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Discussion Starter #1
From the title, I know that most you understand what I'm talking about.
I'm a straight guy and I'm not religious, so I'm not implying that I do not enjoy sexy models.

What I want to know is, what do you think about being a sexy model?
(lingeries, swimsuit, cover girls, gadget girls, auto show girls, miss universe, and many other modeling that is using sexy woman as a model).

Don't you think all of them are just selling their sexuality? Although it will result in selling a product, or a lifestyle. But, c'mon what they sell is not what they really sell, it's their sexuality. Well, yes people will buy a good product, and those who are targeting the product will buy it regardless of whether there's any sexy woman who advertise for the product.

I've been looking at lingerie and swimsuit models.. Well, in reality these clothes are not bought to fulfill their utility function. But, it's to give the feeling and sensation of their sexuality by wearing it.

I'm just saying that there's no difference between a porn star, stripper, cover girls, lingeries, swimsuit models, and even Miss Universe! All of them are selling their sexuality (camouflaged in terms of "beauty and brain" if we're talking about Miss Universe).

All of these ways by consumer industry or even Miss Universe to get around a law regarding pornography (for those places where porn is illegal) are just bullshit. :laughing:
 

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I'm a straight guy and I'm not religious, so I'm not implying that I do not enjoy sexy models.
So if you are a straight guy, you have to find models sexy, and if you are religious you aren't allowed to - wat?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
So if you are a straight guy, you have to find models sexy, and if you are religious you aren't allowed to - wat?
Whoever said otherwise? Does saying I love computers and I'm a nerd implies that a nerd have to love computers? Then, if I'm not a nerd, I'm not allowed to love computers.

That's not the point of the discussion.
 

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I'm prostituting my brains and my values at my job. I think very highly of those who get by by just prostituting their bodies.

Being a model: A way to sell your sexuality while still having dignity
I don't see how being a prostitute is not a dignified profession.
 

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I don't see how being a prostitute is not a dignified profession.
Then you are an idiot. I am sorry, but such a claim with no arguments is utterly dissrespectful to both genders.
Any profession that serves the community can be seen as dignified, especially the really important ones(like garbage men :)).
But that is not a profession you enjoy, its a profession you are forced into. Actually dont call it a profession, call it desperation.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I don't see how being a prostitute is not a dignified profession.
You don't see, and some others don't see it too. But, there are those who see it that way.
If you're saying that being a prostitute, porn star or a stripper is a dignified profession. Why people are so worried about it?

How much honor given to these people by the society, compared to for example: a President? Lawyers? Soldiers? CEOs?

You know how advertising a product using naked babies are somehow "fine", but if it's done by nude women, then suddenly the underage aren't allowed to see it?

Victoria Secret is somehow viewed as glamorous and they surely have dignity (we're talking about popular perception). But, what's wrong with strippers? Porn Stars? or prostitutes who even did their job in private, not showing themselves much in public.

B.S. It's all about money, branding, and how you repackage the showcase of your sexuality. If it's more "physical", then it's less appropriate for the average perception.

Playboy girls are somehow more exclusive and respected than just porn stars or strippers.
 

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Whoever said otherwise? Does saying I love computers and I'm a nerd implies that a nerd have to love computers? Then, if I'm not a nerd, I'm not allowed to love computers.

That's not the point of the discussion.
Idk.. structure your sentences to be more coherent?
 

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Hm....I wear lingerie (bras & panties are in that category) and swimsuits, as do most women. They seem to function just fine for me :laughing:

I think if a model is truly modeling something (ie. clothes), then it's totally legit to me. Sure, a sexy image may be involved, but that's advertising. It plays on basic desires in people. Sex is obviously a great seller because they keep using it. They might stop using it if we stop buying it... I don't think profiting off of your sexy image is the same as profiting off of selling your actual body in sex though. One is an impression given of a quality, the other is actually engaging in a sexual act. The line is blurred with pin-up types, as their image is less to sell than to be sold, but even still, they are not engaging in a sex act. I might consider them akin to strippers. I do see porn-esque images used to sell clothes at times (ie. American Apparel), and here I think a line is blurred also. I think lumping all sexy models together this way is inaccurate though. I don't think all are selling their body in the way you suggest, even if some are.

I don't think sexiness in itself is bad or a even a bad thing to aspire to (although I'm not keen on a sexy look for myself), but I do think it is overvalued. Appearance in general is overvalued. I don't think models are to blame....they are not the ones coming up with the ad ideas, marketing the products, designing the clothes, etc. I think the ones who take jobs which blur the lines could be furthering a standard that is low, but I think some responsibility is on the part of the consumer also.
 
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From the title, I know that most you understand what I'm talking about.
I'm a straight guy and I'm not religious, so I'm not implying that I do not enjoy sexy models.

What I want to know is, what do you think about being a sexy model?
(lingeries, swimsuit, cover girls, gadget girls, auto show girls, miss universe, and many other modeling that is using sexy woman as a model).


Don't you think all of them are just selling their sexuality? Although it will result in selling a product, or a lifestyle. But, c'mon what they sell is not what they really sell, it's their sexuality. Well, yes people will buy a good product, and those who are targeting the product will buy it regardless of whether there's any sexy woman who advertise for the product.
I'm going to give a big resounding "No duh" seeing as that is one of the basics of advertising 101: sex sells. While it's true most faithful consumer of products will keep on buying regardless of whether or not there is suggestive nudity in ads, companies also want to continuously attract new clientele, and while it may seem crude, putting a semi-naked female in a suggestive pose beside whatever it is you're trying to sell, is the quickest and most sure-fire way to get people's attention, and increase potential new customers. I don't think most of these women, take these kinds of jobs because they want to sell their sexuality, but rather, because it's just something to get some quick cash, and is easy to do. I mean really, you don't need any real technical skill to wear almost nothing, and pose suggestively.The fact that they come off sexual (which by the way, is designated by the director of the shoot who already has the vision of "sexy" in mind) is just a side part of the gig.

I'm just saying that there's no difference between a porn star, stripper, cover girls, lingeries, swimsuit models, and even Miss Universe! All of them are selling their sexuality (camouflaged in terms of "beauty and brain" if we're talking about Miss Universe).
There is a world's difference between the examples you just gave out.

A porn star has sex with other pornographic actors on film.
Strippers remove their clothing and dance provocatively.
Cover girls simply just pose on the cover of magazines and have spreads inside the magazine. Depending on the magazine, these spreads be range from more artistic and tasteful (Vogue, Elle, W) to more sexual and crass (Playboy, Penthouse).
Lingerie/swimsuit models again just simply model underwear and swimsuits.
Miss Universe contestants, just walk around look pretty, and show off some talent.

While they might all utilize their sexuality, the degree in which they do so varies very much, from each example given. Take the porn star and stripper, who sell nothing BUT sexuality, with the porn star more so, because they actually engage in sexual acts. A model who is on the cover of Vogue is more about selling material products than sex, and most high fashion models don't even fit the typical conventions of attractions (how guys do you know, that are attracted to 5'9-6'0 tall 120-135 lbs women, who are mostly lanky and have a boyish built?). On the other extreme, a Playboy cover girl is selling a more explicit version of sexuality as the Vogue cover girl, but not as much as the porn star because she's not actually engaging in a live sexual act, yet still exudes overt sexuality.


You don't see, and some others don't see it too. But, there are those who see it that way.
If you're saying that being a prostitute, porn star or a stripper is a dignified profession. Why people are so worried about it?
Because of society's warped issues with sex, sexuality, and gender. The sexual revolution may be over and finished, but society as a whole is still learning how to deal with its implications, and the fact that the professions you just listed, are still seen as controversial today just proves that, most individuals have no idea were they stand when it comes to sex, who should be doing it, what are its limits, and the ethics of paying people for sex. Hell even I'm split in the middle when it comes to these issues, and depending on which side you're taking it from I can be both against and for prostitution/stripping/being a porn star.

How much honor given to these people by the society, compared to for example: a President? Lawyers? Soldiers? CEOs?
People have less problems with presidents and CEO's because these careers embodies ideal traits that society deems as good such as leadership, courage, ambition, and the like. These are traits that society are unambiguous about, while the sex industry pretty much encapsulate everything mainstream society is confused about i.e. everything to do with sex and sexuality.


Victoria Secret is somehow viewed as glamorous and they surely have dignity (we're talking about popular perception). But, what's wrong with strippers? Porn Stars? or prostitutes who even did their job in private, not showing themselves much in public.

B.S. It's all about money, branding, and how you repackage the showcase of your sexuality. If it's more "physical", then it's less appropriate for the average perception.

Playboy girls are somehow more exclusive and respected than just porn stars or strippers.
Victoria Secret models being seen as more acceptable in mainstream society than porn star and strippers is just one example of how society contradicts itself when it comes to sex and sexuality (especially women's sexuality). While porn stars and strippers as I mentioned earlier are selling a more overt type of sexuality, there's also no denying that V.S. models also exude sexuality that titillate. The fact that mainstream media is willing to deem one OK while the other is pornographic and therefore unacceptable, pretty much just sums up my argument of how mainstream culture, has no idea of the handle issues of sex and sexuality, thereby constantly contradicting itself when defining what is acceptable and what is not, in terms of sex in pop culture.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Idk.. structure your sentences to be more coherent?
What exactly is your problem?

"I am a nerd and I love computers. So, by discussing the problematic life of a computer geek, I don't imply that I don't enjoy computers."

Would that sentence provoke your defense mechanism?
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
The common idea in both answers.

While they might all utilize their sexuality, the degree in which they do so varies very much, from each example given. Take the porn star and stripper, who sell nothing BUT sexuality, with the porn star more so, because they actually engage in sexual acts.
At what point does "selling sexuality" is considered as dignified as selling a product or a lifestyle "using sexuality" ?

I really don't have the data to compare the financial gain from "selling a product/lifestyle using sexuality" vs "selling sexuality itself".

If selling sexuality doesn't make money, then it would be reasonable to assume that selling sexuality is similar to an unskilled labour like a maid, cleaning service guy, etc. In this case, selling sexuality is even more a problem, just like how being a drug dealer is a problem in the society.

But, if we could create a multi-billion dollar industry by selling sexuality, and maintain a level of "exclusivity". In other case, if it's done in a way to provide knowledge, this is somehow fine. So, I assume this is the "only" point, right?
 

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Then you are an idiot. I am sorry, but such a claim with no arguments is utterly dissrespectful to both genders.
Any profession that serves the community can be seen as dignified, especially the really important ones(like garbage men :)).
But that is not a profession you enjoy, its a profession you are forced into. Actually dont call it a profession, call it desperation.
Well, it's really nice that people with a different opinion are idiots. I used to know a prostitute, and she enjoyed her profession. Enjoyed the money and the freedom. Mind you, I live at a place where prostitution is legal. Not all, or even not most, people are forced into it, at least not here.
 

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Sexuality is the thing itself.
We are sexuality. We are that good.
I want to be a model. End of the story.
 

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Well, it's really nice that people with a different opinion are idiots. I used to know a prostitute, and she enjoyed her profession. Enjoyed the money and the freedom. Mind you, I live at a place where prostitution is legal. Not all, or even not most, people are forced into it, at least not here.
Yep, that is how it works in these cases. Its not a matter of opinion only, like i like this or that, but it is based on exploitation. Maybe you can not see that any act a person makes has a reason behind it and as such you can not define it in a vacuum. It may seem a bit much for your preety little head, but if something is legal, it is still not legitimate and vice versa.
 

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What exactly is your problem?

"I am a nerd and I love computers. So, by discussing the problematic life of a computer geek, I don't imply that I don't enjoy computers."

Would that sentence provoke your defense mechanism?
No defense. Just pointing out how it came off. The entire thing is barely coherent really. Trying to read between the lines and assume your point is a waste of time because you can just say "no thats not what I meant" - which keeps anyone from cornering any point you make.
 

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Yep, that is how it works in these cases. Its not a matter of opinion only, like i like this or that, but it is based on exploitation. Maybe you can not see that any act a person makes has a reason behind it and as such you can not define it in a vacuum. It may seem a bit much for your preety little head, but if something is legal, it is still not legitimate and vice versa.
Wake me up when you can behave more maturely than a 13-year old, stop being abusive to people with a different opinion, and actually have an argument, OK?
 

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Wake me up when you can behave more maturely than a 13-year old, stop being abusive to people with a different opinion, and actually have an argument, OK?
Haha like thats ever going to happen(the growing up thing, i actually have an awesome argument, but i think you will need to visit some antrophology classes to even get what is going on)!

In any case, any discussion would probably be more fit elsewhere and not on a personal level. As such, i wish you a good day sir.
 

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The common idea in both answers.

At what point does "selling sexuality" is considered as dignified as selling a product or a lifestyle "using sexuality" ?

There are different ways of selling sexuality and the lifestyle of sexuality from classy to crass. Are you trying to say that the average person automatically thinks that someone who sells sexuality, is not dignified? Some individuals, as myself, see nothing wrong with selling sex/sexuality regardless of how crass it is, as long as everyone involved consented to it.



If selling sexuality doesn't make money, then it would be reasonable to assume that selling sexuality is similar to being an unskilled labour like a maid, cleaning service guy, etc. In this case, selling sexuality is even more a problem, just like how being a drug dealer is a problem in the society.
If sexuality doesn't make money then it would be nowhere near similar to unskilled labour, because at least being a maid and a cleaning service guy get paid. Hell, even drug dealers get paid, so I don't know what you're trying to get at.

But, if we could create a multi-billion dollar industry by selling sexuality, and maintain a level of "exclusivity". In other case, if it's done in a way to provide knowledge, this is somehow fine. So, I assume this is the "only" point, right?
For the most part, selling sexuality is already a multi-billion dollar industry when you look at how it's being used in advertising, movies, television, the sex industry, and fashion. And sexuality already has a level of exclusivity, if you look at the women used to portray said sexuality. They all tend to fall within certain aesthetic standards that dictate, what is considered sexually attractive for mainstream audience. It's only when you venture outside pop culture, that you see a larger range of women represented as sexually attractive.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
No defense. Just pointing out how it came off. The entire thing is barely coherent really. Trying to read between the lines and assume your point is a waste of time because you can just say "no thats not what I meant" - which keeps anyone from cornering any point you make.
You really have a problem with that. If you don't, you would either ignore it entirely, or you will discuss other things beyond that introduction.

You're still defending yourself. Claiming that it's a waste of time to read, doesn't contribute to the argument at all. How can you communicate with anyone comfortably if you don't want to accept corrections from the other party? Even for the things that they're trying to say?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Are you trying to say that the average person automatically thinks that someone who sells sexuality, is not dignified? Some individuals, as myself, see nothing wrong with selling sex/sexuality regardless of how crass it is, as long as everyone involved consented to it.
Well, are you an average person? In my own eyes, you're not.
Anyway that's not the point of the question, and actually it's already answered here:

They all tend to fall within certain aesthetic standards that dictate, what is considered sexually attractive for mainstream audience. It's only when you venture outside pop culture, that you see a larger range of women represented as sexually attractive.
These aesthetic standards are the only thing that maintained the level of dignity.

If sexuality doesn't make money then it would be nowhere near similar to unskilled labour, because at least being a maid and a cleaning service guy get paid. Hell, even drug dealers get paid, so I don't know what you're trying to get at.
I know that. "It doesn't make money" is somewhat too exaggerated, but lots of people say it all the time if they make a little amount of money compared to high-paying jobs. Drug dealer makes quite a lot of money, although not all of them. But, they are not as respected as selling sexuality in the consumer industry.
 
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