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Discussion Starter #1
OK, so this is partially a personal rant, and partially a wake up call for people to snap the hell out of their sheeple thinking, stop being a program in the Matrix, and start thinking outside of the box for themselves.

I frequently have this issue where people assume that I am attention seeking or something when I talk about my feelings openly (though I really only do this online). Why? Why is it that when I don't put on a fake mask like everyone else, when I don't cut off my tongue and pretend like the majority does, I'm the one labelled and judged? I am well aware that people probably feel the same ways as me deep down, and are either too afraid to say it or too afraid to admit it to themselves. So I have the guts to be honest, authentic, and analyze my shit openly. And? I have the guts to lay my shit out in the open as a tool for educating others who lack awareness. And? So I can say, "I feel like shit today," and expect for people to just move on because to me it's just a simple and normal fact, no big deal...they are the ones who treat it like it's more while I see it very nonchalantly as just part of everyday life, yet I'm the one they label.

Why is my honesty, openness, and authenticity misunderstood and judged? Why do people automatically assume the worst about others that way? Seriously, just because I'm able to say "I'm having some issues with bipolar depression today, and this is what my experiences with it are like" doesn't mean I want attention, nor that I feel sorry for myself, nor that I am even comfortable with anyone being supportive...because I'm not and if they start being supportive I get extremely uncomfortable and shut down, that's not what I'm looking for. I approach the emotional realm from a very detached and analytical perspective, dissecting and trying to understand it, or laying it out there for others to gain some insight and understanding for themselves. Instead of doing that, they misunderstand my motives and judge me as attention seeking. Attention seeking for what? Shit that I know most people probably relate to themselves deep down? Shit that's part of reality and everyday life? An extremely common disorder that many others have worse than me? Lol.

Yet...for some reason...despite the social consequences...I can't help but to be open, authentic, genuine, and honest...wearing a mask is exhausting and I don't want to join the army of sheeple. It's basically either being authentic or completely isolating. I'm not going to chop off my tongue and silence my voice to accomodate society...so the only option is to either continue to uselessly get angry with the fucking morons, or attempt to open society's minds and get them to see that there are more reasons than just those negative ones that a person is open.
 

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Yeah but you can't teach them that. They react to you. It's not a "thinking" thing they do when they label and judge you.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah but you can't teach them that. They react to you. It's not a "thinking" thing they do when they label and judge you.
It's the vast majority presuming and having linear thinking rather than examining possible alternatives and going over those in search of accuracy.
 

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It's the vast majority presuming and having linear thinking rather than examining possible alternatives and going over those in search of accuracy.
I think you're giving them too much credit. I don't think they're thinking at all.
 

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People are empathizing with your pain and want to offer you support since that's what they would want in your situation. If you don't want the attention, add this to the end of your post with something like 'I'm not looking for sympathy or empathy so please don't offer any. The expression of my feelings is cathartic'.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
People are empathizing with your pain and want to offer you support since that's what they would want in your situation. If you don't want the attention, add this to the end of your post with something like 'I'm not looking for sympathy or empathy so please don't offer any. The expression of my feelings is cathartic'.
They aren't empathizing, they are avoiding me because of it or even outright accusing me of having negative motives.
 

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Authentic people are often different [from what I understand] which brings attention to them, whether wanted or not, and maybe the people youre talking about just assume its wanted.
Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont.

but I never really have that problem. Im authentic, but not in a way people would be envious of.
 

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Ill just leave my piece here too - even though i dont really need to. Your authenticity may be perceived as attention seeking by some because some people use that kind of method to act dramatic to get attention.

I know you well to understand your motives are nothing of the sort. What you are dealing with is just people being biased against your behavior - because they are used to some people who are really misusing or faking their authenticity. And when some bad behavior becomes a trend online - prepare for stereotypes. IRL im sure you manage to avoid that kind of attention but here.. Just be who you wanna be. Maybe be more open to listening to others so they will be satisfied for being noticed if you care about that. Otherwise what they think shouldnt matter to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I think most ppl don't have the capacity to face their own demons let alone anyone else. It takes a certain type of strength to introspect so deeply and face it all.
People say this but it's something I have never understood. In my mind I don't struggle with it at all, and part of the reason for that is because I'm aware that not seeing something is not the same as it not being there. The actions taken via those inner demons have consequences, and those consequences impact a person's everyday life. Thus, not seeing is scary to me rather than seeing, as living with those consequences instead of gaining control over them is a lot more difficult and requires more endurance. You just keep on suffering through the consequences of your own actions. To take responsibility and change it is to take a greater level of control over your life, and to more easily prevent yourself from hurting those you care for.

Unfortunately though, you're probably right about the majority not seeing things this way.
 

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Because people have their own issues that they cant see past enough to have empathy for others. Dont stop being open, its a gift. Its those who mock you for it who will remain ignorant and blind their entire lives.

Theres that old quote.

“To Avoid Criticism, Say Nothing, Do Nothing, Be Nothing”

And I definitely think it applies here.
 

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@Hexcoder Did I start this thread under your name or what?
 

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Why do you care so much how people perceive you? You know your worth. If people think you're a bad person, that's their loss. I'm sure there are plenty of people who like you and find you interesting and even appreciate your strength and honesty. Every time you feel down and underappreciated, just think about them. People are rude and harsh to each other. It's just a daily occurrence. To change that, you'd have to change human nature.

People's opinions are clouded by their own biases. And some of them outright project their insecurities onto others. It's stupid, and it's not worth worrying over. Fuck everyone who thinks lowly of you. They're not even worth a glance from your direction. Why? Because they haven't taken the time to get to know you or understand what you have to say - and it's unlikely that they ever will.

You seem like a chill person, OP. I'd hang out with you.
 

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I think, at least in my instance, there's a sadness that you can't share what you've discovered with others. I used to be VERY repressed. Very, very, very. And extremely judgmental and intolerant of others, when I was in my teens. I was SO ABOVE my peer group, it wasn't even funny. And they knew I felt that way, too.

Then I went thru a terrible break-up at 19, kind of lost it, but ended up finding myself. I treasure that time in my life, actually.

My ex said to me, in an accusatory tone, "You used to talk so much trash about these girls, and now you party with them every night!"

And I said, quietly, "Yeah. I was wrong about them. They're very interesting people. I like being around them."

He was definitely surprised by that. He said, "Good answer." (And he's an ISFP, so he surely wouldn't have said "good answer" unless he meant it!)

Point being......I had to relax enough to be able to enjoy the behavior and personalities of people my value system and comfort zone were rejecting. But when I did, the world opened up to me! I became a much happier person. I had more energy.

I would like very much to see more of that on the INFJ forum. So many depressed, tired people there! But I don't think it has to be that way. I think it's just repression of the ESTP shadow because INFJs are often so suspicious of worldly enjoyment.

I'm not trying to be a gadfly, but a jester. Jesters were very important back in the day, and still are. The world needs more jesters.

Anyway, thanks @Hexcoder, for the thread and the opportunity to articulate this again, in case anyone missed it.
 

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OK, so this is partially a personal rant, and partially a wake up call for people to snap the hell out of their sheeple thinking, stop being a program in the Matrix, and start thinking outside of the box for themselves.
That is what YOU want. What if they like the Matrix, and they like it authentically? I am playing Devil's advocate here.

I frequently have this issue where people assume that I am attention seeking or something when I talk about my feelings openly (though I really only do this online). Why? Why is it that when I don't put on a fake mask like everyone else, when I don't cut off my tongue and pretend like the majority does, I'm the one labelled and judged?
Because, authenticity is an expression of desire. All desire stems from wallowing in worthlessness. The need for authenticity, Enneatype 4, is a need to be admired, be worthy, by being true to oneself. Your pride in 'not' being one of the Matrix sheeple is overstated, making this assessment easy and obvious.

You are labelled and judged appropriately. And ... you are labeling and judging them appropriately. Where does that leave us all?

I am well aware that people probably feel the same ways as me deep down, and are either too afraid to say it or too afraid to admit it to themselves. So I have the guts to be honest, authentic, and analyze my shit openly. And? I have the guts to lay my shit out in the open as a tool for educating others who lack awareness. And? So I can say, "I feel like shit today," and expect for people to just move on because to me it's just a simple and normal fact, no big deal...they are the ones who treat it like it's more while I see it very nonchalantly as just part of everyday life, yet I'm the one they label.
Yes, Enneatype 4 is anger infused desire. The desire to BE authentic. But desire is the ruling emotion, wallowing in defectiveness or assertion of authenticity, as opposed to denying that trance and coming into flow with being.

Notice your italicized 'they' above. You are taking this personally. And I agree, it is all personal. But they are doing their thing authentically and you are doing your thing authentically. Many of them are authentically cattle, sheeple. So wherein is your complaint? And note this bizarre thing, this juxtaposition, if they change then you should change also. You are not isolated in your correctness.

This means ... you may have a value or virtue to add to their lives. But they have a value or virtue to add to yours. I am not saying that some presentations of virtues are not BETTER than others. They are.

Again, you are labelled appropriately (in that sense). Accept it. Do not fight it. It's true. You are a sensitive attention seeker. So what?

Why is my honesty, openness, and authenticity misunderstood and judged? Why do people automatically assume the worst about others that way? Seriously, just because I'm able to say "I'm having some issues with bipolar depression today, and this is what my experiences with it are like" doesn't mean I want attention, nor that I feel sorry for myself, nor that I am even comfortable with anyone being supportive...because I'm not and if they start being supportive I get extremely uncomfortable and shut down, that's not what I'm looking for.
Your inner experience of yourself IS NOT their experience of you. Their takeaway IS what they say it is. If you have special needs, as in you are hurt right now or need to speak up, they are forced to process that. It comes off as attention seeking, and it actually IS attention seeking. If you speak ever for any reason, if you walk into a room, if you express emotion in any way, and the more that you express emotion, ... the more and more you ARE seeking attention. Accept the truth. Own it. Stop denying it to yourself.

Authenticity is only 1 virtue and it can be and usually is over expressed which is immoral. Bringing your inner world into the external world and inflicting it upon others is an attack of a kind. I have no problem with that attack. Attack is acceptable. It's normal. But denying that it is an attack is not reasonable. It is an attack. You afflict others with your presence. You afflict others with your emotional expressions. Own it.

I approach the emotional realm from a very detached and analytical perspective, dissecting and trying to understand it, or laying it out there for others to gain some insight and understanding for themselves. Instead of doing that, they misunderstand my motives and judge me as attention seeking. Attention seeking for what? Shit that I know most people probably relate to themselves deep down? Shit that's part of reality and everyday life? An extremely common disorder that many others have worse than me? Lol.
Other people ARE NOT like you exactly. They are NOT prone to your level of emotive reasoning and expression. You will easily burn them out on your level of expression. You wallow in emotions by choice. They, most of them, do not. Many of them do not care to put such effort into understanding their own emotions. Granted, each virtue is worth maturing in every person, but frankly, that is not going to happen. We are lucky indeed if any given person handles 3 of the nine virtues mentioned in the Enneagram. That is to say they work on maturing those virtues within themselves.

Further, maturing a virtue is not good if you over express it past the other virtues you have. That is what you are doing. You are vastly over expressing Authenticity. One of the core tenets of the Enneagram is that your strength IS your weakness. You are demonstrating that quite well.

Yet...for some reason...despite the social consequences...I can't help but to be open, authentic, genuine, and honest...wearing a mask is exhausting and I don't want to join the army of sheeple. It's basically either being authentic or completely isolating. I'm not going to chop off my tongue and silence my voice to accomodate society...so the only option is to either continue to uselessly get angry with the fucking morons, or attempt to open society's minds and get them to see that there are more reasons than just those negative ones that a person is open.
Change the one person you can, yourself. You are not in charge of them. You can influence them, and you should try if your aims are moral, but, this suffering you experience is because of your own issues, not as much theirs.
 
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