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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do you think that people mindlessly take advantage of you or do you unknowingly let people do it? Or both? Is it maybe because your passive? Do you ever speak up and say "hey it's your turn to do the dishes" or just do them in silence ? If so why not speak up?

I think my mom is an ISFJ with a middle ground N F reading. I'm trying to understand this more.

Also, how do you see love? Gifts, works of service, quality time, Words of Affirmation, or Physical Touch?
 

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To keep the peace, I'll often let others take advantage of me. I'm very aware of it, and if it starts to happen frequently I'll eventually explode on the person. This can come as shock to them and make me look like the bad guy. Oh well.

My idea of love? To be perfectly honest, I don't think ISFJs are really capable of loving. It's more like, once we get involved with someone, they just start becoming routine and once something becomes routine, we're afraid of losing it. That's not to say I don't have strong feelings for other people, but those feelings seem to be based more on an empathetic basis, like I want to save them. It's silly.
-- Anyway, once I'm involved with someone.. or.. Saving them.. I really try to get inside their heads. I love intimacy so I want them to feel like they can share their inner most feelings/thoughts with me, in return they'll receive my unconditional love. Love in this sense is like, caring to the extreme.. about every little detail. Placing that person's interests above my own in almost every way.
-- Ugh, right now.. I don't love anyone and I'm thankful I don't. It's too much like a chore. :sad:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
To keep the peace, I'll often let others take advantage of me. I'm very aware of it, and if it starts to happen frequently I'll eventually explode on the person. This can come as shock to them and make me look like the bad guy. Oh well.

My idea of love? To be perfectly honest, I don't think ISFJs are really capable of loving. It's more like, once we get involved with someone, they just start becoming routine and once something becomes routine, we're afraid of losing it. That's not to say I don't have strong feelings for other people, but those feelings seem to be based more on an empathetic basis, like I want to save them. It's silly.
-- Anyway, once I'm involved with someone.. or.. Saving them.. I really try to get inside their heads. I love intimacy so I want them to feel like they can share their inner most feelings/thoughts with me, in return they'll receive my unconditional love. Love in this sense is like, caring to the extreme.. about every little detail. Placing that person's interests above my own in almost every way.
-- Ugh, right now.. I don't love anyone and I'm thankful I don't. It's too much like a chore. :sad:
Do you find change a hard thing? Do you think most ISFJ's have problems with change? What about the no rule breaking thing?
 

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Change a hard thing? Not necessarily but I like to have constants in my life. I suppose most ISFJ's have limited interests. When I get really interested in something, I can drop a lot of other things in my life to invest more time into that one thing. For example, I love spending time on the computer. It's a constant. But at times when I've been pulled away from my computer for an extended period then I'll invest a lot of myself into other things, particularly working out. I don't know what it is, but I just need something to constantly focus on. It's the same way with people, when I'm in a relationship I feel like I need to focus all of my energy on that person. What do you mean by rule breaking? I'm usually one to bend a rule as much as I can. lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Change a hard thing? Not necessarily but I like to have constants in my life. I suppose most ISFJ's have limited interests. When I get really interested in something, I can drop a lot of other things in my life to invest more time into that one thing. For example, I love spending time on the computer. It's a constant. But at times when I've been pulled away from my computer for an extended period then I'll invest a lot of myself into other things, particularly working out. I don't know what it is, but I just need something to constantly focus on. It's the same way with people, when I'm in a relationship I feel like I need to focus all of my energy on that person. What do you mean by rule breaking? I'm usually one to bend a rule as much as I can. lol
Well, I have herd the ISFJ's hate it when people don't conform. I'm not trying to sterotype you. I'm asking as many ISFJ's the same question.
 

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I can relate Floryshe.

I don't think I've ever been taken advantage of real badly. Only when I've been teased.

What does happen often is when people ask me to do things for them and I say yes. Only to find that I have more work to do then I can handle or should be handling at the moment.

What I've learned to do is realize that I can only do so much on a given day and learn to say no to certain things, not harshly, but that you have other things occupying you. You have to let others know that yes you can be depended on, but I'm not always there.
 

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Like always, I can only speak for me, not all ISFJ's. However, on this topic I've found that what I've read about ISFJ's in books lines up very well with my own personal feelings.

Do you think that people mindlessly take advantage of you or do you unknowingly let people do it? Or both? Is it maybe because your passive? Do you ever speak up and say "hey it's your turn to do the dishes" or just do them in silence ? If so why not speak up?

floryshe said:
To keep the peace, I'll often let others take advantage of me. I'm very aware of it, and if it starts to happen frequently I'll eventually explode on the person. This can come as shock to them and make me look like the bad guy. Oh well.

floryshe described this pretty accurately for me, though I rarely explode to the person who's doing it...I'll usually find other ways of releasing all of my anger.


To answer your first question, I think it's kind of both...I think it becomes so routine that both parties aren't very aware of it until it gets really bad. I think the thing is that ISFJ's tend to care so much about other people naturally, and the SJ in us structures things so much that it becomes routine. This makes us extremely reliable. So for example, if a boss at work has something irritating that needs to be done, he won't want to ask someone he knows has a good chance of screwing it up. If he needs something done, he might ask me because he knows that he can rely on me to do it. I don't think he's consciously trying to take advantage of my good nature...I just think his priority is to make sure things get done, and he doesn't take my own feelings into account naturally.

From my end, I'm likely to do it because it feels good to make life easier for him. It's nice to feel needed and important, even if there's not much direct appreciation for it. Of course, when I do get genuine appreciation for it, it's one of the best feelings in the world, too. I think ISFJ's really like knowing they did a good job well.


The problem is that this can build up over time to the point where we can't handle things anymore. This is particularly bad when we don't get any affirmation or appreciation. To me, I don't really feel like I've been taken advantage of unless there is no appreciation. That's when I start getting really stressed out and am more likely to get angry.

And I think that's what makes it hard...it's tough to tell when someone appreciates your good work or not. It's not like you can really ask someone that...because if you do, for all you know they're only saying they do appreciate it because they want to make you happy. That false sort of appreciate means absolutely nothing.

But...someone may still greatly appreciate you and just never think to say it. So you can't just assume someone doesn't appreciate you just because they don't mention it much.


So that's where I think I get stuck, and that's where I tend to get taken advantage of. It's almost like I live to do a good job and be appreciate for it, so it's almost like I'm constantly searching for that. It's so hard to stop. But since you can't ever tell for sure whether or not the appreciation is there, you end up doing so much work whether you're appreciated or not. Hence, there are situations where you get taken advantage of. I think most of the time people aren't trying to take advantage of me, but there are probably some cases where they are, and it's very hard to detect those.



ENTJwillruletheworld said:
Also, how do you see love? Gifts, works of service, quality time, Words of Affirmation, or Physical Touch?
It's hard to answer this because I don't know what kind of love you're talking about. I think it's a little different depending on which type.

But in general, for me quality time and genuine words of affirmation are definitely the most important. And it's like I said before, it all goes back to appreciation. If somebody's willing to spend time with me, I know that I'm important to them, and I feel appreciated. If I know they're affirming me truly from their heart, it's the same thing. Of course, timing is also important...sometimes I also just need to be left alone.

Gifts don't really mean that much to me in terms of love, though...unless someone makes me something very personal, I just feel like they can be given with nothing behind them. Even if someone buys me a fitting gift, that just means they know what I like, not necessarily that they feel strongly for me.

In the right relationship, physical touch can be very important...but same thing, it's not always a very personal expression of love. Anyone can give a hug, it may or may not mean anything. It's the intent of the person giving the hug that's extremely important, and that's where the words and quality time really emphasize that.

Works of service aren't very good love wise for me because I feel like I need to repay the person with something. Like gifts and physical touch, it's the intent behind it that means much more than the act itself.





ENTJwillruletheworld said:
Do you find change a hard thing? Do you think most ISFJ's have problems with change? What about the no rule breaking thing?

floryshe said:
Change a hard thing? Not necessarily but I like to have constants in my life. I suppose most ISFJ's have limited interests. When I get really interested in something, I can drop a lot of other things in my life to invest more time into that one thing. For example, I love spending time on the computer. It's a constant. But at times when I've been pulled away from my computer for an extended period then I'll invest a lot of myself into other things, particularly working out. I don't know what it is, but I just need something to constantly focus on. It's the same way with people, when I'm in a relationship I feel like I need to focus all of my energy on that person. What do you mean by rule breaking? I'm usually one to bend a rule as much as I can. lol
I'm kind of like floryshe here and kind of not. For the most part I do find change to be a hard thing, for the reasons floryshe mentioned. But, if I can see why doing something new is clearly something I like a lot better, I'm very apt to make the change. So basically, in order to change, I have to feel very confident that the change will be a good thing and give good results.


It's kind of the same with breaking rules. I in general just about always follow rules. The only time I don't is when I think the rule is stupid and has no purpose or benefit to anyone. If I know that a rule is there to make things easier for someone else, I'm very apt to follow it. But if I see no value in it, I usually don't have a problem breaking it.

I do think there's a difference between STJ's and SFJ's here. I think an STJ usually follows rules if the rules logically make sense to them, and they see the logical purpose. I think SFJ's usually follow the rules because they see how they benefit people.
 

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I know I constantly like to keep the peace, so I'm mostly taken advantage of in that aspect. As in, "Can you do this for me? If you don't, it'll disrupt the peace, and it'll be your fault." Recently, though, it's like I've grown a new pair of eyes for these situations, because I spot them before they've even happened and put an end to it. I can get a little too frustrated at these times, though, because it happens often...and I tend to be so offended that I blow up. It mostly happens at work, go figure.

I'm really bad with change. I accept that it's inevitable, but my thing is, if it ain't broke, why fix it? :)

Despite my need to keep the peace, I'm ironically against conformity. Is this a Type 4 thing? I'd rather people be themselves than conform. Now, if they're being an a-hole because "that's who they are," that ain't gonna fly because it's just disrespectful. Does that make sense...?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I know I constantly like to keep the peace, so I'm mostly taken advantage of in that aspect. As in, "Can you do this for me? If you don't, it'll disrupt the peace, and it'll be your fault." Recently, though, it's like I've grown a new pair of eyes for these situations, because I spot them before they've even happened and put an end to it. I can get a little too frustrated at these times, though, because it happens often...and I tend to be so offended that I blow up. It mostly happens at work, go figure.

I'm really bad with change. I accept that it's inevitable, but my thing is, if it ain't broke, why fix it? :)

Despite my need to keep the peace, I'm ironically against conformity. Is this a Type 4 thing? I'd rather people be themselves than conform. Now, if they're being an a-hole because "that's who they are," that ain't gonna fly because it's just disrespectful. Does that make sense...?
Awww I'm sorry that makes you feel that way. It wouldn't be your fault!! I don't know if it is a type 4 or not, I am not familiar with that at all. Hahah I totally agree with that! LOL. Yeah it makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah, I'm working on learning that. :)

I think that's one of the big things us ISFJs have to work toward, is learning how to accept that just because there's unrest, it's not our fault, nor our sole obligation to fix it.
So if a friend and I got into a fight and you were there, would you think it was fault? And your job to fix it? How unsettling would that be for you? Would it ruin your day? Just wondering.
 

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So if a friend and I got into a fight and you were there, would you think it was fault? And your job to fix it? How unsettling would that be for you? Would it ruin your day? Just wondering.
Hmm. I wouldn't necessarily put the blame completely on myself, especially if I don't know the whole situation between you two. I would be upset about the fighting, but if it continued then yes, I would find some way to try to settle the dispute.

I've been in a similar situation before. I have 3 best friends; me and this girl "R" were getting along just fine, but we had some issues with the other two, "L" and "K." One day "R" got tired of "K's" sassiness and said something like "I'm sick of this sh**." To make matters worse, this was over a Facebook message. I responded, "Guys, please don't do this on Facebook, we'll talk about it later offline."

I met with "R" separately one day and she said she wanted to settle the argument, but was afraid because "You won't say anything that's on your mind because you don't want anyone to be upset, and I don't want to go it alone." (She was talking to me, here.)

I was really upset she said that, and first felt guilty for not speaking my mind on a stupid Facebook message. Later on, though, I realized how immature it would be to bring it up online and struck her comment up to her frustration.


It's a little hard describing the situation, haha. Hopefully it had some relevance....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hmm. I wouldn't necessarily put the blame completely on myself, especially if I don't know the whole situation between you two. I would be upset about the fighting, but if it continued then yes, I would find some way to try to settle the dispute.

I've been in a similar situation before. I have 3 best friends; me and this girl "R" were getting along just fine, but we had some issues with the other two, "L" and "K." One day "R" got tired of "K's" sassiness and said something like "I'm sick of this sh**." To make matters worse, this was over a Facebook message. I responded, "Guys, please don't do this on Facebook, we'll talk about it later offline."

I met with "R" separately one day and she said she wanted to settle the argument, but was afraid because "You won't say anything that's on your mind because you don't want anyone to be upset, and I don't want to go it alone." (She was talking to me, here.)

I was really upset she said that, and first felt guilty for not speaking my mind on a stupid Facebook message. Later on, though, I realized how immature it would be to bring it up online and struck her comment up to her frustration.


It's a little hard describing the situation, haha. Hopefully it had some relevance....
Yeah it did!
 

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Basically, she thought I was obligated to defend her just because we were a group of 4, even though her situation had nothing to do with me. I felt guilty because it's my friends, so I felt like it was my job to settle the argument, whereas it wasn't my battle to fight in the first place.


Personally, I feel better when I know I've helped people. I don't really need constant appraisal. Secretly helping people is kind of like food and water to me, you know? But similar to what floryshe said, we don't like when others automatically assume we're going to help them, because we're human too and we need our breaks just like everyone else. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Basically, she thought I was obligated to defend her just because we were a group of 4, even though her situation had nothing to do with me. I felt guilty because it's my friends, so I felt like it was my job to settle the argument, whereas it wasn't my battle to fight in the first place.


Personally, I feel better when I know I've helped people. I don't really need constant appraisal. Secretly helping people is kind of like food and water to me, you know? But similar to what floryshe said, we don't like when others automatically assume we're going to help them, because we're human too and we need our breaks just like everyone else. :)
To be honest. I would want my friends to back me up and I would want them to feel obligated to do so. But it doesn't mean that you're wrong for not wanted to or not feeling that way. :D
 

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To be honest. I would want my friends to back me up and I would want them to feel obligated to do so. But it doesn't mean that you're wrong for not wanted to or not feeling that way. :D
Of course, I didn't mean it as I have to feel obligated to help. But for her to make a generalization that I won't ever stand up for her just because I didn't that one time is what made me upset.

I think that's just a difference between her and I though, is that she vocalizes everything that bothers her whereas I usually let little problems like that slip by because I'm afraid of creating a fuss. We just have miscommunications in that area.

To her credit, that's another thing my type (or perhaps just me, as a part doesn't necessarily represent a whole) needs to constantly work on, is to not be afraid of conflict. As in, expressing our frustration while it's building up rather than expressing it in an explosion at the end. Thus is the ISFJ downfall. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Of course, I didn't mean it as I have to feel obligated to help. But for her to make a generalization that I won't ever stand up for her just because I didn't that one time is what made me upset.

I think that's just a difference between her and I though, is that she vocalizes everything that bothers her whereas I usually let little problems like that slip by because I'm afraid of creating a fuss. We just have miscommunications in that area.

To her credit, that's another thing my type (or perhaps just me, as a part doesn't necessarily represent a whole) needs to constantly work on, is to not be afraid of conflict. As in, expressing our frustration while it's building up rather than expressing it in an explosion at the end. Thus is the ISFJ downfall. :)
Oh, okay. I understand what you're saying now. Yeah, communicating your frustrations shouldn't lead to conflict! But, I guess it depends on WHO you are expressing it to. Take baby steps, and start expressing it in small ways.
 

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Do you think that people mindlessly take advantage of you or do you unknowingly let people do it? Or both? Is it maybe because your passive? Do you ever speak up and say "hey it's your turn to do the dishes" or just do them in silence ? If so why not speak up?

I think my mom is an ISFJ with a middle ground N F reading. I'm trying to understand this more.

Also, how do you see love? Gifts, works of service, quality time, Words of Affirmation, or Physical Touch?
To answer the original questions, yes, I know that I do let people take advantage of me sometimes. I do a lot of odd jobs, for example, and if someone forgets to pay me, I won't approach them right away. I don't want them to feel bad for forgetting or not having the money on hand - or whatever the reason may be.

I think ISFJs struggle sometimes with simply being too nice (sorry if that comes across as snobbish - not my intention). We don't want to cause people discomfort or make them dislike us. It's very difficult for me to approach people about things like not being paid, especially if I don't know them well.

Also, I tend to show other people I love them by acts of service - I'll clean house, fix a nice meal, etc. Receiving love....probably words of affirmation are the best, as others have said.
 
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I think ISFJs struggle sometimes with simply being too nice (sorry if that comes across as snobbish - not my intention). We don't want to cause people discomfort or make them dislike us. .
I'm not saying some other types wouldn't do this too, but you worrying about coming across as snobbish is a perfect example not only of typical ISFJ behavior, but it's also perfect evidence of what you said right afterwards: "Don't want to make them dislike us." :)

Snobbish people would never be known for being too nice, probably. :)
 
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