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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There's obviously overlap with Breaking Bad characters but this show has its own originals.

Jimmy/Saul - ExTP. (In BB he seemed to be iNtuitive but here he seems to use Se)
Chuck - INTP
Kim - ISFJ
Hamlin - ISTJ (possibly a hardened ISFJ)
Mike - ISTJ
 

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I just wrote on the other thread about Saul and Mike.

Saul is hilariously an ENTP. Intelligent, quick-witted and highly skilled on coming up with new creative solutions. "Oh, what are we gonna do now?", "Hm, let me try to give it a diferrent look... Hey, we could do this!". Ne/Ti is perfect for doing what his character does.

Mike is a stereotypical ISTP, I'm shocked so many people think he's a J. "We had a good thing, you stupid son of a bitch! We had Fring, we had a lab, we had everything we needed, and it all ran like clockwork! You could have shut your mouth, cooked, and made as much money as you ever needed! It was perfect! But no! You just had to blow it up! You, and your pride and your ego! You just had to be the man! If you’d known your place, we’d all be fine right now!". Where is there any judging, controlling trait in this guy? Se-aux gives him the opportunism to adapt himself to what life throws at him (he was a corrupted cop). He's too aloof about everything to be a J. The annoyance because of Walt's ego also gives points to inferior Fe against tert-Fi.
Chuck is definitely a Si-dom, it's irritating. Not sure about Te/Fi or Fe/Ti, but I'd go with ISTJ.

Is Hamlin the guy from the big company? He's an ESTJ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I just wrote on the other thread about Saul and Mike.
My issue with immediately labeling Saul an ENTP is that this show toned down his Ne, in every situation he sees everything superficially like an Se-dom would; although you can argue his criminal past with Senors might have influenced that.

Mike can be judgmental like that speech labeling the pill guy a criminal or when he beats up Walt for suggesting they kill Fring, but more importantly, he's naturally too by-the-book to be an ISTP like when he's operating the toll. He's not necessary aloof, in the sense of being in his head or forgetting about things, Mike's just not very reactive which is typical for ISTJs. Also I'm not sure that speech can be representative since it's an outburst but if anything it's Si-Ne by listing things and Te with wanting Walt to stay in his place.

Chuck is definitely a Si-dom, it's irritating. Not sure about Te/Fi or Fe/Ti, but I'd go with ISTJ.
He has Si, but as his dominant function? He actually does seem too aloof about things to be a J, like during the meeting when he awkwardly didn't say anything and then suddenly said the price; or just meandering in his house even though his "condition" would allow him to work by his adjustments. Plus he used Ti when talking about false assumptions.


Is Hamlin the guy from the big company? He's an ESTJ.
Yes and I can see that by why dominant Te instead of Si?
 

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Saul=ESTP
Mike has always been an ISTP
Chuck =ESTJ
Hamlin= ESTJ
 
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My issue with immediately labeling Saul an ENTP is that this show toned down his Ne, in every situation he sees everything superficially like an Se-dom would; although you can argue his criminal past with Senors might have influenced that.
I don't think he sees things superficially, I think he approaches every situation saying "What new idea can I come up with? How can I look at this in a way never looked before?". Faking a car accident with the skater boys, pretending to fall from the outdoor, jumping into the thrash can to restore the documents, etc. I see those things coming from Ne's inventiveness. He's also very argumentative and he always has a witty comeback to respond to everything, which is a classic ENTP thing.

Mike can be judgmental like that speech labeling the pill guy a criminal or when he beats up Walt for suggesting they kill Fring, but more importantly, he's naturally too by-the-book to be an ISTP like when he's operating the toll. He's not necessary aloof, in the sense of being in his head or forgetting about things, Mike's just not very reactive which is typical for ISTJs. Also I'm not sure that speech can be representative since it's an outburst but if anything it's Si-Ne by listing things and Te with wanting Walt to stay in his place.
"I didn't said you're a bad guy. I said you're a criminal. Whether a good one or a bad one, it's up to you.". He only perceives that what they did satisfies the definition of a crime, but he himself said the judgment is not up to him. And remember the tips he gives to the guy, Mike is always displaying that "reality knowledge" thing. I see tons of Se in him, he's an improviser genius. His first scene in the latest episode says it all, he arrives with no gun and gets to do the job alone; or the one back in Breaking Bad where he alone breaks into a place killing like five or six guys. And he always, always, keeps the stoic and laid-back demeanor. It's like he's playing GTA in real life. Mike is not by-the-book at all, I don't think an ISTJ would go to work as a tough guy of a drug dealer.

He has Si, but as his dominant function? He actually does seem too aloof about things to be a J, like during the meeting when he awkwardly didn't say anything and then suddenly said the price; or just meandering in his house even though his "condition" would allow him to work by his adjustments. Plus he used Ti when talking about false assumptions.
I think Chuck plays a similar role to Skyler's in Breaking bad: the moral counterweight. He is Jimmy's conscience. I mean, what other type would be annoyingly telling him what's right and wrong all the time? I have a hard time believing he's an E or a P. Awkwardness when meeting new people or thinking too much before speaking can be attributed to IJ. About his "medical condition" thing, it sounds like a bad use of inferior Ne plus Te's inductive reasoning.

Yes and I can see that by why dominant Te instead of Si?
Why dominant Si instead of Te? I see a higher Te. The guy is the head of the company. He's outspoken and takes the lead at the meeting scenes. Also, displays some competitive streak with Jimmy. He's egocentric and wants to be superior.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I don't think he sees things superficially, I think he approaches every situation saying "What new idea can I come up with? How can I look at this in a way never looked before?". Faking a car accident with the skater boys, pretending to fall from the outdoor, jumping into the thrash can to restore the documents, etc. I see those things coming from Ne's inventiveness. He's also very argumentative and he always has a witty comeback to respond to everything, which is a classic ENTP thing.
A lot of that can actually apply to Se, the issue is how the function works not just its behavior: for instance Socrates and Epicurus were both philosophers, inventive, clever, etc. while the latter was ESTP; Ne is really about brainstorming many abstract concepts from the environment like when he called Kim a pod person and does a lot more in BB. Se sees the environment "as it is," without any abstractions.

And I should say I'm sympathetic to Saul being ENTP, my worry is the writers wanted to make him too much like a superficial con-man stereotype that it makes him seem ESTP.

"I didn't said you're a bad guy. I said you're a criminal. Whether a good one or a bad one, it's up to you.". He only perceives that what they did satisfies the definition of a crime, but he himself said the judgment is not up to him. And remember the tips he gives to the guy, Mike is always displaying that "reality knowledge" thing. I see tons of Se in him, he's an improviser genius. His first scene in the latest episode says it all, he arrives with no gun and gets to do the job alone; or the one back in Breaking Bad where he alone breaks into a place killing like five or six guys. And he always, always, keeps the stoic and laid-back demeanor. It's like he's playing GTA in real life. Mike is not by-the-book at all, I don't think an ISTJ would go to work as a tough guy of a drug dealer.
Yeah he did qualify it and even the independence of goodness/criminality might be like Ti, but it still feels a bit judgmental to call someone a criminal for one crime (which has an obvious negative connotation even if a "good" criminal). It's like saying someone who just lied is a liar which Ti has a habit of seeing as incidental.

Both can be stoic, and position doesn't have anything to do with it, for instance Dirty Harry was "off-the-book" even though he was a cop. Mike is a "by-the-book," criminal which abides by a kind of Te morality from a criminal subculture. The only time I saw him improvise was (arguably) with the notebook and asking for a vet, everything from the gun-less encounter (he "did his research" to know he didn't need a gun) to killing the cops was planned far ahead.


I think Chuck plays a similar role to Skyler's in Breaking bad: the moral counterweight. He is Jimmy's conscience. I mean, what other type would be annoyingly telling him what's right and wrong all the time? I have a hard time believing he's an E or a P. Awkwardness when meeting new people or thinking too much before speaking can be attributed to IJ. About his "medical condition" thing, it sounds like a bad use of inferior Ne plus Te's inductive reasoning.
His worry about Jimmy seems to come from decades of having to bail him out, and he actually knew/worked with the lawyers in the meeting, the aloofness was him overthinking the case which is anathema to an SJ. And any type can have any mental illness, the issue is how he functions.

Why dominant Si instead of Te? I see a higher Te. The guy is the head of the company. He's outspoken and takes the lead at the meeting scenes. Also, displays some competitive streak with Jimmy. He's egocentric and wants to be superior.
It's not so much whether Si is dominant it's that his Te seems held back, again status is irrelevant as any type can be in charge of a company, it's that he's oddly well accommodating to everyone almost to the point of having Fe, like when Jimmy barges in and gives the speech and he just shrugs it off, or even when he gets mad at Kim it's not particularity strong although clearly based on Te.
 

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Jimmy/Saul - definite ENTP
Chuck - INTJ (stereotypical NiFi loop tinfoil hat)
Kim - ISFJ
Hamlin - ESTJ
Mike - eNTJ(a more reserved one, although I can see why some say ISTJ)
Tuco - ESTP(crazy, impulsive SeFe loop)
 

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A lot of that can actually apply to Se, the issue is how the function works not just its behavior: for instance Socrates and Epicurus were both philosophers, inventive, clever, etc. while the latter was ESTP; Ne is really about brainstorming many abstract concepts from the environment like when he called Kim a pod person and does a lot more in BB. Se sees the environment "as it is," without any abstractions.

And I should say I'm sympathetic to Saul being ENTP, my worry is the writers wanted to make him too much like a superficial con-man stereotype that it makes him seem ESTP.
Yeah, I can see the Ne/Se disparity between Socrates and Epicurus, the crazy inventor and the hedonistic adventurer. Se can have its creative prowesses, but I think the difference is easily seen. Saul's Ne is one the funnest things of this show. Isn't he pulling off abstract concepts about the environment all the time? It seems to be almost the definition of his character.

I wouldn't call Saul superficial. Actually, I'd say the depth/superficiality conflict is the Ni/Se conflict (hey ESPs, you suck). Saul is not deep too, but neither are ENTPs. I see that Ne is about looking for entertainment. For instance, that's why Ne users usually feel like knowing some about many topics, instead of immersing themselves into a particular one.

Yeah he did qualify it and even the independence of goodness/criminality might be like Ti, but it still feels a bit judgmental to call someone a criminal for one crime (which has an obvious negative connotation even if a "good" criminal). It's like saying someone who just lied is a liar which Ti has a habit of seeing as incidental.

Both can be stoic, and position doesn't have anything to do with it, for instance Dirty Harry was "off-the-book" even though he was a cop. Mike is a "by-the-book," criminal which abides by a kind of Te morality from a criminal subculture. The only time I saw him improvise was (arguably) with the notebook and asking for a vet, everything from the gun-less encounter (he "did his research" to know he didn't need a gun) to killing the cops was planned far ahead.
Calling someone a criminal usually has a negative connotation, but not in this case. He said "There are just two sides of the law. You can be on one or the other.", completely impartial like Ti naturally is.

Both are stoic, but Mike's secludedness gives me an ISTP vibe. A stoic ISTJ thinks "I'll just shut up and do what I'm supposed to do, because I'm a bolt screw. I'm a part of the big machine of the world that needs to keep running.", while a stoic ISTP thinks "I'm just a stone lost in the middle of the forest. I'll just be bold and adapt myself to anything that comes in my way, so I can fearlessly navigate through the world made of my logical understandings.".

Mike seems to be a lot more like my second description than the first one. That's why I said it's like he's playing GTA in real life. He's not a "by-the book criminal", neither he sees any sort of morality in what he does. Look at his son's story, Mike tried to convince him it was not worth it to stand against the corrupted cops. He thinks his son should've just adapted himself and understood that he can't fight a system so bigger than him.

Mike - eNTJ(a more reserved one, although I can see why some say ISTJ)
This is just funny.

His worry about Jimmy seems to come from decades of having to bail him out, and he actually knew/worked with the lawyers in the meeting, the aloofness was him overthinking the case which is anathema to an SJ. And any type can have any mental illness, the issue is how he functions.
Chuck - INTJ (stereotypical NiFi loop tinfoil hat)
If his worry about Jimmy comes from his sloppy past, then it’s another bit of Si evidence we have. Not letting go the past and saying like “You can’t do now what you’ve never done for years.” is a classic Si-dom thing. In the latest episode, when his brother did a whole great job starting the case, Chuck still wasn't able to easily change his past perception about Jimmy and tried to keep him out of the job.

If you think this guy is an NTJ, then you have a really wrong understanding of us. Chuck is so moralistic it makes me wanna punch him in the face. He’s more motivated by sense of duty than anything else. That’s why he’s even willing to act against his own brother.

The only thing I could possibly attribute to Ni is his theorizing about his medical condition. It’s a fact that he desperately held onto his idea formed internally about it, but I still think it can be an unhealthy use of inferior Ne.

It's not so much whether Si is dominant it's that his Te seems held back, again status is irrelevant as any type can be in charge of a company, it's that he's oddly well accommodating to everyone almost to the point of having Fe, like when Jimmy barges in and gives the speech and he just shrugs it off, or even when he gets mad at Kim it's not particularity strong although clearly based on Te.
Yeah, but he seems to be in his right place being in charge of things. He tries to accommodate everyone through his leadership skills. ETJs can be charismatic and worry about their minions if they feel it’s necessary.

Nonetheless, he is the one I'm not sure about. I’ll have to rewatch the episodes, because I didn’t pay much attention to him.






Besides, I have an instinct of identifying Si/Se dominants by this simple fact: I almost always hate them. This is not an argument, just my first thought when guessing the types. Saul can't be an ESTP and Chuck can't not be an ISJ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I wouldn't call Saul superficial. Actually, I'd say the depth/superficiality conflict is the Ni/Se conflict (hey ESPs, you suck). Saul is not deep too, but neither are ENTPs. I see that Ne is about looking for entertainment. For instance, that's why Ne users usually feel like knowing some about many topics, instead of immersing themselves into a particular one.
Yeah by the finale it was clearly Ne, it's almost like the more Jimmy matures the more abstract his thoughts get like his epic meltdown and desert metaphors, my guess is it's clearly from living in the con world most of his life.

Calling someone a criminal usually has a negative connotation, but not in this case. He said "There are just two sides of the law. You can be on one or the other.", completely impartial like Ti naturally is.
I'll give you that the speech was very Ti-heavy at least in that instance, but to the other points:

Both are stoic, but Mike's secludedness gives me an ISTP vibe. A stoic ISTJ thinks "I'll just shut up and do what I'm supposed to do, because I'm a bolt screw. I'm a part of the big machine of the world that needs to keep running.", while a stoic ISTP thinks "I'm just a stone lost in the middle of the forest. I'll just be bold and adapt myself to anything that comes in my way, so I can fearlessly navigate through the world made of my logical understandings.".

Mike seems to be a lot more like my second description than the first one. That's why I said it's like he's playing GTA in real life. He's not a "by-the book criminal", neither he sees any sort of morality in what he does. Look at his son's story, Mike tried to convince him it was not worth it to stand against the corrupted cops. He thinks his son should've just adapted himself and understood that he can't fight a system so bigger than him.
But the first is exactly what he is. His "adaptations" are abiding by the criminal culture: everything from wanting the labs to run "like clockwork" not unlike your bolt screw analogy, to beating up Walt for suggesting to kill Gus, not taking the money (an ISTP criminal passing up $800k?), telling his son not to rat out the cops etc. is all Te from a Godfather perspective.

The irony is most ISTP adaptations are done to cope with what they see as a repressive culture, Mike embodies that culture, he's not trying to game the system or escape it. If you want a really good example of an ISTP criminal see James Caan in the film Thief: he loves his job but hates the fact that he's working for an organization and has to abide by its rules.


Can someone explain the argument for why Chuck would be a Judger? Even when he's an asshole he tries to not overtly be, like when he tells Ernie "Are you sure? It's ok if you need to write this down" which suggests weak Fe.
 

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Saul - ENTP and is there seriously a debate on this? Hahaha, you guys take this "Se" shit way too seriously if so. Not to mention he fits the Ne description way better anyway no matter how you look at it so... No, being a con man doesn't make you an ESTP. In fact I would say an ENTP is far more likely to be a con man, whereas an ESTP would just put a gun to your head/beat you up and take your money. No, Saul is the ultimate stereotype of an ENTP. He's also just too zany and random and eccentric and works/thinks too fast and crazy and intellectually to be an S. Writing a legal contract on a roll of toilet paper? Yeah, total ENTP move.

Mike - 1000% ISTJ. His actions in the parking booth confirmed it. Only an SJ, and specifically only an ISTJ, could do that. Hell, Mike's quote which went something like "I had a job, so I completed it. That's all there is to it." which he said when asked why he didn't just run off with the money might as well be the quote to end all ISTJ quotes.

Chuck - I thought INTP at first, but after the big twist INTJ became clear.

Hamlin - I'm thinking ENTJ

Kim - IxxJ of some kind. At gunpoint, I'd probably say INFJ.

Tuco - As ESTP as ever. Contrast to Saul also helps make it clear why Saul is not ESTP. Look at the different ways they acted in the desert. Night and day difference between ENTP and ESTP. Saul thinks fast and comes up with clever arguments and solutions with his quick wit, while Tuco just wants to beat some guys up.
 

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Saul got better at using Ne as he got older I think

Mike I think ISTP

Chuck ISTJ for sure. Chuck performs his work in a very regimented fashion... everything has to be done a certain way to the point of ridiculousness. He is endlessly fussy about everything but is rather unhealthy, and not a reflection of ISTJs at their best. Mike doesnt care how things are done so long as they get done. Its a good contrast I think.

Hamlin... ENTJ came to mind but he is so flat that it doesnt really matter

Kim seems an obvious ENFJ to me
 

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But the first is exactly what he is. His "adaptations" are abiding by the criminal culture: everything from wanting the labs to run "like clockwork" not unlike your bolt screw analogy, to beating up Walt for suggesting to kill Gus, not taking the money (an ISTP criminal passing up $800k?), telling his son not to rat out the cops etc. is all Te from a Godfather perspective.
Now that we argued about it, I can see ISTJ as a possibility for him... An ISTP passing up $800k and saying "I had a job and I just did it." doesn't seem very likely to me, but I had some reasons to think so. I'm just undecided about him now.

Can someone explain the argument for why Chuck would be a Judger? Even when he's an asshole he tries to not overtly be, like when he tells Ernie "Are you sure? It's ok if you need to write this down" which suggests weak Fe.
I didn't directly argued for him being a judger. I gave arguments for a very high Si-dominance, which implies ISJ. His dialogue with Ernie only shows how thorough and neurotic about details he is.

And a Fe type? I don't think so. He acted against his own brother, just thinking about what he himself thought it was the right thing to do. I was between ISTJ and ISFJ, but that scene defined it: ISTJ.

Chuck - I thought INTP at first, but after the big twist INTJ became clear.
Being so moralistic like he is? Impossible. An Ni-dom would form his own impression about the situation and then judge it, and definitely not scream "The law is sacred!!", come on.
 

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Being so moralistic like he is? Impossible. An Ni-dom would form his own impression about the situation and then judge it, and definitely not scream "The law is sacred!!", come on.
Moralistic? Lol, what? I wouldn't call screwing over your own blood who has been taking care of you through your batshit "Ni"-delusion craziness "moral" at all. And if you mean "moralistic" in the sense that he screams "the law is sacred," you weren't reading the scene right. To Chuck it wasn't really about the law or morality; it was resentment that he put in all that work to go through a prestigious law school and he hates the fact that Jimmy could be a delinquent all his life and then coast from the mail room to the same position as Chuck with an online degree. He feels he hasn't "earned" it like he did. Chuck is an extremely self-centered, delusional, resentful man. So yeah... INTJ.

As for your "Si" dominant stuff... You're taking these functions too seriously. Not how you type. Functions at best explain the behind the scenes workings of a type; they have nothing to do with behavior and should not be used to type like that, certainly not for fictional characters.... Doesn't work. What you call "Si" I could as easily argue was "Ni" or tertiary "Fi" or something like that. Too vague, too flimsy. Not as bad as the guy implying judger=asshole because inferior Fe or something that you were responding to (that's just nuts) but still.

Anyway, just think - Do you really think Chuck is the same type as Mike? (Who is definitely ISTJ by the way, no question.) No. He's much closer to a Walt or Gus. Especially Walt actually.
 

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Can we please drop the whole "Jimmy is too clever to be an ESTP" thing? Yes, we get it, he is an ENTP, I totally agree. But don't come with the argument that an ESTP wouldn't be able to think as quick as an ENTP or just wants to beat people up. That's like saying every INFJ is into occultism or every INTP is a math nerd.

Oh, by the way - I'd say Chuck, Mike and Kim are ISTJs and I think it shows that personality types are not everything in determining what a character is like.
 

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Moralistic? Lol, what? I wouldn't call screwing over your own blood who has been taking care of you through your batshit "Ni"-delusion craziness "moral" at all. And if you mean "moralistic" in the sense that he screams "the law is sacred," you weren't reading the scene right. To Chuck it wasn't really about the law or morality; it was resentment that he put in all that work to go through a prestigious law school and he hates the fact that Jimmy could be a delinquent all his life and then coast from the mail room to the same position as Chuck with an online degree. He feels he hasn't "earned" it like he did. Chuck is an extremely self-centered, delusional, resentful man. So yeah... INTJ.

As for your "Si" dominant stuff... You're taking these functions too seriously. Not how you type. Functions at best explain the behind the scenes workings of a type; they have nothing to do with behavior and should not be used to type like that, certainly not for fictional characters.... Doesn't work. What you call "Si" I could as easily argue was "Ni" or tertiary "Fi" or something like that. Too vague, too flimsy. Not as bad as the guy implying judger=asshole because inferior Fe or something that you were responding to (that's just nuts) but still.

Anyway, just think - Do you really think Chuck is the same type as Mike? (Who is definitely ISTJ by the way, no question.) No. He's much closer to a Walt or Gus. Especially Walt actually.
Yeah Chuck is totally INTJ, he's like the stereotypical NiFi tinfoil hat, and people should have seen ENTP for Saul from watching Breaking Bad, it shows the extent to which people continue to misunderstand Se vs Ne.
 
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