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Ohh, can I ask you about how you and your partner deal with arguments or disagreements? I am an ENFJ and my partner is an INTJ and we are so great together until an argument happens. Both of us are so bold headed we don't want to back down if that makes sense :dry:
Arguments? We never argue :p

Haha. I guess it depends on the argument. If it's something small, then it'll usually start off a bit heated before ending in laughter with us poking fun at each other.

If it's a BIG argument, then the situation is very different. Typical ESFJ, I HATE confrontation, where as my partner will confidently take on literally anyone for an argument (which weirdly is one of things I massively admire about him when it's being used for a good cause). When this situation does happen it will normally result in me clamming up, which unfortunately makes him even more heated because he thinks I'm just giving him the 'silent treatment' when I'm actually not. Rational goes out the window on both sides. We'll normally just go to different parts of the house until we've both calmed down, and then afterwards we'll talk about it all rationally. Given we've been together 13 years at the end of this month, this way of dealing with a 'big argument' must be working well for us if/and when one does happen haha.
 

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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
@The Penguin, hmmm....not really sure about that. I feel like I would need more info to be able to help you more. Can you maybe describe a typical day or what an ideal day would look like to you. Or why do you think it is that you don't get along with most people? Do you think they're just stupid or don't want to put in the effort? What in life makes you really happy and what do you like to do in your free time?
 

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Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
@Ashes4719, dealing with arguments as an ESFJ married to an INTP is tricky sometimes. Fortunately, we've been married for 10+ years now so it's gotten easier. He tries to split hairs on wordings of things and used to in the past try to make everything sound like it had to be totally logical (like emotions weren't valid arguments, etc). Little things I just let go and for big things, we found it's usually best for him to take some introverted alone time and cool down (even though I as an extrovert want to talk about it immediately... but that usually ends up badly so we've found over the years to just let the introvert go get some space for awhile then come back and talk). Once we reconvene to talk more calmly, there are times in the past when I just back peddle and think in my head this isn't worth it and let's just get along again and move forward. Now I've gotten better at actually talking through things and not back peddling just to avoid conflict. He's gotten better at validating my feelings and realizing there's a "feeler logic" that may not always stack up with concrete facts etc. Without that realization, it was hard at the way beginning of our relationship because I felt really misunderstood and he in return felt very frustrated by not understanding what was happening logically plus getting flooded by confusing emotions (mine and his).

I think ENFJs might be different, I don't know. But the ENFJ friend I know is much more out spoken and for lack of a better word "aggressive" in arguments and very stubborn. She makes me feel uncomfortable when she gets like that and makes me feel like she doesn't actually want to hear anyone else's perspective because she's so locked into her own and kind of "attacks" (although I don't think she sees it as that) people who speak up and differ from her viewpoint. I don't know if this is just me or an ESFJ thing but I feel like I keep pretty calm and while I can totally be stubborn too and think I'm right, I'd rather have peace and calm than always be "right." In the end, no one truly "wins" arguments in a relationship because you still have to live with this person forever so proving that you're "right" and being stubborn about it really only drives the other person away....which in the end hurts you because you want to have a good relationship with your partner and not just be the winner and alone. One of the many reasons I try to be careful with my wording during heated arguments is because I know at some point we'll make up again but I don't want to regret the words I've said because I truly love this person and want to have a harmonious family. And to be totally honest, I expect more of myself and slumming it during fights makes me look bad to myself.
 

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Arguments? We never argue :p

Haha. I guess it depends on the argument. If it's something small, then it'll usually start off a bit heated before ending in laughter with us poking fun at each other.

If it's a BIG argument, then the situation is very different. Typical ESFJ, I HATE confrontation, where as my partner will confidently take on literally anyone for an argument (which weirdly is one of things I massively admire about him when it's being used for a good cause). When this situation does happen it will normally result in me clamming up, which unfortunately makes him even more heated because he thinks I'm just giving him the 'silent treatment' when I'm actually not. Rational goes out the window on both sides. We'll normally just go to different parts of the house until we've both calmed down, and then afterwards we'll talk about it all rationally. Given we've been together 13 years at the end of this month, this way of dealing with a 'big argument' must be working well for us if/and when one does happen haha.
That has worked so well in my relationship as well. We both are so bold headed that when something gets heated we tend don't really use logic so I have noticed that when we just take a little and calm down it does do wonders. Congratulations on going on 13 years! That is an accomplishment! We just celebrated five years together this last month and it has been going well so far other than the occasional argument. :)


He tries to split hairs on wordings of things and used to in the past try to make everything sound like it had to be totally logical (like emotions weren't valid arguments, etc).
This right here! In my realtionship this can turn a small argument into a large one. My INTJ will nit pick the hell out of my wording and I hate it. He totally knows what I mean but he likes to try and get me with the word choice which drives me up a wall.

But the ENFJ friend I know is much more out spoken and for lack of a better word "aggressive" in arguments and very stubborn. She makes me feel uncomfortable when she gets like that and makes me feel like she doesn't actually want to hear anyone else's perspective because she's so locked into her own and kind of "attacks" (although I don't think she sees it as that) people who speak up and differ from her viewpoint. I don't know if this is just me or an ESFJ thing but I feel like I keep pretty calm and while I can totally be stubborn too and think I'm right, I'd rather have peace and calm than always be "right." In the end, no one truly "wins" arguments in a relationship because you still have to live with this person forever so proving that you're "right" and being stubborn about it really only drives the other person away....which in the end hurts you because you want to have a good relationship with your partner and not just be the winner and alone. One of the many reasons I try to be careful with my wording during heated arguments is because I know at some point we'll make up again but I don't want to regret the words I've said because I truly love this person and want to have a harmonious family. And to be totally honest, I expect more of myself and slumming it during fights makes me look bad to myself.
You made several great points! I don't know why but I have noticed that ENFJs do have a very strong opinion I guess you could say. I see it in myself and other ENFJs but I have really tried to work on it. Sometimes I just think something is right because to me its obvious and morally right even though to someone else it is not true for them. I think this can be part of the issues with the arguments I have had with my partner. He finds things very logical and it must be right because it's logical while I am on the other end saying it must be right because it makes others/me feel this way.

I also agree with the point you made about always being "right". I know that is so stupid and immature but sometimes I do feel like that so I do definitely need to work on just trying to comprise since I do love this person and want to be with them.

Anyway, just as a disclaimer, I am not always arguing with my partner! I was re-reading my messages and was like oh my gosh I make it seem like I am in this unhappy relationship. I am very happy, I just wanted opinions on how others dealt with arguments in relationships since they are bound to happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
@Ashes4719, no worries! Never thought even for a second that you all argue a lot or anything like that. All people in relationships have disagreements and I read somewhere in some psychology paper that the way couples resolve these fights are more indicative of their future success than whether or not they ever have an argument.

I'm not sure if this will help you with an INTJ, but I have found with my INTP husband that I can't argue in his wheelhouse. Like anytime I would try to defend my side with pure logic and no emotion, I immediately lose. There's just no logic on logic fighting with an INTP that I'm going to win. They'll always find that one word that you said that could be taken a different way. That was hard sometimes because I honestly didn't even remember what I said because it was more about the feelings behind the words than the actual dictionary definition. So then he felt like I was being evasive and changing my "story" when I would say I didn't remember saying those words or something like that. I wanted him to get the emotions and he wanted to get the words and we just talked right past each other into a world of hurt.

What I've realized is that back then I felt sometimes like he should just "know" what I mean when I talk about feelings things (because it's SO obvious to me), but the truth is...he just didn't. Sometimes he needed to piece together the facts of the timeline of events before he could get to the emotions. And for me, it's like I just want him to get why I'm so upset and the feelings involved and the rest of it doesn't matter. But now we've found a better way to talk about it. He tries to validate my feelings and I'll try to find ways to make things a little less emotionally charged or directed (he would totally just shut down and not even try to listen if he felt I was directing my emotional anger at him vs just wanting to be understood). He accepts now that there's a "feeler logic" and while it doesn't always make sense to him, he know it's real and doesn't try to squash them anymore. And in return, I try to realize that sometimes too many emotions are overwhelming for him and I'll try my best to stay calm and collected and not too stubborn. I focus more on being understood than setting out to "win."

About the feeling like sometimes you just feel morally right, I think that's something we all can feel sometimes. I used to think things were much more black and white than I do now. My husband has really helped among other things broaden my view on it. He once dissected in great detail the old "Golden Rule' that so many kids back in the day were taught about "treating others the way you'd like to be treated." At first I was like, well of course. Makes sense. Good rule to live by. But then he was like but what if you're someone who enjoys being cat called because you like the attention and it makes you feel attractive, do you get to just go treat others that way then too even if it may make them uncomfortable? Obviously there are many other examples. The point being, we don't know what's best for others. So our "moral rightness" may work for us but may not necessarily be right for anyone else so when we hold this up high and use it as a grounds to fight all scorched earth, it really just weakens our relationships and makes us less open minded. I've also been around a few *STJs who are older and hold on firmly to their "rightness" and man, it makes them just look very closed off to the world and embittered. I really don't want to end up that way just so on my deathbed I can say "Ah ha! I was right! See everyone!".... What's the point of that?


Anyway, hope some of that made sense. Enjoyed reading your posts!
 

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@Ashes4719

About the feeling like sometimes you just feel morally right, I think that's something we all can feel sometimes. I used to think things were much more black and white than I do now. My husband has really helped among other things broaden my view on it. He once dissected in great detail the old "Golden Rule' that so many kids back in the day were taught about "treating others the way you'd like to be treated." At first I was like, well of course. Makes sense. Good rule to live by. But then he was like but what if you're someone who enjoys being cat called because you like the attention and it makes you feel attractive, do you get to just go treat others that way then too even if it may make them uncomfortable? Obviously there are many other examples. The point being, we don't know what's best for others. So our "moral rightness" may work for us but may not necessarily be right for anyone else so when we hold this up high and use it as a grounds to fight all scorched earth, it really just weakens our relationships and makes us less open minded. I've also been around a few *STJs who are older and hold on firmly to their "rightness" and man, it makes them just look very closed off to the world and embittered. I really don't want to end up that way just so on my deathbed I can say "Ah ha! I was right! See everyone!".... What's the point of that?


Anyway, hope some of that made sense. Enjoyed reading your posts!
Yes, your input has totally helped! I am so glad I read these posts and asked if anyone else had any ways to get through arguments with their SO. I also have tried to logically argue with him but it never works so I will try to just explain in my point of view. I just have tried to bridge that gap but the same thing will happen with me. I forget my words but remember the meaning and I end up confusing my boyfriend even more because I used synonyms and I don't even remember what I said because I was just upset. So, that is a good idea and I think I am going to try and use that next time to explain my feelings more. He also gets overwhelmed with feelings so that is why I have backed off but I think I just need to get better at communicating with him and trying to explain my point from a level headed perspective.

Haha yes, I have noticed that. My grandfather is an ESTJ and he is so stuck in his conservative ways. Yes, I think having an open mind is the healthiest way to live. Always willing to listen and learn. I once heard this saying that said something like "everyone you speak with knows something that you don't" and I have always tried to live by that and ask questions.

Hahaha I really don't want to end up that way just so on my deathbed I can say "Ah ha! I was right! See everyone!"! That does seem very childish doesn't it yet some people I guess want that. Anyway, yes thank you so writing to me! It is so enjoyable to relate with people on here and read their stories. I am definitely going to try and use your tactic to better communicate with my INTJ :)
 

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so, a lot of people online say I'm ESFJ

here are my doubts about that

I don't really have friends, I don't know why but I can't seem to really get along with most people, I don't really know how to read other people's emotions or needs, or how I come across - seems like ESFJs would be better with all of this. I can see a lot of similarities between myself and many of the types. The odd thing is, I don't really see myself in the SPs or NJs . . . even though some keep pointing me to some kind of SP.

I'm looking to see if any ESFJ relates to this. Maybe dominant Fe doesn't necessarily mean that I would be better at these things.
Word up Pal.

My ESFJ wife and ESFJ son have very few friends.
My son still has some hangers on from school and what not
but now that he has his job/woman/kid(s) ? That is shrinking out.

My ESFJ wife has like zero friends yet everyone likes her.
She wholeheartedly (for better or for worse) dedicates all
of her time to myself and our family. Now keep in mind we
have enough family to keep her busy.

I dont find as much that my ESFJ's can read my emotions as easy as say the NF in
my life can.
Yet they can read the rooms emotions very well. Very well.
Think of the group with ESFJ. That is how they operate.
( I will caveat this by adding that any ESFJ who has an SO/Kids?
They definitely, over time, can read that person via recognized
cues that they have learned. The same way ENTP can).


Its not MY SO that enthralls the ESFJ as much as it is the
ESFJ's life. Everything around her/him. Fairness. That is
what I see in ESFJ I know. Even at the expense of an SO.
Which is a good thing to be sure. It keeps me honest.

Think of friends or groups to an ESFJ like this.....

They are the manager of the group. The whole group must
be functional and happy (if possible). So what that means is
even the ESFJ's second in command can get the raw truth
all the way down to the lonely part timer. The group
on a whole is what my ESFJ's look at. One person within
the group is but a small piece to the whole.

I would say, as you mentioned, that dominant Fe would not be
as good or used for the forecasting of the unknown (such as what someone
may be feeling) I would assume that is the N stomping ground coupled with a healthy
F.
So have a look here.
INFP=Fi/Ne
ENFP=Ne/Fi
INFJ=Ni/Fe
ENFJ=Fe/Ni

You see, I may assume that the types up there are
more astute at gleaning emotion. Intuitively.

As appose to the SF types that lead or follow with the S/F.



Maybe way off there... just guessing.

Hear tell from a member I trust that the function stacks are crappy and
do not mean anything so I tend to second guess using them.
 

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@Ashes4719

Kinda rando post i got here and not really sure about why I am doing but
I came back to see a thanks I got and started to peruse the thread.

I typically ramble so I am going to try and make this short (bwhahahaha ...ahhhhh ...ahhh)
Moving on....

As an NT in a 20 year relationship with a Feeler (ESFJ).
As well as a 24 year old ESFJ son.


Logic sucks. Rational actors we are not. Its fun to think about.
It can help and indeed can make for some level headed arguments.
That said. Almost all decisions made by humans are based off of
emotion and feelings.

Never give up on pushing your morals and one sided feelings.
I am not saying be pig headed. Just be clear. Your feelings and the recognition
of how they effect you and your choices are far more important then the
rational actor bit. If we are going to logic the shit out of items? Great!
Schedules dealing with finances work ect ect ... yet those items
are tangible. They are measurable. The only argument would be how much
or how little. Pretty easy. Most arguments between my wife and I are not
about logical/rational items. They are about how we FEEL about happenings
in our lives.

I guess what I am getting at is this here..... Was it important for my ESFJ to
understand that I may argue logic all the time? Yes. What was more important is that
I realized that logic is not love. Logic is not life. Logic fails me when my heart hurts.
Logic fails me when my son is sick, logic failed me when my brother died, logic failed
me when I felt betrayed. Logic for all its goodness should be taken into consideration
on an operational level of functioning towards measurable goals.

Feelings and emotion are much, much harder to suss out intention and conform to
no logic. NT way of getting out of feeling bad or culpable? NT:"Well you shouldn't
feel bad because the choice I made is logically sound" Flawed on so many levels.
Now the NT does not have to "feel" ? Sure ....if thats what we wanna think.

Your/peoples feelings cant be ....wrong...they can just be.
They need to be recognized and expressed lest they fester.

As an NT dealing with a plethora of feelers in my life?
My life became so much more fulfilled when I accepted that
feelings will always play the bigger role in almost all things.
Known to my rationality or not.

Obviously there are sociopaths/narcissist and so on.. but thats extreme.

Then again? I am an ENTP (E--P) may be a heck of a sight different
then how an I--J will role out.

My wifes feelings and emotions are important to me. I love her.
That is all I need to know to except the responsibility of helping
her through emotional/feeling mayhem. When she hurts? I need
not logic the hurt away. It almost never works. I need to listen
and understand. I don't have to agree but I need to understand that
her feeling that way is important by default even from a logical stand
point as she is in my life.
 

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@FueledByEvil Thank you so much for taking the time to write this. I needed to read this because sometimes I do feel like my partner can be like a robot. Not in the sense that he doesn't feel, of course, he does, but he can bury them so easy and just focus on other things. So, sometimes when we get into arguments, I am not sure how he is feeling or if he even cares because I am upset and he's not understanding. I have tried to be more logically but in the end, I just end up not even getting my point across because I am out of my realm so to speak.

Anyway, I really appreciate your post and words of encouragement. I am so sorry about your brother as well. I hope all is well with you.
 

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so, a lot of people online say I'm ESFJ

here are my doubts about that

I don't really have friends, I don't know why but I can't seem to really get along with most people, I don't really know how to read other people's emotions or needs, or how I come across - seems like ESFJs would be better with all of this. I can see a lot of similarities between myself and many of the types. The odd thing is, I don't really see myself in the SPs or NJs . . . even though some keep pointing me to some kind of SP.

I'm looking to see if any ESFJ relates to this. Maybe dominant Fe doesn't necessarily mean that I would be better at these things.
I think we need more details about you in order to understand what type you are. As a child, being raised by a single ESTJ mother who worked all the time, I was similar to what you are describing. I was very anxious and shy towards people and almost feared them. I definitely became better at reading other people's emotions, but it took time. Do you ever find yourself wanting human interaction or are you perfectly content being totally alone for long periods of time? Can you describe yourself and how a normal day would be for you? The more details the better!
 

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How often are you approached by someone new?
What are the most likely circumstances that you are approached?
I believe I am often approached by new people depending on the setting. Sometimes I like to approach new people (especially the shy ones lol) if I am in a social setting to include them. I seem to be approached when I am socializing with close friends and emit a sort of bubbly and happy energy. A setting where I get approached a lot are when I attend raves. I seem to be approached when I am minding my own business and genuinely enjoying myself. I believe I emit a welcoming and happy energy towards all, which is why many people approach me. This energy continues into a professional setting where people find comfort in confiding in me.
As an INTP, do you find many people approach you? When they do, how do you respond?
 

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I think we need more details about you in order to understand what type you are. As a child, being raised by a single ESTJ mother who worked all the time, I was similar to what you are describing. I was very anxious and shy towards people and almost feared them. I definitely became better at reading other people's emotions, but it took time. Do you ever find yourself wanting human interaction or are you perfectly content being totally alone for long periods of time? Can you describe yourself and how a normal day would be for you? The more details the better!
I used to be very social, and now I'm a lot more withdrawn, because of rejection. I used to love being the center of attention. Then I just got mocked and insulted because no one could appreciate me for having the courage and confidence to be different and display that. So now, to repeat, I'm a lot more reserved than I was. I try to bring a lot less attention to myself, so much that I very often want to talk with people but I don't know what to talk about.

Yes I often want human interaction because I get very lonely. I'm content to spend some time by myself, but eventually I'll get very bored and lonely. Eventually I feel like what's the point in doing anything completely alone, and it's not fun because there's no one to share it with. A normal day I'm at home and I never leave, not that I enjoy it but I just never have any transportation or money to do anything else. In spite of my efforts, I'm still waiting to be hired for a job. I do chores, I play games, I talk with my mother, I give our dog some affection, I try to get up my courage to take on some responsibilities that daunt me emotionally like contacting Collection Agencies and checking my email and applying for more jobs.

An ideal day would be to have a job that I enjoy, with coworkers that really respect me because that makes it easier for me to respect them. Or a trip to the zoo because I love animals. Or a trip to an amusement park because I like the rides. I like classical music more than any other genre so the only kind of concert I'd like would be at a music hall, to watch an orchestra or an opera. As long as I'm adequately dressed for it, I like restaurants. I like bowling. I've never played golf, just miniature, so that sounds fun. There's a lot of physical activities I'm just not interested in, so I'm listing what I do like. I can't swim but I like to sit or stand in the shallow parts of pools. Video game arcades are fun. Even though I almost never have the means to enjoy any of this, I do have the desire.

I'm not very good at reading other people's emotions unless they make it obvious with some direct behavior like an expression or avoidance, but I do pay attention to behavior and I can tell when someone changed inside, when something that they're doing isn't who they are most of the time, or when they're lying for humor, or when there's something I can't specifically identify about them that just seems different than how they used to be.

currently I'm considering either ISFP or ESFP for myself
 

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I used to be very social, and now I'm a lot more withdrawn, because of rejection. I used to love being the center of attention. Then I just got mocked and insulted because no one could appreciate me for having the courage and confidence to be different and display that. So now, to repeat, I'm a lot more reserved than I was. I try to bring a lot less attention to myself, so much that I very often want to talk with people but I don't know what to talk about.

Yes I often want human interaction because I get very lonely. I'm content to spend some time by myself, but eventually I'll get very bored and lonely. Eventually I feel like what's the point in doing anything completely alone, and it's not fun because there's no one to share it with. A normal day I'm at home and I never leave, not that I enjoy it but I just never have any transportation or money to do anything else. In spite of my efforts, I'm still waiting to be hired for a job. I do chores, I play games, I talk with my mother, I give our dog some affection, I try to get up my courage to take on some responsibilities that daunt me emotionally like contacting Collection Agencies and checking my email and applying for more jobs.

An ideal day would be to have a job that I enjoy, with coworkers that really respect me because that makes it easier for me to respect them. Or a trip to the zoo because I love animals. Or a trip to an amusement park because I like the rides. I like classical music more than any other genre so the only kind of concert I'd like would be at a music hall, to watch an orchestra or an opera. As long as I'm adequately dressed for it, I like restaurants. I like bowling. I've never played golf, just miniature, so that sounds fun. There's a lot of physical activities I'm just not interested in, so I'm listing what I do like. I can't swim but I like to sit or stand in the shallow parts of pools. Video game arcades are fun. Even though I almost never have the means to enjoy any of this, I do have the desire.

I'm not very good at reading other people's emotions unless they make it obvious with some direct behavior like an expression or avoidance, but I do pay attention to behavior and I can tell when someone changed inside, when something that they're doing isn't who they are most of the time, or when they're lying for humor, or when there's something I can't specifically identify about them that just seems different than how they used to be.

currently I'm considering either ISFP or ESFP for myself
I am getting the sense that you are more of an ESFP, but not entirely sure until I ask you more questions. Do you have the desire to go out of your way to help other people and to make their lives better over your own? Do you enjoy cleaning and completing chores? Does it give you a sense of accomplishment and fulfillment?

On another note, I'm sorry for the experiences you've have in the past, it is tough being bullied. My apologizes if any of my comments come off too blunt or offensive, as it is not my intention! I believe that you should maybe make a list of all your stressors in life and to jot them down from most important to least important (like your call to the collections agency being the top). Then one by one you can attempt to complete them with a resolution. Don't be afraid to ask for help or to ask for options on what you can do, most of the times people will only help if they are asked. I know it will seem like a lot all at once, but it will at least be organized enough for you to tackle the stresses in your life!
 

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I am getting the sense that you are more of an ESFP, but not entirely sure until I ask you more questions. Do you have the desire to go out of your way to help other people and to make their lives better over your own? Do you enjoy cleaning and completing chores? Does it give you a sense of accomplishment and fulfillment?
going out of my way, in my perspective, is a very big spectrum, so I do out of my way, but I'm not sure if how I perceive that is the same as you . . . I somewhat enjoy cleaning and doing chores, to some extent I do like to keep moving even though I'm not very strong to do as much as say . . . jocks lol

yeah, doing chores gives me the same feeling that I had when I had jobs, I feel very good about myself to just do simple stuff and be respected/appreciated for it, I don't like a lot of praise but just to know they're glad I did it is very good to know so I don't feel like it was in vain, money is necessary for life so having jobs was also great for that, plus I like earning money for stuff I don't need but want, and even just doing the work physically is sometimes fun for me, I try to mix a professional and fun attitude, but my coworkers didn't share my passion, they were so serious it scared me and made me want to push back against that a little, but in the end they won, I got fired, oh well, you live and learn and I guess I keep learning the hard way that some jobs don't allow me to be silly

On another note, I'm sorry for the experiences you've have in the past, it is tough being bullied. My apologizes if any of my comments come off too blunt or offensive, as it is not my intention! I believe that you should maybe make a list of all your stressors in life and to jot them down from most important to least important (like your call to the collections agency being the top). Then one by one you can attempt to complete them with a resolution. Don't be afraid to ask for help or to ask for options on what you can do, most of the times people will only help if they are asked. I know it will seem like a lot all at once, but it will at least be organized enough for you to tackle the stresses in your life!
my experience with bullies wasn't that bad in comparison to the stories you hear out there, it didn't last very long, I got into some fights, I almost got arrested once for trying to stab a kid with a paper clip because he kept bugging me for a whole week, I kicked another kid in the shins and made him bleed for talking about my mother and sisters like objects to please his libido - I don't remember getting in trouble for that, I don't regret it to this day, I probably wouldn't do that to anyone again because I've changed, but I'm very defensive about anyone talking about the women in my family like that - other than that, a lot of bullies I confronted them with my words and they left me alone after that, I talked them away, that was when I got older and realized that getting physical was taking a toll on my weak body, I didn't enjoy it, and I got into a lot of trouble for doing that because someone always found out

anyway, thanks for saying that, I appreciate it, it was tough at first because I didn't take a stand for myself

no that's cool, I haven't taken any offense from you so far lol

I appreciate the advice to get organized, but I've got it organized in my head and heart, and I don't like to be much more organized than that because I feel limited lol - hey who knows, maybe some day I'll be ready to confine myself to some order and do that
 

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going out of my way, in my perspective, is a very big spectrum, so I do out of my way, but I'm not sure if how I perceive that is the same as you . . . I somewhat enjoy cleaning and doing chores, to some extent I do like to keep moving even though I'm not very strong to do as much as say . . . jocks lol

yeah, doing chores gives me the same feeling that I had when I had jobs, I feel very good about myself to just do simple stuff and be respected/appreciated for it, I don't like a lot of praise but just to know they're glad I did it is very good to know so I don't feel like it was in vain, money is necessary for life so having jobs was also great for that, plus I like earning money for stuff I don't need but want, and even just doing the work physically is sometimes fun for me, I try to mix a professional and fun attitude, but my coworkers didn't share my passion, they were so serious it scared me and made me want to push back against that a little, but in the end they won, I got fired, oh well, you live and learn and I guess I keep learning the hard way that some jobs don't allow me to be silly


my experience with bullies wasn't that bad in comparison to the stories you hear out there, it didn't last very long, I got into some fights, I almost got arrested once for trying to stab a kid with a paper clip because he kept bugging me for a whole week, I kicked another kid in the shins and made him bleed for talking about my mother and sisters like objects to please his libido - I don't remember getting in trouble for that, I don't regret it to this day, I probably wouldn't do that to anyone again because I've changed, but I'm very defensive about anyone talking about the women in my family like that - other than that, a lot of bullies I confronted them with my words and they left me alone after that, I talked them away, that was when I got older and realized that getting physical was taking a toll on my weak body, I didn't enjoy it, and I got into a lot of trouble for doing that because someone always found out

anyway, thanks for saying that, I appreciate it, it was tough at first because I didn't take a stand for myself

no that's cool, I haven't taken any offense from you so far lol

I appreciate the advice to get organized, but I've got it organized in my head and heart, and I don't like to be much more organized than that because I feel limited lol - hey who knows, maybe some day I'll be ready to confine myself to some order and do that
I definitely do not believe you are an ESFJ lol. Just based on what you've explained to me in these posts, I cannot relate to them at all. You seem like an ESFP to me because you care about your appearance, you're more silly/fun at work, like doing what you want to do rather than what you should do, you seem to have a hard time understanding other people's emotions, crave attention in a sense, and seem to be more functional when spontaneous.

My best friend is an ESFP Male and you seem to be like him. He is probably healthier than you are (in terms of awareness, not actual health), but he lives his life by approaching it one step at a time and enjoying every moment that comes by. Try to be yourself and those who like you will naturally approach you. If they do not like you, then drop it. Friends come and go, you just got to deal with it as best as you can. Try to have a more optimistic approach in life, whenever you notice a negative try to see the positive. My ESFP friend tends to be kind of like a lost puppy, but I gave him advice on how to organize his life a bit and he eventually got to a point where he could live his life based on what makes him happy while managing a job to pay for his bills. Embrace who you are and stop living to other people's standards because we are all different and hold different values. I value security and my ESFP friend values happiness, we live totally different lives but we both are thriving in our own standards.
 
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