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As ENTJs, do you guys feel like you have a habit of giving people advice, or "teaching" them - often of your own accord?
yup and it is a double edged sword. My friends greatly value my opinion as it is brutally honest and comes with no angle of my own, and if there is a personal bias I will disclose it. I am very good with analogies which can be helpful when someone is having trouble understanding the perspective of their situation and that by getting them to see it in a slightly different light allows them to have a new paradigm and get out of their mental rut.

The problem is I have to actively restrain myself in situations where being critical is going to cause problems. From pointing out operational flaws in managers to friends having an emotionally dysfunctional day, what I might see as being helpful in solving a problem to them is confrontational or a painful reminder of a personal failure.

I've gotten better at gauging the appropriateness of my insights, but I still screw up from time to time.

As for taking advice, I love it. I have come to understand that my personal way of seeing the world does have its blind spots and having someone able to provide insight into those is critical. Sometimes it may not be things I want to hear as they may run highly contradictory to my own assumptions. Filtering out what is personal attack meant only to do damage and what is an honest flaw that should be improved is a struggle because if it was a total lie it wouldn't be upsetting to hear. Figuring out the balance is something that has been a focus of mine for years and something I actively work on.
 

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As ENTJs, do you guys feel like you have a habit of giving people advice, or "teaching" them - often of your own accord?

I'm friends with an ENTJ who constantly advises me to do things that I'm already doing, or explaining stuff that I have a perfect understanding of. Here's an example - I'm in college, I dress pretty casually for class. One of my classes is situated in my university's law school building and the law students are usually dressed sharply. I lightheartedly mentioned to my ENTJ how silly and underdressed I felt having to walk through that building to get to my class because of what all of the graduate students wear. He proceeded to explain that while it's okay for me to dress casually for class now, if I choose to go to law school in the future I'm going to have to dress more professionally, as well as in my future career.

It REALLY irritated me, because it gave me the impression that my ENTJ finds me really daft if he thinks he needs to explain this. Obviously, if I can recognize that all of the graduate students dress professionally in school, isn't it implied that I also recognize that if I was a graduate student, I too would have to dress professionally?

I try not to take it personally, but I can't help it. Is it common for ENTJs to indiscriminately give advice? Would you say that you have a tendency to be critical of others? And how well do you take advice or comments about your own behavior?
I am actually thankful for your mentioning this, because I didn't realize till now how much I do this. I have a tendency to say things (both in giving advice and in making observations) regardless of whether or not the other person knows it; if I find it interesting, I'll likely say it.
 

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so you recognice the situation sucks, you recognice its not a healthy relationship and he is probably not healthy or simple you are not much important to him and then you keep forcing things, keep being around, keep doing the same things and stay in the same situation. no important changes. Do you expect a different result considering this?
Well, I am trying to make changes - and I seek to understand his behavior and way of thinking so that I'm aware of what needs to be done differently. So no, I'm not just "doing the same things" and expecting a different result. Perhaps I'm just not making big enough changes, but I've done everything short of walking away - and seeng as he is one of my closest friends, I just don't have the cojones to do that.

I really do appreciate how straight-forward and frank ENTJs (generally) are. It's one of the reasons why you guys are my favorite personality type, and I wish that I could be more like all of you. I like learning how you guys think, since your strengths are my weaknesses - my ENTJ isn't the only reason why I frequent the ENTJ forums; they're good places for learning and self-improvement.

Definitively walking away from things is hard for me (and many ENFPs) because I/we see the potential in everything. I don't look at the soil and think of dirt; I imagine the flowers that will bloom there, so I keep watering it. It's easy to forget that perhaps the seeds haven't been planted.
 
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Hello dear fellow rationals! Considering ENTJ's perifery Fi, which can be tricky (aka the typical "convincing myself I am OK so that I will act tough, and authoritative while on the inside I am crushing and shaking") what are the biggest scars in life you ever got? What got your heart broken? What got your pride shaken? What got your self-esteem crushed?

Don't get all defensive since I don't mean any harm, I just know my stuff. The perifery Fi is REALLY dangerous, it is like an atomic bomb shoved deep down that has little chance of exploading, but if it DOES, it ruins you, ENTJs. :tongue:
So, I am guessing probably someone not letting you be the leader or declinig you, or saying you aren't the best. I guess that for an ENTJ the worst thing in the world is defeat. Prove me wrong! :wink:
 

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Well, I am trying to make changes - and I seek to understand his behavior and way of thinking so that I'm aware of what needs to be done differently. So no, I'm not just "doing the same things" and expecting a different result. Perhaps I'm just not making big enough changes, but I've done everything short of walking away - and seeng as he is one of my closest friends, I just don't have the cojones to do that.

I really do appreciate how straight-forward and frank ENTJs (generally) are. It's one of the reasons why you guys are my favorite personality type, and I wish that I could be more like all of you. I like learning how you guys think, since your strengths are my weaknesses - my ENTJ isn't the only reason why I frequent the ENTJ forums; they're good places for learning and self-improvement.

Definitively walking away from things is hard for me (and many ENFPs) because I/we see the potential in everything. I don't look at the soil and think of dirt; I imagine the flowers that will bloom there, so I keep watering it. It's easy to forget that perhaps the seeds haven't been planted.
if you are walking away why would you need to understand his behavior?
Why would you think there is a relation between understanding somebody else behavior and doing YOUR things different?(in this point you could say you could get the best way but that best way its directly related to the guy aka NOT WALKING AWAY).

the only changes i see now its you being/behaving more inmature and/or unstable.guess what? no flowers for inmature behavior
 

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Hello dear fellow rationals! Considering ENTJ's perifery Fi, which can be tricky (aka the typical "convincing myself I am OK so that I will act tough, and authoritative while on the inside I am crushing and shaking") what are the biggest scars in life you ever got? What got your heart broken? What got your pride shaken? What got your self-esteem crushed?

Don't get all defensive since I don't mean any harm, I just know my stuff. The perifery Fi is REALLY dangerous, it is like an atomic bomb shoved deep down that has little chance of exploading, but if it DOES, it ruins you, ENTJs. :tongue:
So, I am guessing probably someone not letting you be the leader or declinig you, or saying you aren't the best. I guess that for an ENTJ the worst thing in the world is defeat. Prove me wrong! :wink:
Wrong. Fi seeks internal validation and harmony, not external validation and praise.
 

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Hello dear fellow rationals! Considering ENTJ's perifery Fi, which can be tricky (aka the typical "convincing myself I am OK so that I will act tough, and authoritative while on the inside I am crushing and shaking") what are the biggest scars in life you ever got? What got your heart broken? What got your pride shaken? What got your self-esteem crushed?

Don't get all defensive since I don't mean any harm, I just know my stuff. The perifery Fi is REALLY dangerous, it is like an atomic bomb shoved deep down that has little chance of exploading, but if it DOES, it ruins you, ENTJs. :tongue:
So, I am guessing probably someone not letting you be the leader or declinig you, or saying you aren't the best. I guess that for an ENTJ the worst thing in the world is defeat. Prove me wrong! :wink:
I'm bored so I'll bite.

For me it was being treated like I a bad person by people who know nothing. In school I was really sick all the time and got bullied by students and teachers alike because they thought I was making it up as an excuse to misbehave. They'd often stick my desk in isolation in the back corner because of it.
I never complained. It was just the way things were. But whenever I tried to explain my condition to my teachers, or friends, or...anyone in my very ENTJ matter of fact way I did I'd get so much shit. Even when I was put in group therapy for the express purpose of " talking about it"-and I very rarely did-was just told to Shuttup and let the other kids talk.

So now get some sort of shell-shock whenever someone asks me to talk about it. I get really shaky and hyperventilate because I think someone is going to accuse me of whinning or tell me to shuttup, or that I'm a bad person.

..that itself was not easy.
 

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@Handsome Jack what I just said! The feeling that somebody made you feel like you are worthless, bro! :laughing::laughing::laughing:
Aren't you saying that "someone not letting you be the leader or declinig you, or saying you aren't the best" is what would deeply negatively affect us and trigger our Fi?

I'm saying that it would not.
 

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if you are walking away why would you need to understand his behavior?
Why would you think there is a relation between understanding somebody else behavior and doing YOUR things different?(in this point you could say you could get the best way but that best way its directly related to the guy aka NOT WALKING AWAY).

the only changes i see now its you being/behaving more inmature and/or unstable.guess what? no flowers for inmature behavior
Perhaps I'm not coming across clearly - what I was saying was that I am not walking away, because I don't feel able to do that.

I am trying to understand the causes of my ENTJs behavior so that I can modify my own, in the hopes that I can act in a more mature fashion; less emotionally unstable, less attached, etc.
 
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I've been there my friend, but I guess thanks to my tertiary Fe I didn't have problems expressing my emotions (at the times when I had them) :)
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying you don't like talking about emotions, I am saying that for an ENTJ, it requires a lot of trust to unleash the deepest emotions and to be willing to talk to them. (perifery Fi) Now, you opened up and you were shut down! It must've been difficult for you. I am sorry that you went threw all of that.

If it makes you feel any better, here is my story about bullying (the title may be misleading), but maybe it can help:

http://personalitycafe.com/guess-type/752770-i-am-entp-why-do-people-often-think-i-am-entj.html @Fumetsu
 

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@Handsome Jack What I am saying is that Fi perifery users aka Te dominant users (ENTJs and ESTJs) have a fixation about wanting to come across as authoritative and competent and they even want people to fear of them in a way... To be intimidated by their "superiority" :laughing:.

The thig is yall can fool many people, but when somebody as mind-reading as an ENTP :p puts you in your place, there is nothing as hurtful when you feel powerless again. I am not saying that if somebody is denying you, he is destroying you, but if somebody is as REALISTIC enough as to burst your bubble and make you believe how much you are worth, once YOU feel less about yourself, then you will be unhappy and truely sad in a INFP kind of manner, :tongue: Peace out bro
 

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Perhaps I'm not coming across clearly - what I was saying was that I am not walking away, because I don't feel able to do that.

I am trying to understand the causes of my ENTJs behavior so that I can modify my own, in the hopes that I can act in a more mature fashion; less emotionally unstable, less attached, etc.
although this "sound" better most of my points still remain, the moment you understand its not about him but you, things will start to get better, in the meantime excuses wil be your best friends
 

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@Handsome Jack What I am saying is that Fi perifery users aka Te dominant users (ENTJs and ESTJs) have a fixation about wanting to come across as authoritative and competent and they even want people to fear of them in a way... To be intimidated by their "superiority" :laughing:.

The thig is yall can fool many people, but when somebody as mind-reading as an ENTP :p puts you in your place, there is nothing as hurtful when you feel powerless again. I am not saying that if somebody is denying you, he is destroying you, but if somebody is as REALISTIC enough as to burst your bubble and make you believe how much you are worth, once YOU feel less about yourself, then you will be unhappy and truely sad in a INFP kind of manner, :tongue: Peace out bro
I understand what you're saying, and once again, I'm saying it would not and that I disagree.

Your posts were laced with inaccurate assumptions left and right but thank you for your attempt to learn more about us.

Edit: I don't think you understand where I'm coming from. I'll elaborate.

The issue I have with your posts (via my Ni) is your underlying assumption that ENTJs are desperately trying to project power and dominance at all times over other people. Also, that we're secretly insecure and fearful that someone's going to call us out/expose us on this supposed (nonexistent) bluff. This is not the case.

ENTJs are raw, real, blunt, authentic, and tough as shit. Due to being so action/results/goal oriented it's difficult for ENTJs to get delusional about their situation/standing if proof just simply isn't there to back it up. We don't want to 'come across' as competent -- we are competent. We're not trying to 'act' tough -- we are tough. We don't need an ENTP or any other type to 'burst our bubble' since the bubble itself doesn't exist.
 

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Hello dear fellow rationals! Considering ENTJ's perifery Fi, which can be tricky (aka the typical "convincing myself I am OK so that I will act tough, and authoritative while on the inside I am crushing and shaking") what are the biggest scars in life you ever got? What got your heart broken? What got your pride shaken? What got your self-esteem crushed?
Um, no. Crushing and shaking on the inside? What? no.

Don't get all defensive since I don't mean any harm, I just know my stuff.
Clearly not.

The perifery Fi is REALLY dangerous, it is like an atomic bomb shoved deep down that has little chance of exploading, but if it DOES, it ruins you, ENTJs. :tongue:
First, no it's not like an atomic bomb. And second, ruins us? Ruins? If that were so, we'd all be little smoldering piles of rubble before our second birthday. So, no.

So, I am guessing probably someone not letting you be the leader or declinig you, or saying you aren't the best. I guess that for an ENTJ the worst thing in the world is defeat. Prove me wrong! :wink:
No, again. It just means someone else fought a better battle. If so, they should win. "Defeat" is merely a chance to learn something for the next time. Meh. Pfft. Tomorrow is another day. **shrug**

@Handsome Jack What I am saying is that Fi perifery users aka Te dominant users (ENTJs and ESTJs) have a fixation about wanting to come across as authoritative and competent and they even want people to fear of them in a way... To be intimidated by their "superiority" :laughing:.
Incorrect again. I have no desire to come across as someone who should be feared. My goal is to lead in a way that makes people want to follow. This is accomplished by being inclusive, respectful, and acknowledging the individual's contribution to the whole. This cannot be accomplished through intimidation or though behaving as though superior to others.

The thig is yall can fool many people,
who is trying to fool people?

but when somebody as mind-reading as an ENTP :p puts you in your place,
:chat02: aw, you're so cute

there is nothing as hurtful when you feel powerless again. I am not saying that if somebody is denying you, he is destroying you, but if somebody is as REALISTIC enough as to burst your bubble and make you believe how much you are worth,
Your subjective opinion has no value to me. Bring me something objective and I'll take a look at it.

(once YOU feel less about yourself, then you will be unhappy and truely sad in a INFP kind of manner, :tongue: Peace out bro
Nah.
 

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Um, no. Crushing and shaking on the inside? What? no.



Clearly not.

First, no it's not like an atomic bomb. And second, ruins us? Ruins? If that were so, we'd all be little smoldering piles of rubble before our second birthday. So, no.

No, again. It just means someone else fought a better battle. If so, they should win. "Defeat" is merely a chance to learn something for the next time. Meh. Pfft. Tomorrow is another day. **shrug**

Incorrect again. I have no desire to come across as someone who should be feared. My goal is to lead in a way that makes people want to follow. This is accomplished by being inclusive, respectful, and acknowledging the individual's contribution to the whole. This cannot be accomplished through intimidation or though behaving as though superior to others.



who is trying to fool people?



:chat02: aw, you're so cute

Your subjective opinion has no value to me. Bring me something objective and I'll take a look at it.

Nah.
Okay, I'm glad one of us did this. :laughing:
 

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what are the biggest scars in life you ever got? What got your heart broken? What got your pride shaken? What got your self-esteem crushed?
Don't get all defensive since I don't mean any harm
Prove me wrong! :
You've asked us to rehash painful and harmful experiences, then say you mean no harm, and ask us not to get defensive.

Yet another case of Fe entering the ENTJ sub, poking us with a stick, and waiting for a growl.

This, just like your original post, is pointless. I, for one, have little time to entertain pointlessness.
 

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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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Ok @Fumetsu's courage in sharing her story has made me curious.

How do ENTJ's react when no matter how hard they try, they just can't succeed/their power is diminished and yet the option to stop/withdraw/regroup/take another path is (for whatever reason) not available?

Is @Fumetsu's response typical or atypical? Do you fall into the grip of your inferior function? Does it look like this:

https://www.opp.com/en/tools/MBTI/MBTI-personality-types/ENTJ

Or is that just a bunch of crap?

More importantly, how can your partner/loved ones help you when/if this happens?

Thank you (in advance) for sharing ... I appreciate that it may be disconcerting/uncomfortable for you to discuss this.

EDIT: For the sake of comparison:
When I am in this position, I become cold, hard, anal retentive about specific details, paralysed with self doubt, defensive and downright inflexible until I feel that my power is restored. It's not pretty :-(
 
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