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@Spiny and @Rhee, thanks for the thoughtful responses.


I have to know about the problem in order to fix it.
I like this attitude about things. I just don't want to sound too picky. I don't want to constantly bring up every little thing.

If I had fair reason to believe that things aren't going to go anywhere, then I would end it. I mean, it would only be harder for both parties later on.
This is actually nice to hear. The reason I have all these questions suddenly is because the ISTJ I'm seeing decided to ask me all these questions randomly yesterday and took me totally off guard. Questions like, "What are the chances of us having a serious relationship with me being (here) and you being (there) soon," etc. "I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth the effort, but I just thought it should be out there before we dive into anything."

Needless to say I was like wooooahhh. He said it was stuff he thought had to be brought up, and the sooner the better.

Later he asked how I was doing and apologized for "dropping a bomb" on me. Tells me he likes me, and says he thinks the smart thing to do now is pull back a little and try to let it develop more and play out to see how it would be.

It just made me suddenly start over-thinking everything, wondering why he was asking so soon etc. They were all things I'd already discussed with myself in my own mind, and I had already been planning on taking it slow, sexually and every other way. It was almost like he'd had the revelation that I've been thinking all along.

I love the rationality of ISTJ's, and the directness. It makes things a lot easier, but it's also a little rough for my sensitive little heart.
 

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Your ultimate girl walks into your life. She's perfect in every way....and then ________ happens. What does she do to make you start doubting her perfection?
Well, I see the bias in this statement, here. :dry:

Alas, if the ultimate guy walked into my life, I'd start doubting their perfection if they were overly complimentary/clingy, or I could tell that they were viewing me through rose-colored glasses or idealizing me.
Haha sorry about that. I was really looking for a male perspective, but since this thread is for all ISTJ's I should have left it open. I like your response a lot though. Why do you not want to be idealized?
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
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Haha sorry about that. I was really looking for a male perspective, but since this thread is for all ISTJ's I should have left it open. I like your response a lot though. Why do you not want to be idealized?
Haha. No worries. We get that a lot. :tongue: It's true that there is quite a bit of difference between how male and female ISTJs act in relationships, although there can be quite a bit of similarity too. I was just intrigued by your questions, and wanted to answer them myself. :happy:

(I'm having a terrible time wording my thoughts today, but try to bear with me. TBH I have never thought much about why idealization bothers me so much, but I'd like to get to the bottom of it.)

The definition of ideal is "a conception of something in its absolute perfection." Clearly, I'm not perfect. Nobody is. The main problem with idealization, as I see it, is that at some point, the person is not going to match up with your ideals. When that happens, and the ideal shatters, I think it could cause a strain on the relationship. That is unless you are not tied to your ideals, but I still think it would be a jarring experience. I would rather start at "zero" and work my way up in their mind with little positive traits here and there, until they love me how I am, rather than start at "one hundred percent" and get knocked down every time I don't live up to an ideal. I guess this all stems from my idea that people generally don't change, so if you don't love someone how they are, then you are going to have to live with being in a relationship with someone who doesn't have all the traits you are looking for. Albeit, I'll admit that this view is likely from me just being naive.
 

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The reason I have all these questions suddenly is because the ISTJ I'm seeing decided to ask me all these questions randomly yesterday and took me totally off guard. Questions like, "What are the chances of us having a serious relationship with me being (here) and you being (there) soon," etc. "I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth the effort, but I just thought it should be out there before we dive into anything."
I can see where your guy's coming from. I like clearly defined relationships. Casual sex and serious relationships are both fine, but something in-between would drive me nuts.

I think this guy is into you enough to consider a committed relationship, which is a big deal for ISTJs. When I'm in, I'm in all the way - so it's important to know that the other person is on the same page ('does she share my feelings, would she commit to this relationship?')

If you're willing to give this thing a chance, let him know. He'll have absolutely no problem with taking things slow once he sees you're going to stick around.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
I feel the anticipation start to build at around 8.30. I get jittery and excited and can't really think about anything else for awhile. The pressure gets worse and worse until finally the clock strikes.... and I hear the familiar opening theme of my 9 o'clock News. YESSS!!!

The highlight of my day, and I sigh in satisfied contentment.
Ahahahahahaha! Rhee, you're hilarious!!!!!
Darn it, you two are cruel. Now I'm going to have to actually *read* that article. :dry: That wasn't the plan...I feel a meme-infection in my near-future-life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 · (Edited)
How do you approach relationships sexually? Sex changes the direction of a relationship. How do you handle that?
If I'm in a relationship, sex is going to be involved at some point. It might be a short time into the relationship, it might be a long time - depending upon how relaxed I feel about the other person and vice-versa. Once it happens it doesn't change the direction, simply intensifies.

If sex hasn't occurred after quite some time, then I would ask myself what the dealbreaker is that makes me not relaxed with this person or vice-versa. If sex was never on my mind then it's not a relationship, it's a friendship.

Would you put the brakes on something early on if you thought it might not work out, or would let it play out in order to be sure?
If my thought is "might not work out" then I would talk with them about that. If I'm sure that it will not work out then I will put the brakes on then and there. I dislike leading people on and they deserve to spend their time with someone who might be better for them.

If you wanted to let someone down without hurting them, how would you let them fall?
Preferably gently and honestly. I have been harsh with people who won't take no for an answer.

If someone was feeling hurt or insecure about something you did, would you rather they tell you (and use the word "insecure") or just let it go?
Tell me. Then I can evaluate my behaviour. I can also decide if they are actually warranted in their insecurity, or if they're an insecure person.

Your ultimate partner walks into your life. They're perfect in every way....and then ________ happens. What does he/she do to make you start doubting her perfection?
Insecurity, selfishness, rudeness, bad attitude, a bleak down outlook - just some of the things that turn me off. These are all character defects and I'm picky about who I want to spend my life with. I refuse to put up with *snipesnipesnipe* for the next 50+ years!

What is your preferred method of someone breaking things off with you?
Honestly and up-front. Then I can deal with it and move on. Do not toy with me, do not lead me on - when I find out about that behaviour you will get a very nasty response.
 

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How do you approach relationships sexually? Sex changes the direction of a relationship. How do you handle that?

Would you put the breaks on something early on if you thought it might not work out, or would let it play out in order to be sure?

If you wanted to let someone down without hurting them, how would let them fall? Or would you just cut the cord?

If someone was feeling hurt or insecure about something you did, would you rather they tell you (and use the word "insecure") or just let it go?

Your ultimate girl walks into your life. She's perfect in every way....and then ________ happens. What does she do to make you start doubting her perfection?

What is your preferred method of someone breaking things off with you?
These questions are fun and of course I'm reading the ISTJ answers with keen interest. I hope you don't mind that I've borrowed/ copied them and asked them in the ENFP forum; I'll be fascinated to see the different sorts of answers given there. http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-forum-inspirers/63945-random-relationship-questions.html#post1552975

And here's another question for you ISTJs: how do you think that the physical part of relationships (anything from hand-holding to sex) differs for ISTJs vs. other types? Eg. I'm guessing that you have very clearly-defined likes/dislikes (whereas we Perceivers might be more open to experimentation) and that PDA isn't particularly appreciated.
 

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@NaughyChimp


Correct. Most of us aren't too much into PDA, but we're known for being sensual cuddle monsters. While it is true we generally don't accept hugs even from most of our own friends too well, we won't tense up in a hug around those we trust and are close to.


As for sex, I've noticed many women tend to have unrealistically romantic notions of ISTJs. They see how we're generally very loyal and not likely to cheat and they extrapolate from this observation that we don't engage in one-night stands. I recall shattering quite a few fantasies completely a while ago when I posted this is completely is untrue. On the contrary, we ISTJs are more than just capable of "falling victim" to our inner male desires. We're able to disconnect emotionally when having sex with random women at will. For all this talk about ISTJs having an inherently strong sense of right and wrong, a good argument can be formulated that we can actually become the most incorrigible one-night standers if we wish to do so.


Slightly OT:

And I have to say that the ability to disconnect emotionally gives us ISTJs a good reputation for being able to think rationally, but it also gets us quite a bit of criticism from other types. When I keep it switched off, I'm able to approach people and appear warm, friendly, and genuinely interested in getting to know them better. But when I'm around select individuals for whom I feel absolutely no need to keep up appearances around, I promptly switch on the gears and radiate a calm yet cold aura. If I could just post pictures of the expressions of confusion and bewilderment that come across my peers' faces upon seeing the way I pull this off so artfully! In one recent instance, I knew these people were texting each other from no more than a few feet away and asking each other "WTF is he up to!" My silent answer: I'm not around you low-lives by choice. Consider yourselves honored to be graced by my presence.

:crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
My silent answer: I'm not around you low-lives by choice. Consider yourselves honored to be graced by my presence.

:crazy:
Stay out of bars. They're the lowest of dives. :crazy:

@NaughyChimp - PDAs, mmm, depends on the type of PDA.

You might be surprised at how pervy and experimental ISTJs can be. :3 Remember, the ISTJ type is only a third of what we are.

Edit: @Rhee got quoted? That was supposed to be @SoftBoiledLife I quoted - how on earth did that happen?! :crazy:
 

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Your ultimate girl walks into your life. She's perfect in every way....and then ________ happens. What does she do to make you start doubting her perfection?
Why do you not want to be idealized?
The __________ in my case would be betrayal - for example, sleeping around. Unacceptable. And people that say "I forgive you, but I won't forget" are full of it. If you're going to remember it, then in some small corner of your mind you haven't truly forgiven the person; IOW, you are always on guard, waiting for the other shoe to drop. This isn't true forgiveness. Which is why when something like this happens, I'm done. I've tried working past this in past relationships and it always ends in a bad way; harboring resentment while pretending that everything is hunky-dory doesn't work for me.

I don't want to be idealized by anyone because I'm just as human (and therefore prone to the same pitfalls) as the next person. I'm far from perfect. In fact, no human is perfect. What does impress me though? Let's say that you idealize me because of my work ethic. Impress me by showing up to work every time, on time. Don't call off sick just because you have a headache; I have Advil in my drawer and you are welcome to it. Let's start on that; once you have this ingrained into your mind the rest will come.
 

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Stay out of bars. They're the lowest of dives. :crazy:


You might be surprised at how pervy and experimental ISTJs can be. :3 Remember, the ISTJ type is only a third of what we are.

Edit: Rhee got quoted? That was supposed to be SoftBoiledLife I quoted - how on earth did that happen?! :crazy:
Way to misquoteRhee with the words of SoftBoiledLife in your last post. :wink:
It's ok. Rhee and I are equally awesome as it is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 · (Edited)
Question: Where do I find an ISTJ?

Answer: We are everywhere! The trouble is that, being introverts, we are not readily visible.

Look for the quiet guy/gal at the back or side of the room. That's likely an introvert. Move over there, sit down and relax. Let them get used to you, be non-threatening and casual.

There was a post on this, I can't find it right now though.

Edit: Found it!

http://personalitycafe.com/istj-forum-duty-fulfillers/61143-where-earth-istj-men.html

Thank you @XXXXDesire for this topic. :happy: And here's what I posted for her.

Where do ISTJs hang out?

I hang out at: the library, at yoga, down the beach (preferably deserted), in the park, walking through the bush.

How to spot an ISTJ?

It's a while before he starts to talk. When he talks he's very concrete. And he's a judgemental sod. :laughing:

What ISTJ men are like in relationships?

Slow to start with - will be some time before he feels safe enough to open up to you. Kind of like a clam, quite often retreats. Loyal beyond the boundaries of sanity. <_<

How would I know if ISTJ makes a good partner for me?

How would you know if anyone would make a good partner for you? There are good ISTJs and bad ISTJs, just like anyone else out there.
 

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Oh hey guys, remember meee?

I've been reading through this thread and it's been lots of fun. Hooray for localized general information!

I do have one question about the topic of idealization though:
Assuming you hate/dislike being idealized, are you able to tell the difference between love and idealization?

In case you're not sure what I mean, I have an example... sometimes when I look at my boyfriend I sort of get caught up in how pretty (handsome) he is and he'll catch me staring. Usually his response is something like laughing and saying, "what? No staring!" That might just be him wanting to know what's going on in the gears of my little INFJ mind, but similar things have occurred, so I'm wondering. Do you think you could make the mistake of interpreting love as idealization? They often have pretty similar symptoms, haha. I mean, I know no one's perfect, including my boyfriend - but when one is in love, it's pretty easy to forgive or even embrace shortcomings. Besides, I'd rather not revert to the old middle school days of "I like you so I'm going to be mean to you" shtick, haha.

I actually started on page three. I'll go back in the morning, read the rest, and see if I have any more questions. Thanks for your input on everything! It's interesting to see how we process these matters differently in some ways and similarly in others.
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
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I do have one question about the topic of idealization though:
Assuming you hate/dislike being idealized, are you able to tell the difference between love and idealization?

In case you're not sure what I mean, I have an example... sometimes when I look at my boyfriend I sort of get caught up in how pretty (handsome) he is and he'll catch me staring. Usually his response is something like laughing and saying, "what? No staring!" That might just be him wanting to know what's going on in the gears of my little INFJ mind, but similar things have occurred, so I'm wondering. Do you think you could make the mistake of interpreting love as idealization? They often have pretty similar symptoms, haha. I mean, I know no one's perfect, including my boyfriend - but when one is in love, it's pretty easy to forgive or even embrace shortcomings.
I agree there is a fine line between love and idealization. However, I think that line is drawn with how long/well you know each other. Of course I feel wrongly idealized if the person is saying things about me that aren't necessarily true after knowing each other for, say, a couple of weeks. Idealization tends to happen most often happens in the initial stages of a relationship, as I've seen, although it can persist for quite a while. I don't think staring necessarily counts as idealization, but of course it depends on how much you are actually seeing and how much you are just pretending to "love".

The problem is, as a Type 9 I know all too well how easy it can be to idealize someone and forgive/embrace their shortcomings. So I guess I'm quite the hypocrite. I have also been on the other side of the coin where I idealized someone at the start and they didn't live up to the ideal. So I guess I'm speaking from experience on both sides. Moral of story: Less idealization is usually better. Haha.
 

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MOTM May 2011
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can we also include relationship advice FOR istjs? I know I am pretty clueless when it comes to these things.....
I wouldn't...it would just muddy up the waters.

This is the ISTJ forum, so if you (as an ISTJ) have a relationship question, start a thread and we'll all answer.

The purpose of this thread is to consolidate the half dozen or so threads per week that we were getting in this forum from other types that are dating ISTJs and wanted to ask questions of other ISTJs about their ISTJ. (Hope that isn't too confusing.)
 

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MOTM May 2011
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I do have one question about the topic of idealization though:
Assuming you hate/dislike being idealized, are you able to tell the difference between love and idealization?
Yes. Idealization is a part of the infatuation stage. It should fade as the relationship develops and love replaces the infatuation. Infatuation and idealization in a relationship signal that the person feeling those things are in the relationship because of what they perceive the relationship or other person as doing for, or providing for them--IOW, it's selfish. As love develops, it becomes more about what you can do for the relationship and the other person--IOW, it's altruistic.

More concisely: My infatuation idealizes the person and overlooks their faults because of what I get out of the other person or the relationship. My love bluntly recognizes their faults and chooses to overlook them because of my commitment to them and the relationship.

Be careful with idealization. ISTJs hate falseness or insincerity and we tend to notice it very easily.
 

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More concisely: My infatuation idealizes the person and overlooks their faults because of what I get out of the other person or the relationship. My love bluntly recognizes their faults and chooses to overlook them because of my commitment to them and the relationship.

Be careful with idealization. ISTJs hate falseness or insincerity and we tend to notice it very easily.
But you would be able to tell the difference from the other side? I mean, it's very easy for me to tell that I'm not idealizing him because it's coming from me. I know I've always viewed him and our relationship from a realistic standpoint. In fact, under your definitions, we've always fallen under the "ask not what you can do for me, but what I can do for you" category, hahaha.

However, I do wonder if it might occasionally look like idealization from the other side, since I do have a habit of exuding a "puppy love/gooey eyes" sort of exterior... and if there's any way to prevent that misinterpretation from happening?
 

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I'm interested in reviving the issue of ISTJs and control in romantic relationships, which was discussed in depth in this threadhttp://personalitycafe.com/istj-forum-duty-fulfillers/53730-istj-control-relationships.html

Specifically, this particular instance with the ISTJ I'm dating... I inherited a generous amount of money when family members passed away and I invest it - usually with good results - and use the earnings to supplement my lifestyle. I am not a super-sophisticated investor but have had some measure of success thanks in part to a smart broker & accountant; I am by no means spendthrift and keep most of the earnings to reinvest and then spend some on items like paying outright for my house - no mortgage - and travel.

I've been dating an ISTJ for a while now and things are progressing VERY slowly by my standards but quite steadily. He knows that I have this money - haven't given him the dollar amount, of course - and says that if we were to marry, he would expect me to discuss it all with him, consult him on my investments, apprise him of my decisions regarding it, etc. My first reaction was, quite frankly, one of horror. My view of marriage has NEVER been the "what's yours is mine and mine is yours;" my parents (ISTJ & ISFJ) never had so much as a joint bank account and as long as they both put in their "share" into paying for common expenses, they didn't feel the right or even need to know what the other was doing with the rest of the income/ inheritance. So, both my family history and my ENFP-ness make this "you should discuss and consult me on money that you inherited & successfully managed long before I came along" seems like it could be rife for trouble.

Even if you have a different model of marital finances, can you ISTJs here at PerCafe understand my point of view enough to help advise me? Do you have any hints about ways I can discuss this calmly with my ISTJ: not even to convince him that my way is The Right Way (although, of course, that would be nice) but at least have him truly hear and understand me so that we can have a productive and respectful conversation? I imagine that the stability-seeking ISTJ needs some reassurance feelings of control but quite frankly I don't know how to give him that in a way that still honours my need for independence and self-determination in this matter.
 
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