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Discussion Starter #1
My friends tell me that my standards for women are too high. Girls seem to be throwing themselves at me lately, but I don't find any of them attractive. A few of them have been cute, but these girls are some of the dumbest I've ever met (think Jersey Shore broads without the accents) . The others aren't physically attractive, but they reek of desperation so badly, it sickens me.

This brings up a good question: At what point do standards become too unreasonable?

All I'm looking for is a cute, quiet, smart girl with some integrity. That's it. Apparently, that's too much to ask for. I don't find one night stands appealing, either, and apparently everyone I know thinks I'm either a closeted homosexual or miswired in the brain because of it. My two best friends, INTP and ENTP, find it baffling that I don't hook up with every random skank that shows the slightest interest in me, because it's what "normal guys do." They're worried that I'm never going to find someone that will meet my standards, which is ironic because my ENTP buddy has higher standards for a girlfriend than I do, and has basically found the love of his life a few months ago.

I don't have a bulleted list of 300 points for my potential mate, like some do, but I also don't want to settle. Every marriage I have seen in my life has either ended in divorce, or they stay married but spend their days crafting secret evil plans to piss the other off for the rest of their lives.

It's not in us ISTJs to lower our standards for any reason. We'd rather live without something that doesn't meet our expectations than with it, but at what point does this become unhealthy and unreasonable?
 

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Stick your weewee in them, you never know what you'll learn from the "dumb" people.
In other words you're pre-judging people.

Stop it.
 

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I''l put it this way, you're incomplete as a person whether you know it or not.

One of those "dumb" girls may change you in ways that make you immensely happy, but you will never know it until you sit back, shut up, and listen with an open mind.

just go with the flow.
And stop thinking about marriage, if you have even seen the cooter then a bazillion miles from marriage.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Stick your weewee in them, you never know what you'll learn from the "dumb" people.
In other words you're pre-judging people.

Stop it.
I judge people. It's what I do. I can't just turn it off.

Every one night stand I've had in the past has been unsatisfying and unfulfilling, and makes my loneliness worse. They are basically a waste of time in my eyes.
 

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I judge people. It's what I do. I can't just turn it off.

Every one night stand I've had in the past has been unsatisfying and unfulfilling, and makes my loneliness worse. They are basically a waste of time in my eyes.
You know it's not either, one night stand or fantastic marriage partner.

It's a whole gamut in between.

The path to growing as a person is to things that make us uncomfortable.
Face your fears, learn to be more shallow. Stop thinking about the past it does not portend the future.

Judge, then conscientiously dismiss the judgement.
It's your choice you're choosing your own freedom.
That choice to do what your mind is screaming don't do it your pathway to freedom and growth.

So grow, or stagnate your choice.

That old adage, "you won't get it, till you get it" is %100 true.
 

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I don't agree with ENTtrePenuer's advice. I have an ESTP buddy and I know ENTPs and ESTPs are different, but I find I absolutely cannot go to him for advice because it's always terrible and too.... something. I'm not sure of what word to use to describe it.

As for your situation I believe you're a good guy (at least you come across that way to me). And you're in your 20's yes? You're looking for someone around your age who you find both attractive and intelligent and that you click with? That does not sound like your standards are too high unless there's something physically "wrong" with you.

I'm in the same boat as you in this, except the part about girls throwing themselves at me. I'm never around any. My ESTP buddy tells me my standards are too high as well.

The only thing I would maybe try that has been (kind of) suggested by ENTrePeneuer would be to take these girls that you find stupid for a test drive. You wouldn't have to date them but it may lead you to possibly find a friend and eventually hook up with one of her friends? The larger your social circle, the more chance you have to meet a wimmin you want.

Good luck to ya.
 

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So what you're doing isn't working for you, but you advise another person to continue in the same failing path.

Nice.
 

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So what you're doing isn't working for you, but you advise another person to continue in the same failing path.

Nice.
I did not advise him to do the same. Maybe you didn't understand my post or I didn't type it well enough. What I was trying to say was this:

I wouldn't personally do what ENTrePeneuer recommends but I don't particularly have an alternative to recommend. Good luck in whatever you decide.

You see, ISTJs and ENTPs don't work the same. It doesn't mean either way is wrong, but I don't like what you advised. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the ENTP perspective on this situation would be

"If a girl wants you to do her, do her. If after doing her for a while you decide you don't like her, just drop the ho and move on. There's lots of women out there stop being shy."

Am I right/wrong?
 

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*facepalm*

so what you're saying is you have no clue and really don't anything to offer except to disagree with me?

I know it sounds harsh but it's an accurate rewording.

All you're doing is keeping her interest until you get to know her rather than getting to know her and then determining if the sex is good.

Besides, you will learn alot in the process.

Just do it, no babies will be harmed in the process.
 

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*facepalm*

so what you're saying is you have no clue and really don't anything to offer except to disagree with me?
Yes. How is disagreeing with your advice different from say disagreeing with someone's advice to paint my house bright pink when I ask them for advice on what color I should paint my house?

Just because I don't have the answer doesn't mean I am not able to disagree your advice. He can follow it if he wants. Would I personally? No.
 

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Yes. How is disagreeing with your advice different from say disagreeing with someone's advice to paint my house bright pink when I ask them for advice on what color I should paint my house?
That's a false analogy.
A better analogy is if he asked for advice on how to cook muffins.
His muffins always taste like ass
If your muffins also taste like ass you're disqualified from giving him a recipe!
You may not like how I make my muffins, but maybe him trying my way will teach him enough to get muffins that taste a little bit less like ass.


Just because I don't have the answer doesn't mean I am not able to disagree your advice. He can follow it if he wants. Would I personally? No.
Of course you won't and that's fine, keep doing what doesn't work I'm sure it'll magically start working eventually.
 

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Why are you getting so hostile? Are you incapable of being less abrasive? It's like you don't possess the skill to explain something without coming off as a tool.
 

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I apologize.
 

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My friends tell me that my standards for women are too high. Girls seem to be throwing themselves at me lately, but I don't find any of them attractive. A few of them have been cute, but these girls are some of the dumbest I've ever met (think Jersey Shore broads without the accents) . The others aren't physically attractive, but they reek of desperation so badly, it sickens me.

This brings up a good question: At what point do standards become too unreasonable?

All I'm looking for is a cute, quiet, smart girl with some integrity. That's it. Apparently, that's too much to ask for. I don't find one night stands appealing, either, and apparently everyone I know thinks I'm either a closeted homosexual or miswired in the brain because of it. My two best friends, INTP and ENTP, find it baffling that I don't hook up with every random skank that shows the slightest interest in me, because it's what "normal guys do." They're worried that I'm never going to find someone that will meet my standards, which is ironic because my ENTP buddy has higher standards for a girlfriend than I do, and has basically found the love of his life a few months ago.

I don't have a bulleted list of 300 points for my potential mate, like some do, but I also don't want to settle. Every marriage I have seen in my life has either ended in divorce, or they stay married but spend their days crafting secret evil plans to piss the other off for the rest of their lives.

It's not in us ISTJs to lower our standards for any reason. We'd rather live without something that doesn't meet our expectations than with it, but at what point does this become unhealthy and unreasonable?
I was reading your post and agreeing with what you said, but with me there is something different that I couldn't place my finger on. Then it hit me. While I would rather live without something that doesn't meet my expectations than with it, I learned long ago to have no expectations of people. Each person has their own viewpoint on life, their own problems and baggage and I've just come to expect the worst out of most people. When you always expect the worst of people it's pleasantly surprising when they're not as bad as you originally expected.

So when it comes to people you need to learn to compromise and accept that they probably won't meet your standards. Imagine if you're the other person in the relationship, you can be sure that they're lowering their "perfect" expectations (if you can't you're pretty narcissistic), you've just got to prioritize your standards.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I''l put it this way, you're incomplete as a person whether you know it or not.

One of those "dumb" girls may change you in ways that make you immensely happy, but you will never know it until you sit back, shut up, and listen with an open mind.

just go with the flow.
And stop thinking about marriage, if you have even seen the cooter then a bazillion miles from marriage.
Everyone is incomplete as a person, and I'm no different. That's why I'm here, to better understand myself and others, and to improve as a person.

I still have a question, though. You will still date and/or sleep with someone that you know right away isn't your type, just for the chance that it will help change you as a person? Isn't that a little bit unhealthy itself?


I don't agree with ENTtrePenuer's advice. I have an ESTP buddy and I know ENTPs and ESTPs are different, but I find I absolutely cannot go to him for advice because it's always terrible and too.... something. I'm not sure of what word to use to describe it.

As for your situation I believe you're a good guy (at least you come across that way to me). And you're in your 20's yes? You're looking for someone around your age who you find both attractive and intelligent and that you click with? That does not sound like your standards are too high unless there's something physically "wrong" with you.

I'm in the same boat as you in this, except the part about girls throwing themselves at me. I'm never around any. My ESTP buddy tells me my standards are too high as well.

The only thing I would maybe try that has been (kind of) suggested by ENTrePeneuer would be to take these girls that you find stupid for a test drive. You wouldn't have to date them but it may lead you to possibly find a friend and eventually hook up with one of her friends? The larger your social circle, the more chance you have to meet a wimmin you want.

Good luck to ya.
I think a lot of my problem might stem from the fact that I only meet girls, now, at house parties and at the bar. I only seem to be running into party girls and waitresses. The girls I'm into are at home most of the time or at work on the weekends, like me.

I have taken a few for a "test drive" and it sickens me to quash all feelings of annoyance and disgust just for a sexual release.
 

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Everyone is incomplete as a person, and I'm no different. That's why I'm here, to better understand myself and others, and to improve as a person.
Here's a tip, venture into the other forums.
Particularly of the types that you find odd, just lurk if you like.
You will learn alot more about yourself than you may think.

I still have a question, though. You will still date and/or sleep with someone that you know right away isn't your type, just for the chance that it will help change you as a person? Isn't that a little bit unhealthy itself?
Actually no.
It's unhealthy to just stick to what you know, that's a way of dealing with anxiety that never actually deals with it. Maybe you can just think of it as a sport, becoming good at sex so when you do find the right one she wouldn't dare leave you.

Like in anything, sex romance, etc. practice makes perfect.
You may even fall for some nutjob exfp and have to get in touch with your romantic side in order to keep her from running off in one of her ooh-shiny moments.


I think a lot of my problem might stem from the fact that I only meet girls, now, at house parties and at the bar. I only seem to be running into party girls and waitresses. The girls I'm into are at home most of the time or at work on the weekends, like me.

I have taken a few for a "test drive" and it sickens me to quash all feelings of annoyance and disgust just for a sexual release.
Don't be fooled, most of these party girls would be happy to find someone and something about you drew them to you, just because you don't understand it does not mean you should ignore it.
In fact that may be the only way they know of getting and keeping your attention, the only way you will know is to know.
You will learn ALOT, and you will know EXACTLY what you want as opposed to what you don't want.
Hang in there, you guys are famous being pig-headed, just choose to be a pig-headed manwhore. Just take this one on faith you will be rewarded.
Pain is apart of life, the more pain you feel the more you will grow.
 

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That's honestly something you need to reevaluate yourself. Who decides what are ''higher standards'' when it comes to relationships anyway?

Don't settle. What's the point of settling for someone if on an inside level, you feel dissatisfied about lowering your standards?

It is about your life and your preferences, and how you're going to be honest about them.
 

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Here's the thing: being in a good relationship is blessing, but it is also important to be self determining.

Why lower your standards and lie to yourself in order to fulfill some expectation of a relationship when that expectation doesn't fit what you really want?

I say, just ditch any potential peer pressure and just take enough time to figure out what you really want in your love life, how you're going to get it. Even if it seems too idealistic or worrying to others, at the end of the day, it's still your life.
 

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I knew someone once (ESFJ) who had really impossible standards. She once dumped a guy for leaving a single hair in her shower after using it. Other times, she has dumped people for the most insignificant little quirks and physical flaws.

There are two main lessons a person can learn from watching Seinfeld. The first is that people complicate their relationships by lying to get out of trouble, and would avoid a lot of drama by being open with each other. The other, which I think might be relevant here, is that a person who has a million little expectations about how someone sounds when she laughs, how wide her head is, how she dresses, etc, is likely to end up lonely for a long time, especially if he is overlooking his own quirks, which might be equally irritating to a picky woman.

In the case of my friend, I'm pretty sure her standards were just her way of dealing with her fear of intimacy. I think she was looking for flaws to use as excuses for leaving whenever she started to feel emotionally vulnerable. Consider your reasons for being picky.

I know that a lot of it is probably based on the fear of having things go terribly wrong later if you aren't selective enough. The key to dealing with it is to make a list of what qualities are absolutely necessary in order for compatibility to be possible. Know your dealbreakers, then throw the rest away.

For instance, If I were a guy looking for a wife, and my list started like this:
blonde,
compassionate,
good cook

I might look at that list and think to myself, "Well, if she weren't blonde, would we still be happy with each other in fifty years?"
I might respond by telling myself, "She's probably going to be grey eventually anyhow, and if it really matters, she can dye it." then I would cross it off of my list.

Then I would move to the next item and say, "If she weren't compassionate, would we still be happy together in fifty years?"
I would probably respond that it would be a disaster for her to lack that quality, so I would keep it on the list.

I'd ask myself, "If she isn't a good cook, will we still be happy together in fifty years?"
My response would depend on how important it was to me. If I planned for her to be doing all of the cooking, fifty years of eating bad food might be an issue for me, or I might be able to find ways to adapt and compromise.




So, yeah, that's how I've narrowed my own list down, starting from a very long list of things that I thought were very important.
Personally, I don't have any physical requirements at all, nor do I care much about anything materialistic other than being allowed to keep my own space messy, and most of mine have to do with shared values that would make the hypothetical husband less likely to harm or reject me.

I hope this advice is useful.
 

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I think it's unreasonable when you set it too unrealistically. This can vary for what one would say is realistic. I don't see perfectly ideal as realistic, although I have set expectations too high for more than just relationships (even though it is not high priority for me right now).
 
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