[Raichan]

Under the debate forum, I started a thread to do with being 'deep.'

I want to write one for INFP's too :crazy:

What do you think makes a person 'deep'?

For me, a person is deep when:

-The person is able to recognize how to emotionally grow with his/her creative, unique thoughts directed from his/her internal world.

- The person is able to understand personal meanings without the need of understanding them at face value and then apply them as practical solutions.

- The person is able to extract good understanding from complex thoughts and understand the bigger picture even behind complex situations.

- The person does not dismiss most parts of imagination as irrationality or uselessness, but instead use it for creative dreams and personal fulfillment.

- The person does not limit his/her own thinking to what is usually assumed as conventional or textbook knowledge, but extends his/her own thinking even if it meets standards which are beyond eccentric.


Do you think that you're deep as an INFP? How? Has it helped you in life or otherwise?

 

[Leroy]

People can always appreciate someone who can see them for who they are. It's made me some good friends in the past

 

[BryterLayter]

i think its pretty impossible to be an INFP and not be deep. its really just who we are naturally, most of the time we don't even realize we're "deep".

 

[xezene]

Sensitivity, thought -- you can usually hook me if you can express something important by not shouting and by not jumping around. Communicate it with your eyes, or your facial expression or something and in my eyes you are already deep and special.

 

[Matchbook]

I won't attempt to be exhaustive with this.

I believe having depth as an individual includes:

1. Contemplation of all things in search of understanding their emotional, mental, physical, or social importance beyond what is readily perceived.
2. Using that gathered understanding in a mode of expression that reflects our personal experience with what we have learned and observed. That expression may be to benefit others, or it may be an outgrowth of our understanding that is expressed to aid our own personal growth.
3. Searching for, recognizing, and creatively exploring the interconnectedness of life, between the animate and inanimate, the spiritual and the physical. (Personal example footnote given at the end)
4. Pursuing what is hidden and unearthing the core meaning.
5. Becoming completely honest with one's self. To wade through the many reactive and adopted behaviors and emotions we exhibit and experience, and become familiar with our needs, desires, and the meaning beneath what we are expressing. In full circle, once we recognize these needs and the meaning of expressions, we should seek to recognize this in others so that we can empathize and meet those needs.

Izzie's Questions:
"Do you think you're deep as an INFP? How?
My ego eggs me on to say that I am, but how can I know when I have crossed the threshold and entered the state of existence where I am now "deep?" So it is easier for me to say that instead of saying I am deep, I am in a process of digging deeper into inner and outer existence with a goal of doing so in relentless search of truth, while trying to keep myself from going off the deep end.
Has it helped you in life or otherwise?
I appreciate life more. My spiritual nature is enlivened and experiences more connection with the marvelous wisdom of whom I recognize as the Divine Creator. My intuition is more frequently sparked and I recognize the essence of other's needs and experiences with greater intensity so that I can connect with them and support them on more important levels.


(Footnote)By way of personal example of recognizing interconnectedness (#3), when in nature I have observed the birds, and have tried to understand their own world, and as I watch and listen, I begin to witness the emergence of their dispositions, motives, and expressions, and suddenly it becomes clear that their world mirrors ours very closely. There are the self-seeking birds with raspy voices that steal food and the eggs of other birds. There are the militaristic canadian geese that thrive on order and teamwork, trumpeting communication amongst the ranks. There is the cheery robin that greets the early dawn with an effervescent song and gets right to work, responsibly gathering food and tending to its family.

These behavioral patterns and the bird heirarchies are closely paralleled by the behavioral patterns and heirarchies of humans. But by observing the birds, I can see the more simplistic nature of the behaviors and their consequences more easily than in human confusion.
-By watching birds I can see that self-seeking, self-indulgence, and aggression leads to a life of quarrelsome strife, and their character is reflected by their ugly auditory emissions, and they become regarded as irritating and disdained. Have you heard a bird with a cheerful warble that is a pest bird?
-The canadian geese demonstrate to me that through steady communication and social order great distances can be covered. They look out for the good of the group, and by flying in a V formation, and continually rotating the ranks, 71 percent reduction in drag is achieved for each trailing bird.
-Robins show me that by getting an early start to the day with expressions of joy are a good preparation for a day of labor, and that putting in some toil to gather and build one's livelihood can help lead to a happy home. This, to me, is symbolized by what the robin produces: A light blue egg of a warm hue. Along with green, robin's egg blue is the most soothing color to the mind. The tireless work and dedication of the robin eventually results in an egg of peaceful blue that embraces the next generation.

 

[Raichan]

I think being deep is crucial, it helps a person see that not everything is what it seems on the outside and makes a person humble in searching for a few bigger pictures in life.

 

[Tommy]

3. Searching for, recognizing, and creatively exploring the interconnectedness of life, between the animate and inanimate, the spiritual and the physical. (Personal example footnote given at the end)
4. Pursuing what is hidden and unearthing the core meaning.

The more I think, the wider my perspective becomes. The happiness of my life shrinks in the proportion, and to be frank, it sucks. A moment of removing all understanding, insight and consequence, is truly a very good moment.

Many of the healthy states of personality are in my opinion attainable based on imaginary truths, and the forgetting of the bad factors in your life.

Not that I am clinically depressed or anything. I just hoped to find something good within, through reflection. But all I have found is that you have to work hard and move forward. Patience, perseverance and diligence.

 

[Shorttail]

Being deep is applying more thought to certain details than the majority.

 

[infpblog]

I think a better question is: Has being deep made any INFP any happier or more fulfilled with their lives? Has being deep improved the quality of life for any INFP or are they still kind of stuck in their head being deep?

For me, being deep isn't one of the qualities that I look for people I want to associate with. I'm rather shallow in that I just prefer people who are fun to be around.

 

[itrick]

I personally do not like some of the directions that this line thinking leads. The opening post and subsequent dialogue seems to (at times) create a dichotomy of value with respect to people.

I guess, with respect to this discussion, I want to make sure that I address that I think it's a mistake to quantify human worth based on any generalized quality.

And while I realize that this is not intentionally being done, the implied message from some of the discussion is that people who aren't deep are somehow lacking something of worth, they are not as well-rounded, they are not as valuable as people who are considered deep.

I cannot stand behind a message of that nature. We all have strengths and weaknesses and at times there is need for people who act without the burden of deeper thoughts. That is just life, and to associate value to the one type of individual without recognizing the value of the other, is a mistake (in my opinion).

 

[Matchbook]

Reply to itrick:

And while I realize that this is not intentionally being done, the implied message from some of the discussion is that people who aren't deep are somehow lacking something of worth, they are not as well-rounded, they are not as valuable as people who are considered deep.

I cannot stand behind a message of that nature. We all have strengths and weaknesses and at times there is need for people who act without the burden of deeper thoughts. That is just life, and to associate value to the one type of individual without recognizing the value of the other, is a mistake (in my opinion).

I'm not sure if anything said in particular gave you this idea, but I don't believe this is the message of the topic. Just because we are investigating the essence and importance of this particular quality, magnifying it, does not mean it is being magnified in importance. If this were the NT forum, and the topic were logic, I might view it and get the idea that anyone without superior logic was inferior, even if it wasn't directly communicated.

Having said this, I will admit that this kind of focus can be problematic. In fact, one of the main problems of someone who is "deep" is that there is a tendency toward self-absorption and distraction from reality. I had a Grandmother who was an ESFJ, and she just did not tend toward deep qualities at all, but you know what, I valued her traits, and wish I had more of them - selflessness, cheerfulness, tireless providing for others. These are qualities that make a practical difference in the world and directly in the lives of people. Everyone has been given gifts that differ from others, and it is the collective gifts and people's abilities to unify their purposes that bring practical value to each gift. INFPs of depth can change the world with their insights into life...if they are willing to translate that gift into selfless purpose, and ESFJs like my Grandmother can change the world with their service and attitude toward others. There is no room for elitism.

 

[white-knuckle]

I think depth is obsessive in its conquest to find true understanding. It is not to be satisfied with a textbook answer though it will consider that and anything else it can find, discover, or is related. It is to consider numerous possibilities. Its kind of like truth is running around, and your running around to pin it down but you just cant.

As with people my deeper relations have been with those I have unspoken understandings with. These people tend to be feelers. My deepest relationships are completely trustworthy, relaxed, and we say so much without talking much of the time. There is a 100 percent trust in these.

They are very adventurous friendships and I have the most amazing adventures with deep people. They are the ones that can look past at life, and realize that thier job is never more important than thier happiness because they are going to die one day. I know its odd to say this but some people its like they are so caught up in day to day life without looking ahead.

They are the same people you can go swimming with at night under the stars, jump off bridges together, hike, appreciate nature, beautiful music with, the arts, and just heighten the senses of this experience that life is.

Deep people have an energy around them, a very bright and distinct aura, babies trust them immediatly, animals love them, they dont just care about putting on a face for the world, they care about the quality of the relationships with thier family and immediate loved ones.

 

[itrick]

Reply to itrick:



I'm not sure if anything said in particular gave you this idea, but I don't believe this is the message of the topic. Just because we are investigating the essence and importance of this particular quality, magnifying it, does not mean it is being magnified in importance. If this were the NT forum, and the topic were logic, I might view it and get the idea that anyone without superior logic was inferior, even if it wasn't directly communicated.

Having said this, I will admit that this kind of focus can be problematic. In fact, one of the main problems of someone who is "deep" is that there is a tendency toward self-absorption and distraction from reality. I had a Grandmother who was an ESFJ, and she just did not tend toward deep qualities at all, but you know what, I valued her traits, and wish I had more of them - selflessness, cheerfulness, tireless providing for others. These are qualities that make a practical difference in the world and directly in the lives of people. Everyone has been given gifts that differ from others, and it is the collective gifts and people's abilities to unify their purposes that bring practical value to each gift. INFPs of depth can change the world with their insights into life...if they are willing to translate that gift into selfless purpose, and ESFJs like my Grandmother can change the world with their service and attitude toward others. There is no room for elitism.

Ha! How very INFP of you. No I wasn't directing the criticism to anyone in particular but the discussion as a whole.

I just want to make sure that we give value to all people, whether deep or not deep. There seemed to be a few comments that gave deep people more value, but you'll note all my language is in relatives and not directed to anyone in particular. (Also very INFPish)

 

[Raichan]

I have a paradox in my mind. I think depth is important, but I also wonder about it being a subjective matter.

For example, what classifies as deep to an NF might not classify as deep to an NT, but what classifies as deep to an NT might not do it for an NF.

My mind is a little bit in circles today, can someone help out?

 

[itrick]

I have a paradox in my mind. I think depth is important, but I also wonder about it being a subjective matter.

For example, what classifies as deep to an NF might not classify as deep to an NT, but what classifies as deep to an NT might not do it for an NF.

My mind is a little bit in circles today, can someone help out?

Here's what I would say. If you're considering what people think is important, what they truly think is important, what they might classify as depth, I would suggest you stop thinking in terms of general personalities, but rather simply think in terms of an individual, and in terms of a lifetime.

No personality type shares perception all of the time. We may share small ways of thinking with others, we may share ways of thinking with our friends, we may share cultural ways of thinking too, but ultimately our perception is only our own, and it changes, with our age, our environment, etc..

This is the human experience, our minds are constantly shifting, growing, digressing and adapting. Our opinions, our truths, our lives are constantly intersecting the stimuli, the realities, the concepts and ideas we encounter, and the resulting interpretation forms the reality we make for ourselves.

Depth is therefore relative and truthfully redundant to the human experience. We are all deep. We are all capable of travelling the path of our mind, to the places it takes us. Perhaps you could say that those who are aware of their own perception are deeper than those who are not, but I am not so sure. I think there is something truly powerful in being able to believe in your mind’s interpretation that well.

In either case, my point is that the core of depth needs to be thought of in terms of individuality; our perceptions are unique and not bound by characteristics of our behavior. I for instance enjoy poetry; I enjoy writing poetry and layering it with meanings that perhaps no one but me will ever know. But there is an entire thread of INFP who hate poetry.

None of what I’m saying is new; this line of thinking has been around for ages. (Which is why I thought inception wasn’t as “ground breaking” as most people see to think it is; but at the same time I recognize that for someone newly exposed to the idea it would seem “ground breaking”). The other thing that this line of thinking does not do is give you any real truth. I would argue that granting our minds the power of perception makes finding truth all the harder. It’s like Plato’s shadows on the wall, if there is a truth behind this reality what we see may be vastly different than what is truth.

 

[Raichan]

Here's what I would say. If you're considering what people think is important, what they truly think is important, what they might classify as depth, I would suggest you stop thinking in terms of general personalities, but rather simply think in terms of an individual, and in terms of a lifetime.

No personality type shares perception all of the time. We may share small ways of thinking with others, we may share ways of thinking with our friends, we may share cultural ways of thinking too, but ultimately our perception is only our own, and it changes, with our age, our environment, etc..

This is the human experience, our minds are constantly shifting, growing, digressing and adapting. Our opinions, our truths, our lives are constantly intersecting the stimuli, the realities, the concepts and ideas we encounter, and the resulting interpretation forms the reality we make for ourselves.

Depth is therefore relative and truthfully redundant to the human experience. We are all deep. We are all capable of travelling the path of our mind, to the places it takes us. Perhaps you could say that those who are aware of their own perception are deeper than those who are not, but I am not so sure. I think there is something truly powerful in being able to believe in your mind’s interpretation that well.

In either case, my point is that the core of depth needs to be thought of in terms of individuality; our perceptions are unique and not bound by characteristics of our behavior. I for instance enjoy poetry; I enjoy writing poetry and layering it with meanings that perhaps no one but me will ever know. But there is an entire thread of INFP who hate poetry.

None of what I’m saying is new; this line of thinking has been around for ages. (Which is why I thought inception wasn’t as “ground breaking” as most people see to think it is; but at the same time I recognize that for someone newly exposed to the idea it would seem “ground breaking”). The other thing that this line of thinking does not do is give you any real truth. I would argue that granting our minds the power of perception makes finding truth all the harder. It’s like Plato’s shadows on the wall, if there is a truth behind this reality what we see may be vastly different than what is truth.

Hmm what you said makes a lot of sense. Thanks, it does open my mind a little bit further.

Perhaps partially it's an underlying combination of insecurities and ego mechanism in me that makes talk a little too much about depth :crazy:

Perhaps you could say that those who are aware of their own perception are deeper than those who are not, but I am not so sure.

I think it is also a matter of being brave or open enough to keep in touch with such particular perceptions in themselves. For example, certain individuals tend to unconsciously or consciously shut out a few aspects of depth in them because they are afraid that such aspects might be seen as too unconventional for themselves and everyone else. However, they've brought out other rich aspects in themselves, and choose how to incorporate them to become practical solutions and presentations for the outside world.

Do I make sense?


You've spoken like a true INFP, my friend :wink: (Which means that you've successfully showed and presented how one can think beyond the box)

 

[itrick]

Hmm what you said makes a lot of sense. Thanks, it does open my mind a little bit further.

Perhaps partially it's an underlying combination of insecurities and ego mechanism in me that makes talk a little too much about depth

I could sense that you were searching for some validation. But here is the real power of recognizing perception. You can control it to a degree. At times it may be like trying to divert a river, but if you are patient and give it time you can even divert a river.

What I'm talking about is making sure you give yourself value, despite what others may/or may not think of you. You don't NEED to think of yourself as being deep or even having to be deep in order to love yourself. Loving yourself should be as natural as breathing.

Of course I say this knowing full well that I am not perfect at doing this yet. I certainly have my foibles and admit that at times I regress to valuing to myself based on my achievements or self-professed strengths.

But in reality, you are not just a poet, you are not just deep, you are not your ego, you are not even just one period of your life. You are everything all wrapped together, you are complex, you are alive, and ultimately you are worthy of love and respect.

 

[kindaconfused]

Two words; tolerance and curiousity.