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Birdie Borracho
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I did not want to hijack @Creativitron 's thoughtful thread so I'm starting an off shoot. His is here: http://personalitycafe.com/entp-forum-visionaries/544978-we-entps-actually-sociable-introverts.html

This is regarding energy sources and is responding to @LoveDragonDon 's post on the above thread, regarding energy sources:

BTW, FYI, I HATE those tests that solely judge you as E or I by how you recharge your energy. Frigging moronic.

I mean, IMO, that couldn't be more dumber (close minded) way to find out for sure. EVERYBODY gets tired and after socialize for a while they need some alone time, BOTH Extroverts and Introverts do this eventually at the end of the day. Extroverts after a day of socializing, don't go home and spend time alone and recharge? Nobody I know is like that. EVERYONE needs sleep, watch some TV, instead of having constant yelling and noise in their head.

So, don't say that this is the solely parameter to tell if someone is E or I.
I used to think this way, because I could be worn out being around people and needing to be by myself to recharge. What I realized, however, is the key to being energized is more about using your dominant function, as well as, you auxiliary function, to a lesser degree. So I can get energized around people, and be in great comedic form (nowadays, at least), whenever my Ne is being used to uncover new possibilities. So meeting strangers at a party becomes fucking fantastic because I see so many possibilities to "experiment" and "discover", with my Ti being engaged to analyze the situation.

Another example, ESPs are the primary face of living the club life. They can live the moment, while experiencing new sensory moments such as "Damn, look at dat ass!" or "I just looove shaking my ass!". Or our SP counterparts can enjoy extreme sports, traveling, or meeting people in general, but the energy comes from being around people sharing their perception, same as us.

For introverts, their primary energy source is going to be derived internally, with some external function supporting it. An ISTJ army soldier, is going to be fully torqued, mentally, when he is with his regiment, and is fully absorbed into their sense of duty (Si+Te). An ISFP model, who is fully into her photo shoot because she feels happy about herself and is living in the moment (Fi+Se). For our type siblings, An INTP data analyst, for example, will get his rocks off, at work, when he is having to crunch huge data sets and then speculate the hypotheticals involved.

These introvert examples (convenient stereotypes, as well) also work for their extroverted counterparts. The difference, is that the dominant function is needed. When I'm by myself, I can be energized because my Ne is speculating new intuitive concepts. As far as the introvert/extrovert dilemma, it's really just a spectrum as cognitively healthy people tend to be a little more ambiverted. We all have a preference however, and I could survive without Ti, in certain situations, if I'm humoring my Ne. But if I would have to fix a car for example, and analyze it with Ti, I would quickly lose interest as my Ne has no desire to learn how to do it. What makes us ENTPs,

In summation, is that our life revolves around serving the desires of Ne and supporting it with Ti logic. It doesn't mean we can't spend a lot of alone time. It just means our alone time is going to spent perceiving concepts beyond our internal self. Activities such as playing/modding a game, inventing a widget, reading an interesting book, or connecting threads on PerC. These hobbies might be things our INTP siblings enjoy (Hell other types too), but the source of the inspiration is rooted in Ne, with being the sweetener.
 

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Cool that you going into details with this, and trust me I understand completely what you are saying.


It's just that my problem with the test question to determine whether you are Extrovert or Introvert is solely based on "How you recharge yourself" By around people. Or by yourself) is NOT a well-formed question. The test question here, should be rephrased so that the people taken it can understand the difference better.

But matters not, not all tests are equally good. Better tests ask people a lot of questions to form a conclusion, than only a few questions that judges you. Those kinds are not good tests.

When you take a bad test, you get a result that put you in the wrong personality profile, so take a good test that ask you 50 or more questions than one with just 10 questions.

Why is taking a thorough test important? Because personality is complex, many tests ask you about Introvert or Extrovert is also factored into S/N, F/T, P/J as well. So, if test is based on so few questions, it rarely is a good and accurate one. You can't ignore that T type loves to think critically or impersonal so often we don't seem interested to connect well with those people that are irrational and overly emotional. That doesn't make us Introverts at all. More questions about your preference is always better than less questions.
 

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I agree with you about using my Ne to be energized - I get most of my energy when I'm with people taken that I can use it while I'm with them. If I'm with a friend who is not intuitive at all (don't mean all sensors but the ones with the strongest S) I will have to recharge either alone or with a person I can use my Ne with. I also agree that at parties etc I primarily live for meeting strangers rather than going for sensory moments because that's my way of getting energy out of the situation.
 

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Being an introvert vs being an extrovert isn't a matter of whether you are out going or sociable.

The difference between introvert and extrovert is whether you base your beliefs more heavily on subjective(own thoughts, old beliefs,accumulation of experiences) or objective info (new info, new ideas, new experiences). So extroverts are quicker to abandon old beliefs based off of new ideas, other people's logic, or new experiments whereas introverts hold their own beliefs, own logic, and former evidence in higher regard.

MBTi types (Jung Psychological types) refer to thinking style although the MBTi test is based off of behave. Thinkings/belief forming style is related to behavior since decisions are beliefs and your behave is your accumulation of your decisions. Behavior also factors into personality though personality tends to refer to a vague conglomeration of behavior, experiences, interests, tastes, beliefs etc. and not just thinking style.

The description of extrovert/introvert being related to where people get energy from is just an analogy since a lot people have difficulty grasping the concept of objective vs subjective. That analogy can help some people identify themselves better, but it's not the actual definition and not the best way to judge because you can have very outgoing introverts and very quiet and less social extroverts. I think being outgoing/socialable has more to do with the environment you grew up in than your MBTi type. For instance the middle child is usually quieter while the youngest is usually the loudest since they've always had to compete for attention.

The energy analogy I think does kind of make sense though in that introverts tend to find social situations more anxiety producing while extroverts can find time alone anxiety producing. For example an introvert since they base their beliefs more on their own thoughts can find it very stressful when others disagree with them and don't listen to the reason why they believe the things they do. Whereas myself I don't expect others to agree w/ me and easily admit I might always be wrong and so people disagreeing with me doesn't bother me at all, in fact I prefer when people challenge my beliefs... what I do find very stressful is lying in bed by myself with thoughts that won't shut up. ....so as far as energy goes I think it's not so much a matter of energy as what situations are you more likely to feel anxiety? social situations or from your own thoughts

It's also good to keep in mind that introvert vs extrovert is just a matter of which you lean more towards relative to others. Everyone thinks both ways. Being one type doesn't exclude yourself from thinking in the other style and experiencing the associated energy and anxieties, but I do think most if not everyone does tend to lean more one way or another.
 

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In summation, is that our life revolves around serving the desires of Ne and supporting it with Ti logic. It doesn't mean we can't spend a lot of alone time. It just means our alone time is going to spent perceiving concepts beyond our internal self. Activities such as playing/modding a game, inventing a widget, reading an interesting book, or connecting threads on PerC. These hobbies might be things our INTP siblings enjoy (Hell other types too), but the source of the inspiration is rooted in Ne, with being the sweetener.
I agree w/ what you wrote. I think activities like reading books, discussing things on online forums, watching tv, documentaries, and movies, playing video games, building, designing, and experimenting are all types of things that can actually be extroverted activities because your mainly focused on absorbing ideas and info from outside yourself, even though they are things you can do alone. I think the tendency for ENTPs to focus a lot on these types of activities is why we can often seem introverted since it doesn't fit into the stereotypical description. Such activities I think introverts can also spend a lot of time in as introverted activities its just when they do it they kinda spend more time thinking and spacing out in their own thoughts either during or in reflection afterwards whereas I'm more just trying to absorb as much info as I can.
 

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Love what you did with the title. :happy:
(honestly)
 

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Lol me too, I did @Someone in my visitor message, I think it just doesn't work :D

Subscribing for later sparrings with you guys!
 

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For an extravert, I spend a lot of time by myself. When I think about what I'm doing when I'm by myself, I realized that I'm researching things that interest me, digging through articles/blogs, interacting on forums, working/planning/creating personal projects, catching up with friends, constantly ctrl+Ting with new and more things to look into. My time alone is largely spent exploring and absorbing; although I do it alone, there is constant interaction between world and self.

This is extremely pleasurable to me. I sometimes much prefer this over actual social interaction, but this could be because this guarantees I'll be interested in the subject of discussion - a guarantee I don't have with actual humans. Either way, this process usually boosts up my energy, which I then want to go and release with human interaction.
 

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Put a Se or Fe dom in an environment full of interesting abstract ideas suited for a Ne dom and they will seem introverted while the Ne doms will be seen as more extraverted. My ESTP father is bored in abstract ideas sharing, while I gain energy from it.

Its all about the brain wiring fitting within a certain environment.

The whole problem seems pretty simple:
Se doms enjoy when others watch them display their practical skills in the form of direct expressions of the physical. While the Ne doms enjoy sharing ideas and expressing their abstract thoughts through words.
So the Ne dom will need to think things through while alone and Se dom will work on physical things while alone.
Whatever gives you dopamine man.

My ESTP friend is quick to pick up a tool and solve the problem practically, while I give him possibilities or ideas for him to apply his skill set to. If we had to switch roles neither of us would get energised as much as we could.
 

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Birdie Borracho
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@LoveDragonDon
We're both right in this regard. That is why I started a new thread, because I did not actually think I needed to directly contradict you. You are most certainly right when it comes to how badly online tests can be. I don't give people tests anymore. At this point, I can almost always figure them out and I just show them what they are. We should fashion our own 250 part question on this thread haha.

I would agree with @desire machine that the energy component is only part of the big picture. I did not want to write a novel on this thread, so I focused on the part that was something I was once skeptical on. The only thing I'd counter DM, is that it's not purely subjective vs objective matching with introvert & extrovert, respectively. Instead, I'd go back to the functions. A J-dom is going to be initially subjective while a P-dom is objective. As we become teens, out 2nd function is suppose to fully develop and then it's just personal development from there. I know STJs that are "my way or the highway" and others that are more willing to hear discussion, with ESTJ/ISTJ split equally. SOme other highlights of the debate:

-Extroverts are more suitable to conflict, more likely to talk first to strangers, and are quantitatively, more friendly.
-Introverts are more likely to clamp up and avoid conflict, let others come to them, and quantitatively, more genuine in their approach.
-Also, I've noticed that extroverts tend to have higher pitch voices than introverts, on average. James Earl Jones barely talked as a kid. (Fact but don't feel like looking up the details; Google it yourself.)
@draculaoverlord for my more sensory friends, I tend to avoid deep subjects and instead funnel my Ne into their activities. So if I'm drinking with STPs, I might do some stupid yet funny things that satisfy my ironic/dorky Ne humor, but it also draws a laugh from their Se humor.
@Tzara ... yep, I still cannot understand why none of my threads have a bold title.
@saltana Nothing you said suggested you couldn't be an ENTP because of that. In fact, ENTPs are often called the most introverted extrovert. I can be very quiet when I'm in an unfamiliar environment. I spend awhile analyzing the social dynamics because I use to suffer from "foot in mouth" disease, when I was younger.
@jkp
Whatever gives you dopamine man.
That is exactly it, haha. The funny thing, however, is that our dominant function does not give us sustained energy. In fact, when our Ne goes into overdrive we can become the hyperactive part of ADHD. After a while of being in a coked-out Ne Euphoria, I can become tired and need to recharge by doing the opposite, nothing. This "low" is usually the day after being in a fun Ne-fueled atmosphere. If I go to the bar and have a blast, my hangover the next day is going to be partly tied to using a lot of dopamine. That and the copious amounts of alcohol.
 

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@Tzara ... yep, I still cannot understand why none of my threads have a bold title.
Unread threads are bold titled.
Once you read them, it becomes "unbolded"
until someone posts again.

So you cant bold them yourself.
 
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@draculaoverlord for my more sensory friends, I tend to avoid deep subjects and instead funnel my Ne into their activities. So if I'm drinking with STPs, I might do some stupid yet funny things that satisfy my ironic/dorky Ne humor, but it also draws a laugh from their Se humor.
Oh, my ESTP friends are extremely good company, doesn't matter whether for drinking or just doing something else but I get increasingly drained from spending long periods of time with my two ESFJ friends. I even get drained when I get BS snapchats from one of them (latest: "Oh my god I'm dying, we have math tomorrow!!! Have you studied???") and especially when I start receiving more asking why I never replied -__- I wonder why. They can be fun, of course, but sometimes they're just too much. I get along better with ESFPs though.
 

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Birdie Borracho
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
@Tzara thanks for the explanation. I believe you are this week's "Friend of the Week"!
@draculaoverlord I feel ya there. I've noticed that ENTP women I meet often run with SFJ crowds. In fact, being a female thinker or male feeler seems frustrating, especially the first. I have many friends and I know quite a lot of ESFJs. Their Fe just wants to connect so I've learned to humor it. The problem I have, and perhaps you more, is when they make Fe demands such as always keeping them informed about the details in your life. My Grandma is like that, and talking to her sometimes seems like a chore.

With STPs, they can be fun to hang out with, but after awhile it can be a little less than fulfilling, especially if I'm in a philosophical mode. Sensory types, quantitatively, can talk deep, but you usually have to catch them in that mood. Some are never in the mood and there is a portion that can always adapt. I have an ISTJ friend with whom I can talk psychology, when we're one on one.

I'm curious though, do a lot of ESFJ females treat you like one of them, but just not as disciplined? As a male, I sometimes get judgment from STJs who think I'm supposed to be like them, but I don't have the same sense of responsibility. I'm also assuming that 99% of people know very little about general psychology, much less personality types.
 
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@Tzara thanks for the explanation. I believe you are this week's "Friend of the Week"!


Thank you! Oh! Thank you! I can hardly believe this! I feel so blessed! And this award - it's so amazing! Oh, thank you again! I just want everyone to know that even in my wildest hallucinations, I never would have fantasized that this could ever happen to me. And to the other suck-ass nominees, I want each of you to know how totally wonderful your jealousy makes me feel right now!

You know when they first told me I was n't blonde enough, I just had to take a minute and laugh about how great my love scenes have been. I guess it all just makes me feel kinda special

You know, there are so many ass-kissing stalkers to thank! First off though, I want to thank the glorified prostitutes of the Academy, who looked deep within their wallets before giving me this fantastic award! Also, I want to thank Vishnu, for being such a powerful force in my loins. And to Dad, who taught me to take life by the horns. And finally, to all the Producers I slept with - I couldn't have done it without you!

Thank you America, and good night!
 

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@draculaoverlord I feel ya there. I've noticed that ENTP women I meet often run with SFJ crowds. In fact, being a female thinker or male feeler seems frustrating, especially the first. I have many friends and I know quite a lot of ESFJs. Their Fe just wants to connect so I've learned to humor it. The problem I have, and perhaps you more, is when they make Fe demands such as always keeping them informed about the details in your life. My Grandma is like that, and talking to her sometimes seems like a chore.

With STPs, they can be fun to hang out with, but after awhile it can be a little less than fulfilling, especially if I'm in a philosophical mode. Sensory types, quantitatively, can talk deep, but you usually have to catch them in that mood. Some are never in the mood and there is a portion that can always adapt. I have an ISTJ friend with whom I can talk psychology, when we're one on one.

I'm curious though, do a lot of ESFJ females treat you like one of them, but just not as disciplined? As a male, I sometimes get judgment from STJs who think I'm supposed to be like them, but I don't have the same sense of responsibility. I'm also assuming that 99% of people know very little about general psychology, much less personality types.
It's incredibly frustrating, I was generally called a bitch for absolutely no reason for my first year in my current school. Okay, maybe there were some almost decent reasons but it was mostly just a lack of understanding because I could not bond with people emotionally (due to a turbulent family situation despite having been social I had never had a very close friend before I was seventeen and had to learn all the social norms etc regarding that by myself). But exactly, my friends seem to care a great deal for details such as why I've become good friends with someone I formerly sort of disliked or what I ate for dinner or whether I too think it's bloody cold outside.

One of my close friends is ESTP and she's so outgoing and people oriented that I actually manage to have stimulating conversations with her and what I love about her is that throughout the years I've known her, she's been practically the only one who has never judged or briefly disliked me for who I am. I clash horribly with my ISTJ classmate, she despises me to a great extent and ages ago I labeled her as one of the most boring people I've ever come across.

ESFJ females ... They treat me like I'm one of them to some extent, at the same time they think I care about everything they like to say and do and yet fail to understand why I behave like I do. They think I have zero ambition and for them the fact that I have ADHD justifies every single thing I do ("Oh, you seem excited. Are you off your meds?"). I find both of them good company when I'm in the mood but often end up regretting it - they fail to realize that there are different people around. For example, I had a sleepover with 2x ESFJ and an INFP and when me and the INFP started talking about interesting things one of them interrupts with "But let's talk about guys! That's always fun" -__- They think not getting things done equals to stupid and that jokingly making fun of your friends equals to mean which sucks. And analytical conversations equal to boring.
 

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The only thing I'd counter DM, is that it's not purely subjective vs objective matching with introvert & extrovert, respectively. Instead, I'd go back to the functions. A J-dom is going to be initially subjective while a P-dom is objective. As we become teens, out 2nd function is suppose to fully develop and then it's just personal development from there. I know STJs that are "my way or the highway" and others that are more willing to hear discussion, with ESTJ/ISTJ split equally.
good point. I think the whole subjective/objective is a bit confusing not just because subjective vs objective is very abstract concept, but because any thinking uses a combination of both and so its more much more complex that just simply using one or the other. When comparing ENTP and INTP I find that it's almost like the opposite, in that an ENTP will actually come up w/ a lot of ideas subjectively, but then test out the validity of those ideas externally, objectively such as by debating and looking for evidence and alternative possibilities. Whereas an INTP can also be pretty open minded taking in ideas, but while they get ideas more objectively how they validate is more focused on subjectively validating if it makes sense using their internal logic.
 

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My bed! I have to plug to my sleeping station every now and then :D
 
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Birdie Borracho
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
It's incredibly frustrating, I was generally called a bitch for absolutely no reason for my first year in my current school. Okay, maybe there were some almost decent reasons but it was mostly just a lack of understanding because I could not bond with people emotionally (due to a turbulent family situation despite having been social I had never had a very close friend before I was seventeen and had to learn all the social norms etc regarding that by myself). But exactly, my friends seem to care a great deal for details such as why I've become good friends with someone I formerly sort of disliked or what I ate for dinner or whether I too think it's bloody cold outside.

One of my close friends is ESTP and she's so outgoing and people oriented that I actually manage to have stimulating conversations with her and what I love about her is that throughout the years I've known her, she's been practically the only one who has never judged or briefly disliked me for who I am. I clash horribly with my ISTJ classmate, she despises me to a great extent and ages ago I labeled her as one of the most boring people I've ever come across.

ESFJ females ... They treat me like I'm one of them to some extent, at the same time they think I care about everything they like to say and do and yet fail to understand why I behave like I do. They think I have zero ambition and for them the fact that I have ADHD justifies every single thing I do ("Oh, you seem excited. Are you off your meds?"). I find both of them good company when I'm in the mood but often end up regretting it - they fail to realize that there are different people around. For example, I had a sleepover with 2x ESFJ and an INFP and when me and the INFP started talking about interesting things one of them interrupts with "But let's talk about guys! That's always fun" -__- They think not getting things done equals to stupid and that jokingly making fun of your friends equals to mean which sucks. And analytical conversations equal to boring.
Your age might be a factor. If you're in high school, then SJs have not really developed Ne yet, and you're still struggling with Fe. College is where it starts to take shape and it becomes easier to become friends with more people.
@desire machine every time I read your posts and see your avatar, I think I'm reading an INTP post. You kind of sound like one of dem databots, even though ENTPs are peoplebots.
 
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Birdie Borracho
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·


Thank you! Oh! Thank you! I can hardly believe this! I feel so blessed! And this award - it's so amazing! Oh, thank you again! I just want everyone to know that even in my wildest hallucinations, I never would have fantasized that this could ever happen to me. And to the other suck-ass nominees, I want each of you to know how totally wonderful your jealousy makes me feel right now!

You know when they first told me I was n't blonde enough, I just had to take a minute and laugh about how great my love scenes have been. I guess it all just makes me feel kinda special

You know, there are so many ass-kissing stalkers to thank! First off though, I want to thank the glorified prostitutes of the Academy, who looked deep within their wallets before giving me this fantastic award! Also, I want to thank Vishnu, for being such a powerful force in my loins. And to Dad, who taught me to take life by the horns. And finally, to all the Producers I slept with - I couldn't have done it without you!

Thank you America, and good night!
Wow, what a slut! I sure do love happy endings.
 
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i might have done about 500 different tests by now and it always comes ENTP, nevertheless, i always question myself about that, i'm still not very fund on this though, it seems like you have to fit in some box of traits and that makes me think "fuck you, i can be anyone, i'm wataaa, my friend". btw, i don't always have that so called Ne explosion, as a matter of fact my mind is blank for the most of the time.
 
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