[Yann]

Discuss this - Is There Anything Good About Men


One of best explanations about men x women ive ever read ... explains a lot for me as male INFP ... ie. explains why i fail as man in society Lot of those things said that makes a sucessfull man ... iam not.

 

[Halcy0n]

Please don't say that you fail as a man...it's society that fails. What is gender? As far as I'm concerned, gender shouldn't matter any farther past the type of genitals you have, if even that. What the hell is up with all of these standards that are set for men and women? I think that they're bullcrap.

INFP men, you are amazing. Don't ever change!

And everyone else - don't let gender standards stop you from liking what you truly like!

 

[Yann]

well its not about what i think ... its about what society thinks ... and i can blame society whatever i like but this doesnt change the fact that i fail hard at life ... its either become a man or die somewhere lonely xD society doesnt like weaklings, nobody cares about emotionality and shit ... thats all one huge bullcrap ...

be INFP dreamer oh yes, but also be independent, make money, stand for yourself and for others, have a good looks, show strong will etc etc

just be pure INFP guy ... thats just wrong ... iam one ... and it sucks 21 yrs, no girl, no school, no friends, no future ... just dreamin yay xD i dont wanna hear any "be yourself" again ... thats just simply not true ... and iam not by any means sceptical now or ranting ... everybody is yaying for staying the way we are, yet still nothing changes, it ends with encouragments, in real life nobody will love u just the way u are ... if that happens ... its 1:1 000 000 ... i had friend, girl i loved deeply for 4yrs ... and she ended up dating my "best friend" ... thats reality ... guy takes what he wants ... ... so instead of fluffy cherishing for INFP males ... i would encourage them to find strenght to pull together their asses and find ability to be compatible with this world ... cos world isnt gonna change for you ... i wouldnt care much about losing INFPness ... cos that one is one of a hell ressilient trait.

 

[vel]

It also explains why in families sons get favored over daughters. A son can go and have dozens of children by different women and greatly reproduce his parents' genes. A daughter can only have 10-20 children, that is if she lives through all the births at that. If you read books like The Selfish Gene it starts to make perfect sense why male children have always been favored over female children.

 

[Lad]

well its not about what i think ... its about what society thinks ... and i can blame society whatever i like but this doesnt change the fact that i fail hard at life ... its either become a man or die somewhere lonely xD society doesnt like weaklings, nobody cares about emotionality and shit ... thats all one huge bullcrap ...

be INFP dreamer oh yes, but also be independent, make money, stand for yourself and for others, have a good looks, show strong will etc etc

just be pure INFP guy ... thats just wrong ... iam one ... and it sucks 21 yrs, no girl, no school, no friends, no future ... just dreamin yay xD i dont wanna hear any "be yourself" again ... thats just simply not true ... and iam not by any means sceptical now or ranting ... everybody is yaying for staying the way we are, yet still nothing changes, it ends with encouragments, in real life nobody will love u just the way u are ... if that happens ... its 1:1 000 000 ... i had friend, girl i loved deeply for 4yrs ... and she ended up dating my "best friend" ... thats reality ... guy takes what he wants ... ... so instead of fluffy cherishing for INFP males ... i would encourage them to find strenght to pull together their asses and find ability to be compatible with this world ... cos world isnt gonna change for you ... i wouldnt care much about losing INFPness ... cos that one is one of a hell ressilient trait.

Seems like you're your own worst enemy. However, it's said that you need to respect your enemy as they are the first person to know your faults.

I can relate in some respects to what you're saying and I do understand for the most part. One thing you may want to consider is trying to take charge of your life instead of living under someone else's thumb. I used to try to conform to everything and try to fit in, but you'll never be FULFILLED by faking things. If anything, it's very draining.

Acknowledge that you are different, but that different can be a good thing. Some of the most brilliant minds in history are different and that's why they stand out. In my eyes, it's better to stand out for your unique traits than to fit in, but be lost within the crowd.

As for girls, most of the boring ones have the stereotypical tastes, but the ones of substance, the ones you'd actually want to keep, will be attracted to you because you're not typical. You offer them something that other people cannot.

I used to be paranoid about what people thought about me and, like you said, it's never just about "being yourself." What if that's wrong though? What if you can be yourself and still do well?

My advice to you is to dive head first into your weaknesses. I was always wondering what people thought and it made me ridiculously shy and self conscious. What did I do about it? I took behavioral psychology where I can read mannerisms and link behaviors that I see. With that in mind, it means I can manipulate my own actions to either flirt with some girl, or see if someone is not receptive towards me. In the end, I'm my own boss.

On top of all that, I've come to realize that virtually everyone is self conscious, everyone is scared of something. Most people aren't confident. You know what's funny though? People are attracted to the qualities they usually don't have within themselves. I can go up and make a presentation to the class and be completely full of shit, not knowing what I'm talking about. At the end of it I'll get the oogly eyes from the ladies and a teacher that just nodded in agreement with most of the things I said.

Believe in yourself and acknowledge that you deserve to exist. No one is better than you, unless you lower yourself down beneath them.

 

[Yann]

Seems like you're your own worst enemy. However, it's said that you need to respect your enemy as they are the first person to know your faults.

I can relate in some respects to what you're saying and I do understand for the most part. One thing you may want to consider is trying to take charge of your life instead of living under someone else's thumb. I used to try to conform to everything and try to fit in, but you'll never be FULFILLED by faking things. If anything, it's very draining.

Acknowledge that you are different, but that different can be a good thing. Some of the most brilliant minds in history are different and that's why they stand out. In my eyes, it's better to stand out for your unique traits than to fit in, but be lost within the crowd.

As for girls, most of the boring ones have the stereotypical tastes, but the ones of substance, the ones you'd actually want to keep, will be attracted to you because you're not typical. You offer them something that other people cannot.

I used to be paranoid about what people thought about me and, like you said, it's never just about "being yourself." What if that's wrong though? What if you can be yourself and still do well?

My advice to you is to dive head first into your weaknesses. I was always wondering what people thought and it made me ridiculously shy and self conscious. What did I do about it? I took behavioral psychology where I can read mannerisms and link behaviors that I see. With that in mind, it means I can manipulate my own actions to either flirt with some girl, or see if someone is not receptive towards me. In the end, I'm my own boss.

On top of all that, I've come to realize that virtually everyone is self conscious, everyone is scared of something. Most people aren't confident. You know what's funny though? People are attracted to the qualities they usually don't have within themselves. I can go up and make a presentation to the class and be completely full of shit, not knowing what I'm talking about. At the end of it I'll get the oogly eyes from the ladies and a teacher that just nodded in agreement with most of the things I said.

Believe in yourself and acknowledge that you deserve to exist. No one is better than you, unless you lower yourself down beneath them.

yep thats true ... i didnt meant to fake personality for outside world ... just to be strong for outside world ... which i think is struggle for INFPs ... and again by strong i dont mean showing of ... but to be confident, have willpower etc ... simply just being capable of doing things you want to do ... which again i think we tend to just think and not act .... being confident INFP male is okay with me ... but i guess it only comes with a hard work ... thats what i wanted to say ... that to stay yourself puts us too much into comfort zone of "okay, iam fine"

 

[white-knuckle]

Success, stability, and follow through are just the bread and butter. Empathy, compassion, understanding, and love is really what makes a woman swoon. As long as you can be somewhat stable and frugal, I'd say most INFP males are very appealing. I have been in the "bread and butter" relationship. With a person with a working foresight towards money. It is nice but it just is kind of empty. A woman really wants to just be seen and heard. Many men fail miserably at this, which would explain all the lonely, undelighted women out there. To not be noticed and heard is a pitiful existence.

I have noticed INFP men might get a slow start in relationships. Might be overlooked and stomped apon a bit. But women will notice your worth, theyll come around, besides your just looking for one woman anyways, right?

Just be confident in what you are. Resign in knowing your not going to be Mr. Rich guy, and just concentrate on your skill set to an extent, and be frugal in what you do earn.

Chin up! My favorite people in the whole world are INFP guys! So, keep being you! Everyone in the world has need of improving. And it takes a while to get it right, and to get in the daily life routine, but youll get the hang of it.

 

[CrusaderOfTheHeart]

well its not about what i think ... its about what society thinks ... and i can blame society whatever i like but this doesnt change the fact that i fail hard at life ... its either become a man or die somewhere lonely xD society doesnt like weaklings, nobody cares about emotionality and shit ... thats all one huge bullcrap ...

be INFP dreamer oh yes, but also be independent, make money, stand for yourself and for others, have a good looks, show strong will etc etc

just be pure INFP guy ... thats just wrong ... iam one ... and it sucks 21 yrs, no girl, no school, no friends, no future ... just dreamin yay xD i dont wanna hear any "be yourself" again ... thats just simply not true ... and iam not by any means sceptical now or ranting ... everybody is yaying for staying the way we are, yet still nothing changes, it ends with encouragments, in real life nobody will love u just the way u are ... if that happens ... its 1:1 000 000 ... i had friend, girl i loved deeply for 4yrs ... and she ended up dating my "best friend" ... thats reality ... guy takes what he wants ... ... so instead of fluffy cherishing for INFP males ... i would encourage them to find strenght to pull together their asses and find ability to be compatible with this world ... cos world isnt gonna change for you ... i wouldnt care much about losing INFPness ... cos that one is one of a hell ressilient trait.

I mainly agree - being a 'soft' or 'indecisive' man just annoys the hell out of women. They don't want to make decisions or think too much to be honest. INFP men HAVE to find their inner strength and more importantly express it
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[Acey]

we're all just running around in circles. There is nothing we can do to change ourselves. We are stuck with the personality that we were given and no amount of self-loathing and force can change this. People suggest that we try to accept and love ourselves since we cannot change. We can't do this either, because how we judge ourselves is 100% dependent on how others judge us, and since "society" judges us poorly, how can we ever think differently about ourselves than those around us? We give people's opinions too much credit, and our opinions are based on their opinions because simply put, we have no opinion. We are just observers of human interaction and human nature and we cultivate our opinions/biases on social norms and social appropriateness, not from our own values. We are shape shifters that just put on a cheap act for others so we can feel some degree of acceptance, but people see through it, and so do we.

So what do we do? stuck with our unchanging self, shunned by most everyone around us, and unable to rid the guilt and shame of our cowardly self because we will rather die trying to change than give self acceptance a second thought because it means defeat. It means we gave up on the dream that one day we can be truly desired by someone, and that is something none of us are willing to give up, even if it means a life-time of self hatred in some futile attempt to force a self revelation.

 

[Goosefish]

Why is everyone talking about 'society'?

Society is not a living thing. Society is only a construct.

All groups of people are made up of individuals. Focus on the individuals. If the individuals in a group will accept you, then the group will accept you too, and society will change.

We will stress ourselves out if we spend our whole lives worrying over things that we can't, won't, or don't want to change. Just do your own thing. Don't spend your time on the people who won't accept you. Your worth doesn't depend on what other people think of you. Make an effort. Know your strengths and when and how to use them. Decide who you want to be and then be that person.

And we'll screw up sometimes, but life would be boring if we didn't. :happy:

No one can live up to somebody's idea of what a man or a woman should be. Why would you want to? Just imagine what a person who could would be like! I don't want to be defined by my gender. The strongest people I know aren't the stereotypical man or woman or whatever else. Just do what you think is right at the moment, make mistakes, learn from your mistakes, feel happy sometimes, feel depressed sometimes...

If we stick to our decisions and, at the same time, be open to changing them if we find out that we are wrong, then we can be strong.

 

[BrooklynBoy]

Success, stability, and follow through are just the bread and butter. Empathy, compassion, understanding, and love is really what makes a woman swoon. As long as you can be somewhat stable and frugal, I'd say most INFP males are very appealing. I have been in the "bread and butter" relationship. With a person with a working foresight towards money. It is nice but it just is kind of empty. A woman really wants to just be seen and heard. Many men fail miserably at this, which would explain all the lonely, undelighted women out there. To not be noticed and heard is a pitiful existence.

I have noticed INFP men might get a slow start in relationships. Might be overlooked and stomped apon a bit. But women will notice your worth, theyll come around, besides your just looking for one woman anyways, right?

Just be confident in what you are. Resign in knowing your not going to be Mr. Rich guy, and just concentrate on your skill set to an extent, and be frugal in what you do earn.

Chin up! My favorite people in the whole world are INFP guys! So, keep being you! Everyone in the world has need of improving. And it takes a while to get it right, and to get in the daily life routine, but youll get the hang of it.

I'm an older INFP and I have found, over the years, the above post to be right on as to what women look for in a man. Notice how she focuses on empathy, compassion, and understanding. Aren't INFPs described as having those qualities? So you are there already, aren't you?

A lot of what society demands, or expects, from a man could be said to fall into the Te cognitive function. If it really bothers you that much (I'm addressing this to the poster who started the thread) that you lack in the qualities that seem to go along with the Te function, you can develop that function. What might help you is the book 8 Keys To Self-Leadership by Dario Nardi . Each chapter is devoted to very detailed descriptions of the 8 cognitive functions, and, shows how one could develop that particular function, if they so desire. For example, in the chapter devoted to Te (extraverted thinking) there is a detailed description of Te, followed by two case studies which illustrate Te in action, followed by exercises for developing Te, if one is interested. It is divided into 3 exercises: the introductory, basic, and advanced exercises. Now, this is not saying that you should do this. It is just a suggestion. The author is not saying that you will become an STJ by developing Te. You will still be an INFP, but, an INFP who will be able to use Te, when needed. For example, in the corporate world. Dario Nardi's point is that all of the types have access to all of the cognitive functions. Each type can develop a function for use, when needed, without changing their type.

I, personally, have not found that being an INFP has held me back socially or professionally. I have always had things to work on. But, then so does everyone else...........no matter what type they are. Every type has their strong points and their shortcomings. If you were to change your type for the purpose of getting rid of your shortcomings, due to what you percieve as being the fault of your type, then all you accomplish is to exchange one set of weaknesses for another set. And, on top of that, you won't even be happy because you are not being yourself.

I have found the following to be an excellent description of the strong points, and shortcomings, of an INFP. You might want to read it --> http://personalitycafe.com/infp-articles/21683-infp-you-introverted-feeling-type.html

Hope this helps.

 

[A Better Tomorrow]

Brooklynboy, I can't help but notice anytime an INFP says they have a career....what do you do?

 

[Yann]

Actually i must thank all of you now properly ... ive never read that much usefull info in one thread.

I must admit it was a bit of rant ... i actually cracked up a bit cos of my new work ... its tough physical work. And LOL its been only several days and it made me feel pretty bad cos i have now almost none time left of a day and that feels bad ... i always had a at least choice of starting to live social and do stuff and whatever .. altought i was making my progress reaaaally slow ... but now even not that, made me realize i must change. I just must stop care about million things and be proudly myself ... cos now i realized ... i just simply wont be having a time and energy for undeveloped/hiding INFP lifestyle ... i could have live sort of lonely off the internet ... but like iam i getting older, its harder and harder ... and i guess my soul demands more vivid life now

i dunno ... i always lacked motivation for life, for right to be happy ... i just didnt see the reason, i didnt find my own joy worth trying, not interesting ... everybody does that ... (u know i could use a joy, but it was not worth the effort xD) ... i wanted to explore, uncover, or improve somebodyelses lifes ... nothing serious like that never showed up ... (so so far i spend my life with learning million "stuff" that hasnt lead yet to anything good) ... iam not sure if i can describe what changes i can feel in the air now ... but ... as cold as it sounds ... its maybe just a matter of survival ... dunno ............ well words doesnt matter ... i just wanna make things my own way now ... Thanks!

PS also just watched "American Beauty"

 

[BrooklynBoy]

Brooklynboy, I can't help but notice anytime an INFP says they have a career....what do you do?

I am now disabled, but, before that I did software technical support in the mainframe industry for many years. I started out in development but found I enjoyed the problem solving part of the industry more. Most of the people I worked with were NTs. I only knew one other NF. He was an INFP. We had no problem working with the NTs.

I realize that last part about the NTs was unsolicited. Just thought I'd throw that in in case anyone was wondering.

 

[gloosle]

that was a great and interesting article, and oddly enough after I read it, in one of my classes (psychology of love) we started going over some of the david buss stuff. great correlation which is always interesting.

anyways, over all I agree with it. and yes, according to the dominant culture in the US, we can easily be considered "man fails". Yet here we are. the article argues that only the WINNERS survive (referring to the males at least). clearly, us INFP's can win. I've taken my fair share of risks in life, I can say that.

and...what some of the other posters have mentioned...the ladies look for everything that we have to offer. empathy, caring, love, trust, fun, sense of humor, desire for a deeper connection, not caring about the small shallow social stuff. ladies like that. so according to the male part of culture, we are failures. but ask the ladies and I'd be they'd disagee:wink:

 

[OmarFW]

we're all just running around in circles. There is nothing we can do to change ourselves. We are stuck with the personality that we were given and no amount of self-loathing and force can change this. People suggest that we try to accept and love ourselves since we cannot change. We can't do this either, because how we judge ourselves is 100% dependent on how others judge us, and since "society" judges us poorly, how can we ever think differently about ourselves than those around us? We give people's opinions too much credit, and our opinions are based on their opinions because simply put, we have no opinion. We are just observers of human interaction and human nature and we cultivate our opinions/biases on social norms and social appropriateness, not from our own values. We are shape shifters that just put on a cheap act for others so we can feel some degree of acceptance, but people see through it, and so do we.

So what do we do? stuck with our unchanging self, shunned by most everyone around us, and unable to rid the guilt and shame of our cowardly self because we will rather die trying to change than give self acceptance a second thought because it means defeat. It means we gave up on the dream that one day we can be truly desired by someone, and that is something none of us are willing to give up, even if it means a life-time of self hatred in some futile attempt to force a self revelation.

The Cure For Involuntary Self-Deprecation - PersonalityCafe

 

[somethingami]

The good? Well I speak for myself on this. I find myself to be EXTREMELY loyal? Extremely prone to helping and putting others before myself. Honest. Ummm some other stuff :blushed:
The bad? SUPER low self ESTEEM! Ummm more other stuff
>Inability to get the girls I like<
My advice to you: There's plenty of stuff that others may see in you that you don't. Most of the time I feel worthless and that everything I always started, I let go. That all my talent that I could have had was wasted. That someone would be better off living my life instead. But it's mostly your low self esteem that's bringing you down. Just keep moving forward. There's plenty of things that you should be proud of.
Anything good about men?! Just as many as good in women! Myriads upon COUNTLESS MYRIADS!

 

[infpblog]

i dunno ... i always lacked motivation for life, for right to be happy ...

In reading that article, here's the main point it was trying to make "Maybe the differences between the genders are more about motivation than ability."

And then the rest of the article goes into examples to support that idea.


Here's what I got out of it:

Maybe the difference between personality types are more about motivation than ability.


INFPs want to play the game of life their way, by their rules and then whine when society doesn't reward them for it. INFPs aren't motivated to play the games that the current system (ie society in a first world country) has created.

www.infpblog.com/being-infp/you-are-what-you-believe/


There's absolutely nothing wrong with making up your own definitions of success, what it means to be male or female or anything else for that matter. INFPs are great at making our own rules.

The problem is that we want society and everyone else to play along. Society has Games and Rules for which it will reward you. If you make up own Game with your own rules than you will have to reward yourself.

The happiest INFPs have learned to reward themselves instead of waiting for society or the outside world to do it for them.

 

[BrooklynBoy]

In reading that article, here's the main point it was trying to make "Maybe the differences between the genders are more about motivation than ability."

And then the rest of the article goes into examples to support that idea.


Here's what I got out of it:

Maybe the difference between personality types are more about motivation than ability.

Yes, that is correct. It is not about abilities. Carl Jung, the author of temperament types, was referring to attitudes, or motivations, not abilities.

 

[duck]

The happiest INFPs have learned to reward themselves instead of waiting for society or the outside world to do it for them.

That's it, and you wanna know something else?

You wouldn't even like the rewards that society would give you if you played along, anyway.