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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, so one thing I'm really good at is engaging and connecting with others on a personal level, a lot of it has to do with being able to focus and connect on their specific experiences. For someone I've just met I have no problem completing their thoughts, getting them to open up, and having them say by the end of the conversation, "you really understand me". Which is a great thing in business, and when networking, but it is nothing short of a burden in my romantic life.

See, people are so excited that I "get" them they just assume the reason I understand them so well is because we were made for each other. I don't know where, or how they make that leap, but they do it. And the next thing I know they've created this flawless image of someone who's supposed to be me, and they're telling me I'm perfect, and they love me, and it's so clear they don't even know me. It's scary, and frustrating, because it's not really me they enjoy. I don't know, it keeps happening, so it must be something I'm doing..right?

Anyone with experience in being treated like this, or treating someone like this?
 
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They (don't ask me who the fuck "they" is) say that there are two kinds of sexists:

Those who believe every woman is beneath them
And those who believe every woman is a goddess

I'm paraphrasing here but you get the concept.

I think this whole idea can be expanded to say that people who put another person on a pedestal is almost dehumanizing them a bit. Nobody deserves that kind of adoration.


It's happened to me a couple times myself, and it honestly seemed rather selfish on their behalf.

I felt super uncomfortable about the entire affair, though don't know how they wanted me to respond---Oh wait! That's right. They don't really care! Because when you put somebody on a pedestal, it will become all about you more often than not.

It's more that they like the idea of you and don't even treat you as an actual person.
 

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I personally crush the pedestal by randomly being more human to them, like.. if they think I'm the nicest person on Earth I'd rant about how stupid everyone is, or if they think I'm cool I suddenly go on about weird Science stuf- err.. uhh... not be cool somehow.., if they think I'm hot I do that one thing people do where they tuck their chin in to make a double chin while making random animal noises, all the chizz.

Anyways, better to destroy the pedestal, being a mentor/weird thing people orbit around is just a bit much.
 

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This seems to be a problem with being very adaptable socially, don't forget being yourself. If others can't see you for who you are because you're distancing yourself, they'll fill in the gaps themselves. Also, people who are idealistic want to be understood and loved by someone, and will try to find this in others almost desperately. Sometimes it matches reality, other times not.
 

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I'm going to guess your type as an Fe dom 2...a lot of people of course are going to feel excited about meeting a person they are attracted to who has high interpersonal intelligence and of course would choose to take it personally unless they are 1. Old and wise 2. Suspicious of all menz 3. Not that into you.

You are going to have to make it clear. My ESFJ ex apparently had this problem, and he was a 3w2. He was a total dick, he called them "fans"...i think his E3 slight narcissistic tendencies made it necessary for him to clarify he was a star to his fans and I was special to be with him and everyone is jealous of us, he said. He scared me at first, and he loved me because I didn't react to his twinkle and dazzle as expected. Romantic love is largely illusion, lies and competition. The way you snag someone is sadly not usually the way you keep them. My ex was crazy and abusive, btw. Hahaha to all those fans.

I don't know what to tell you bro. It's like being good in bed or being exceptionally good looking. You have to handle it.
 

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This seems to be a problem with being very adaptable socially, don't forget being yourself. If others can't see you for who you are because you're distancing yourself, they'll fill in the gaps themselves. Also, people who are idealistic want to be understood and loved by someone, and will try to find this in others almost desperately. Sometimes it matches reality, other times not.
Well here's the thing...in our culture, these sorts of men are a real breath of fresh air because they seem relationship oriented. So of course women who want a relationship may idealize someone who seems so...girl like, for lack of a better term. If he does not seem "feminine" and is not gay, it is actually not that far fetched for a woman to presume he's just this amazing soul mate of a person. Trust me, Fe men are very easy to date for this reason. My ESFJ ex terrified me at first with his smiling old world Euro trash behavior, hugging me, kissing me, calling me his girl, making me cups of tea and showing me Dario Argento films after we had dinner with his mother. I should have went with my gut instinct and stayed away, but anyway he chased me and we had good sexual chemistry, and I liked his art house trashy films, and honestly it became diffIcult after a while to leave him, even when he acted psychotic, because he was just so darn thoughtful. How many women would kill for a man who is a morning person himself to hang black curtains because he knows you like to sleep in, and calls them pet names and likes to cuddle.

I actually wonder how manipulative the OP is and if he uses it to get sex. Some guys use the intimacy angle to build false trust so they can get laid. It's a game like any other, so I wonder how much the OP really is a "victm" of his own charm. It crossed my mind that he possibly just doesn't like consequences.

On the other hand if these are mainly crushes that random girls or platonic friends get with him, then I guess I could see it.

Or maybe the women really are over idealizing him. That happens with any infatuation or romantic love. ....but maybe he's unconsciously seeking needy girls who decide he's perfect way too fast. In my experience, women may like to be put on a pedastal, some women anyway, but guys seem turned off by it, like all the challenge has been taken away.
 

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They (don't ask me who the fuck "they" is) say that there are two kinds of sexists:

Those who believe every woman is beneath them
And those who believe every woman is a goddess

I'm paraphrasing here but you get the concept.

I think this whole idea can be expanded to say that people who put another person on a pedestal is almost dehumanizing them a bit. Nobody deserves that kind of adoration.


It's happened to me a couple times myself, and it honestly seemed rather selfish on their behalf.

I felt super uncomfortable about the entire affair, though don't know how they wanted me to respond---Oh wait! That's right. They don't really care! Because when you put somebody on a pedestal, it will become all about you more often than not.

It's more that they like the idea of you and don't even treat you as an actual person.
You missed the third kind of sexist. The man who thinks certain unobtainable women are goddesses but treats the women who actually put up with him like garbage. I think it's a form of the Madonna Whore complex, or maybe it's just a sign of a person who hates themselves and hates anyone who loves them and admires people who don't.

Btw, the OP appears to be a man.
 

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You missed the third kind of sexist. The man who thinks certain unobtainable women are goddesses but treats the women who actually put up with him like garbage. I think it's a form of the Madonna Whore complex, or maybe it's just a sign of a person who hates themselves and hates anyone who loves them and admires people who don't.
Btw, the OP appears to be a man
No, I know.

I was just adhering to the original saying.
 

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Well here's the thing...in our culture, these sorts of men are a real breath of fresh air because they seem relationship oriented. So of course women who want a relationship may idealize someone who seems so...girl like, for lack of a better term. If he does not seem "feminine" and is not gay, it is actually not that far fetched for a woman to presume he's just this amazing soul mate of a person. Trust me, Fe men are very easy to date for this reason. My ESFJ ex terrified me at first with his smiling old world Euro trash behavior, hugging me, kissing me, calling me his girl, making me cups of tea and showing me Dario Argento films after we had dinner with his mother. I should have went with my gut instinct and stayed away, but anyway he chased me and we had good sexual chemistry, and I liked his art house trashy films, and honestly it became diffIcult after a while to leave him, even when he acted psychotic, because he was just so darn thoughtful. How many women would kill for a man who is a morning person himself to hang black curtains because he knows you like to sleep in, and calls them pet names and likes to cuddle.

I actually wonder how manipulative the OP is and if he uses it to get sex. Some guys use the intimacy angle to build false trust so they can get laid. It's a game like any other, so I wonder how much the OP really is a "victm" of his own charm. It crossed my mind that he possibly just doesn't like consequences.

On the other hand if these are mainly crushes that random girls or platonic friends get with him, then I guess I could see it.

Or maybe the women really are over idealizing him. That happens with any infatuation or romantic love. ....but maybe he's unconsciously seeking needy girls who decide he's perfect way too fast. In my experience, women may like to be put on a pedastal, some women anyway, but guys seem turned off by it, like all the challenge has been taken away.
I don't think this whole phenomenon is related to gender. I actually recognize my ENFJ ex-girlfriend in both your descriptions and in the OP. I was the one who put her on a pedestal because she made me feel so good being around her, and she kept asking me "Why do you love me? I don't deserve it" and I couldn't really understand it. She for sure didn't like it, but she wouldn't listen to my side either.

I agree on the Fe part. Fe users can really get into your head and can maneuver around as they like, it's almost scary. Doesn't help that I sometimes can be borderline to naïve, I take what people say as more true than it's really meant at times, and she would often test me on this and I'd always be a bit slow to notice that she was playing me.

I think the pedestalization is a result of the uneven relationship created by the functions at play here.
 

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I don't think this whole phenomenon is related to gender. I actually recognize my ENFJ ex-girlfriend in both your descriptions and in the OP. I was the one who put her on a pedestal because she made me feel so good being around her, and she kept asking me "Why do you love me? I don't deserve it" and I couldn't really understand it. She for sure didn't like it, but she wouldn't listen to my side either.

I agree on the Fe part. Fe users can really get into your head and can maneuver around as they like, it's almost scary. Doesn't help that I sometimes can be borderline to naïve, I take what people say as more true than it's really meant at times, and she would often test me on this and I'd always be a bit slow to notice that she was playing me.

I think the pedestalization is a result of the uneven relationship created by the functions at play here.
Are you a TP of some sort, is that what you mean by the functions causing the pedestal?

Because I never had my ex on a pedastal. I was very very deeply in love with him, but pedastal, no. The first time we ever spoke we argued. I actually couldn't believe that so many girls thought my ex was so perfect and good, because he shared cake with his coworkers, or whatever the fuck. That had never been my experience of him. Affectionate, yes. Manipulative, yes. Thoughtful when it suited him, yes. Relationship oriented, yes. But I never saw him as a perfect nice guy. In fact perfect nice guys make my skin crawl, and I thought my ex was too intense or lovey dovey at first. I guess that was typical for him when he had a gf, to him that's what having a gf meant, being cuddly and coochy coo, and I wasn't having it....until I actually loved him. I can see how other girls may have bought into it too fast though and thus became his "fans"...they were too impressed by him. I liked him but thought he was a bit too much. I have more experience with more casually dating ISFJ rather than ESFJ. ..and the subtlety of the ISFJ isn't as terrifying, it comes across more as doing the right thing or doing what a gentleman should do, though I did get overly infatuated with an especially clingy ISFJ...but I'm glad that ended. I think he may have had some problems, he was still obsessed with his ex wife who left him for another man...and she blocked him on Facebook, and I think his clinging passion to me was a positive transference of his obsession with her, because he shut down almost as quickly as he turned it on. And weirdly, I actually started thinking of my ESFP the last time we had sex which was just weird. But anyway that ISFJ did the thing, the thing where he sucked me in.

People who do that though probably have personality disorders. I'm attracted to people who have cluster B traits, because I'm special that way.
 

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Because I never had my ex on a pedastal. I was very very deeply in love with him, but pedastal, no. The first time we ever spoke we argued. I actually couldn't believe that so many girls thought my ex was so perfect and good, because he shared cake with his coworkers, or whatever the fuck. That had never been my experience of him. Affectionate, yes. Manipulative, yes. Thoughtful when it suited him, yes. Relationship oriented, yes. But I never saw him as a perfect nice guy. In fact perfect nice guys make my skin crawl, and I thought my ex was too intense or lovey dovey at first. I guess that was typical for him when he had a gf, to him that's what having a gf meant, being cuddly and coochy coo, and I wasn't having it....until I actually loved him. I can see how other girls may have bought into it too fast though and thus became his "fans"...they were too impressed by him. I liked him but thought he was a bit too much.
I didn't imply that you put him on a pedestal or anything, I meant more like your description of him reminded me of my previous situation. A funny difference though is that my ex wasn't aware of her fans, but I was. :p

I don't think she was being manipulative on purpose, she just had that way about her. Very kind, taking responsibility for others' feelings and a tendency to lie to spare feelings even though it wasn't wanted. It attracts people, but it can be a two-edged sword.

Are you a TP of some sort, is that what you mean by the functions causing the pedestal?
I meant that different personalities can want different things, this creates asymmetry in the relationship where one person distances themselves and the person other overcompensates instead. Why would that make me a TP?
 

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That can happen to you if you're empathic, compassionate and patient. Those are great qualities to have, but you also have to be assertive enough to make sure your needs are met. Being a great listener is one thing, but you deserve to be listened to as well and when someone puts you on a pedestal, they're not taking you seriously as a person.

Have you told this person how you feel about this? If you want people to understand you better, the best thing to do is to be completely honest.

Also -- and this is just me projecting my own experience on to you -- the people who went overboard in idealizing me weren't very emotionally stable people. They weren't looking for an equal partner, they were looking for a saviour... not the best recipe for a healthy relationship. IME highly empathic people tend to see the good in others for being able to relate so easily, sometimes to a fault, and they're especially attractive to needy people.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This seems to be a problem with being very adaptable socially, don't forget being yourself. If others can't see you for who you are because you're distancing yourself, they'll fill in the gaps themselves. Also, people who are idealistic want to be understood and loved by someone, and will try to find this in others almost desperately. Sometimes it matches reality, other times not.
Whoa, you are so right. But how do you turn that off, I'm mean how do you stop distancing yourself when that's the only way you know how to be social?

I don't think this whole phenomenon is related to gender. I actually recognize my ENFJ ex-girlfriend in both your descriptions and in the OP. I was the one who put her on a pedestal because she made me feel so good being around her, and she kept asking me "Why do you love me? I don't deserve it" and I couldn't really understand it. She for sure didn't like it, but she wouldn't listen to my side either.

I agree on the Fe part. Fe users can really get into your head and can maneuver around as they like, it's almost scary. Doesn't help that I sometimes can be borderline to naïve, I take what people say as more true than it's really meant at times, and she would often test me on this and I'd always be a bit slow to notice that she was playing me.

I think the pedestalization is a result of the uneven relationship created by the functions at play here.
I'm an ENFP who dates Fi doms, and Ni doms almost exclusively... it's never a conscious decision, it just ends up that way. What's the uneven relationship between Ne and Fi/Ni?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'm going to guess your type as an Fe dom 2...a lot of people of course are going to feel excited about meeting a person they are attracted to who has high interpersonal intelligence and of course would choose to take it personally unless they are 1. Old and wise 2. Suspicious of all menz 3. Not that into you.
I'm an ENFP 2w3, so Ne dom with a very developed Fi. Don't know the significance of that in the context of my romantic problems, but it sounds like you might.

Well here's the thing...in our culture, these sorts of men are a real breath of fresh air because they seem relationship oriented. So of course women who want a relationship may idealize someone who seems so...girl like, for lack of a better term. If he does not seem "feminine" and is not gay, it is actually not that far fetched for a woman to presume he's just this amazing soul mate of a person. Trust me, Fe men are very easy to date for this reason. My ESFJ ex terrified me at first with his smiling old world Euro trash behavior, hugging me, kissing me, calling me his girl, making me cups of tea and showing me Dario Argento films after we had dinner with his mother. I should have went with my gut instinct and stayed away, but anyway he chased me and we had good sexual chemistry, and I liked his art house trashy films, and honestly it became diffIcult after a while to leave him, even when he acted psychotic, because he was just so darn thoughtful. How many women would kill for a man who is a morning person himself to hang black curtains because he knows you like to sleep in, and calls them pet names and likes to cuddle.

I actually wonder how manipulative the OP is and if he uses it to get sex. Some guys use the intimacy angle to build false trust so they can get laid. It's a game like any other, so I wonder how much the OP really is a "victm" of his own charm. It crossed my mind that he possibly just doesn't like consequences.

On the other hand if these are mainly crushes that random girls or platonic friends get with him, then I guess I could see it.

Or maybe the women really are over idealizing him. That happens with any infatuation or romantic love. ....but maybe he's unconsciously seeking needy girls who decide he's perfect way too fast. In my experience, women may like to be put on a pedastal, some women anyway, but guys seem turned off by it, like all the challenge has been taken away.
Well, I'm gay. So sex has never been hard to come by for me, because there's literally an app for that. I don't really need to put forth any effort to find someone for that, lol.

But now that I think about it, I do believe I'm most attracted to men who are somehow..."damaged", I'm drawn to that sadness behind their eyes. Something has me believing I have what it takes to, I guess, make them happy.....Which might be my problem, whoa.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
That can happen to you if you're empathic, compassionate and patient. Those are great qualities to have, but you also have to be assertive enough to make sure your needs are met. Being a great listener is one thing, but you deserve to be listened to as well and when someone puts you on a pedestal, they're not taking you seriously as a person.

Have you told this person how you feel about this? If you want people to understand you better, the best thing to do is to be completely honest.

Also -- and this is just me projecting my own experience on to you -- the people who went overboard in idealizing me weren't very emotionally stable people. They weren't looking for an equal partner, they were looking for a saviour... not the best recipe for a healthy relationship. IME highly empathic people tend to see the good in others for being able to relate so easily, sometimes to a fault, and they're especially attractive to needy people.
It's like @Blue Soul said, if I explain to them that their idea of me is totally false.. they don't really understand what I'm saying. But yeah, I'm guilty of playing into that role of savior, because I do like them, and for as long as the relationship lasts they're happy.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
They (don't ask me who the fuck "they" is) say that there are two kinds of sexists:

Those who believe every woman is beneath them
And those who believe every woman is a goddess

I'm paraphrasing here but you get the concept.

I think this whole idea can be expanded to say that people who put another person on a pedestal is almost dehumanizing them a bit. Nobody deserves that kind of adoration.


It's happened to me a couple times myself, and it honestly seemed rather selfish on their behalf.

I felt super uncomfortable about the entire affair, though don't know how they wanted me to respond---Oh wait! That's right. They don't really care! Because when you put somebody on a pedestal, it will become all about you more often than not.

It's more that they like the idea of you and don't even treat you as an actual person.
As I reply to everyone in this thread, and from the conversations I've had with people since I posted this, I'm realizing I do hold a lot of responsibility for this trend in my life. So while I agree that the process of putting someone on a pedestal is dehumanizing, I'm not convinced I don't deserve it.
 

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It's like @Blue Soul said, if I explain to them that their idea of me is totally false.. they don't really understand what I'm saying. But yeah, I'm guilty of playing into that role of savior, because I do like them, and for as the relationship lasts they're happy.
Yeah, I definitely think there are some misunderstandings and communication misses from both sides.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I personally crush the pedestal by randomly being more human to them, like.. if they think I'm the nicest person on Earth I'd rant about how stupid everyone is, or if they think I'm cool I suddenly go on about weird Science stuf- err.. uhh... not be cool somehow.., if they think I'm hot I do that one thing people do where they tuck their chin in to make a double chin while making random animal noises, all the chizz.

Anyways, better to destroy the pedestal, being a mentor/weird thing people orbit around is just a bit much.
I actually do the same thing with platonic relationships where others are looking up to me, because I think it's best for both parties if they can learn from me outside of that illusion. But I find disillusioning people difficult to do in romantic relationships, for whatever reasons.
 

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I actually do the same thing with platonic relationships where others are looking up to me, because I think it's best for both parties if they can learn from me outside of that illusion. But I find disillusioning people difficult to do in romantic relationships, for whatever reasons.
I find it even more hilarious because it's a relationship and lying in a relationship is tantamount to social suicide. Sooooooo, short of slapping the person for niceness, embarassing the person in front of his/her friends for coolness, and adopting the accent people with down syndrome has for being smart.
Cuzwhynot.
 
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