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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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If I were to bottle the essence of ENTJ, what would it be?
You don't even need to bottle it yourself. Just go to the nearest liquor store and buy a bottle of scotch.
 
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Hmm, I'm already skeptical of your 'work in progress' model. I think you're a 3w4 who just think's they're an Eight. Three's can be confident and bold like's Eights. This is widely commented on by the Enneagram experts.

Not necessarily, I'm happy to do something some one elses way so long as the outcome is an outcome which I desire. It is sometimes a useful ruse to encourage others to believe that they are in control of a given situation. Give's them a sense of security, which may or may not false. That would be a covert demonstration of control, of course a more overt demonstration would be in your notion of dishing out ultimatums.

Perhaps my INTP bleeds through in the fact that I am very very happy to let others do the leg work, whilst I do the 'cog' work. I only break my lazy habits when others are incompetant and/or inefficient.
There are a lot of qualities that 8s have that 3s don't (or at least none I've heard of). Being physically intimidating, capable of pushing through social resistance, ability to ignore criticism, questioning authority, seeking independence.

As a reasonably well-rounded individual I could present as a healthy 3 or 8, but I know that when push comes to shove my base motivation is to not be controlled, by other people or by systems. That's why I study law and policy, because parliamentary sovereignty is top of the food chain and gets the final say on all matters.

I also think that trying to out-8 other people on a forum is an exercise in futility.
 

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There are a lot of qualities that 8s have that 3s don't (or at least none I've heard of). Being physically intimidating, capable of pushing through social resistance, ability to ignore criticism, questioning authority, seeking independence.
But do you live and breathe these qualities as an 8 would? The fact that you are even entertaining 3w4 is enough to stop me from thinking that you're an 8. You either are or you aren't. No inbetween's or maybe's, from my pov.

As a reasonably well-rounded individual I could present as a healthy 3 or 8, but I know that when push comes to shove my base motivation is to not be controlled, by other people or by systems. That's why I study law and policy, because parliamentary sovereignty is top of the food chain and gets the final say on all matters.
I'm also a student of International Studies/Politics.

I also think that trying to out-8 other people on a forum is an exercise in futility.
Not trying to 'out 8' anyone - you just don't seem like one to me to me.
From very brief impressions I'll agree.
My skepticism towards your model contributes largely.
 

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But do you live and breathe these qualities as an 8 would? The fact that you are even entertaining 3w4 is enough to stop me from thinking that you're an 8. You either are or you aren't. No inbetween's or maybe's.



I'm also a student of International Studies/Politics.



Not trying to 'out 8' anyone - you just don't seem like one to me to me.
From very brief impressions I'll agree, I just got a gut feelin.
My skepticism towards your model contributes largely.
I like that band. I used to listen to them when I was younger.
 

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How do you feel (or 'what do you think') about being 8w7?

Pretty damned awesome. I'm proud of it. I also feel like it is why I don't fit in with anyone where I live.

Do you ever feel as though your just at war with yourself?

Nope. I know who I am and I'm very happy with that.

And the world. Do you notice or are you concious in regards to our 'self forgetting'?

Yes, I constantly feel at odds with "The world", or at least my small corner of it. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "self-forgetting."


Since knowing that you are an 8w7, has it caused you to reflect on or review your behavioral patterns?


Only that I am not alone.
 

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But do you live and breathe these qualities as an 8 would? The fact that you are even entertaining 3w4 is enough to stop me from thinking that you're an 8. You either are or you aren't. No inbetween's or maybe's.

I'm also a student of International Studies/Politics.

Not trying to 'out 8' anyone - you just don't seem like one to me to me.
From very brief impressions I'll agree, I just got a gut feelin.
My skepticism towards your model contributes largely.
She's an 8, and seems to me you're being unnecessarily argumentative. You just got here. I wouldn't pick a fight with someone you barely know and who's far more respected and liked than you because you think you know her personality better than she does.
 

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Well you're guilty of projection, I'm not picking an argument, I was seeking clarification & expressing my skepticism at this proposed 8 3w4 model. (which I would like to hear more about)

far more respected and liked than you
Wtf do you call this, haha, (behavior, such as you just demonstrated, is commonly frowned upon elsewhere in regards to handling 'noobs').

An INTP's opinion is alway's open to change. Appeals to 'authority' and social status fall on deaf ears however. I could understand your POV better if I had just come in and said such without explaining a valid reason, my reason is laid out.
 

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How do you feel (or 'what do you think') about being 8w7?

Pretty damned awesome. I'm proud of it. I also feel like it is why I don't fit in with anyone where I live.

Do you ever feel as though your just at war with yourself?

Nope. I know who I am and I'm very happy with that.

And the world. Do you notice or are you concious in regards to our 'self forgetting'?

Yes, I constantly feel at odds with "The world", or at least my small corner of it. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "self-forgetting."


Since knowing that you are an 8w7, has it caused you to reflect on or review your behavioral patterns?


Only that I am not alone.
Thanks for the reply. I ask, because I have been asking myself the same.
We all know the 'benefits' of being an 8 - but it's in coming to terms with 'deeper meaning' of being an 8 that makes me extremely uncomfortable, and rather nervous for the future... What I mean by constantly being at war with our selves - is our tendancy to self destroy/destruct.
This is still where I am at anyway. In regards to 'self forgetting', our tendancies towards denial, concious and unconcious.
 

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But do you live and breathe these qualities as an 8 would? The fact that you are even entertaining 3w4 is enough to stop me from thinking that you're an 8. You either are or you aren't. No inbetween's or maybe's, from my pov.



I'm also a student of International Studies/Politics.



Not trying to 'out 8' anyone - you just don't seem like one to me to me.
From very brief impressions I'll agree.
My skepticism towards your model contributes largely.
Do I live and breathe being an 8? Do we get little armbands and get to be in a special club? Does the blood in your veins have the potency of ten Bengal tigers and you sweat energy drink? You make it sound like to have 8 as your enneagram and control as your base motivation you need to have the aggression levels of a steroid abuser. You don't.

I've taken the tests, they've told me I'm a 3w4 and an 8. As someone looking to learn more about personality differences I accept the 3w4 and the 8, rather than drawing a giant red 8 on my forehead, and disregarding the other elements of my personality because I think it "sounds cool" to be an 8.

As I said earlier there are aspects of being an 8 that I don't like about myself. Being quick to anger, coming across as aggressive and forceful, being contrary, leaning into conflict, having people dislike or resent me for dominating them. I don't want to be the biggest barrier to my own achievements, and I get better outcomes if I mitigate these aspects of my personality when it is appropriate.

My reasoning for pointing out what I study, is my reason for doing so. My educational background is in sociology and politics, originally I was looking at research, but got frustrated with the bureaucracy and inability to instigate change, so I went back to study law. Again, incremental change is possible, but even large victories can be overridden by acts of parliament. So the only way to truly effect lasting change and have the most control is by being a policy-maker. Whenever I hit a ceiling, I butt my head against it, questioning authority and trying to force a change in order for me to achieve my own ends. I am never content to be told what to do, so I'm learning the language of power, so that I might eventually wield it (although the question will be in the private or public sphere as I am also reasonably achieved in business). I would argue that this is more indicative of being an 8 than trying to throw my weight around in petty day-to-day engagements.


She's an 8, and seems to me you're being unnecessarily argumentative. You just got here. I wouldn't pick a fight with someone you barely know and who's far more respected and liked than you because you think you know her personality better than she does.
Maust is right in that you're being unnecessarily argumentative. You're not coming across as interested in other perspectives and it seems like no matter what I tell you, you're going to disagree. Which is fine, but not something that I feel like wasting my time on.
 
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