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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Me: INFJ (although my T is pretty strong).
Asian, with a strong orientation toward math/science and a predilection for getting things done (lived with an ENTJ
roommate for a good 4 years of my life, had a profound influence on my attitude/work ethic/etc. My "T" shot up
alot around him.).

She: ENTP
Intelligent, very Social Justice-y (except when she's not), very Rebellious (except when she's not)


FYI - I have no romantic interest in her and vice versa.



6 Months Prior - New Graduate Program


Phase 1 (1 month): "OMG your the greatest thing since sliced bread" reaction from ENTP.

Powerfully enthusiastic and seeking out contact whenever possible. Continuously asking questions about
every aspect of my life.

My Reaction at the time: Oh, she's quite brilliant and interesting. New Friend!

..........But why is she sizing me up? Well, i'll just tell her being honest is my natural state of things.

Phase 2 (1-2 month): "Oh...hi"

Work picks up, she meets new people in our program and makes more friends in her outrageous, flirtacious,
in-your-face sort of way.

Her reactions have completely cooled around me. No longer tries to make funny inside jokes. All very
business-like. She's become very direct (which I like), and also very direct about the things she doesn't want
to talk about (mostly family life - i'm your typical Asian, can't stop talking about mine).

If i ever need help from her (and assuming she's paying attention), i know i can count on her.

But she doesn't quite "hang out" like she used to.



INFJ Personality Kicks into Overdrive: "Did i do something wrong?"

The Need to Overanalyze Leads me to:

1.) Thought1: Maybe I offended her somehow? I can't seem to get that thought out of my head.
She has these incredibly strong beliefs about things that fill-in the i guess you can say "Far-Left" segment of the American Political Spectrum. She gets into Advocate mode and thinks someone is being oppressed, prepare for the volcano...

Although born in the West, i'm still heavily culturally Chinese. I tend to find the whole Left/Right business to be a bit like Theater for the Masses. I'm a Technocrat at heart, because in my heart of hearts I feel that we often mistake Feeling Good with Doing Something Beneficial for others.

I disagreed with her once, about the universality of her views, and i took out a pen and dropped it on the ground saying - "That's a Universal Truth more concrete a demonstrable than the beliefs we individually hold." She bite on that hard and got into a debate

We've had a lot of debates for a while in fact....then it all stopped.


2.) Thought 2: Is this her True Face?

The alternative that my mind came up with.

That when you get past all the outlandish comments, the positive manipulation of teachers and friends, the untiring attempt to charm people she may even secretly dislike........... this is her Mind unadulterated by the concerns of the world.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So basically i'm afraid i can't tell if we've settled into an equilibrium of sorts, or if my friendship is dying on the vine so to speak.

I have no means of knowing if she's in a mode of being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, or if i've actually crossed some sort of unknown redline that i shouldn't have.

(yes yes, i know, sounds like NF overdramatization, but my ENTJ roommate's"Programming" gets overloaded when it comes to situations like these :tongue:)

And when i try to map out responses, contradictions pile up.

On somedays I might ask a question, and the response might be "I don't like to share personal things."

I ask the same question a month later, and I get everything but the kitchen sink (is that the right idiom?) as a
response.




Thoughts on the matter? I'm all ears.
 

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@Wang Jun

You went from potential true friend material to
acquaintance. At a guess, based on personal precedent.

She started all in almost, pushed the boundaries and has since
decided a level based on your feedback and reactions.

Typically I will do this unwillingly..no..not unwillingly, unknowingly,
subconsciously. Laying it on real think at the start to suss out peoples intentions and
levels. When we deem enough info has been acquired we fill in the
gaps with intuition, precedent and move forward accordingly.

Although in retrospect that seems like a human trait more than specific to an ENTP.
We just have a way of achieving it that can be misleading. Your example being
a good representation of that.

I have done this less and less as I age. You become more guarded or conversely
more open pending what life has handed you. Either way you find a balance
that allows for a more well rounded state of being that allows you to better
understand what you are looking for thus alleviating pushing through groups of
people to figure it out.

As in all things regarding an individual. Her m.o. is hers alone.
My best guess is all I can give.
 

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Dude, you have to be very, very careful with both the far-left and far-right at the moment. People have lost their shit. In fact, I'll probably be ostracized just for saying that. But yeah, she probably bumped your relationship to a different level.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
@Wang Jun

You went from potential true friend material to
acquaintance. At a guess, based on personal precedent.

She started all in almost, pushed the boundaries and has since
decided a level based on your feedback and reactions.
I was kind of afraid of that. Probably because of the break-neck speed everything was going at during the beginning.

Part of me wants to try and fix this.... the rest of me know that it can't be.

I've always been Mr. "Fair Deal/Let's Talk This Out," but I also kind of feel that certain types of people, when they've made up their mind about something - are just going to stick with it.

So short of something ultimately dramatic occurring, I guess I missed out on a potential true friend....

Although in retrospect that seems like a human trait more than specific to an ENTP.
We just have a way of achieving it that can be misleading. Your example being
a good representation of that.
I think you are right that people do that in one form or another, but having been on the receiving end, ENTPs do it soooo convincingly. Hence why i'm a little hurt i guess. That might sound strange I suppose, but...

I'm the type of person who doesn't really do the "casual friends" thing.

Most of the folks who I call a friend, i'm willing to "stick my neck" way out for them. But that requires a level of emotional investment that can be quite draining.


As in all things regarding an individual. Her m.o. is hers alone.
My best guess is all I can give.
Thank you for thoughts. Its been quite helpful, if a little sad.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Dude, you have to be very, very careful with both the far-left and far-right at the moment. People have lost their shit. In fact, I'll probably be ostracized just for saying that. But yeah, she probably bumped your relationship to a different level.
Re: The being bumped part... Yep. Just wish i could do something. Ah well.

Re: The Far-Left/Right business.

I know.... It all just seems so Myopic to me. A little too self-involved/ethnocentric.

An example: There was a model by the name of Karlie Kloss who put on a Kimono and dressed herself up like a Geisha. This apparently got her a storm of criticism from a variety of different groups - so much so she had to apologize. The Internet Twitterati even put together an article in Japanese Buzzfeed to try and inform the Japanese internet public about the "great crime....."

To which the reaction was more like "Why are the Americans concerned about something silly like this?"

I tend to feel that way for a lot of things that are deemed "important breaking news" these days.

I kind of want to shake everyone and say "There's a World Beyond all that.... its mysterious, wonderous, beautiful and terrifying all at the same time. You find hints of it when we peel back another layer of mystery with scientific discovery. You notice its fingerprints in that piece of theater you just saw, or in the final pages of a good novel. It speaks to something Fundamental about the things we experience, the joys fortune drops in our laps, the pains we must endure...."

And that's when people blink at me.....and go back to fighting with each other. :sad:
 

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I dont get the political extremes at all. I'll agree people have lost thier shit and are overly theatrical. Anyways im surprised she isnt open to new perspectives or other sides of an argument.

Anyways my thoughts? You shouldnt have to tiptoe around someone you're close to. If she can't handle your thoughts and beliefs on things then she probably isnt worth having as more of than a hi-bye friend. I guess what im saying is...ignoring who she was and focusing on who she is now and what is most likely to happen in the future, are you sure this is someone you want to fret over? Everyone seems like the best shit ever in the beginning but in light of new evidence that can change. I also got this strange feeling that once you stop giving her all this attention that she might come and seek it from you again. Iono, just thinking she's not giving you what you need/want from the friendship so go find someone who will? Maybe talk to her about it first though. Just be sure how you are viewing her is reality and not idealization. We can't change others so it might not matter how you change your behavior, she's going to behave the way she choses to behave.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I dont get the political extremes at all. I'll agree people have lost thier shit and are overly theatrical. Anyways im surprised she isnt open to new perspectives or other sides of an argument.
Oh she is.... that's the confusing thing.

There are days when she's "riding the righteousness train," and the fact that there's a Tea Party type in my class (a breathtakingly brilliant INTJ), probably doesn't help the mood. I think they've finally hit a detente of sorts....

But when were alone and walking or talking for those very brief moments, I see a much more practical side of her that might step back a bit from the brink. To be honest, same goes for Mr. Tea Party as well when i'm alone with him and talking.

Its why i say i don't quite completely understand all the madness going on in the world at the moment. I feel like we're all jumping at abstractions of what we fear instead of interacting with the person in front of us.

I guess what im saying is...ignoring who she was and focusing on who she is now and what is most likely to happen in the future, are you sure this is someone you want to fret over?
There's this quote i remember reading once, about INFJs.. We are the type "most likely to not realize a relationship (friendship, love, working buddies, etc) is over." That resonated a lot with me - If i had to frame it, i think its because connection is so meaningful to us.

I've always been the guy who holds people at a distance, not because i'm cold but because i feel like i met get too emotionally involved. When ive gotten a good read on a person and if i think i can survive it, i might lift the Castle Gate and let them in.

My ENTP friend however, as Fueledby Evil alluded to, did what she always does (at least from what i've observed). She saw something interesting and decided to kick door the down. Chaos erupts, she wins the hearts and minds of those she's interacting with, and POOF - she disappears onto the Next Adventure while people are left chattering about it.



I also got this strange feeling that once you stop giving her all this attention that she might come and seek it from you again.
Ah i don't.... She's picked up a new friend - they hit it off pretty well actually. I guess he does something for her i can't.


Maybe talk to her about it first though. Just be sure how you are viewing her is reality and not idealization.
LOL, yep, those are all the doubts in my head.


I guess what's messing me up here is I can't shake the feeling I did something wrong. But for the life of me I can't figure out what it is - and when i think about this too much I'm like a computer that just got the Blue Screen of Death.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts
 

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Part of me wants to try and fix this.... the rest of me know that it can't be.
Well if she is an ENTP there is always a chance.
The cost to you may not be worth it is all.
Meaning...your way didnt work out the gate so change for her?
I dont think that is reasonable. You sound resolute.


Thank you for thoughts. Its been quite helpful, if a little sad.
Ahhh usually I say too much. I could have padded it a bit better. I left my Fe at the door on that
one.
 

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Just ask her to grab a drink with you and get sauced.

Then you can broach the subject. Or you could just have fun.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just ask her to grab a drink with you and get sauced.

Then you can broach the subject. Or you could just have fun.
Not going to happen.

So a while back she was the type to drink, smoke, and do illicit substances apparently (on an experimental basis - so think more like LSD, less like crystal meth).

She's cleaned herself up - full on Vegan going on 5 years. Won't touch alcohol or anything else at this point. So while she isn't quite "anti-vaccine, let me do yoga, etc." type, she's pretty much become an advocate against all the things she used to do.


I once tried to broach the subject directly - Fe turned on to Max. I can't remember exactly what i said, but it went something like

"You know, i'm not quite sure what's going on right now since we haven't talked like we used to. But i just wanted to say, i've enjoyed our friendship a lot, and I do sincerely care about what happens to you."


She freaked out. She said she felt like i plopped a lot of responsibility on her all of a sudden or that she felt unduly obligated and that could we just pretend I didn't say what i said.

And i thought, "oh... i guess its over then. How sad.."

.....and yet i find her coming within my orbit ever so often.

Hence the confusion.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well if she is an ENTP there is always a chance.
The cost to you may not be worth it is all.
Meaning...your way didnt work out the gate so change for her?
I dont think that is reasonable. You sound resolute.
My ENTJ roommate used to tell me "NFs seem like broken NTs from my viewpoint. You apprehend the things that we do, but it tears at you on the inside when you have to accept the implications of your reason."


I get your point Fueled. Truly i do....my head does at least.

Its the rest of me that.....well.... is having trouble with it.

Ahhh usually I say too much. I could have padded it a bit better. I left my Fe at the door on that
one.
No padding necessary. When you've got to confront some hard truths, better to do so directly even if it hurts.

How else can one be authentic?

Thanks for your thoughts.
 

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Not going to happen.

So a while back she was the type to drink, smoke, and do illicit substances apparently (on an experimental basis - so think more like LSD, less like crystal meth).

She's cleaned herself up - full on Vegan going on 5 years. Won't touch alcohol or anything else at this point. So while she isn't quite "anti-vaccine, let me do yoga, etc." type, she's pretty much become an advocate against all the things she used to do.


I once tried to broach the subject directly - Fe turned on to Max. I can't remember exactly what i said, but it went something like

"You know, i'm not quite sure what's going on right now since we haven't talked like we used to. But i just wanted to say, i've enjoyed our friendship a lot, and I do sincerely care about what happens to you."


She freaked out. She said she felt like i plopped a lot of responsibility on her all of a sudden or that she felt unduly obligated and that could we just pretend I didn't say what i said.

And i thought, "oh... i guess its over then. How sad.."

.....and yet i find her coming within my orbit ever so often.

Hence the confusion.
Huh. No substance abuse. How boring.

I dunno man, based on what you just said, it sounds like she has commitment issues which ENTPs so obviously don't have.

Maybe she's so far up in her independence thing that she's afraid to form close bonds with other people. I experience that. It's a push pull thing where I crave close relationships while simultaneously pushing everyone away to maintain my idea of what independence means. I guess it means being forever alone.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Huh. No substance abuse. How boring.

I dunno man, based on what you just said, it sounds like she has commitment issues which ENTPs so obviously don't have.

Maybe she's so far up in her independence thing that she's afraid to form close bonds with other people. I experience that. It's a push pull thing where I crave close relationships while simultaneously pushing everyone away to maintain my idea of what independence means. I guess it means being forever alone.
Well she does....and she doesn't. She has a few close friends from her past......... who she talks on the phone with and then complains about talking on the phone with to me........but then panics if she thinks a friend might be in trouble.

I like to think (although i have no evidence of this), that many ENTPs have a hug-able squishy friendship side deep down, but that clashes with that desire to be unfettered and free.

The only way to truly tell i guess is if one of those peeps you might truly care about is placed in mortal danger. I've seen what happens when ENTPs lose it when something or someone they care about is hurt. Only people who scare me more when that happens are the ENTJs and INTJs..... long-term inhuman revenge plotting at the absolute maximum.


But i get it, there's that sense of flexibility which you all wish to keep.

That's always been so strange to me - i'm always seeking completion and desiring to concretely define things.
 

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She just sounds really uptight. Maybe you can't figure out what you did wrong is because you didnt do anything wrong? There's a few ways to look at this. Maybe the person whos wrong is her? Not you? Or maybe, just maybe, there is not a right or wrong here and its just people being people. Just got to decide what behaviors we are and are not ok with. Doesnt mean something was done wrong, It just isnt a preference.
 
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