Are ISFJ's the typical male to get caught in the "friend zone?" That has happened to me quite a lot growing up. Being what people call the 'nice guy,' had its rough spots in relationships growing up, but really is blooming for me now that I have found what it is to be a man (which doesn't require me to be a jackass =)) Nice guys really do finish first in the end =)many people consider me the nicest guy they know, the friend they turn to talk about problems, etc haha i pretty much fit the stereotypical isfj categories haha
Yet again, Trigun hits the nail on the head. You have a knack for doing that with ISFJ related stuff! You know our type really well, I think.Well, people generally see you one of two ways: Diligent and Trustworthy or Awkward and Weird, and sometimes both. It really depends on your settings and what not.
Statistically, Females are the majority of ISFJ's, and ISFJ's mentality can be seen by some as stereotypical feminine behavior. There are other types out there with similar problems, such as INFPs.
Society generally sees us as needing to be more out going, and more willing to think about ourselves mostly.
Yeah, that sounds like me growing up, though I think the first set of descriptions currently fits me much more than the second set. I think the key thing is getting past that first impression. I've also done my best to just try and relax when meeting new people, it's helped a lot. As hard as it is, I try not to care about coming across as goofy or stupid, because I've had tons and tons of people tell me that they viewed me as much more awkward before they got to know me because I never talked. I think when I just let me be my goofy, weird self, people like it a lot more. I just get scared to show that at first because I think people will find me stupid.Trigun64 said:I mostly grew up with very few close friends. I was friends with almost everybody, had friends from all the different clicks in school, and everybody knew who I was, but I was not popular. I was simply me, Dependable, Trustworthy, Smart, and Nice. Currently, I am seen as Foolish, Repetitive, Slow, and Distant. Its all about perspective and what environment you are in. First impressions, much to my dismay, are also very important, especially to ISFJ's. Since we generally lack the force of personality to change peoples opinion about us, the way people think we are can become very deep rooted.
All in all though, I like being and ISFJ. The Lord made me as He did for a reason. ^_^
I'm Christian as well. I think it's very appealing to ISFJ's. I won't go into the details, and I'm sure there are ISFJ's of all religions and backgrounds, but I find that it makes a lot of sense for an ISFJ to be a Christian.I feel I have a similar childhood. In middle school everyone thought I was weird, and I only have a couple very close friends. In high school I had one, maybe 2 real friends. I did however get along with everyone. All the groups knew who I was and they would chat with me if they felt they had the time of day sort of deal. And the Lord has been working through me a lot lately, glad to see a web page that doesn't shun the Christian male for being who he is meant to be, 'wild at heart' and true to God!=)
I mentioned this a little in my last post, which I typed before I read this. It can be frustrating at times, and I think it happens to ISFJ guys a lot. But for me, I'm fine without a girlfriend right now, so it doesn't bother me...and sometimes it feels good to be the guy that girls come to when they're tired of dealing with the jackass boyfriend.kamuixlegacy said:Are ISFJ's the typical male to get caught in the "friend zone?" That has happened to me quite a lot growing up. Being what people call the 'nice guy,' had its rough spots in relationships growing up, but really is blooming for me now that I have found what it is to be a man (which doesn't require me to be a jackass =)) Nice guys really do finish first in the end =)
Teddy, thanks for the input. I just read a book called wild at heart, I think you would enjoy it a lot. It talks about a mans heart and what it is to be a man, with Gods intentions (Christian book but also good pick me up =)) I am not saying that you need the book, but I feel it really reinforces what you were saying and would enjoy the read =)I mentioned this a little in my last post, which I typed before I read this. It can be frustrating at times, and I think it happens to ISFJ guys a lot. But for me, I'm fine without a girlfriend right now, so it doesn't bother me...and sometimes it feels good to be the guy that girls come to when they're tired of dealing with the jackass boyfriend.
I looked at the synopsis of the book on Amazon, as well as a few of the reader comments. I don't know if it would be something for me. I think the main problem is something that one of the user comments pointed out, and that's that the author seems to ignore different temperaments and make it seem like all men should be the same way. And the way described struck me as much more SP-ish, with all of the adventure seeking. I won't go into the huge detailed theological thing here (that would probably be better for a PM conversation), but even in Christianity, I don't feel as though all people, or all men in this case, have to be the same. Each person has been given different talents and strengths, and each can serve a different purpose. That's not to say that people can't work on their weak areas.Teddy, thanks for the input. I just read a book called wild at heart, I think you would enjoy it a lot. It talks about a mans heart and what it is to be a man, with Gods intentions (Christian book but also good pick me up =)) I am not saying that you need the book, but I feel it really reinforces what you were saying and would enjoy the read =)
Too add a bit, I feel the idea of a 'nice guy' has been warped by society way too much. Society has taken us to being overly sensitive and emotional, as well as dull and boring. They basically are saying that nice guys are not men, we are women in sheep's clothing. I would like to state that I really think the bases to who people are is being hurt by how society as a whole is making them see themselves. We, as males, are made and wired to be wild and scruffy and strong. That does not mean we don't feel, and just because we (ISFJ's) feel more then other guys, does not make us less of Guys! If anything it means we are more connected with ourselves, and know not only how to feel, but how to approach others when they are feeling and unsure how to handle it. We are in this way, I feel, stronger then most men! Now I don't want to imply that we are superior to others, because that would untrue..but our contribution to the male community is very important and needed in society God made us the way we are, and knows how to use us as we were meant to be!
I had an ISFJ as a group member (we didn't choose groups). He took "command" of the group and would constantly ask me what he should do(he took a folder that was crucial to the project, and he wouldn't hand it over). He didn't know what he was doing, and everything he did was wrong. This folder that he kept was the only reason we needed him in the group.
In the end, my ESFP partner and I decided to blow off the final project. The ISFJ was infuriated after the project and said "I told you guys" and got angry and sat down. The only thing he told us was that he was an arrogant person who wouldn't hand over that dumb folder so we could get everything done with perfect results.
That right there is a huge problem for an ISFJ working in a group, I think. Here's the way I picture functioning.Verbrand said:He didn't know what he was doing, and everything he did was wrong.
I am impressed that you are able to pick up on so many conversations. My memory is pretty good with details and such, but I have a hard time listening to many conversations. I am usually the quiet one in large groups because I have nothing to focus my attention on. Happens though! thanks for your input, very interesting/good stuff!Since I also have a habit of listening to several conversations in a room at once, and speaking loudly across the room with some sought after piece of information, I can be seen as very spooky. I don't help that spooky image when I remember the details of something they shared with me weeks ago, or get them something before they know they need it.
Speaking about wishing you were a girl, my xxTJ sister wished she was a boy when she was younger. :tongue:One of the reasons I didn't like working with partners on a project is because I saw them as threats to my own ideas. They usually get sidelined or get deemed unnecessary or not worth the struggle. At the same time, I like to know exactly what I should be doing. Exploring is difficult, but when it comes to creative free writing assignments, I love them because I have in my head an exoskeleton of a story involving objects that I value.
I find it interesting that many ISFJs here have adopted the Christian faith. I asked ages ago "So can I talk to an angel?" The short answer of course was no. Then I concluded that I can't believe in this monotonous religion (OK, it was Catholicism) because there was no proof of God's existence or of his supernatural servants. Such a sensor conclusion in my opinion.
More on track with the topic, I've been told that I fight like a girl and a year ago at one of my jobs, I was told by another employee that I work like one too. Of course, I was offended at the time. I should've responded to either of those situations "Then girls must be pretty smart at what they do."
One of the things that you have to consider though is that the socially acceptable masculine man may use logic and rational reasoning more and less with feelings, but the truth is, all of these men have feelings. ISTJs I think have as many feelings as ISFJs do, but they are all internalized. Hence their tertiary function which is Fi. ISFJs I think are much more expressive about their feelings I think because they are reactive to the harmony originating from the outside world.
Quite honestly, I talk about beating certain people up, fighting back. I even oppose the concept of pacifism, but my own reasoning for that larger concept requires more abstraction. A lot of this aggressive thinking though is due to bringing justice to people that have intentionally tried to hurt others and hurt them for their own selfish reasons. That's why I get upset when customers tell me I shouldn't be at my position in my job because I can't process math problems quick enough in my head. It reminds me of those bad guys putting others down!
I often think my personality would do better in a girl's body. At one point, I must have wished I was a girl...
That actually sounds very ISFJish, it's the way I usually am in a group. If you read my comments about the guy that Verbrand was talking about, the key thing is that this guy sounded very immature. Because he didn't know what he was doing, he felt insecure and took a leadership role he wasn't equipped for, thus hurting the whole group.Also after reading yours and teddy's posts, I feel that I'm most probably not an ISFJ. I think my most instinctual response when in a group project is have someone else be the leader, and I do the work told because I have no idea which way to take the project(or take the part of the group work with the least work). (I'm saying instinctual because this is the way I'm most comfortable not the way I want to be). Of course it may be related to enneagram type too. And, I still have no idea what type I am...
That actually sounds very ISFJish, it's the way I usually am in a group. If you read my comments about the guy that Verbrand was talking about, the key thing is that this guy sounded very immature. Because he didn't know what he was doing, he felt insecure and took a leadership role he wasn't equipped for, thus hurting the whole group.
ISFJ's are much better at carrying out orders and pleasing authority. It may not sound impressive or glamorous, but it is definitely needed and thankfully sometimes it's very much appreciated.
Besides, constantly apologizing is an ISFJ thing too. You sound like an ISFJ to me, though that's just my humble opinion.
Yeah, I forgot that ISFP's may tend to be even more anti-groupwork than ISFJ's. I just think ISFP's tend to do their own thing more often, whereas ISFJ's look to serve and please other people. So I forgot about that, ISFP might work for you too.You're probably right:wink:. But I think for now, I think I am going to place my status as "Unknown." For some reason it's more comfortable to me. I think I'll be putting up more posts in both the ISFJ and ISFP sections (Possibly :tongue, if you guys don't mind.
And speaking about apologizing, my mother thought it was an accursed Korean influence.:laughing: