the time, he got pissed off like why are you such a fucking dick all the time, wanted to kill me and then cried when he had no power over me, I think I never physically abused him, just bored and wanted someone to tease...
I understand why he was hurt, I would probably feel the same way, if someone I looked up to was trolling me. I joked about how therapists could point at me when he has problems accepting that people are emotionally attachment to him (his idea, idk).

We get along great. He is now becoming my role model, in a way. I'm not sure how, if my friends like my forceful Te though.

Seems like you're working here with some really weird hypothesis that ENTJs can't be born only manufactured.
I'm often pondering, if the N-S axis only go deterministic into one function axis (unchangeable) when a person is born. Maybe even the judging ones lol... I know the main factors are genetic triggers and brain wiring, but makes me question how far can the potential of certain genes be expressed in terms of what we call cognitive function use. How much does it have to do with ancestry... I have read peoples posts explaining how they switched functions through their life, maybe a predisposition to genetic changes due to reaching of certain age.

Anyways, appreciate the answers.
 

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How do you feel (or 'what do you think') about being 8w7?
Do you ever feel as though your just at war with yourself?
And the world. Do you notice or are you concious in regards to our 'self forgetting'?
Since knowing that you are an 8w7, has it caused you to reflect on or review your behavioral patterns?
 

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How do you feel (or 'what do you think') about being 8w7?
Do you ever feel as though your just at war with yourself?
And the world. Do you notice or are you concious in regards to our 'self forgetting'?
Since knowing that you are an 8w7, has it caused you to reflect on or review your behavioral patterns?
No for all above, I'm 845 btw.
 

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Were you quick to get hurt as a child?
No. I was a rather jockish child, in retrospect.

Was there someone that bullied you for being a crybaby?
I was the bully. I did get into fights, however, and maybe there were.. those who tried?

What made you not want to appear weak?
It didn't occur to me that I was weak/would appear weak. Later on I wanted to be strong even more because I (thought) saw what I considered a weak person, and didn't want to share similar 'fate' (I was wrong, but at that time, it was true for me).

When did you start to value Te and neglect Fi?

What @Prada said.
 

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I cared for both of them, but I can't live like that. Found an ISTP and we've never had a disagreement, we talk about things before they become a problem and neither of us is reactionary. He's very consistent and this allows me to plan for a future with him, and do the day-to-day stuff knowing that he won't throw a spanner in the works. Being able to plan and structure is very important to me, whereas it seems that for a lot of Feelers their emotions can dominate their lives.
For your ENTJ (and mine) it requires a level of predictability in emotional responses, safe in the knowledge that they won't be blindsided by someone's outbursts.
Everything this. Every feeler creeping on this thread please read this.
 

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I'm wondering how many ENTJ's are Enneagram 8?

I'm an INTP 8, and can't seem to relate to many INTP's.
I'm a pure 8.

Were you quick to get hurt as a child?
No, but I was quick to anger and I got into a lot of physical fights with other kids.

Was there someone that bullied you for being a crybaby?

No, I was unfortunately usually the bully.

What made you not want to appear weak?


I didn't care about not appearing weak to other people. I was more concerned with being strong for myself to survive my life circumstances.

When did you start to value Te and neglect Fi?


Te comes naturally to me, it's like my 'default' setting. Fi doesn't come naturally but I wouldn't consider it neglected. I think of Te as someone's primary language that they were raised in and Fi as that shitty secondary language they make you learn in high school (Spanish/French in California) that you can kinda/sorta speak well but has limited use only in specific situations.
 

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I'm wondering how many ENTJ's are Enneagram 8?

I'm an INTP 8, and can't seem to relate to many INTP's.
8 and a 3w4 (I've come up with the same thing over multiple tests). I don't like being an 8, and know when I'm being contrary and stubborn, or trying to dominate my environment. I feel like the 8 in me only comes out when challenged, although gentler types describe me as being very forceful generally.

I think the thing with 8s is that we don't relate to other people. We're fiercely individualistic and self driven, so it's our way or the highway.
 

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8 and a 3w4 (I've come up with the same thing over multiple tests). I don't like being an 8, and know when I'm being contrary and stubborn, or trying to dominate my environment. I feel like the 8 in me only comes out when challenged, although gentler types describe me as being very forceful generally.

I think the thing with 8s is that we don't relate to other people. We're fiercely individualistic and self driven, so it's our way or the highway.
Hmm, I'm already skeptical of your 'work in progress' model. I think you're a 3w4 who just think's they're an Eight. Three's can be confident and bold like's Eights. This is widely commented on by the Enneagram experts.

Not necessarily, I'm happy to do something some one elses way so long as the outcome is an outcome which I desire. It is sometimes a useful ruse to encourage others to believe that they are in control of a given situation. Give's them a sense of security, which may or may not false. That would be a covert demonstration of control, of course a more overt demonstration would be in your notion of dishing out ultimatums.

Perhaps my INTP bleeds through in the fact that I am very very happy to let others do the leg work, whilst I do the 'cog' work. I only break my lazy habits when others are incompetant and/or inefficient.
 

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I'm a pure 8.

I was quick to anger and I got into a lot of physical fights with other kids.

I was unfortunately usually the bully.

I didn't care about not appearing weak to other people. I was more concerned with being strong for myself to survive my life circumstances.
Ditto on all counts.
 

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If I were to bottle the essence of ENTJ, what would it be?
 
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