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Se-dom's are the kind of people to beat ourselves up over our choices.
If anything, I would have guessed the opposite. Do you mean choices you have already made, choices you are in the process of making, or choices you'll make in the future?

-Albert.
 

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I can't speak for other ESTP. I like to think I'm the sort of person that accepts responsibility when I'm wrong and apologizes. Not that I have a similar personality to Worf from ST but here:


But real life isn't always that simple. Miscommunications happen and people don't always see the world the same way. Or some people have been trained in 'cover-your-ass' culture, where admitting fault will get the pants sued off you and it's carried over to other parts of their lives and how they parent. Some people are compulsive liars. I can't tell you what the story was behind the ESTP in your life. There's a long list of possibilities. Obviously it upset and bothered you, but I wouldn't count on the ESTP feeling any responsibility for what happened if they haven't apologized and accepted responsibility. Either they don't care about you or they sincerely don't believe they have done anything wrong. If your criticism had the effect you were hoping for, it would have happened by now. Se-dom's are the kind of people to beat ourselves up over our choices. If we're smart, we learn from them and if we aren't, we keep repeating them indefinitely until we learn or destroy ourselves.
That makes sense, thanks for answering and for your honest input.
 

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Do you also get angry and annoyed when people are mad at you, instead of just feeling "ashamed"?
Sometimes I get angry, but I think I more commonly laugh. Does anyone else here sometimes or often laugh at angry people?

Note that I'm not an ESTP, and I really only know I am NP.

-Albert.
 

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Sometimes I get angry, but I think I more commonly laugh. Does anyone else here sometimes or often laugh at angry people?

Note that I'm not an ESTP, and I really only know I am NP.

-Albert.
I'm still trying to make sense of TeamPB's question. Why would I feel ashamed because someone is angry with me?

More often I'm indifferent when someone is angry with me. A lot of people get angry over things they are responsible for but refuse to accept responsibility for. They did it to themselves and anyone that doesn't bend over backwards to fix it for them, will cause them to be angry. If people make a scene because they're angry, I'm usually still indifferent unless they start looking like an idiot.

An old friend of mine used to laugh a lot when people were angry with her. It looked like she didn't know how to react to making someone unhappy, even though to my point, she hadn't made them unhappy, they made themselves unhappy. If someone is running late because they didn't give themselves extra time and she chooses not to expedite them because then it might make her run late, the only person they have any right to be angry with is themselves.
 

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An old friend of mine used to laugh a lot when people were angry with her. It looked like she didn't know how to react to making someone unhappy, ...
Describing it that way, making someone "unhappy", sounds different -- if they are sad, I can sympathise with that. Not so much if they react with anger.

Laughing isn't the best reaction if you want them to calm down, because it could easily make them more angry.

-Albert.
 

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What happens when you die? :eek:h: :crazy:
According to evidence from regression hypnosis and near-death experiences, our consciousness (mind, spirit, soul, psyche?) leaves the body, and we can see the body from outside without our eyes. Later, as far as hypnotic regression suggests, we incorporate (incarnate if you prefer) again with another body.

As I see it, the body is a tool, a chemical robot, an interface for the spirit to interact with the material world. Through our chemical computer, the brain, we can enjoy cocaine (see my avatar btw.) and many other things that require us to have a material representation.

Surely there must be some way to achieve a purely spiritual "high" without the need for a body? Love maybe?

-Albert.
 

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Describing it that way, making someone "unhappy", sounds different -- if they are sad, I can sympathise with that. Not so much if they react with anger.

Laughing isn't the best reaction if you want them to calm down, because it could easily make them more angry.

-Albert.
I don't think anyone makes someone angry. People choose to react with anger. I have strong, negative emotions toward people who do things that I don't like. But I don't give anyone that amount of power over me. I'm in control of how I react to them. They can't make me anything.
 

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I don't think anyone makes someone angry. People choose to react with anger. I have strong, negative emotions toward people who do things that I don't like. But I don't give anyone that amount of power over me. I'm in control of how I react to them. They can't make me anything.
You have a point, but there is a spectrum from getting angry easily with little provokation on one hand, and scarcely getting angry with serious provokation on the other hand. Most people are somewhere in between these extremes.

And not everyone is in control of their reaction; for a lot of people it "just happens" when they get triggered.

I think that if you have the "skill" (haha), if you know which "buttons" to push, you can make almost anyone angry -- or get them to choose to get angry.

-Albert.
 

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You have a point, but there is a spectrum from getting angry easily with little provokation on one hand, and scarcely getting angry with serious provokation on the other hand. Most people are somewhere in between these extremes.

And not everyone is in control of their reaction; for a lot of people it "just happens" when they get triggered.

I think that if you have the "skill" (haha), if you know which "buttons" to push, you can make almost anyone angry -- or get them to choose to get angry.

-Albert.


I was extremely impulsive as a kid. I could swing wildly between emotions and was always being disciplined for my lack of self-control. I was a victim to other kids whims. They would get me to throw something or yell back at them or do something that the teacher of the adult watching would discipline me for. Growing up, I got to the point where I decided I'm finished with being manipulated. It isn't a big deal for the person having fun at my expense, but it was a big deal for me.
Now that I'm an adult, I admit to having a little fun at the expense of people I'm convinced are trying to manipulate me. I'll press their buttons and enjoy watching them get angry. But I learned an important lesson growing up that no one can make me anything. It was always my choice. I can give them the reaction they want or I can press their buttons. I'm telling you, it's a lot more fun watching other people lose their shit than losing my own temper. It's been a long time since I lost my temper.
 

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I had people when I was young really, really want me to get angry. They hated that I was always calm so they pushed and bullied constantly trying to get me to snap. I feel like the emotion of anger, even rage, is uncontrollable in that it will occur regardless.

But action? Action is always controllable.

I used to feel like it was wrong to even be angry. I don't anymore. A couple of things I found out is that anger is an alarm system. It occurs when boundaries are being trampled, or when there's actually hurt or fear (or both) being masked. Probably more to it, that's just what I found so far.

@Roslyn thank you for that post. That gave me something to think about.
 

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I had people when I was young really, really want me to get angry. They hated that I was always calm so they pushed and bullied constantly trying to get me to snap. I feel like the emotion of anger, even rage, is uncontrollable in that it will occur regardless.

But action? Action is always controllable.


Yeah, I haven't reached awe inspiring discipline to not feel anger, but I can control not just my actions but my reaction to them. You know when your heart starts really pumping hard and you can feel it in chest? When I become aware that I can feel my heartbeat, I think of the sound of my heartbeat and as soon as I do that, it starts slowing down. It's like magic! I don't know why it works for me, but it works great! If you can think of it when you're angry, give it whirl. As soon as I slow down my heartbeat, I can think more clearly and I handle situations how I want to handle them. Not just flying off the handle.
 

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Growing up, I got to the point where I decided I'm finished with being manipulated.
How long did it take from the time of the decision till you could control it? What did you have to do to get there?

But I learned an important lesson growing up that no one can make me anything. It was always my choice.
So earlier in your life, you just didn't realise you had a choice?

I'm telling you, it's a lot more fun watching other people lose their shit than losing my own temper.
Of course.

You know when your heart starts really pumping hard and you can feel it in chest? When I become aware that I can feel my heartbeat, I think of the sound of my heartbeat and as soon as I do that, it starts slowing down. It's like magic! I don't know why it works for me, but it works great!
I think I understand what you mean. I use an analogous method to control anxiety. I just concentrate the best I can on the anxiety, trying to feel it as fully as I can, and sometimes even imagine it is worse than it is. When I do this, the anxiety goes away much faster than if I try to suppress it.

-Albert.
 

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You know when your heart starts really pumping hard and you can feel it in chest? When I become aware that I can feel my heartbeat, I think of the sound of my heartbeat and as soon as I do that, it starts slowing down. It's like magic!
Haha, that's amazing. It's part of the mindset of a martial artist, things they learn with all the discipline and mindfulness. Good stuff. Will definitely keep that in mind.
 

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How long did it take from the time of the decision till you could control it? What did you have to do to get there?



So earlier in your life, you just didn't realise you had a choice?



Of course.



I think I understand what you mean. I use an analogous method to control anxiety. I just concentrate the best I can on the anxiety, trying to feel it as fully as I can, and sometimes even imagine it is worse than it is. When I do this, the anxiety goes away much faster than if I try to suppress it.

-Albert.
I don't know exact ages. It was an understanding that developed over time. As a little kid I saw it as my parents making me angry or kids making me angry. It felt entirely unfair when I was being punished for my behavior when it was their fault. I think I gradually saw it differently in ballet classes. Each breath powers my muscles and I need my oxygen to move through my body efficiently. Breathing, heartbeat and movement is all connected. If you aren't doing it right, it's hard to create lines. I think that's where I started thinking about what other natural responses I have that I could control.

I think I started working on it around Grade 1 or Grade 2. It became unusual for me to lose my temper until middle school and then I had some blow outs. I cooled off again during high school. It's been a long time since I gave someone enough power over me to have me lose my temper over them. It was mostly trial and error when I was small and I figured out the heartbeat tracking somewhere between middle school and high school. It was gradual.
 

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I've been wondering... how/why do people get "Retired"? For example, Crossover Chaos was just here posting, but now she's retired already.

-Albert.
 
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