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Ask Enneagram 8 relationship questions

[Enneagram Type 8] 
54K views 211 replies 63 participants last post by  drmiller100 
#1 ·
This is a thread to ask relationship questions of 8's. It is open to anyone, and obviously anyone can answer.
 
#2 ·
I can help. Please tag or quote me if you've like to ask about specific dynamics/experiences of a marriage between a 8w9 (ENTJ female) and a 9w8 (ISFP male).
 
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#3 ·
Hello

I have a question !

Does the 8 tend to be quite independent and "cold" without any reason ?

I mean, I met this guy one month ago (we talked about the enneagram and I think he is 8 and he thinks he is 8 as well), I don't think we are a "couple" yet because it is quite early, but we see each other quite often, we do parties with our friends, we're are very closed and affectionate when we're together, a friend of mine told me he seemed to really like me when she saw us ...
but when we don't see/can't see each other, he is another person ... He always answers hours after he saw the message, or he doesn't even answer and send a message about something totally different the day after like if I didn't send anything. He sometimes send silly and funny pictures but doesn't speak or have any conversation.

It is very frustrating, because when I am with him we get along very well but by texts I feel we don't communicate at all and that he is not interested anymore. I guess he is interested because he asked me to go out a lot and I feel there is something between us, but I don't understand why he acts like this.

Before, it was annoying because I always had the feeling he was going to cancel our dates because I didn't hear a lot of him (even if he never did), but as we were seeing each other quite often I didn't really care.

But now I am in holidays so I can't see him and I just have the feeling he doesn't give a shit. I don't know if he just likes real contact, or if he doesn't care, but I tend to get bored by this attitude because even if I am clearly not a "message freak", I think when you're interested by someone you can just show some interest with your reaction to messages, especially if you don't see the person.
Maybe I am stupid, but I really have the feeling to talk to a wall and I don't think it is fucking complicated to take 2 minutes to communicate with someone you like even if it's not real contact.

Anyway, I don't know if I'm clear. But that's something I don't understand. When people don't answer when you ask something or talk about something else without answering. That doesn't sound normal and logical to me lol, especially because i don't ask anything personal or annoying.
And the very weird thing is that he is absolutely different in real life ... I don't know what to think anymore

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
#4 ·
I don't have any idea if that's related to 8-ishness or not, but I at least don't view text messages as anything specifically urgent - they're an asynchronous medium for a reason. You demand my attention, give a call. Also I'd imagine if he's really interested in you just wait for the holidays to end. Chances are he's been missing you a hell of a lot.
 
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#5 ·
Yep you're right. We're probably just different. Last time I met I guy like that, I mean a guy who was very nice and perfect with me but very "evasive" and didn't really answer when he was away, he was a jerk.
I like truthful relationships but again, we're all different and what isn't logical for me can be totally normal for him, and that doesn't mean he doesn't care or that he is a jerk.
That's why I love the enneagram, because it makes you understand that we all have different motivations, but also that one behavior can have a lot more different motivation and meanings
 
#6 ·
how old is he? we do change.....

those communication issues sound more like mbti stuff than 8. Maybe he is an out of sight out of mind kind of person.
 
#7 ·
25.
Yes that's very frustrating. Especially because as a 4, I feel rejected and feel he doesn't care at all.
Even if I am not too much a clingy person and don't ask for thousands of messages, I like to communicate and if somebody ask me a question, I answer, I don't ignore the person or don't answer 2 days after ignoring the last message.

I really don't understand this kind of person when I meet them, I really feel a "wall" in those moments
And it is quite annoying not to know if he is just like this or if he is just no so interested, especially because when we can see each other and are together in "real life", he is just normal haha
 
#9 ·
So if you meet a guy (I know you're married but let's imagine :p), you would rather see him than communicate by text ? (I can understand that). But it also mean that if you can't see him for any reasons, you would rather wait for the moment you'll be able to see him even if it means wait 2 weeks than try to communicate by texts ?
I can understand that but it is just that is it quite "uncommon", and as I don't want to begin to "invest" myself in a relation (at this stage invest is a big word, but I don't want to care if if the other person absolutely don't care), I wanted to share with some persons who were actually like that haha

Thanks for your answer, that might be a bit reassuring :)
 
#10 ·
If I'm INTO someone, there is NO doubt I'm into them. I'm not shy. 8's are not shy.

do you want honest or nice? an 8 is going to be honest. based on your descriptions, he enjoys being with you, but not to the point he is interested in investing much of his time.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Yes he is clearly not shy. I like honesty.

From the beginning he'd always been like this by text, didn't answer a lot but he saw me very often anyway. He finishes work very late everyday but finished earlier to see me several times, saw me 3 times in 5 days before I left for holidays ... That's why I don't know what to think. I try to be objective thinking that if a guy is interested, he will show it, but as he has always been distant when we weren't together and very interested when we were seeing each other, I don't know what to think.
My intuition is always right but my intuition tells me that he is clearly interested and like me a lot when we're together, there is "something" I can feel that, but I feel the opposite when he is not with me, he is a totally different person.

He told my best friend he didn't want to get attached and that he had a lot of different one night stand last year. That he was different with me and wasn't playing with me, but just that he didn't really know what to think because he suffered from a past relationship and didn't want to be attached to somebody anymore.

Maybe that can explain that. But honestly, I am tired of considering open myself to people who actually don't give a fuck. I spent the last month seeing him quite often, and I am a bit hurt and frustrated by this situation.
 
#18 ·
Hmmmm.......... Great question. I'm going to wander about while answering this...... Please bear with me.

So I noticed you are a 9. My impression of 9's is they are more introverted, they are more in tune with most of their emotions than I am. Some of that is I am ENTP, and most of my 9 examples are INFP.

So a 9 is going to ask "do you feel hurt inside." because when done, they are likely to use an internal frame of reference.

I'm an extrovert, and 8's are generally much more extroverted than 9's. So, for me, the question is more "how does the world make me feel" or "how do you feel when something in the world hurts you".

And the answer to that is angry. Everytime something in the world manages to hurt me, I flame on and make room around me. Again, related to the world. I make room. A 9 is more likely to "retreat and hide."

again generalities.

i'm older than most here, but more immature than many here. 10 years ago, I really and truly did not understand my feelings. I did not understand that the vast majority of 18 year old INFP's understand their feelings more than I probably ever will.

I still don't understand my feelings. Am I a wounded soul who hides it with tough exterior shell? No, I don't see myself that way at all.
Things happen in life, and I can be hurt, and normally I get mad for a bit, then when ti quiets down I retreat and go learn about my feelings and examine them. I'll examine them by myself, or MAYBE with one trusted friend. Vulnerable.
 
#24 ·
Hey guys, I was wondering how an 8w7 might treat a close female friend within a friend group if he is interested in her?

One of my best friends in my core friend group is an 8w7 ESTP. He's really good at picking up girls, and he thinks about it a lot. I try to wingman him when I can. He doesn't seem to really care about the act of hooking up, he just likes to know how he can, if that makes sense. He's never had a girlfriend or anything serious.

But lately we've started roughhousing a bit more, which is mostly me taunting him and him using physical touch or trying to 'rough me up' (all in good fun). We also debate a fair amount, and I'm not one to back down. His energy level and intensity has really picked up around me lately, which is why I'm suddenly so attracted to him.

Since I'm his only close female friend, I'm not sure if he is interested in me or just treating me as one of the boys.

Another thing that I am curious about is his protectiveness of me. If a guy likes me (and it isn't reciprocated by me), he fantasizes about going over to him and beating him up if he doesn't stop talking to me. I'm not sure why he likes to do this, but it gets him all riled to think about it. He also gets kind of riled up if I am busy all the time. A few days ago, he started getting upset at how late I came back home after a day full of work, because he said that there was no need for someone to be that busy. People around us had to tell him to calm down. I'm not sure why he does this -- is it projecting his own need for independence from obligation onto me?
 
#25 ·
Since I'm his only close female friend, I'm not sure if he is interested in me or just treating me as one of the boys.

Another thing that I am curious about is his protectiveness of me. If a guy likes me (and it isn't reciprocated by me), he fantasizes about going over to him and beating him up if he doesn't stop talking to me. I'm not sure why he likes to do this, but it gets him all riled to think about it. He also gets kind of riled up if I am busy all the time. A few days ago, he started getting upset at how late I came back home after a day full of work, because he said that there was no need for someone to be that busy. People around us had to tell him to calm down. I'm not sure why he does this -- is it projecting his own need for independence from obligation onto me?
How old? I'm going to assume early 20's.....

He probably isn't sure of his feelings either. So, context of enneagram 8, talking to an enneagram 4, with the avatar you have. He probably sees you as an "innocent", or vulnerable perhaps.

A healthy 8 can be REALLY protective for someone we perceive as "innocent" or vulnerable. Protecting the ones we care for, helping them be safe from jerks, and saying and even trying to cause plenty of sleep and safety is certainly something an 8 would do for someone they care for. If an asshole were to hurt you, he'd fucking destroy the guy and then maybe feel guilty and confused about how good it felt.

to be fair, he may see you in the context of "little sister" and not have romantic feelings. He may lust a bit after you, and even deny it to himself.

The other thing is, we do NOT want to be vulnerable. So, protecting you from some other asshole is NOT being vulnerable. Neither is flirting, or rough housing, or casual sex with other women.

Admitting FEELINGS to a good friend is a VERY vulnerable thing to do. getting shot down by a very good friend, all the buddies finding out and having leverage, etc. is a frigging nightmare.

As a 4, you are probably better at sharing your feelings than the 8. Be forewarned; if you share your feelings, he WILL probably pull back hard, even displaying momentary anger or coldness. Disengage, and give him time to process it (days or a week or so) before letting him bring the convo back up. He probably will bring the convo back up, because we ARE direct once we figure it out.

Cool question.
 
#32 ·
Yo, how can we get this stickied?
 
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#35 ·
Couple things happened, so I guess I'll come back here for more advice about my ESTP 8w7 friend.

So my friend and I were pretty flirty, and while in the past he usually spent a lot of time talking about girls he thought were hot and how to get them, he seemed to talk about other girls less and seemed more eager to help other guys out (which I perceived as him not wanting to show interest in other girls in front of me, but I could have just been reading into it). He would also try to wrestle with me, but I never went through with it because I don't feel confident about my physical strength, and didn't want to seem weak.

One night he was going out to a bar with his best guy friends and he asked me to come with him (our mutual best guy friend was also going). He kept complimenting me on random talents I had, calling me a badass, etc. I jokingly said I'd wingman him, and he didn't seem to want me to do that, telling me to get some girls for his friend instead. We went to the bar and he got really really amped up, acting crazy and making us all laugh really hard, despite being somewhat embarrassed to be seen with him. I tried to give everyone in our group equal attention, though, and at one point one of his close friends (I think an INTP, actually) started chatting excitedly with me once I let my intellectual side show, thus taking up my attention. My ESTP friend kept staring at me, asking me what kind of guys I like, mentioning he likes white girls (which I am), etc. He was really amped up. He then started taking my hands and telling me he didn't know what to do sometimes. I kind of backed away because I was intimidated by his energy and didn't know what he was getting at, and told him to lay his head down on the table (this was all at the table we were at).

We went home and he started talking loudly about all the sex he had in high school. He then asked to pick me up and carry me back home, but the walk was too far and we were still walking with our mutual best guy friend, so he put me down eventually. He then started taking off his shirt, saying it was 'too hot out here' (even though it was raining), and he kept asking me to look at his chest. His INTP friend was like 'slothpop, are you instigating this?'. I jokingly said that I 'saw through his antics'. I basically just didn't show interest in his body, just tried to take care of him. He ended up too amped up to go to sleep, but I just went to bed.

The next day he was EXTREMELY low-key. And he's actually kind of been that way ever since. We (him, me, and our mutual best guy friend) all went out to the movies together and then dinner afterwards, and then we just sat on a bench outside and talked. My ESTP friend kept saying how thankful he was for us, but he seemed really aloof and tired and way more low-key than usual. He wasn't flirty and didn't show any more interest.

It's been a few more days, and he's kind of been the same low-key personality, and not really showing any interest (even when I try to flirt). I don't know if he's lost interest or if he's believing that I am not interested, and so he's backing off. I ask him if he's okay, and he says he's really happy, and just likes being calm and contemplative sometimes. What do you think is happening?
 
#36 ·
He likes you a lot, doesn't know how to say it. He was vulnerable and crazy and awkward and you saw all that, you rejected him.

now he's wounded.
 
#37 ·
@slothpop.

Why don't you recruit that friend of yours? (the one who knows the ESTP 8 likes you). Get him involved in this process. He'll enjoy matchmaking his best friends and you'll have an ally. He'll also feel like he's a part of the process and not feel like he's turning into the third wheel.

The ESTP 8's cooling it off so that he doesn't appear desperate. He considers himself friend zoned. This is a result of your mixed message behavior, so if you want different behavior from him in the future, your behavior needs to change.

You offered to be his wing again? What is this nonsense? You don't think you can land a guy who's jumping all over you? Please refer back to your behavior and self reflect on this. This shows an inferiority complex or the desire to let him go. This is exactly the opposite of what I suggested.

Your behavior needs to be consistent and yours is unpredictable. Be positive (open, warm, friendly) or worst case, neutral (tired, sleepy, busy, shy), but never negative (rejecting, putting him down in front of friends). An ESTP 8 will chase you to win you, like I said before. But that means, you have to be caught ;) That's how this game works. You have to be accessible emotionally and you have to reciprocate. Consistently.

Re: wrestling. He just want to be able to touch you and play around :) Don't worry about your lack of strength. Either he'll go easy on you or he'll let you win. If he offers again, say, "promise to go easy on me! I can't compete with your biceps!" Be flirty! Make him feel like a man ;)
 
#38 ·
Thanks, that was a good pep talk. I tend to run away from things like this. My enneagram says 4w5 but I'm actually a type 6 (I should update my profile).

As you suggested, I have become more consistent with my flirtation. I have been more touchy-feely and roughhouse with him fairly often. When we are both calm, I give him lots of hugs and let him know he is special to me. I feel that our chemistry is back.

One small obstacle is that he has a new hook up buddy now, but it won't last long (according to him). He claims he needs to figure himself out and what he wants. I've been supportive of him having a bit of fun with her, but I've also acknowledged with him that it won't last very long. I do worry that me being supportive of them hooking up is seen as lack of interest, but I am genuinely happy for him -- it doesn't bother me if he has having fun with another girl, as long as there are no emotions involved. And it always makes me happy when my close guy friends get some action. :)

I did have a mutual friend come up to me and tell me that the ESTP and I have amazing chemistry, and he told me that even though the ESTP talks a big game, he doesn't want to seem frivolous or that he doesn't care about a genuine connection. I talked to my other friend about it (not the one who knows he likes me, but the ISTJ who is our other best friend in the group). He said that the ESTP is not in a position to pursue me because I have talked about not wanting to date friends in the past, and so if he were to make a move, he'd see it as a risk to the friendship. He thinks that he is probably taking action in order to move on, but it is hard for him because what he is really looking for is a connection, and he's not going to find that by sleeping with random women.

So I think that I have to make it clear that I'm available to him to be pursued. It's a bit trickier right now since he has a booty call, and he is always loyal to the person he is seeing even if he doesn't think that it'll last long. I don't want to ruin anything. I also want to be supportive of him embracing his sexuality, but I don't want to seem as if I'm uninterested. Should I be flirty with him and then amp it up when he and the girl get bored? Or should I amp it up now so that he knows that he has the option to end it faster without any consequences?
 
#40 · (Edited)
Many months ago an E8 chased me down a flight of stairs to ask me out, said he hadn't asked a woman out in years, that he really liked me etc. So eventually we got together but he was going through some tough life stuff (he's sp-first and that part of his life is in shambles) and would just, disappear. For weeks. It repeated several times that we got together or he was happier and reached out to me, and then we made plans he would just not follow up, or respond to my attempts to figure out what was wrong.

Last time I called him out on it he said it was "his policy" as of a few years ago to not respond when moody, as to not hurt anyone.

Two months ago I had an abortion. He called after to say sorry he wasn't responsive while I was going through the miscarriage, but let's hang out the weekend after. Then he didn't follow up. Then he didn't respond to my call. A month after he left a message on my phone, saying he's sorry and the last month was horrible. I tried calling him four times, no response. Left messages saying he should let me know if he needs anything (b/c I was terrified that he was out on the streets or something - he's unemployed and been living off friends' couches) b/c I feel he would not ask even if he was deeply in trouble. Tried to be really non-pushy about it, just wanted to let him know i'm around.

anyway... argh :( i know this is shit time for this guy, i know he's in no position to have been trying to date me at all, etc, but i CAN'T GET OVER IT (and move on). felt a genuine connection. and i'm crazy hurt, and i'm mad at myself for being hurt, and i'm starting to get angry...

edit:

...and I can tell that i'm disintegrating, none of the abortion stuff bothered me at the time but now i feel like he "owes me". ugh. :(
 
#41 ·
Many months ago an E8 chased me down a flight of stairs to ask me out, s:(
I'm a pretty hardcore, uncaring bastard for the most part, but the stuff you shared is pretty fucking traumatic for many people. For him to make promises, and not keep them is really fucked up.

As for him, sounds like he is wrapped into his own head, and in a pretty selfish place. In My Opinion, based on what you describe, he needs to figure his shit out and decide to come back to living. He has disintegrated to a really fucked up 5, and the world goes by and he doesn't know it.
I've been there in my life. You can't do anything for him, except if you want be friendly and take care of yourself when he shows up, and make good boundaries, and understand he'll go away for a while again.

Hope this helps,
 
#43 ·
Well I'm an eight, dating a 1w9 SP/SX. Probably helps that we have the same instinct stacking.
But I've noticed no mention of any other 8s dating a one here in this thread... How come? And if any of you dated a one in the past,how did it go?
 
#44 ·
I have zero sexual attraction for 1's. Never dated one. Or another 8 for that matter.
I RARELY am attracted to 7's. One NOTABLE exception comes to mind however.
 
#49 · (Edited)
@Hellfire I understand what you mean with a softer type without a will. I am the same in this regard, because I do need someone I think won't buckle under pressure, but I do need someone who is more emotional and permeable than myself as well. I can't stand being around someone that's not a little feelsy, I think, because I need that to make me open up. I don't find it satisfying otherwise, but I also don't think being feelsy or more permeable means being weak. You can have strong feelings and a strong will as a result. At the same time I also want to feel that there's someone to take care of, nurture and protect. If they are as strong as I it would get boring very fast because I would feel useless in the relationship, I think.

Stackings could definitely play a huge role since I am sx so I focus a lot on my relationship.
 
#50 ·
, but I do need someone who is more emotional and permeable than myself as well. I can't stand being around someone that's not a little feelsy, I think, because I need that to make me open up. I don't find it satisfying otherwise, but I also don't think being feelsy or more permeable means being weak. You can have strong feelings and a strong will as a result. At the same time I also want to feel that there's someone to take care of, nurture and protect.

Stackings could definitely play a huge role since I am sx so I focus a lot on my relationship.
The stuff I left in his quote describes me. I like dating someone who has the feels. I like someone who can be VERY feminine in our relationship, and in the context of dating me, that involves the feels.
I've loved an ESTP 7 who showed me the feels.
I've loved an INTJ 5 who showed me the feels. 2's and 4's it is more obvious in public.

also, a counselor once told me I lean towards narcissistic a bit, and a bit of codependency balances "us" out.
 
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#54 ·
@Hellfire you can sparate a quote by doing it like this:

[q uote]text[/quote]

response

[q uote]text[/quote]

response 2

and so on.

I'd tend to show and tell. I'm the person you can call at five in the morning and I'll still be there, but I'm also the type to like being very affectionate in a far more showy fashion, like planning a getaway, or making something for the person. Of course I wouldn't do any of that unless I felt very emotional towards that person. I am a pretty intense person in a relationship, but one needs to get to that intensity first. Most people would never see it. I don't personally have an issue expressing said affection, if the person makes me want to be affectionate towards them, it's just for the most part I lack the desire, so it has to be a pretty exceptional person. Though I do have an affection related issue, and that issue would be in the receiving of affection. I can plan an interesting and exciting Valentine's day for instance, (And I'd put a lot more effort in than bunging someone into a fancy diner or some shit. That to me, speaks of laziness.) but god forbid anyone else do that for me. I'd get awkward and uncomfortable. Though my partner is also in the exact same boat (also sp/sx even though he is a 1w9). Giving wasn't the issue for either of us, it was allowing ourselves to receive. Before each other we tended to gravitate towards more, submissive and compliant people, emotional too, and we'd both have a tendency to be rather controlling there. What made it possible was that we both had nearly the exact same barriers to work past and so our tendencies to distrust were nullified by that, and the fact we both see each other as strong reliable people. I can catch anyone, but who can I trust to catch me? I'm heavier and fall harder than most. Same with him. We're both still slightly uncomfortable receiving affection but those barriers are eroding all the time.
Hm, that sounds like a very different kind of scenario, yeah, and difficult in a different way. In a way I suppose it could feel comforting to be in a less emotional environment since it's definitely simpler that way, but it also doesn't propel you to go outside your comfort zone nearly as much.

I agree with the whole dinner thing and stuff that you mention, though. That's definitely how I prefer doing it as well. I rather invite out for dinner, do the dishes, cook something nice in secret etc as a way to show that I care. I never thought of that as showing a strong sense of affection though, since showing affection to me also involves emotional expression and it's the thing I tend to shy away from.

ou've pretty much described my best friend, but she can manage push comes to shove. Unfortunately she's the only four I can stand, and from a relationship standpoint she's way too ....emo (not emotional as such, think emoey) for me. I'm too laid back for that. That, or the issues that most people face seem like nothing to me. I couldn't get stressed over exam results, for instance and those that do befuddle me. I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who'd had a relatively normal and easy life (lack of understanding of my circumstances on their part, and they wouldn't get the desired response out of me for their circumstances) and I can just about stand it with friends, though I'm more inclined to think that's an issue of mine rather than a failing of theirs.
Yeah, the part about a normal life is something I experience is becoming a hurdle as well, now that I'm working through my shit and I'm trying to reintegrate in society, for better and worse. I realize that the more I speak to people as I become less withdrawn which I always become when I get boggled down with some shit, I just kind of shut down and shut myself in over time, I just can't quite connect with people because they don't have my experiences or my particular outlook. It's not even enneagram-related but just a part of being human. I speak to a guy I think is a 2 at my job sometimes, we get along decently and all but it's difficult to cultivate depth since he's had a fairly simple life and the way I see it, he's not taking his job seriously enough. I've been through a lot of things and thought about a lot of things concerning life and society and well, he just hasn't, because he's never had to. Bad stuff that happens is kind of like bad news on TV, not because I'm trying to say he wouldn't downplay people's bad experiences would he run into someone in a genuinely sore spot (still a 2, lol), but he doesn't understand or relate to that experiential depth either, and I find this to be true with most people I run into.

My therapist asked me an interesting question I found quite pertinent and it was what kinds of commonality all my friends have had in common, and in general it's the experience that we've had tough lives growing up. Of course, how tough it was varies from an objective point of view, but a trauma is a trauma even if it means divorced family or having one's home destroyed by war. It's the sense of felt difficulty and that there was indeed difficulty and the more people I speak to, the more I realize most just haven't experienced life that way at all. In a way it's good I suppose, but it also makes it difficult to connect, as you note.

Even the coldest person opens up if they perceive to be trustworthy, it's what I've found. If they don't, then I'm not right for them. There's no specific time frame, but I know when I'm being let in and being kept out. Everyone needs someone, no matter how hard they try to pretend they don't, even though I'd say out of all the enneagram types, that's more our lesson to learn than the others. :)

That song is pretty interesting, but I guess for me it's not the case.
Ok, interesting thing to say that you think you're not the right person to make them open up. I actually don't care so much whether people open up or not as much as I care about to connect at a more personal level. That doesn't mean having to open up to me, though it can certainly involve it as well.

I wonder if you're attitude is reflective of being an Fe type, that's my impression anyway. Obviously everyone needs someone, but I judge it more whether I like or dislike people and whether our feelings toward each other in terms of how we value our relationship is shared or not. So a very different perspective, there.
 
#55 ·
I was reading the chapter on Eights in Helen Palmer’s Guide of the Enneagram -there is a whole section on their love relationships- and it reminded me of this thread and the story of @lauraernst, because H.P. talks about the dual disconcerting hot intensity/cold withdrawal, which is based on two apparently opposite needs:

When Eights (at least some of them) protect and care for a Special Other, they focus their attention on that so intensely -the other becoming almost like another part of themselves, it can become quite exhausting and they feel the need to withdraw and be alone time to time.

The other reason of wanting to be alone is because they subconsciously feel if they show their vulnerability and softer feelings, their SO will be disgusted and reject them, because they were attracted in the first place by the Eight’ strength and energy, not their soft side.
 
#56 ·
I was reading the chapter on Eights in Helen Palmer’s Guide of the Enneagram -there is a whole section on their love relationships- and it reminded me of this thread and the story of @lauraernst, because H.P. talks about the dual disconcerting hot intensity/cold withdrawal, which is based on two apparently opposite needs:

When Eights (at least some of them) protect and care for a Special Other, they focus their attention on that so intensely -the other becoming almost like another part of themselves, it can become quite exhausting and they feel the need to withdraw and be alone time to time.

The other reason of wanting to be alone is because they subconsciously feel if they show their vulnerability and softer feelings, their SO will be disgusted and reject them, because they were attracted in the first place by the Eight’ strength and energy, not their soft side.
Some of that, and more. In a good space, I am an 8, and sometimes I do just need time by myself. I do get energy from helping and loving someone else, but another type of energy I need is to remember what and who I am, and I retreat to a 5ish type person on occasion to reflect, and recharge, and just shut my brain and gut off.

In a bad space, with stress, I turn most bad emotions to anger. So, hurt, and sad, and wounded turn to anger, and anger fuels me, and brings me HUGE energy, but it causes me to make space by pushing EVERYONE away from me indiscriminately. In the middle of that, I hurt people. So, one answer is to just walk away, and go somewhere else, and give myself the time to process my emotions internally where I can work through stuff without hurting someone.

FWIW, I'm not very worried about being rejected. I'm more worried about being hurt, or controlled, possibly (embarrassed?????) which leads to vulnerable.

On further thought, I am worried about being rejected. But I deny it deeply.

Wow.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Thank you for sharing your deeper feelings, @drmiller100. I receive it as a valuable gift.
Agreed, that was an excellent post. You really dug deep down into the recesses of your inner being and touched the fundamental essence of your eightish-ness.

Interestingly enough, I have not seen or read about any relationship reference with an enneagram type 7. I would like to hear your thoughts and experiences on this match.
 
#60 ·
@Entropic Actually it kind of does. We'd have broken up by now if we weren't willing to work on ourselves and take criticism. I've found I've often had to take the first steps and be vulnerable before he was willing to do the same, though he is 31 and I put that down to being older and more set in his patterns.
My point was more that I express affection in a real world and practical way, and so does he. :) There's of course basic courtesy and then there's going out of your way for a person. I see too many people my age jumping into that "Iloveusomuchbbetotesnd5evah" crap within a week, and a result because I see a lot of people not taking words like "I love you" seriously enough, and that makes me wary.
We're quite emotional at this stage actually, and willing to be vulnerable with each other. But it's not lopsided by any means, and we both have to push ourselves to say things like "I feel bad because xyz", things that would probably come easier than most.
Interestingly that four friend of mine turned out to be a backstabber, she and three of the other housemates turned up outside my door to scream at me when I refused to lie on a census form to cover up someone's social welfare fraud. Not because I'm honourable or whatever but I don't fancy anyone being fined 44,440 for falsifying information, and that includes myself.
A lot of my friends when I was teen came from troubled backgrounds as well, the problem was a lot of them weren't willing to try, and settled for pregnancy, addiction, or whatever. Interestingly my partner also comes from that. A troubled background helps, but if a person isn't willing to grow then that's a problem isn't it? Though I wouldn't say all traumas are a felt sense of difficulty. It may be at first, but often I've found, those with the lesser traumas tend to think their experience is the same yours because "we're all fucked here". I've had people who've been bullied sit there comparing themselves to me, and I get very irritated by that kind of thing, sure I've been bullied and I know it ain't the same. I mean I can sure as hell admit when I don't understand someone's circumstances, but I'm willing to admit, try and listen, and a lot of people who've gone through the minor things like just being bullied can't really do the same. Though I suppose it comes down to the question of, okay there was this trauma, are you willing to grow?
I'd argue though that in a healthy relationship (purely talking intimate relationships) you'd need to be open with one another. Otherwise shit gets bottled up.
 
#61 ·
I agree with you that I think people throw around empty terms too much nowadays. I think even the meaning of relationships is watered down a lot, like people want relationships without the commitment involved in actually making them happen and they think any flimsy feeling means that you are gonna stay forever, but yet they aren't willing to put in the work to make it happen. And sure, not everyone is for everyone, I expect and respect that, but I think what makes a relationship a relationship is the work you put into it. Love is a piece of work, not just those feelings in your heart. Those feelings don't amount to much if you aren't willing to put them in practice and do the dirty work required to demonstrate what they really mean to you. A lot of people say they love someone else, but they aren't willing to show that they do in their actions. I abhor that. If you really love someone, you are willing to go to great lengths in order to make something work and improve on yourself and thus also, improve your relationship. A relationship isn't defined by how it's like when it goes well, but a relationship is defined by how you manage it when it goes bad.

Yeah, that seems pretty shitty to me and a bad idea. She should have considered the real risk involved, there.

I agree about your comments on trauma. I can understand people that have experienced less trauma than I and I also understand people that may have experienced worse traumas than I in the sense that I respect that difference, but I find that people that lived sheltered lives and experienced a minor trauma often experience it as a huge thing like you mention about bullying. I was bullied too, it could definitely have been worse and I totally understand how it feels bad to be bullied and what it does to you, but like you say, it's irksome when someone that clearly has a less severe experience tries to claim that their experience is the same as yours when it experientially isn't. It may feel that way, but feelings don't dictate what things are.

As for intimate relationships, yeah, I agree. I may not always understand, but I'll try to listen in the very least, and respect the difference. Like I wrote, it's about putting in the hard work to make it work out. It may slow because working on yourself is difficult, but I think intent matters a lot, there, especially if there is progress over time. I don't respect someone that says they have intent but don't put in any work at all and there is no progress. Then it's just empty words.
 
#62 ·
Hello! I'm a 6w5 dating a 8w9 for about two months now. I've never dated an 8 before, but I can tell this is what I want. The confidence and strength this man projects in any situation is intensely sexy to me. Things have been great thus far, except that I tend to be more emotional and he does not. We both don't let people into our inner group easily, but I'm also trying to be as open and inviting as possible while he runs hot and cold. For example, sometimes we'll text for 2 days straight and then he won't talk to me for a few days. He told me he missed me at a party, and later that night drunkenly told me how scared he was at screwing this up, then didn't see me for two weeks. We just spent a wonderful weekend together, and when I told HIM I would miss him (circumstances won't let us see eachother for at least 2 weeks), he went "I know," kissed me, and practically turned on his heel to walk to his car.
I'm trying to understand... is this typical of 8s? How can I properly convey to him that I don't like this hot and cold, without scaring him away? I'm afraid if I tell him that it hurts and confuses me when he does stuff like this he'll take that as me trying to take control from him. But, 8s also respect when you speak your mind and challenge a little right? Ugh!
 
#63 ·
He told me he missed me at a party, and later that night drunkenly told me how scared he was at screwing this up, then didn't see me for two weeks. We just spent a wonderful weekend together, and when I told HIM I would miss him (circumstances won't let us see eachother for at least 2 weeks), he went "I know," kissed me, and practically turned on his heel to walk to his car.
Good news, bad news. Good news is he likes you. a LOT. Bad news, is he likes you, a LOT.

8's are really shitty at being vulnerable. we don't like it, it makes us uncomfortable, and we protect ourselves. So, he gets drunk, says something absolutely true and is vulnerable, and then gets scared and avoids you for two weeks.

Nothing you did. to be fair to you, not talking for 2 weeks is not acceptable either. He can either figure out you are not going to hurt him when he IS vulnerable, or he's not ready to be close to someone.

If you present it as it leaves you confused when he goes away for time without saying anythign, that seems reasonable to me. If you share your feelings with him, he WILL pull back and process it. But two weeks is not reasonable either. A day or three? maybe, yup.

If you say "you must call me every day" I'd be out of there.

It takes us a while to trust someone. It isn't you, it is the 8.
 
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#64 ·
Oh no, I don't chase him hard at all, worst I do is send him gifs or pictures that are funny if we haven't spoken for a few days. I don't get on his case for not talking to me, that wouldn't be fair because I know that's just how he is. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt me however and I want to figure out where we're going eventually. There is no easy way for me to say "hey I really don't like it when you profess something short of love and how your mom wants to meet me (he's said that) then ghost for a week or so..." I don't want to change a thing about him, I just want to understand him better. Good to know it's not me, I guess I just gotta keep playing it cool.
 
#65 ·
"hey I really don't like it when you
your mom wants to meet me (he's said that) then ghost for a week or so..."
l.
say that. that's fair. if he bails, he wasn't ready for someone yet. he sounds young. He'll grow up.
 
#66 ·
Wrong thread.
 
#68 ·
versailles posted the wrong thing in the wrong thread, and you can't delete a post - only edit the content.

redtide, your post is appopriate
 
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