I have no idea what society thinks. I would imagine it would vary depending on whom you asked. Just get in where you fit in, and screw the rest. As for your girl, use your own smarts to figure that one out. MB is a very unwieldy tool when making such important decisions. :wink:
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This is very interesting, because I think that due to the constructs of society, there are usually common differences between the genders of all 16 types. I don't know much about the details of the other types, but I really think there is a difference between male and female ISFJ's in general...at least in how they are perceived, if nothing else.
I'm definitely in the "both" category. Most people usually find me awkward at first, but once they get to know me they view me as diligent and trustworthy, and my employers almost always think that. Of course, when people get to know me really well, they start seeing how truly weird I am.
And definitely, ISFJ traits are traditionally/stereotypically feminine. Being quiet, not causing commotion, putting others before yourself...we're almost like early 20th century house-wives.
This does present some awkwardness and difficulty for a male ISFJ. I know that I don't expose my full self to people until I really trust them. It's funny, because think ISFJ females are like that too, but I don't think they have to compensate for it as much. For me, I find myself kind of putting on an act more...especially in the E and T categories. A few people have told me they would have thought I'd be a thinker (even my own mom thought that, though she's an ISTJ), even though I view myself as a strong feeler (though I have good logical ability, I think).
It's funny, too...I don't mean to stereotype or bash, but it seems like almost always when another type on PerC complains about an ISFJ, they're usually talking about a female. I think there are some logical reasons for this: (a) there are more female ISFJ's, so they're more likely to encounter them. (b) People may mis-type ISFJ males as being ISTJ's, due to both their perception and due to an ISFJ male hiding his feeling side more. (c) A female ISFJ may feel more comfortable with her traits, so she may not keep them in control or in check as much as an ISFJ male would.
But I just seem to read more problems people have on PerC about ISFJ mothers, girlfriends, and female friends. Of course ISFJ males have most of the same issues, and like I said, the three reasons I listed above point to why you don't hear about issues with ISFJ's males as much. But I find it interesting that I end up giving advice to people about how to deal with an ISFJ female when it's possible that the girl is different than I am in ways I can't even imagine. Of course, when I start reading, I see so much of myself in the person who's being described, so I can't help myself to jump in. Besides, as an ISFJ, I love helping people!
But people just view me as a nice guy, even if I'm somewhat quiet and reserved. I get along really easily with most girls, though I usually fall into the friend zone all of the time. I'm cool with that, though...I don't need a relationship right now. But I usually feel like I'm in the little brother role to most of them.
It's tougher for me around guys, since I usually have to hide my feeling side more. Of course, if I'm around more feeling type males, it's easier. But around thinking males I usually hide my sensitivity and stick to subjects that are "tougher", like work, sports, or intellectual subjects. Once I get to know a guy a lot more and get to talk individually, I open up about more sensitive type things, and it usually goes pretty well.
So like Trigun said, it can be tough being an ISFJ male, but it's cool...I like being a nice guy, and sometimes you do feel a little more unique. I also like feeling "soft and cuddly" sometimes, though it's much easier on PerC, where I can avoid the consequences of RL. I think being an ISFJ male gives me a decent balance of soft sentimentality and cool logic and defined structure.
Yet again, Trigun hits the nail on the head. You have a knack for doing that with ISFJ related stuff! You know our type really well, I think.
I'm definitely in the "both" category. Most people usually find me awkward at first, but once they get to know me they view me as diligent and trustworthy, and my employers almost always think that. Of course, when people get to know me really well, they start seeing how truly weird I am.
And definitely, ISFJ traits are traditionally/stereotypically feminine. Being quiet, not causing commotion, putting others before yourself...we're almost like early 20th century house-wives.
This does present some awkwardness and difficulty for a male ISFJ. I know that I don't expose my full self to people until I really trust them. It's funny, because think ISFJ females are like that too, but I don't think they have to compensate for it as much. For me, I find myself kind of putting on an act more...especially in the E and T categories. A few people have told me they would have thought I'd be a thinker (even my own mom thought that, though she's an ISTJ), even though I view myself as a strong feeler (though I have good logical ability, I think).
It's funny, too...I don't mean to stereotype or bash, but it seems like almost always when another type on PerC complains about an ISFJ, they're usually talking about a female. I think there are some logical reasons for this: (a) there are more female ISFJ's, so they're more likely to encounter them. (b) People may mis-type ISFJ males as being ISTJ's, due to both their perception and due to an ISFJ male hiding his feeling side more. (c) A female ISFJ may feel more comfortable with her traits, so she may not keep them in control or in check as much as an ISFJ male would.
But I just seem to read more problems people have on PerC about ISFJ mothers, girlfriends, and female friends. Of course ISFJ males have most of the same issues, and like I said, the three reasons I listed above point to why you don't hear about issues with ISFJ's males as much. But I find it interesting that I end up giving advice to people about how to deal with an ISFJ female when it's possible that the girl is different than I am in ways I can't even imagine. Of course, when I start reading, I see so much of myself in the person who's being described, so I can't help myself to jump in. Besides, as an ISFJ, I love helping people!
Yeah, that sounds like me growing up, though I think the first set of descriptions currently fits me much more than the second set. I think the key thing is getting past that first impression. I've also done my best to just try and relax when meeting new people, it's helped a lot. As hard as it is, I try not to care about coming across as goofy or stupid, because I've had tons and tons of people tell me that they viewed me as much more awkward before they got to know me because I never talked. I think when I just let me be my goofy, weird self, people like it a lot more. I just get scared to show that at first because I think people will find me stupid.Trigun64 said:
But people just view me as a nice guy, even if I'm somewhat quiet and reserved. I get along really easily with most girls, though I usually fall into the friend zone all of the time. I'm cool with that, though...I don't need a relationship right now. But I usually feel like I'm in the little brother role to most of them.
It's tougher for me around guys, since I usually have to hide my feeling side more. Of course, if I'm around more feeling type males, it's easier. But around thinking males I usually hide my sensitivity and stick to subjects that are "tougher", like work, sports, or intellectual subjects. Once I get to know a guy a lot more and get to talk individually, I open up about more sensitive type things, and it usually goes pretty well.
So like Trigun said, it can be tough being an ISFJ male, but it's cool...I like being a nice guy, and sometimes you do feel a little more unique. I also like feeling "soft and cuddly" sometimes, though it's much easier on PerC, where I can avoid the consequences of RL. I think being an ISFJ male gives me a decent balance of soft sentimentality and cool logic and defined structure.
I'm Christian as well. I think it's very appealing to ISFJ's. I won't go into the details, and I'm sure there are ISFJ's of all religions and backgrounds, but I find that it makes a lot of sense for an ISFJ to be a Christian.
I mentioned this a little in my last post, which I typed before I read this. It can be frustrating at times, and I think it happens to ISFJ guys a lot. But for me, I'm fine without a girlfriend right now, so it doesn't bother me...and sometimes it feels good to be the guy that girls come to when they're tired of dealing with the jackass boyfriend.kamuixlegacy said:
Teddy, thanks for the input. I just read a book called wild at heart, I think you would enjoy it a lot. It talks about a mans heart and what it is to be a man, with Gods intentions (Christian book but also good pick me up =)) I am not saying that you need the book, but I feel it really reinforces what you were saying and would enjoy the read =)I mentioned this a little in my last post, which I typed before I read this. It can be frustrating at times, and I think it happens to ISFJ guys a lot. But for me, I'm fine without a girlfriend right now, so it doesn't bother me...and sometimes it feels good to be the guy that girls come to when they're tired of dealing with the jackass boyfriend.
Too add a bit, I feel the idea of a 'nice guy' has been warped by society way too much. Society has taken us to being overly sensitive and emotional, as well as dull and boring. They basically are saying that nice guys are not men, we are women in sheep's clothing. I would like to state that I really think the bases to who people are is being hurt by how society as a whole is making them see themselves. We, as males, are made and wired to be wild and scruffy and strong. That does not mean we don't feel, and just because we (ISFJ's) feel more then other guys, does not make us less of Guys! If anything it means we are more connected with ourselves, and know not only how to feel, but how to approach others when they are feeling and unsure how to handle it. We are in this way, I feel, stronger then most men! Now I don't want to imply that we are superior to others, because that would untrue..but our contribution to the male community is very important and needed in society
God made us the way we are, and knows how to use us as we were meant to be!
I looked at the synopsis of the book on Amazon, as well as a few of the reader comments. I don't know if it would be something for me. I think the main problem is something that one of the user comments pointed out, and that's that the author seems to ignore different temperaments and make it seem like all men should be the same way. And the way described struck me as much more SP-ish, with all of the adventure seeking. I won't go into the huge detailed theological thing here (that would probably be better for a PM conversation), but even in Christianity, I don't feel as though all people, or all men in this case, have to be the same. Each person has been given different talents and strengths, and each can serve a different purpose. That's not to say that people can't work on their weak areas.Teddy, thanks for the input. I just read a book called wild at heart, I think you would enjoy it a lot. It talks about a mans heart and what it is to be a man, with Gods intentions (Christian book but also good pick me up =)) I am not saying that you need the book, but I feel it really reinforces what you were saying and would enjoy the read =)
Too add a bit, I feel the idea of a 'nice guy' has been warped by society way too much. Society has taken us to being overly sensitive and emotional, as well as dull and boring. They basically are saying that nice guys are not men, we are women in sheep's clothing. I would like to state that I really think the bases to who people are is being hurt by how society as a whole is making them see themselves. We, as males, are made and wired to be wild and scruffy and strong. That does not mean we don't feel, and just because we (ISFJ's) feel more then other guys, does not make us less of Guys! If anything it means we are more connected with ourselves, and know not only how to feel, but how to approach others when they are feeling and unsure how to handle it. We are in this way, I feel, stronger then most men! Now I don't want to imply that we are superior to others, because that would untrue..but our contribution to the male community is very important and needed in society
I've struggled throughout my life accepting myself for who I am rather than trying to be who others think I should be, and it's only in the last few years or so that I've grown to achieve that, and I'm still working on it. Again, there's nothing wrong with expanding my horizons from time to time, and to improve weak areas of mine, but the key thing is to accept myself for who I am. I believe God makes everyone the way they're meant to be, and the MBTI contributes to that. I don't think there's one set model for everything in a person's life. I feel it's okay for me to be sensitive, it's okay for me to not need to go out and experience these big time adventures like SP's do.
I'm certainly not "wild, scruffy and strong" for the most part. Like one user comment said on the book, the author should keep in mind that not everyone is an "Esau", that there are "Jacob's" too. I don't believe that all men need to be the same way or serve the same role, even if there are some similarities.
So I agree with you in some ways and disagree in others. There's a chance you might even be an ISFP, and you also said you were pretty close along the T and F line. But that's just my take on the whole thing. :happy:
That actually sounds very ISFJish, it's the way I usually am in a group. If you read my comments about the guy that Verbrand was talking about, the key thing is that this guy sounded very immature. Because he didn't know what he was doing, he felt insecure and took a leadership role he wasn't equipped for, thus hurting the whole group.
ISFJ's are much better at carrying out orders and pleasing authority. It may not sound impressive or glamorous, but it is definitely needed and thankfully sometimes it's very much appreciated.
Besides, constantly apologizing is an ISFJ thing too.
You sound like an ISFJ to me, though that's just my humble opinion.That actually sounds very ISFJish, it's the way I usually am in a group. If you read my comments about the guy that Verbrand was talking about, the key thing is that this guy sounded very immature. Because he didn't know what he was doing, he felt insecure and took a leadership role he wasn't equipped for, thus hurting the whole group.
ISFJ's are much better at carrying out orders and pleasing authority. It may not sound impressive or glamorous, but it is definitely needed and thankfully sometimes it's very much appreciated.
Besides, constantly apologizing is an ISFJ thing too.
You're probably right:wink:. But I think for now, I think I am going to place my status as "Unknown." For some reason it's more comfortable to me. I think I'll be putting up more posts in both the ISFJ and ISFP sections (Possibly :tongue
, if you guys don't mind.And speaking about apologizing, my mother thought it was an accursed Korean influence.:laughing:
Yeah, I forgot that ISFP's may tend to be even more anti-groupwork than ISFJ's. I just think ISFP's tend to do their own thing more often, whereas ISFJ's look to serve and please other people. So I forgot about that, ISFP might work for you too.You're probably right:wink:. But I think for now, I think I am going to place my status as "Unknown." For some reason it's more comfortable to me. I think I'll be putting up more posts in both the ISFJ and ISFP sections (Possibly :tongue
And speaking about apologizing, my mother thought it was an accursed Korean influence.:laughing:
But that's fine, ISFP's are cool! I just don't know any in RL, though I'd like to meet some. :happy:
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