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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
Thank you for this interesting topic and replies.

As some of you said, I find the whole binary opposition between feminine and masculine traits very reductive and outdated. The concern about "being virile" for men is just bullsh*it to me. I'm a heterosexual man, but I've never recognised in traits culturally viewed as masculine. I'm gentle, helpful, I hate conflicts... I've always been more of an intellectual and arty type, and I've always hated sports and competitiveness. I've been made fun of during my teenage years for my so-called feminine traits. I've been called "gay" many times, as if exhibiting feminine traits equaled being gay, and as if being gay was the supreme disgrace for men. People should be free to behave as they please and shouldn't have to conform to some backward cultural norm.
Yeah, masculine and feminine now mean different things depending on the culture that you are from. I think it is better for us to have the freedom to define what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman, now that times have changed from when people were cavemen and weren't as advanced. It is probably a better idea, like @Drecon said, to think of masculinity and femininity is a spectrum, possibly of many different traits that each have a scale.

I'm also not a fan the emphasis on virility in men. I agree that people should be allowed to behave however they want, and shouldn't have to conform to gender stereotypes, as long as they are trying to be moral people.

It's really ridiculous that traits like being gentle, helpful, and disliking conflict are made fun of. All of those traits are like what makes a nice person. It's like guys are not supposed to be nice, even though being nice is a moral thing. And being too nice gets you labeled as feminine and gay.

Also, disliking competition is good thing because cooperation is better than competition. Competition is trying to get ahead of someone else and beat them, which imo is bad and can bring out the worst in people. Competition is something that is valued in individualistic cultures that value separating your self from others and getting ahead; I believe these ideas are bad and promote people to be to desiring of things. I follow the idea of Buddhism which states not be to desiring and not to get attached to things, so cultures with a competitive spirit go against this.
 
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I believe that hormones are a big part of masculinity and femininity. I know more about testeosterone, then estrogen and progesterone. I think that testosterone makes people grow more muscle, bodily and facial hair, and increases sex drive and energy. Now that I think of it, I'm probably a guy that is on the low end of testosterone levels, and I might have more levels of female hormones than the average guy. As for female hormones, I don't know exactly how they contribute to feminine traits, but it would be interesting to see if guys higher in female hormones have more feminine traits. In general, it would be interesting to look at hormone levels, brain structure, and other biological factors and see how femininity and masculinity differed in different people as these factors varied.

I find it kind of strange, given that I've thought about this more over time and have more perspective, that people are judged for what they wear. It's just clothing, something to keep you warm and covered, yet people judge others for what they wear based on gender. I guess most people are so caught up in culture and socialization, that they don't see things for what they really are. I'll admit that it is hard to take a step back, get out of yourself, your socialization, your learning, your expectations, and to judge something objectively and in a way that sees things more purely; that's the best way I can put it right now. Sigh, if only we could all be enlightened and view things in a moral way.

About your question that you posed to me, I'm not good at giving advice, but I think that you should find friends and a community where people accept you for who you are and don't judge you for what you wear, assuming that you are old enough to move to a place that is accepting.
If we ditch pride, the way will be paved all the way up to reason. Thats where we can observe the objective reality. Enlightment is very, very far away from basic logic, or pure rational reason. We can not be there, because we still want something else more than that. As enlightment is very picky on whom It chooses to take to become a vessel of expression for Itself. But caring is good too. Often thats what is needed for improvement. As that creates deeper understanding of the situation by adding empathy to reason.
 

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Yeah, masculine and feminine now mean different things depending on the culture that you are from. I think it is better for us to have the freedom to define what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman, now that times have changed from when people were cavemen and weren't as advanced. It is probably a better idea, like @Drecon said, to think of masculinity and femininity is a spectrum, possibly of many different traits that each have a scale.

I'm also not a fan the emphasis on virility in men. I agree that people should be allowed to behave however they want, and shouldn't have to conform to gender stereotypes, as long as they are trying to be moral people.

It's really ridiculous that traits like being gentle, helpful, and disliking conflict are made fun of. All of those traits are like what makes a nice person. It's like guys are not supposed to be nice, even though being nice is a moral thing. And being too nice gets you labeled as feminine and gay.

Also, disliking competition is good thing because cooperation is better than competition. Competition is trying to get ahead of someone else and beat them, which imo is bad and can bring out the worst in people. Competition is something that is valued in individualistic cultures that value separating your self from others and getting ahead; I believe these ideas are bad and promote people to be to desiring of things. I follow the idea of Buddhism which states not be to desiring and not to get attached to things, so cultures with a competitive spirit go against this.
I fully agree with you, and I think the world would be a better place without all that toxic masculinity. It might be a naive and simplistic idea, but I believe there would be less conflicts and violence.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
-No wonder, look in what a weird world were living in today. Immorality is neutral these days.
In what way is immorality neutral these days?


-True. Youre considering relocating.
I'm not considering relocating at the moment or in the near future. I'm afraid of change and don't want to move away from my parents. Also, my situation makes it so that is is not a good idea for me to move away.

-It can develop into that, indeed. But what would you wanna become, is what matters most.
I want to be a good person, but my narcissistic nature, low frustration tolerance, and other flaws get in the way. That is all that I will say now because I'm getting off topic.

-I have my days too, well submitting to idiocy what they were after with you, and us.
The first step of strenght is anger to allow us to exist as we are. Then, they suddenly lost. It pretty funny how amazed they become when they realize their tyranny didnt have permanent impact after all. Thats what firmness generates.
I don't quite understand what you are saying here.


-Its a major theme, but my pivot points here were that very few people are in control of themselves, by being rational and acting from pure reason rather than impulsive emotion based triggers.
I asked this because I wanted to go on a tangent about how emotions effect thoughts and decision making. I'm interested in the subject. I knew that it was just a detail in the point that you were trying to make. Do you know more about this topic?

-Hahah. What you consider masculine, to me is that firmness. Happy youre open to them.
You consider the three traits that I mentioned, bravery, endurance, and loyalty, as the trait of firmness? This shows that there is some subjectivity to which traits are masculine and which are feminine.


-Decisivness.
-Lacking any tolerance to internal hesitation regarding to morality. Like, solid instead of liquid. Fixed instead of adaptive. If you know what I mean.
If that is what firmness is and it applies to everything, which seems more like how I imagine the definition, then I'm not very strong in the trait of firmness. I'm very indecisive and tend to consider all the possibilities when making a decision. I'm just a skeptical person that questions many things, is uncertain of himself, plus I have trouble concentrating which makes decision making harder. But if your only talking about morality, then I'm somewhat firm, although not as firm as I used to be when I was a child. Also, how come you wont classify the trait of firmness as masculine or feminine?

-Those are things you need to figure out for yourself. Its going already very deep. Yeah, maslow is right too.
In addition to Maslow, based on what I've gleaned from reading about spirituality, there are probably spiritual goals, that vary based on the philosophy, that are valuable to try to attain.


I hope I find someone like that. But I kind of think that those kind of people are mainly found in Japan or other asian countries since anime is make in Japan and based off of asian cultures. I live in North America, although, I'm sure there are some people like that in North America somewhere.

-Id use PerC for that. Lets see: Find user Fennel here on PerC. She is infp and into Anime. Maybe the two of you will click. :)

Hope youll have a pleasant stay here. See you around
I've talked with Fennel on Pcafe and she seemed nice and interesting.

Also, based on your posts to me you it seems like you think that I recently registered at Pcafe but I registered here in 2011. But that is okay, you've been super nice to me in this thread and I really appreciate it.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
If we ditch pride, the way will be paved all the way up to reason. Thats where we can observe the objective reality. Enlightment is very, very far away from basic logic, or pure rational reason. We can not be there, because we still want something else more than that. As enlightment is very picky on whom It chooses to take to become a vessel of expression for Itself. But caring is good too. Often thats what is needed for improvement. As that creates deeper understanding of the situation by adding empathy to reason.
I think that it is cool that you are knowledgeable about enlightenment and spirituality. I consider those topics beautiful and it is always nice to talk to people about them. I know some things about enlightenment and spirituality and these are topics that I like to study.

I agree with you that pride, and also the ego, is a hindrance to seeing things for how they really are. But what do you mean when you say, "If we ditch pride, the way will be paved all the way up to reason?" Do you mean that all of our faculties will be able to perceive and make sense of the world more clearly, with reason being our highest faculty? If you mean this, then what other faculties do you include in the list of faculties that would perceive more clearly when pride is let go of.

Also, are you saying that getting rid of pride and becoming enlightened allows one to observe objective reality? How is enlightenment far from logic and reason? Why is enlightenment picky about who it chooses to express it? What do you mean when you said "we can't be [enlightened], because we still want something else more than that"?

Can you say more about enlightenment?
 
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Finally a stronger dialog.

In what way is immorality neutral these days?
-Not reacted against.




I'm not considering relocating at the moment or in the near future. I'm afraid of change and don't want to move away from my parents. Also, my situation makes it so that is is not a good idea for me to move away.
-Never let fear lead you. Always confronting it builds confidence. Confidence based on competence is extremely attractive to women. ALL women.



I want to be a good person, but my narcissistic nature, low frustration tolerance, and other flaws get in the way. That is all that I will say now because I'm getting off topic.
-Your thread, your margins. What is off topic. Doesnt all life link ultimately? The stuff you mention, we all have that shit as our baggage. Some admit it, most go cog disso about. As long as we admit flaws, even when we dont see that, we are already far better off than wed be without doing so.



I don't quite understand what you are saying here.
-Saying that when you become you FULLY, the ones who thought they could bully you forever, will realize their calcs were wrong.



I asked this because I wanted to go on a tangent about how emotions effect thoughts and decision making. I'm interested in the subject. I knew that it was just a detail in the point that you were trying to make. Do you know more about this topic?
-I do, but its a sensitive matter, so Ill leave it to the extent of that.



You consider the three traits that I mentioned, bravery, endurance, and loyalty, as the trait of firmness? This shows that there is some subjectivity to which traits are masculine and which are feminine.
-You can define as you consider most appropriate. Thats one intrepretation of them.





If that is what firmness is and it applies to everything, which seems more like how I imagine the definition, then I'm not very strong in the trait of firmness. I'm very indecisive and tend to consider all the possibilities when making a decision. I'm just a skeptical person that questions many things, is uncertain of himself, plus I have trouble concentrating which makes decision making harder. But if your only talking about morality, then I'm somewhat firm, although not as firm as I used to be when I was a child. Also, how come you wont classify the trait of firmness as masculine or feminine?
-I just do dont. A woman taking a bullet for you in battle is equal in value than a man doing so.


In addition to Maslow, based on what I've gleaned from reading about spirituality, there are probably spiritual goals, that vary based on the philosophy, that are valuable to try to attain.
-True deal.

I hope I find someone like that. But I kind of think that those kind of people are mainly found in Japan or other asian countries since anime is make in Japan and based off of asian cultures. I live in North America, although, I'm sure there are some people like that in North America somewhere.
-Youd be amazed.


I've talked with Fennel on Pcafe and she seemed nice and interesting.
-So there we go.

Also, based on your posts to me you it seems like you think that I recently registered at Pcafe but I registered here in 2011. But that is okay, you've been super nice to me in this thread and I really appreciate it.
-Got it. We can live with that.
[/QUOTE]
 
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I think that it is cool that you are knowledgeable about enlightenment and spirituality.
-Others are more.

I consider those topics beautiful and it is always nice to talk to people about them. I know some things about enlightenment and spirituality and these are topics that I like to study.
-Its a lot of power to have. Some use it for the development of the others, others for own pleasure/priviledge seeking. Never are these two mindsets in one single person. We each have our own motives why we study anything at all.

I agree with you that pride, and also the ego, is a hindrance to seeing things for how they really are.
-Feel free to voice that out with max volume.

But what do you mean when you say, "If we ditch pride, the way will be paved all the way up to reason?" Do you mean that all of our faculties will be able to perceive and make sense of the world more clearly, with reason being our highest faculty?
-First yes, latter no. Empathy is more. And then there are others beyond that too, linked to it.

If you mean this, then what other faculties do you include in the list of faculties that would perceive more clearly when pride is let go of.
-humbleness

Also, are you saying that getting rid of pride and becoming enlightened allows one to observe objective reality?
-Oh that word.. its a little bit more than just reason, and that objective reality. Its the ultimate form of altruism.
But first eliberation from sin. Then, merging with love. And then the more.

How is enlightenment far from logic and reason?
-I dont know. I really can not describe it in words. But I can tell you this, as far is reason from shame and suicide. As far it reason from love. And the expansion of counsciouness, from there is like you wanting to want to want to not want to want the wanting of not wanting. Its like a circle.

Why is enlightenment picky about who it chooses to express it? What do you mean when you said "we can't be [enlightened], because we still want something else more than that"?
-Its is, because it excludes the body.

Can you say more about enlightenment?
Yes. Ive met a few now deceased people who were at it, and truly, they desired nothing more of the wordly.
Because where they were invited to, like many of us, the became chosen to.
And one more thing. If I respected you and talked with you, you should respect yourself too about owning being on perc from -11, and also your real personality type.

Its nothing wrong with any of the shit we born with or gather all along. What is wrong is not owning it. Thats where we incline to repeat destructive patterns. Lies are the best foundation for misery. Especially the self deceit we find f.e. on PerC more often than not.

Love / care. Do it for real. And the rest is just nuances. That simple.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
-Never let fear lead you. Always confronting it builds confidence. Confidence based on competence is extremely attractive to women. ALL women.
I have aspergers and mental health problems which makes it hard to connect with people and I have no friends. Also, my mental health issues makes it hard for me to deal with change. This has been a chronic issue that I would have to work on before solving it.

-Your thread, your margins. What is off topic. Doesnt all life link ultimately? The stuff you mention, we all have that shit as our baggage. Some admit it, most go cog disso about. As long as we admit flaws, even when we dont see that, we are already far better off than wed be without doing so.
I want this thread to be about femininity in guys or anything along that line, so I don't want to stray to far from there.

-I do, but its a sensitive matter, so Ill leave it to the extent of that.
How is the topic of how emotions effect thoughts and decision making a sensitive matter?

-You can define as you consider most appropriate. Thats one intrepretation of them.
This brings up the topic of how does one decide if a trait is masculine or feminine? Should you use a biological approach, a sociocultural approach, or another approach? Or maybe somehow gender is illusory and we shouldn't really be talking about masculine and feminine traits, but we should be approaching the issue differently.

-I just do dont. A woman taking a bullet for you in battle is equal in value than a man doing so.
Classifying firmness as masculine or feminine wouldn't change the fact that a man or a woman taking a bullet for you in battle is of equal value.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
-Its a lot of power to have. Some use it for the development of the others, others for own pleasure/priviledge seeking. Never are these two mindsets in one single person. We each have our own motives why we study anything at all.
Why do you say that it is a lot of power to have, in your opinion? Can you say more about how one can't have the two mindsets in one person? It makes me think of how it doesn't seem like it is possible to have an ego and simultaneously be egoless, or go from one to the other in a short period of time.


-First yes, latter no. Empathy is more. And then there are others beyond that too, linked to it.
How does pride diminish the way each of our faculties perceive and make sense of the world? Also, why is empathy our highest faculty instead of reason or something else? Finally, what are the other faculties beyond empathy and linked to it?

-Oh that word.. its a little bit more than just reason, and that objective reality. Its the ultimate form of altruism.
But first eliberation from sin. Then, merging with love. And then the more.
You didn't really answer my question. My question was: "Are you saying that getting rid of pride and becoming enlightened allows one to observe objective reality?"

And what is "the more" that you mentioned. Liberation from sin sounds like a religious interpretation of enlightenment. From a scientific, or psychological perspective, does enlightenment somehow clean your conscience in order to liberate you from sin? And if so, how does this work. Furthermore, can you say more about merging with love, and what that is like?


-I dont know. I really can not describe it in words. But I can tell you this, as far is reason from shame and suicide. As far it reason from love. And the expansion of counsciouness, from there is like you wanting to want to want to not want to want the wanting of not wanting. Its like a circle.
So you are saying that logic and reason is very very far from enlightenment, almost like opposites? Also, I don't get your last two sentences about comparing the expansion of consciousness to a circle.

-Its is, because it excludes the body.
What do you mean when you say it excludes the body?

Also, is that answer a response to both of my questions, asking "why enlightenment is picky about who it chooses", and "what you meant when you said "we can't be enlightened because we still want something else more than that""?

Yes. Ive met a few now deceased people who were at it, and truly, they desired nothing more of the wordly.
Because where they were invited to, like many of us, the became chosen to.
That must have been an amazing experience to meet people that were enlightened. For quite a while, I've wanted to meet people that were enlightened to learn from them. What was it like meeting enlightened people and what did you learn from them? If they didn't desire anything of the worldly, then what did they desire? What do you mean when you posted "because where they were invited to, like many of us, they became chosen to."?

And one more thing. If I respected you and talked with you, you should respect yourself too about owning being on perc from -11, and also your real personality type.

Its nothing wrong with any of the shit we born with or gather all along. What is wrong is not owning it. Thats where we incline to repeat destructive patterns. Lies are the best foundation for misery. Especially the self deceit we find f.e. on PerC more often than not.

Love / care. Do it for real. And the rest is just nuances. That simple.
Thanks for the advice.
 
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Why do you say that it is a lot of power to have, in your opinion? Can you say more about how one can't have the two mindsets in one person? It makes me think of how it doesn't seem like it is possible to have an ego and simultaneously be egoless, or go from one to the other in a short period of time.




How does pride diminish the way each of our faculties perceive and make sense of the world? Also, why is empathy our highest faculty instead of reason or something else? Finally, what are the other faculties beyond empathy and linked to it?



You didn't really answer my question. My question was: "Are you saying that getting rid of pride and becoming enlightened allows one to observe objective reality?"

And what is "the more" that you mentioned. Liberation from sin sounds like a religious interpretation of enlightenment. From a scientific, or psychological perspective, does enlightenment somehow clean your conscience in order to liberate you from sin? And if so, how does this work. Furthermore, can you say more about merging with love, and what that is like?




So you are saying that logic and reason is very very far from enlightenment, almost like opposites? Also, I don't get your last two sentences about comparing the expansion of consciousness to a circle.



What do you mean when you say it excludes the body?

Also, is that answer a response to both of my questions, asking "why enlightenment is picky about who it chooses", and "what you meant when you said "we can't be enlightened because we still want something else more than that""?



That must have been an amazing experience to meet people that were enlightened. For quite a while, I've wanted to meet people that were enlightened to learn from them. What was it like meeting enlightened people and what did you learn from them? If they didn't desire anything of the worldly, then what did they desire? What do you mean when you posted "because where they were invited to, like many of us, they became chosen to."?



Thanks for the advice.
Look. Those are a great deal of questions there. Let time show what resonates with you and what is of another kind.
I hope you get the femininity/masculinity deal clear too, as Im positive Im not the most suitable person to even understand what those are.

So thank you for the chat and I hope you best of health.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Look. Those are a great deal of questions there. Let time show what resonates with you and what is of another kind.
I hope you get the femininity/masculinity deal clear too, as Im positive Im not the most suitable person to even understand what those are.

So thank you for the chat and I hope you best of health.
It was nice chatting with you, but I have one more question. Can I use some of what you posted in this thread for a blog that I'm thinking about starting?
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Any girly boys or girly men want to talk about their experiences? Don't be shy.
 

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Hmmm I'm not sure if I have actual feminine traits in terms of how i conduct myself to other people, I think the way to say it is from a outside perspective when people interact with me I come across as a pretty normal bloke. However internally I guess you could say I value effeminate things? For example with fashion I appreciate beautiful clothing from women that show class and beauty rather that just plain sexy, I sort of appreciate the value of things being pretty rather than just to boost my libido.

I do remember a couple of years back I was literally having this tug of war with conflict of interest my mind whether or not I should embrace more of my masculine traits or feminine ones, I remember the biggest reason why this conflict happened was when my mum caught me cross dressing as a young teenager and she legit thought I was mentally damaged for doing so and I felt great shame about it too.
But at the same time I knew I was definately heterosexual yet I seem to have this liking for cute and pretty things, but at the same time I also like things such as robots, FPS games, cars etc.

I think these days I sort of try to split it 50/50, because I acknowledge I have both in me and I think as a result of being more true to myself I found interacting with people much easier and making friends to be far more organic.

Not sure if my experience is the type of thing you mean, but I will say that this caused me a great deal of stress and identity crisis until i got help a few years back.
 

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I am a woman that was always a tomboy. My mom tried to push me towards the feminine activities but rather than playing with dolls I would build houses and furniture for them and rather than gossiping with girl friends I would be climbing trees and visiting old basements with their brothers. I was also always looking at my dad when he was doing house tasks (I considered "helping mom" a punishment but whatever dad was doing seemed interesting) and I developed similar personality as him, just a little bit nicer because he is nuts, lol.

I am not sure about feminine/masculine personality traits though. I seem to have a mix of all of them.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Hmmm I'm not sure if I have actual feminine traits in terms of how i conduct myself to other people, I think the way to say it is from a outside perspective when people interact with me I come across as a pretty normal bloke. However internally I guess you could say I value effeminate things? For example with fashion I appreciate beautiful clothing from women that show class and beauty rather that just plain sexy, I sort of appreciate the value of things being pretty rather than just to boost my libido.
So what you are saying is that you don't have feminine mannerisms or behavior, but you have some feminine interests?
What other feminine things do you value?
A taste for style and prettiness is a good thing. I think that it shows that you look beyond what is physically there and see more to things.

I do remember a couple of years back I was literally having this tug of war with conflict of interest my mind whether or not I should embrace more of my masculine traits or feminine ones, I remember the biggest reason why this conflict happened was when my mum caught me cross dressing as a young teenager and she legit thought I was mentally damaged for doing so and I felt great shame about it too.
But at the same time I knew I was definately heterosexual yet I seem to have this liking for cute and pretty things, but at the same time I also like things such as robots, FPS games, cars etc.
I'm sorry about your moms reaction to your crossdressing. People should be free to express themselves however they want regardless of gender, as long as they aren't hurting anyone. You don't have to say more, but ff you don't mind sharing, what was your crossdressing experience and your moms reaction to it like? I've also crossdressed once, although it was after the suggestion of my sister and her friend when I was about 8 years old. My mom also had a very negative reaction to my crossdressing.


I think these days I sort of try to split it 50/50, because I acknowledge I have both in me and I think as a result of being more true to myself I found interacting with people much easier and making friends to be far more organic.

Not sure if my experience is the type of thing you mean, but I will say that this caused me a great deal of stress and identity crisis until i got help a few years back.
I think that all people should incorporate both the feminine and masculine into themselves in order to be balanced, so it sounds like you are doing the right thing.

If you don't mind sharing, what was your identity crisis like and how did you get help for it. I've also struggled with my identity several times in my life.
 

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I don't consider myself a feminine man per se, but I've always had qualities that are commonly associated with femininity. Most notably, I'm what is sometimes called a "highly sensitive person", which was especially noticable when I was a kid because I would easily get overwhelmed by emotions and sensory stimuli, and would react by hiding/running away or crying. Took me a while to really settle into myself on an emotional level, and ultimately it wasn't until my early 30s that I finally got some peace of mind. That had other causes as well, but the high sensitivity certainly didn't help.

As far as other people's reactions go... I don't know why but people always kind of accepted me with all my peculiarities. I did try to hide it and play the cool stoic rebel without a cause type kid during my teens, and while I did look really cool with my leather jacket and everything, I don't think I ever truly fooled anyone into believing I wasn't a giant softy XD Now I always felt like an outsider, but people generally were nice to me, girls liked me, I got invited me to parties etc. so whatever unhappiness I had during that time (and there was plenty of that) it wasn't for a lack of acceptance by my peers. It was more the sense that I didn't fit into the world at large or something, like the whole system just wasn't suitable for people like me. TBH it still kind of feels like that sometimes.

Not sure what else to say so here's a video that might be relevant to the topic of femininity in men.

 

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So what you are saying is that you don't have feminine mannerisms or behavior, but you have some feminine interests?
What other feminine things do you value?
A taste for style and prettiness is a good thing. I think that it shows that you look beyond what is physically there and see more to things.



I'm sorry about your moms reaction to your crossdressing. People should be free to express themselves however they want regardless of gender, as long as they aren't hurting anyone. You don't have to say more, but ff you don't mind sharing, what was your crossdressing experience and your moms reaction to it like? I've also crossdressed once, although it was after the suggestion of my sister and her friend when I was about 8 years old. My mom also had a very negative reaction to my crossdressing.




I think that all people should incorporate both the feminine and masculine into themselves in order to be balanced, so it sounds like you are doing the right thing.

If you don't mind sharing, what was your identity crisis like and how did you get help for it. I've also struggled with my identity several times in my life.
Yeah pretty much just means I have a appreciation for beauty and pretty things rather than just sexy, I wouldn't say I'm actively into feminine things other than crossdressing where I think about it more in terms of what makes someone look beautiful. But it also influences how I sort of do creative artwork stuff and have a bit more appreciation when women have 'girls' talks about these things .
I think overall I don't lean into it too hard I try to keep a almost 50/50 split between my interests of masculine and feminine.

Ah sorry to hear about your experience man, its such a shame that is such a frowned upon thing in society. I think the best way to describe my mums reaction was that she was worried that I had a 'damaged' mind for crossdressing. I distinctively remember she said that if i keep doing it I'll 'break'. She was also worried that I was either gay or wanting to be transgender.
Either way it wasn't a great experience for both of us. She caught me another one or two times but luckily she was kind enough to not mention it to other familly members. So its just between me and her.

This was many years ago and so if she asks i just say i don't do it just to ease her mind.
 

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So I consider myself to be a feminine man and I was a feminine boy growing up. I want to know what other feminine boys or men's life experiences, which you think were effected by your femininity, have been like from childhood to adulthood. Specifically, things like how being feminine made things tougher for you, how it made things easier for you, how it made things different for you, how it effected the people that you became friends with, how it effected dating, how it effected the way you view the world, if you like being feminine or if you would prefer being more masculine, did you purposefully try to make yourself more feminine or more masculine, and things like that. I think that it is important to focus on childhood signs of femininity because I believe that personality traits are more telling of your genetic makeup when you are younger before other things start effecting how you behave.

I'm also interested in how feminine you all think that you are.
I'll start by saying a little about myself. I consider myself quite feminine because I'm very low in aggression, very low in sex drive, I didn't like to wrestle or play in rough ways as a child, I enjoyed making up stories with my sister about romance between cartoon characters, I was scared of bugs as a child and I still am, I was very attached to my mother as a child, I was a fearful child, I was gentle and overly nice sometimes as a child, I enjoyed acting goofy and silly as a child and had a silly feminine sense of humor, I found babies really cute and funny as a child, I was a pacifist as a child, I was very sensitive and insecure as a child and as a teen, I avoided conflict, I watched girly tv shows as a child like The Amanda Show and The Powerpuff Girls, I like listening to girly singers like Britney Spears and Ariane Grande, and I think that as a child and now I just gave off a vibe of being this timid feminine type of person.

My most masculine traits are my narcissism, part of this is due to me having aspergers and having dealt with several traumatic experiences as a child which I had to cope with, and my competitiveness.
Compared with whom?
 
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Discussion Starter #39
I don't consider myself a feminine man per se, but I've always had qualities that are commonly associated with femininity. Most notably, I'm what is sometimes called a "highly sensitive person", which was especially noticable when I was a kid because I would easily get overwhelmed by emotions and sensory stimuli, and would react by hiding/running away or crying. Took me a while to really settle into myself on an emotional level, and ultimately it wasn't until my early 30s that I finally got some peace of mind. That had other causes as well, but the high sensitivity certainly didn't help.
I'm also a highly sensitive person. About a couple months ago I finished reading the book "The highly sensitive person" by Elaine Aron which I'd recommend to any HSP. It explained some of my feminine HSP traits that I have, like my voice increasing in pitch when I'm excited or scared, extreme shyness as a child, getting my feelings hurt easily, and my rare but fairly strong emotional outbursts. Why do you think that being an HSP makes you have qualities associated with femininity? Also, what are the qualities that you have which are associated with femininity? Could you say more about what it was like for you to be emotional as a child?

I think that it is interesting that you associate being an HSP with femininity. I'm interested in psychology and terms such as introversion vs extraversion, femininity vs masculinity, thinking vs feeling, HSP/empath vs psychopath, and other seemingly dichotomies. These terms bring up a lot of associations and its fun to see how people sometimes equate them with other terms that explain certain aspects of them. For example, I've seen autism explained as extreme introversion and also explained as a masculine brain. Anyway, that was just a tangent that I felt was necessary to go on.

As far as other people's reactions go... I don't know why but people always kind of accepted me with all my peculiarities. I did try to hide it and play the cool stoic rebel without a cause type kid during my teens, and while I did look really cool with my leather jacket and everything, I don't think I ever truly fooled anyone into believing I wasn't a giant softy XD Now I always felt like an outsider, but people generally were nice to me, girls liked me, I got invited me to parties etc. so whatever unhappiness I had during that time (and there was plenty of that) it wasn't for a lack of acceptance by my peers. It was more the sense that I didn't fit into the world at large or something, like the whole system just wasn't suitable for people like me. TBH it still kind of feels like that sometimes.

Not sure what else to say so here's a video that might be relevant to the topic of femininity in men.

You said you tried to hide your nature, so were you ashamed of your feminine traits or your HSP traits?
Why did you feel like you didn't fit into the world?
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Yeah pretty much just means I have a appreciation for beauty and pretty things rather than just sexy, I wouldn't say I'm actively into feminine things other than crossdressing where I think about it more in terms of what makes someone look beautiful. But it also influences how I sort of do creative artwork stuff and have a bit more appreciation when women have 'girls' talks about these things .
I think overall I don't lean into it too hard I try to keep a almost 50/50 split between my interests of masculine and feminine.
I've also started to develop, or rediscover, an appreciation for beauty, but mainly in terms of natural beauty like sunsets, the moon, blue skys, grey skys, and things like that. By appreciating beauty and pretty things, do you mean just clothing or also other things? Also, do you still crossdress? I've always found it funny and cute when anime characters crossdress, and the idea of genderbending for either gender interests me. If I had progressive friends I would consider crossdressing and maybe trying on makeup and trying on different outfits.

What do you think makes someone look beautiful?
Omg, I've always been fascinated by girl talks. Girls seem to have so much fun when they have their girl talks. I was never good at talking to girls when I was in high school and college, so I didn't talk to girls much then, but in high school I would overhear their conversations and they seem so cool. What are girls talks like?
 
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