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I suppose I'm not going to understand anything here because you guys (so far) appear to be all feeling types. What would I as an INTP know?, lol.

"INFPs, on the other hand, feel misunderstood because no one could possibly ever know them as well as they know themselves. However, interestingly, INFPs may not actually want to be fully understood, since it may entail losing some of their individually [sic] and being similar to other people. They may worry that they would lose some of their individuality if someone finally understood them."

I am primarily interested in trying to understand the last sentence.

Does it accurately describe the situation?

If so, by what means would someone lose some of their individuality if someone finally understood them? Certainly, they would lose a certain degree of an air of mystery; but would they not in the final analysis still fully remain their authentic selves? (Not seeking to criticize it if it is so, just trying to gain an understanding of it.)
My first reaction is people, no matter what they are, are very complex. This means the premise is wrong. No one can completely "understand" another. What we have here is a temporary understanding of a part of a person. If one can find another with a lot of understanding, then they are lucky. Even a child who has minimal development can surprise you.

Within a person's complexity, there is an individuality. A uniqueness. Understanding implies the potential for knowing how to behave with that person. It's a trifle audacious to say one knows how to do that. One can easily get it wrong, but it's nice when they get it right.

Speaking for myself, suppose I substitute T for F in the INFP. I'm pleased when someone can understand what my thoughts are. Then we have a harmony or if not, then a starting point to communicate. But if one goes into detail, one quickly finds there are ramifications not covered. There goes the understanding. Could feelings be like that?
 

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"However, interestingly, INFPs may not actually want to be fully understood, since it may entail losing some of their individually [sic] and being similar to other people. They may worry that they would lose some of their individuality if someone finally understood them."

This might explain why some INFPs love to 'shock' people--like how an INFP who might be perceived as 'meek' at work could turn up to a Halloween office party dressed as a loud and campy drag queen (or king). I think these INFPs aren't actually opposed to being (fully) 'understood': they're actually rebelling against being put into any kind of theoretical or cultural box/framework that comes before the INFPs' 'individual' quirks, likes, dislikes, opinions, etc. are acknowledged. Comments like 'Yeah--you and everybody else' or 'Oooh--so you're the "X" type!' will probably be taken to heart by a number of INFPs.
 

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I suppose I'm not going to understand anything here because you guys (so far) appear to be all feeling types. What would I as an INTP know?, lol.
Well, it's not like INTPs don't have feelings. The T/F just falls more under motivational qualities I believe, and how things are expressed.

My first reaction is people, no matter what they are, are very complex. This means the premise is wrong. No one can completely "understand" another. What we have here is a temporary understanding of a part of a person. If one can find another with a lot of understanding, then they are lucky. Even a child who has minimal development can surprise you.

Within a person's complexity, there is an individuality. A uniqueness. Understanding implies the potential for knowing how to behave with that person. It's a trifle audacious to say one knows how to do that. One can easily get it wrong, but it's nice when they get it right.
Yes, agreed. Within each individual there are differences, even within the same types, varying degrees of I/E, N/S, F/T, P/J. They're all just vague indicators. And that does not even take into account the assertive/turbulent, or factors such as life experiences that shapes certain aspects of how we operate inside and perceive ourselves.

But, I think that the closer one is to another in personality, the more they can perceive where the other person is coming from, and hence feel more of a sense of . . . empathy(?).
 

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I suppose I'm not going to understand anything here because you guys (so far) appear to be all feeling types. What would I as an INTP know?, lol.


My first reaction is people, no matter what they are, are very complex. This means the premise is wrong. No one can completely "understand" another. What we have here is a temporary understanding of a part of a person. If one can find another with a lot of understanding, then they are lucky. Even a child who has minimal development can surprise you.

Within a person's complexity, there is an individuality. A uniqueness. Understanding implies the potential for knowing how to behave with that person. It's a trifle audacious to say one knows how to do that. One can easily get it wrong, but it's nice when they get it right.

Speaking for myself, suppose I substitute T for F in the INFP. I'm pleased when someone can understand what my thoughts are. Then we have a harmony or if not, then a starting point to communicate. But if one goes into detail, one quickly finds there are ramifications not covered. There goes the understanding. Could feelings be like that?
Yes! I cannot agree more. Ti and Fi-dom have that characteristic in common that each is a singularity, they isolate and exclude by nature—how could that ever be understood objectively?
But, regardless of type, we are all singular anyway, and people do not want to learn the concept of understanding in a rational sense, because true understanding, as you’ve explained it, is not possible in all that is singular and unique. Here’s how I interpret it:

The idea of being completely understood, as we desire, is conflated with feeling understood. That bonding that occurs when two people feel they understand is largely psychic, if not also a little hallucinogenic. It keeps the factual limitations (the realization that two people cannot completely understand one another) from being revealed, then realized. When that happens, people are separate entities again. Logic seeks to form no alliance.

In feeling and “mind-melding”, the real goal is not to actually understand what said event was really like for the other person, but that the willingness to understand and ally has become more important than the understanding itself. The gaping blanks are filled in with goodwill and optimism, and nothing contradicts it because both are so simple and universal to understand. It becomes fact. It doesn’t make actual understanding any less of an illusion, or people any less complex, but simplicity is what brings people together and complexity is what drives people apart, and the satisfaction of people feeling they understand plays a critical role in forming unconscious alliances out of necessity.
 

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As a "T type" I've met a few INFPs and I'm amazed at how savvy they are with things I've never dreamed of. How to understand this?

If I lead with Ti and INFPs lead with Fi, what are we to make of this? I can't believe there has to be an incompatibility.

Here is the way I take it. My own Fi is how I feel about thinking. I hate to have my thinking dismissed as valueless. Could those who lead with Fi have a correspondence? That is, do INFPs have a Ti devoted to their Fi? That would mean they think what they feel is very wrong to be dismissed.
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Funny, I'm primilarly interested in how people start from I N F P to end up with those portraits.

Because interestingly, they don't. Instead they built their portraits based on previous portraits which did the same and none of them ever attempted to start from the premises and see how they're trully supposed to add up as a portrait.

Then after months spent identifying themselves to the non sequitur product of some collective nonsense they're eventually facing the issue of never having analyzed what's behind the four letters per se and try to reverse engineer those within the fallacious portrait, leading to corrupted premises.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure yer onto something here, but could you be more specific?
 

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Some challenging statements you've said. What you said I see as true, but I will add.

Yes! I cannot agree more. Ti and Fi-dom have that characteristic in common that each is a singularity, they isolate and exclude by nature—how could that ever be understood objectively?
I go for wide truths, objective (are they?) if I can. What a person is is true if we can observe that. What is singular and isolating is the specific choice of what we choose. For example, you chose to reply to a post and I did the same. The contents and action make both of us unique. Can those two things be understood? Probably not. Who is going to ask, why did you say what you did when you did and how motivated were you? Too much trouble to articulate. It's enough to remember it was done.



But, regardless of type, we are all singular anyway, and people do not want to learn the concept of understanding in a rational sense, because true understanding, as you’ve explained it, is not possible in all that is singular and unique. Here’s how I interpret it:
I say understanding is a matter of detail, depth and degree. We are organisms. Hard to force an organism so get to understand things slooowly. Take it easy. I hesitate to use the word "rational" because I don't know what that means.



The idea of being completely understood, as we desire, is conflated with feeling understood. That bonding that occurs when two people feel they understand is largely psychic, if not also a little hallucinogenic. It keeps the factual limitations (the realization that two people cannot completely understand one another) from being revealed, then realized. When that happens, people are separate entities again. Logic seeks to form no alliance.
Logic can be a guide. If logic were structure, feelings are the content. Both help.



In feeling and “mind-melding”, the real goal is not to actually understand what said event was really like for the other person, but that the willingness to understand and ally has become more important than the understanding itself. The gaping blanks are filled in with goodwill and optimism, and nothing contradicts it because both are so simple and universal to understand. It becomes fact. It doesn’t make actual understanding any less of an illusion, or people any less complex, but simplicity is what brings people together and complexity is what drives people apart, and the satisfaction of people feeling they understand plays a critical role in forming unconscious alliances out of necessity.
Lol. How about, complexity can bring people together, but simplicity tells you if you want to?
 

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@odinthor. I woke up with a memory to share with you, although it would seem like 1 ENFP comment on this thread is enough—- but understanding and being understood has always been very important to me. Basically why I married my husband, something ai put a great deal of value on.

Here’s the memory, the one time my INFJ best friend said I wasn’t sharing with her. I hadn’t even noticed, there was too much going on emotionally for me that I was trying to pull through and figure out what to do to relieve. She said “ I’m worried about you. You’re not sharing your feelings and you always do.” I was surprised in multiple ways:
1. I thought she really kind of hated when I would tell her stuff from my past. It tied her up listening to me and I always thought it was a chore for her and I usually apologized when I found myself dumping negative past stories on her.
2. I didn’t tell her much about my current feelings... or else I didn’t know I had. If I did it was always a portion.
3. She knew the full situation, so wasn’t she able to figure out what I feel? Wouldn’t it be obvious? My answer to myself was “I guess not. She’s never experienced any of this herself.”

I then said to her “I didn’t want to burden you and I don’t think you’d understand it. You’ve never been in love before.”

I had no idea— probably neither did she—- that she actually thrived on hearing my emotions and not feeling left out— I thought her listening was just “being nice” and was a burden anyway. She often had the look on her face that it was a burden...and also.... I want to fix things and relieve my emotions, actually. Comfort is good, acceptance is good, but I’m going to have to be the one to DO things to relieve my feelings. I can be the best help for me or maybe someone who is like me who has been through the same thing that can give me hope and ideas to help and also shared empathy. @ai.tran.75 has a very useful thread in the NF forum once about preferring Fi or Fe comfort when you need comfort— very interesting imo.

However, I don’t always see the same movement towards action in every high Fi user.
@BigApplePi I recently had to be reminded that when Ti exposes its thinking that it IS being vulnerable. Typically I only think of feelings as being personally precious. I have to be reminded that any introverted process feels personal and “mine’ basically.
 

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Over at https://introvertdear.com/news/infp-or-infj-7-ways-to-tell-them-apart/ I read the following passage:

"INFPs, on the other hand, feel misunderstood because no one could possibly ever know them as well as they know themselves. However, interestingly, INFPs may not actually want to be fully understood, since it may entail losing some of their individually [sic] and being similar to other people. They may worry that they would lose some of their individuality if someone finally understood them."

I am primarily interested in trying to understand the last sentence.

Does it accurately describe the situation?

If so, by what means would someone lose some of their individuality if someone finally understood them? Certainly, they would lose a certain degree of an air of mystery; but would they not in the final analysis still fully remain their authentic selves? (Not seeking to criticize it if it is so, just trying to gain an understanding of it.)
Identity or the self is not a material object that remains or exists by itself. I need to explain myself here. Individuality is just a word. What it points to is one's original response (whatever that means) in a specific situation or many different situations. Traditional spiritual discourse treat the self as a solid, immutable thing but that is not really the case. The self is indeed highly impressionable. It is not about any kind of aura of mystery. It is a lot more about being in touch with that authentic inner process. And it is very easy to lose touch with it. When you are in touch with that process one is capable of dealing with a vast variety of life situations without getting battered down by them. In contrast, being out of touch with the inner process that one is, life can very easily fall apart as it does, not infrequently.

INFPs may not actually want to be fully understood because at the heart of it I am my responses to life and tomorrow I will have a new one. How can you or anyone else fully understand that which is shrouded in the mystery that life itself is. But sometimes people do that. For their own comfort, for their own variety of reasons, people tend to put INFPs in a box of one kind or another - labeling their identity as one thing or another. I remember someone called me a lot of self-pity when I mentioned self-pity only in humour, here, on PerC. It led to weeks of skirmishes with that person. I still have jarring memories of that time.

So, people do that. Recently, a friend called my efforts of writing futile and that I am merely a degree holder i the liberal arts and nothing more. It hurt. It disappointed me profoundly. But it also gave me a window into his soul - to understand him a little better. Now this is a very dangerous line to walk. I can ignore my own sentiment and address his. And to be honest that is what I did a large part of my life. :) I am not doing it anymore. Whatever has to happen, it is in the storehouse of life to unfold. I must relinquish my control over what happens in life and just remain open to whatever comes. This openness becomes threatened when an excessively self-important being comes around and desperately claims response from the INFPs. It takes a lot of will power, mental disturbance, and self-inhibition to not respond to that influence externally as well as internally. It disturbs the process that one is. Other types, probably, are not as attuned to this inner process as much as an INFP (and to some extent ISFP) is.

Ultimately the process that I am will come back to its natural original form. But sometimes it ends up taking years, even decades to get there. We are not immortal beings. We are here for a limited period of time. And for that period of time, I want to live and respond and interact with people who have a developed sense of self and a subtle, nuanced expression of who they are. Other kinds of human beings are also human beings. I don't want to take their humanity away just because thye do not match my personality preference. But they are not my preference for interaction, is all.
 
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Personally I don't relate to any of that, though I have heard it expressed by others, not necessarily INFPs.

Being understood and experiencing a sense of kindred-spirit-ness has always been an ideal for me. I naturally move towards closeness and openness with people, provided they don't seem intimidating or toxic in some way. Though, I nolonger dream of telepathic connection because I realize being as introverted as I am I wouldn't want extra chatter in my mind.

I've always found it kind of ridiculous when people insist no one could possibly understand them without being them. I guess I figure having an understanding of emotions and a good imagination can give one adequate understanding of others and the ability to connect with someone even if you haven't experienced the same thing or had the same feelings about the same thing, (maybe you felt the same way for other reasons). I highly value the ability to look at something from someone else's perspective and get a feel for their flavor of being, their mindset, their emotional tint. I want others to do the same for me, and I don't think it's delusional to think you can have a good understanding of others. I love it when people actually "get" me. I feel like it gives me more freedom to be true to myself.

I've sensed from some people that they have a need to be a little mysterious, to feel like they have parts of themselves they don't share with anyone - lest they loose their sense of self. I can't say it exactly makes sense to me, but it seems to be the case for some. I feel like I long to be deeply seen and understood, and when I have been it's been great.

This seems like it might relate to enneagram?
 
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