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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone!

Recently, I stumbled upon a video made by the popular DaveSuperPowers on YouTube. In this video, he says to avoid shadow functions.



Does anyone else see that avoiding your shadow functions is a problem besides me? It doesn't seem right to avoid your shadow functions. I actually feel like he's saying to not develop yourself. In Jungian psychology, I think that the "shadow" aspect of yourself is not necessarily bad or evil, it's just things you neglect, including your shadow functions. The more things you neglect, the more narrow of a person you become. I would rather be comfortable with my shadow functions than avoid them.
 

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Heretic
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Hi everyone!

Recently, I stumbled upon a video made by the popular DaveSuperPowers on YouTube. In this video, he says to avoid shadow functions.



Does anyone else see that avoiding your shadow functions is a problem besides me? It doesn't seem right to avoid your shadow functions. I actually feel like he's saying to not develop yourself. In Jungian psychology, I think that the "shadow" aspect of yourself is not necessarily bad or evil, it's just things you neglect, including your shadow functions. The more things you neglect, the more narrow of a person you become. I would rather be comfortable with my shadow functions than avoid them.
I agree with dave!
The more I understand and use my main functions the better I operate in my life.
Now having a rudimentary understanding of the shadow and mitigating
some of it's ill effects, could be a good idea...
IF you have balanced your four main functions first!

Many of the people running around talking about shadow functions are unbalanced.
And plan to derail themself even further with trying to develop their shadow.

It can be compared to dying of thirst in the desert
and deciding that right now is a good time to work on your sandcastle building skills. XD

Now if you are on vacation on a nice beach,
that may be a fruitful and enlightening experience,
no matter how much you suck at sandcastles.

If you have the energy to waste.
Go ahead jump right into your shadow.
If you are struggling to get by.
Conserve your energy! ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #3
I guess you could say that, but I view it a little more differently. So, for example, my shadow functions (Ne, Fi, Te, and Si) are what I would avoid most because I'm not comfortable with them. But wouldn't that be like saying I'm not comfortable with anyone else that uses Ne, Fi, Te, and Si?
 

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I guess you could say that, but I view it a little more differently. So, for example, my shadow functions (Ne, Fi, Te, and Si) are what I would avoid most because I'm not comfortable with them. But wouldn't that be like saying I'm not comfortable with anyone else that uses Ne, Fi, Te, and Si?
No, because some who naturally uses Ne, Fi, Te and Si is better at using them than someone who has them as shadow functions. For instance, when I use my shadow functions (which I was when I first joined), I basically resembled a terribly unhealthy INFJ. As I've grown and started using the functions that I naturally use, I've become more myself, an ENFP.
 

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Heretic
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I guess you could say that, but I view it a little more differently. So, for example, my shadow functions (Ne, Fi, Te, and Si) are what I would avoid most because I'm not comfortable with them. But wouldn't that be like saying I'm not comfortable with anyone else that uses Ne, Fi, Te, and Si?
Yes...
Do I detect a regret of not being able to intuitively unite with all types? (Ni/Fe)

ESTJs will rub you the wrong way.
Jumping headlong into Si and Te will only make you more likely to bash them over the head
unless you have Ni, Fe, Ti and Se down to an art.

Polish your strenghts and shore up your weaknesses.
Your biggest weaknesses are found in Ti and Se.
To fix lots of minor weaknesses in our shadow makes no sense.

You can however read up on the functions of others and deal with them from a Ni/Fe perspective.
Trying to be more Si in your case would be a very bad idea, IMO. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Okay, so I have a yes, and a no from the previous posts above....

Still, I think what I got out of the video mainly was that DaveSuperPowers is saying that we can't become well-rounded people by using all of our eight functions. After all, there are many books by experts on MBTI saying that it's good to become a well-rounded person, and part of that is developing all eight functions (i.e., Functions of Type by Hartzler). I would like to become a well-rounded person... because being well-rounded isn't bad.

Or maybe it is? Maybe this video is saying that.
 

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Okay, so I have a yes, and a no from the previous posts above....

Still, I think what I got out of the video mainly was that DaveSuperPowers is saying that we can't become well-rounded people by using all of our eight functions. After all, there are many books by experts on MBTI saying that it's good to become a well-rounded person, and part of that is developing all eight functions (i.e., Functions of Type by Hartzler). I would like to become a well-rounded person... because being well-rounded isn't bad.

Or maybe it is? Maybe this video is saying that.
Well that depends on the theory you subcribe too.
There are many of those. I believe that if you look at what Jung wrote,
it is psychologically impossible to delve into the shadow directely.
And if you try you will just waste lots of time and energy.

I havn't read these shadow delving books so I don't know what they recommend doing.
I can imagine that when they say shadow,
they are not refering to the shadow in the same sense as I'm doing.

They probably advice you to to something similar to blending Ti and Fe and calling it Te/Fi,
Ni and Se and calling it Si/Ne.

It is easy to emulate some of the traits a different type than you would posses and then
claim that you are infact using the same cognitive function that the type uses.
That is harmless from the perspective I'm addressing. :)
 

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My INTJ/INTP status is currently up in the air but any function test will tell you I use both Ti and Te to the max. This implies that either Ti or Te must be a shadow function. I don't know where I'd be without either of those, and a health dose of shadow (I think) Fe. Gets me places in life.

Well that depends on the theory you subcribe too.
There are many of those. I believe that if you look at what Jung wrote,
it is psychologically impossible to delve into the shadow directely.
And if you try you will just waste lots of time and energy.
I haven't read Jung but if not delving directly means you won't ever use that as your first option, then I would agree. I never use a shadow function as my first line of attack on any situation. Suppose I need to use Fe: Oh shit. I probably need to use Fe in this circumstance! It's always followed by a metaphorical "oh shit", signifying I'm reaching into a dusty toolbox I'd rather not open unless I have to.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yeah, it's kinda like being in an emergency situation. If you were in an emergency situation, what would be your first instinct to use to solve that problem? It's the same deal with right-hand and left-hand. Maybe you needed to write down a really important phone number in a short amount of time, what hand would you use first regardless if you're ambidextrous?

As for using the shadow functions, I don't think there would be anything wrong with looking into them. Maybe it would be "dangerous" since it would use a lot of your energy and whatnot, but there isn't anything wrong with it from where I stand. Actually, in the first thread I wrote, I mentioned how I admired types with Te and how I liked to imitate them. I used to think I was an INTJ because of it. ^^'
 

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Heretic
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My INTJ/INTP status is currently up in the air but any function test will tell you I use both Ti and Te to the max. This implies that either Ti or Te must be a shadow function. I don't know where I'd be without either of those, and a health dose of shadow (I think) Fe. Gets me places in life.
INTJ...
Not up in the air anymore.
Now get down on the ground, drop the inane serverside script, for whatever is important to you's sake.
A script can't find your focus.

You are clearly a Ni dom, with a weaker than expected Te and a Fi that makes itself known.
Ti? None at all.

Yes I read your questionaire, for the sole reason of being annoyed by this.
but any function test will tell you I use both Ti and Te
Now go away and sin no more. :p

EDIT:

Oh an edit to the post i commented...
Then I will edit myself. :p

I haven't read Jung but if not delving directly means you won't ever use that as your first option, then I would agree. I never use a shadow function as my first line of attack on any situation. Suppose I need to use Fe: Oh shit. I probably need to use Fe in this circumstance! It's always followed by a metaphorical "oh shit", signifying I'm reaching into a dusty toolbox I'd rather not open unless I have to.
What you are describing sounds a lot like using Te and Fi to emulate Fe traits.
To use Fe (conciously) you must deep down wish for unity.

For your education:

http://personalitycafe.com/articles...-understand-cognitive-functions-pictures.html

http://personalitycafe.com/articles/51815-field-extroverted-feeling-outside-perspective.html
 
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Heretic
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Yeah, it's kinda like being in an emergency situation. If you were in an emergency situation, what would be your first instinct to use to solve that problem? It's the same deal with right-hand and left-hand. Maybe you needed to write down a really important phone number in a short amount of time, what hand would you use first regardless if you're ambidextrous?

As for using the shadow functions, I don't think there would be anything wrong with looking into them. Maybe it would be "dangerous" since it would use a lot of your energy and whatnot, but there isn't anything wrong with it from where I stand. Actually, in the first thread I wrote, I mentioned how I admired types with Te and how I liked to imitate them. I used to think I was an INTJ because of it. ^^'
Yeah whatever. XD
What constitutes danger?
Then we have to have a discussion on how much risk to tolerate...

If you want to go sky-diving who am I to argue against it?
It's your neck... XD
If you find pleasure and meaning in exploring repressed perspectives,
that is your time and your energy. ;)

Besides you would probably just invent some really Ti way of claiming that Fe analyzed to death with Ti = Te.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm not quite sure about combining functions to make something though. Fe + Ti = Te? I'm no expert on functions, but something like that doesn't seem to make any sense. I'm not even sure if Jung would say something like that!

And yeah, by dangerous, it was subjective. It was why I put it in quotes. :)
 

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I'm not quite sure about combining functions to make something though. Fe + Ti = Te? I'm no expert on functions, but something like that doesn't seem to make any sense. I'm not even sure if Jung would say something like that!
By using Fe + Ti a person might con oneself into believing they have used Te.
They wouldn't actually have used that attitude.

To use Te you need to switch to an empirical evidence and usefulness perspective.
Fe users reject this perspective automaticly, cause if they don't they will start to distrupt the group harmony in many ways.

If you really want to delve into the shadow do dream analysis.
http://www.amazon.com/Jungian-Dream-Interpretation-Handbook-Psychology/dp/0919123120

Dreams according to Jung is your unconcious way of sending signals about aspects of yourself
that are repressed, but since they have a negative effect on your life you should address.
 

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Yes...
Do I detect a regret of not being able to intuitively unite with all types? (Ni/Fe)

ESTJs will rub you the wrong way.
Jumping headlong into Si and Te will only make you more likely to bash them over the head
unless you have Ni, Fe, Ti and Se down to an art.

Polish your strenghts and shore up your weaknesses.
Your biggest weaknesses are found in Ti and Se.
To fix lots of minor weaknesses in our shadow makes no sense.

You can however read up on the functions of others and deal with them from a Ni/Fe perspective.
Trying to be more Si in your case would be a very bad idea, IMO. ;)
If you want to learn about type relationships, learn socionics. If you're following jung, all of the functions are going to be rooted in a deep and subjective way. This means that things such as values and opinions will probably only very lightly correlate. And is equally why cross applying functions to relationships is so unreliable. What you're saying is evidently not necessarily true and a lot of the type-methodology that you use here seems to be similar to that of MBTT followers. Davesuperpowers provides practical application to the functions - which is probably the #1 cause of mistyping in this context.
 

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By using Fe + Ti a person might con oneself into believing they have used Te.
They wouldn't actually have used that attitude.

To use Te you need to switch to an empirical evidence and usefulness perspective.
Fe users reject this perspective automaticly, cause if they don't they will start to distrupt the group harmony in many ways.

If you really want to delve into the shadow do dream analysis.
Amazon.com: Jungian Dream Interpretation: A Handbook of Theory and Practice (Studies in Jungian Psychology By Jungian Analysts, 13) (9780919123120): James A. Hall: Books

Dreams according to Jung is your unconcious way of sending signals about aspects of yourself
that are repressed, but since they have a negative effect on your life you should address.
How....

How?

How could Ti-Fe possibly​ be confused with Te?
 

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By having inferior Ti! ;)
But Fe+Ti =/= Te in either appearance or execution. Maintaining group harmony by using logical principles doesn't look like making objectively accurate decisions based on available, measurable/objective data.
 

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But Fe+Ti =/= Te in either appearance or execution. Maintaining group harmony by using logical principles doesn't look like making objectively accurate decisions based on available, measurable/objective data.
Just because you can see that with your aux Ti doesn't mean they can see that! :p
 

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@hornet, do you mean something like using Ti in the service of Fe? E.g. an INFJ could want to help people and would thus need to come up with a plan about how to help them? E.g. if they saw that someone is excluded from a group or has poor social skills, they'd make a plan how to include them into the group or teach them better social skills? And they'd then think that this is Te?

I think I know what you mean about Te+Fi resulting in fake Fe: e.g. if I want to keep a friend happy I'd better say something considerate. The long term aim is too keep my friend and not scare them off, so it's a good idea to say one of them things whether I actually feel them or not. Long term selfishness overrides short term selfishness.

By the way, I never knew ISFPs were such nasty little creatures ;) This is supposed to be a compliment!
 

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@hornet, do you mean something like using Ti in the service of Fe? E.g. an INFJ could want to help people and would thus need to come up with a plan about how to help them? E.g. if they saw that someone is excluded from a group or has poor social skills, they'd make a plan how to include them into the group or teach them better social skills? And they'd then think that this is Te?

I think I know what you mean about Te+Fi resulting in fake Fe: e.g. if I want to keep a friend happy I'd better say something considerate. The long term aim is too keep my friend and not scare them off, so it's a good idea to say one of them things whether I actually feel them or not. Long term selfishness overrides short term selfishness.

By the way, I never knew ISFPs were such nasty little creatures ;) This is supposed to be a compliment!
Yeah precisely, you can emulate the effects of the function and if you do mbti may believe that you just did
an opposite function. But pretending to be focused on unity is precisely that PRETENDING!
You didn't process the information in the way that you should to have that function.

As for us ISFPs I dunno about the others...
And I don't really get what you mean by nasty creature XD
I accept the compliment though! Even if I don't understand why I got it... :)
 
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