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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Benefit relations, IMO, are one of the most tragi-comical relationships you can have. From the beneficiary's point of view, it's almost a curse. If there were a God, watching the interplay between a benefactor and a beneficiary is probably one of the ways it gets its laughs. Some of the descriptions here captures it perfectly:

One partner called the benefactor uses his "creative" function to activate the weak function of beneficiary. However, good reverse feedback does not exist in these relations, since both strong functions of beneficiary have no effect on the benefactor. This mechanism dictates the nature of these relations: everything that beneficiary says or does, the benefactor doesn't see as very important and significant, the beneficiary, in contrast, sees the benefactor as a very significant person. The request is impossible not to fulfill: it received by beneficiary's weak function that itself is unable to critically evaluate the information. Therefore, it is put into action without careful evaluation and without any resistance. The benefactor is not inclined to give much recognition to the beneficiary, seeing him as a weaker partner, so he tends to periodically patronize the beneficiary, order him around, attempt to teach him.
The beneficiary is at a higher level of social development than the benefactor, however, in these relations he is assigned a subordinate role. The benefactor seems interesting, significant, sometimes even unapproachable, and at the same time the beneficiary feels that he understands benefactor's concerns and human flaws. The benefactor is as if always asking or requesting something from the beneficiary, the beneficiary as if owes something to the benefactor, he perfectly picks up on the position of the benefactor. Benefactor, however, does not fully hear the beneficiary and does not look into his problems: it seems that the beneficiary will somehow manage on his own and arrange his life in any case. To fulfill the social order, the beneficiary must get away from the direct influence of the benefactor. Therefore, in these relations the beneficiary will periodically put up some resistance and grumble at the benefactor in order to distance. Nevertheless, this kind of "disloyalty" has almost no psychological effect on the benefactor.
To the benefactor it seems that the beneficiary is always doing something wrong, and that it can be done better. Benefactor sees the beneficiary as dependent, spoiled, poorly adapted to life in some way - it seems that without him the beneficiary will be lost. So he spends his time demanding, teaching, explaining, while the beneficiary keeps trying. At the beginning of their acquaintance, the beneficiary feels proud and happy to have such an admirable person associate with him. From the standpoint of beneficiary, the benefactor is only lacking one small thing to reach his ideal, and this small thing the beneficiary tries to fill. However, it seems to him that he can never please the benefactor, that he is constantly dissatisfied with something. In fact, this is not the case. Just that the beneficiary does not hear the words of support for him. In all corrective comments and even in simple questions he imagines a reproach. Thus people in these relations often start fighting seemingly over nothing. The relationship becomes less pleasant, however, these types rarely part. The benefactor feels that the beneficiary will be quite lost without him, so he cannot leave. Beneficiary cannot leave because it is impossible to leave such an admirable, superior person as the benefactor.
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How would you deal with this in a family situation where one sibling, or a parent, were the benefactor, and you were the beneficiary? What I'm interested in is how you would solve this problem or how you would escape. It's quite comical (and infuriating). The beneficiary cannot escape and nothing he or she does can hurt or affect the benefactor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I've figured it out.

Choice 1
You have to adjust yourself to different people. There is no other way around it since other people won't change.

CONS: You are the one that has to exert energy. Not them. PRO: You always have the psychological upper hand.

Choice 2
The alternative is to 'be yourself' everywhere you go.

PRO: You never have to exert energy. Or change. CONS: You get controlled by your supervisor, benefactor, conflict, etc. relations.

Looking back, I've always done choice 1. Having gone through a personal 'recession' for the past year or two, I stopped exerting energy, and started being affected by negative intertype relations.
 

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These relations don't necessarily turn sour, why need to "escape" necessarily? Keep in mind that what the benefactor can't hear in the beneficiary is the beneficiary's dominant function, the benefactor's mobilizing function. So with an IEE and an LIE, the LIE tries to assist the IEE in their need for Te, but the IEE doesn't respond. It's almost as if the Ni information with which the LIE communicates their Te bores the IEE, meaning neither the Te nor the Ni gets heard. If it were and LSE and an IEE, then the information would flow smoothly both ways, since the IEE is interested in the LSE's Si and thus her Te as well.
 

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This argument is inconsistent. If a benefactor can interest beneficiary with their creative/suggestive, then the beneficiary must be able to return the favour with the lead/mobilising. But if mobilising-Ignoring is boring to an benefactor because of Ignoring, then Demonstrative-Suggestive must be similarly boring to the beneficiary because it's more demonstrative focused than Suggestive focused.

E.G. If Ni-Te bores the LSI because of Te, then Ti-Se bores the ILI because of Ti.

I find the descriptions to be overly fatalistic and negative. According to the descriptions, everything other than duality is a failed relationship, yet the only types I outright fail to get along with is Fi types.

I like ILIs, I don't have to compete with them because they lack Se, and they're useful for ideas. I love SEIs as well, and I often find myself dominating over them with superior analytical skills.
 

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When it comes to ESI, benefactor, i find them... distant. Always interesting and damn classy in general. Some of them very cool people and gentle. LII, they are cool. interesting at times. I always feel at ease around them and they seem to want to give me "back" which make sense if I as the benefactor just by being me are giving them request. Or how it works?

I have always understand it like this. ESI just vibe Se all day. They communicate with Se and they are Se. I feel enlighten by Se and therefor I like ESI. It should be same but different with LII.

Other approach might be, it makes the beneficiary weak. You just wait to receive and become a receiver by habit and not giver. Not sure about this one. But sure, if beneficiary feel to be in debt to the benefactor this might create stress and low self worth? Even tho it would be very rewarding for the beneficiary. (I think this applies to supervision relations!, but not as much to benefactor relations)
 

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Heretic
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When it comes to ESI, benefactor, i find them... distant. Always interesting and damn classy in general. Some of them very cool people and gentle. LII, they are cool. interesting at times. I always feel at ease around them and they seem to want to give me "back" which make sense if I as the benefactor just by being me are giving them request. Or how it works?

I have always understand it like this. ESI just vibe Se all day. They communicate with Se and they are Se. I feel enlighten by Se and therefor I like ESI. It should be same but different with LII.

Other approach might be, it makes the beneficiary weak. You just wait to receive and become a receiver by habit and not giver. Not sure about this one. But sure, if beneficiary feel to be in debt to the benefactor this might create stress and low self worth? Even tho it would be very rewarding for the beneficiary. (I think this applies to supervision relations!, but not as much to benefactor relations)
The Se may seem harmless, but it isn't any type of Se.
It is Se infused with Fi.
This will if you accept it shut down your Fe and then you are basically neurotic.
The benefactor is in essence saying, the solution to your problem is to turn neurotic.
Fi destroys the creativity of Fe.
I've tried to stop giving you guys advice now that I know that.
Yet it is hard not to say your opinion when someone in trouble asks for advice.
 

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The Se may seem harmless, but it isn't any type of Se.
It is Se infused with Fi.
This will if you accept it shut down your Fe and then you are basically neurotic.
The benefactor is in essence saying, the solution to your problem is to turn neurotic.
Fi destroys the creativity of Fe.
I've tried to stop giving you guys advice now that I know that.
Yet it is hard not to say your opinion when someone in trouble asks for advice.
sure. As long you fi is clean and pure. Your Se give us a boost. But maybe or maybe not in the direction we need it in
 

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Heretic
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sure. As long you fi is clean and pure. Your Se give us a boost. But maybe or maybe not in the direction we need it in
Hehe clean and pure...
It is subjectively tainted how much more dark can it get to Fe?
It is exactly not in the direction you need.
Hello so called Ni/Ti loop, I don't have the count of how many hours
I've spent fueling some poor smucks Ni/Ti loop.
All the while thinking that if I just expound a bit more on the advice they will understand and all will be well.
 

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Hehe clean and pure...
It is subjectively tainted how much more dark can it get to Fe?
It is exactly not in the direction you need.
Hello so called Ni/Ti loop, I don't have the count of how many hours
I've spent fueling some poor smucks Ni/Ti loop.
All the while thinking that if I just expound a bit more on the advice they will understand and all will be well.
You job is not to help them but to show them fun. :p just laughs is good. I think, I miss magic and funtimes often. Ye I can not comprehend the darkness of Fi. Fe is just put all the shit out there and see how people react if it is legit or not. :p Fi can have these things inside for long time pounder it and make it very very real.
 

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You job is not to help them but to show them fun. :p just laughs is good. I think, I miss magic and funtimes often. Ye I can not comprehend the darkness of Fi. Fe is just put all the shit out there and see how people react if it is legit or not. :p Fi can have these things inside for long time pounder it and make it very very real.
Yeah ideally I could keep in touch with Se and just be tralala.

In real life an ISFj meeting an INFp would be feeling like they've met an INTp.
So the temptation is very huge to feed into the Ni process running before their eyes.
Yet then the INFp starts to bring forth etichal questions, and sure enough that is a familiar topic.
so the ISFj starts to come with input.
Now in this convo there is only advice based on Fi/Se or advice based on Ni/Te.
Both work like cyptonite to the INFp.



Either extinguishing Fe or hitting the INFp in the PoLR ever so slightly.
 

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It's quite funny. I just noticed that I have exactly the same problem with an LII. I can't stop trying to teach him things, because everything he does looks ridiculous to me. I see him trying to use Fe, and I'm just facepalming myself.
All he says is useless, and sometimes I have to be aggressive for him to understand that he's annoying.

At the same times, he won't let me go. He's always trying to interact with me, which annoys me. Because I have to tell him that he act like a stupid idiot.

He tried to help me with my issues one time (and this is the time when I get really pissed of). He thought that he understood something, but he didn't.

Yeah, he totally looks like a moron to me lol. And this relationship won't end because it's like a loop.

Of course, this is the worst case of a Benefit relation. I know more LIIs, and don't have problem with them.
Anyway, thanks for the descriptions, they were really insightful.
 

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Heretic
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It's quite funny. I just noticed that I have exactly the same problem with an LII. I can't stop trying to teach him things, because everything he does looks ridiculous to me. I see him trying to use Fe, and I'm just facepalming myself.
All he says is useless, and sometimes I have to be aggressive for him to understand that he's annoying.

At the same times, he won't let me go. He's always trying to interact with me, which annoys me. Because I have to tell him that he act like a stupid idiot.

He tried to help me with my issues one time (and this is the time when I get really pissed of). He thought that he understood something, but he didn't.

Yeah, he totally looks like a moron to me lol. And this relationship won't end because it's like a loop.

Of course, this is the worst case of a Benefit relation. I know more LIIs, and don't have problem with them.
Anyway, thanks for the descriptions, they were really insightful.
Never ever tell them about serious problems, if they give you advice
and God forbid you are in such a rut that you listen...
Well then you are screwed.
 
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Never ever tell them about serious problems, if they give you advice
and God forbid you are in such a rut that you listen...
Well then you are screwed.
Thank you for your compassion. Yeah lol I'm really screwed. And it's getting worse.

But life is like that, it's all about learning from our mistakes. Now I know that I shouldn't talk about serious problems to everybody.
 

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Heretic
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Thank you for your compassion. Yeah lol I'm really screwed. And it's getting worse.

But life is like that, it's all about learning from our mistakes. Now I know that I shouldn't talk about serious problems to everybody.
Yeah I'm just saying it, cause I've gone in the trap of doing that.
Following advice that goes against the dom attitude, more or less disregards the aux and flips the inferior,
while playing heavy on the tert is a resipie for disaster.
You cannot follow it and expect to succeed.
They can do it just fine, you can't. ;)
 

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How would you deal with this in a family situation where one sibling, or a parent, were the benefactor, and you were the beneficiary? What I'm interested in is how you would solve this problem or how you would escape. It's quite comical (and infuriating). The beneficiary cannot escape and nothing he or she does can hurt or affect the benefactor.
The Benefactor should understand that the beneficiary has different values and priorities, and that they do fine within their own quadra. I don't exactly agree that the beneficiary has nothing against the benefactor. They can point out benefactor's flaws on their hidden agenda and make benefactor if not agree then at least question themselves.
 
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