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Discussion Starter #41
^^ This ^^ Again and again. My husband is an ISFJ. The number of times he thought I was arguing a point but I was just asking a question. It's amazing. You can ask me all manner of questions and I won't think anything of it. He assumes I'm being passive-aggressive because his mother is very passive aggressive. I have to give a long explanation before he gets it. Oh well.


Sometimes I argue for shits and giggles. But their short lived and the tone is lighter.
I definitely can't speak for all others judgers, but I know for me, as an Si user, uncertainty is often a very threatening thing and one of the tougher things to deal with.


Even though it varies among types, I've always found it fascinating when I read about the basic J vs. P difference. The main idea that has stood out to me is the idea that Js are stressed out by things being undecided and up in the air, while Ps are stressed out by the idea of things being pinned down in place. It's so interesting to me how the thing that comforts a J stresses out a P, and vice versa.

So as a dom Si user myself, I think sometimes questions come across as threatening because they seem to throw doubt into the mix of something that is already in place. For me, I always want to be able to trust and rely on some things, to know that they're right and that I don't have to worry about them changing. When a question pops up, it can sometimes feel like someone is looking to change it.


Now, this certainly isn't always something that bothers me. I hear questions every day and tons of them I answer happily or enjoy thinking about. And sometimes even though questions are uncomfortable, they can lead to necessary improvements.


But I think Si is sometimes foreign to other types because it has such a strong desire to pin things in place. The notion of the idea of "questioning everything" is very unsettling to someone like me and I could never live my life happily under that philosophy, because I do have such a strong need for trust and reliability. I certainly think traits like dependability and responsibility are good things.


But I also think that for me, it's interesting seeing how my other functions play into things as well. My Ti often leads me to not being able to make final decisions on large scale topics. For example, I am very often in the middle concerning political topics because I always feel like there are more facts to be uncovered and I can't make a definitive decision on either side (which seems to be very different than how both Te doms and Fi doms tend to feel). So it's interesting to see how my Ti can lead me to be more perceiver-like.






it depends on the other 3 letters as well. Just the J or just the P is too vague. You´re a P if your first or second function is Fi or Ti. So the J/P difference alone doesn't give that much information. You need the other letters as well.
I agree with you since the functions do often result in conflicts...an INTJ and ISFJ have completely opposite functions, for example.

However, there's always some form of variation when it comes to type anyways. An INTP and an ISFJ have the same top four functions. In some cases, INTPs get along great with ISFJs. In others, INTPs have more conflicts with ISFJs than INTJs do.


So there's generality in everything anyway. I still think it's ok to just think about what different people think about Js or Ps as a whole.
 
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J and J is pretty bad. J and P is HORRIBLE. Most would assume J's, because J's tend to be more stubborn, but i would say J vs. P. I RAAAARELY get into fights with anyone, but if I ever have I notice that they're P's. I would guess J vs. P would be bad because a P wouldn't understand why a J was being so "anal and stubborn", and a J wouldn't understand why a P was being so "loose, and care free"
 

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I have a lot of clashes with J's, and I've often wondered about this. In relationships especially, I'll wonder like... "Okay, if I was a 'J', like this person, would we get along better because we'd both be all into 'efficiency' and whatever? Or, would that make it worse, because we'd start fighting about our ideas on how to be efficient?" And it's like dang, sometimes it's just easier to pick my battles and go with what the J wants instead of fighting, as long as it's not something that is actually all that important to me. Could a J do that? I have no idea. I'm sure it depends on the person.
 

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I have spent my entire life with Ps--anyone who has ever had a close, familial relationship with me has been a P. This made living with my very P single parent easier because I was happy to do much of the parenting, sending myself to bed on time and regulating my own behavior. Ps can drive me crazy but I get along with them really well. At worst they have me scratching my head a whole lot.

I love Js. Seeing them is like a breath of fresh air: finally, someone gets it! I love getting together and bitching about all the P behaviors we can't stand and how much we like to have orderly plans in place. But the few times there's been conflict (and they are few because these are not people I've ever been particularly close with) the problems become obvious. We can't both be right, but we both need to be. And, for all my J-ness and internal structure, I don't like being bossed around.

But I also think that for me, it's interesting seeing how my other functions play into things as well. My Ti often leads me to not being able to make final decisions on large scale topics. For example, I am very often in the middle concerning political topics because I always feel like there are more facts to be uncovered and I can't make a definitive decision on either side (which seems to be very different than how both Te doms and Fi doms tend to feel). So it's interesting to see how my Ti can lead me to be more perceiver-like.
I feel like my Ni has the same effect. In essence, we're P-doms but that may look different between Si and Ni since they are both doing different things. For me, my Ni is always aware that more data, a different context, could change the outcome. My Te then steps in to create an external order out of the chaos in the world and in my mind, but the two are always somewhat at war with each other.
 

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It depends really. With Js, it's annoying when they can't see things from any viewpoint but their own, and refuse to accept logically sound reasoning purely because it's not their "belief". This is mostly relevant to Fe users though. I usually get along fine with Te-doms, except maybe some narrow-minded SJs.

With Ps, the problem is that they can appear too impersonal and lacking in a strong opinion. They sometimes lack the will or ability to see the extremes or have a firm stance on something. So although they're easier to communicate with, they're not the types that would fully agree with you on something. Like, never really reach a conclusion.
 

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Imagine if in the Big Bang Theory there were two Sheldon’s living together. Most of the disputes that Leonard and Sheldon have would never take place as both Sheldon's are extremely orderly.

When they do get into a dispute, such as wanting the same spot, or a difference in room temperature, it will cause a huge fight that won’t end that day. Even for the Sheldon that “won”, the next day the other will be in the spot again. The couch might ultimately end up being destroyed.
 

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For me, I see obvious conflicts and misunderstandings occurring between E vs. I types, S vs. N types, and T vs. F types,
I certainly see it occurring in J vs. P types
P's feeling stifled by J's, J's viewing P's as unorganized, etc.
I clash with J types just as much as, and actually probably more than P types.
I really see J types clashing with other J types

However, if any P type wants to chime in giving a different perspective, I would find that interesting as well.
Okey
You see too much!
 

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Hmm from a perceiving dom pov I definitely clash with certain J types and rarely or if ever with other perceiving types - I do notice my esfj mom clashing with istj a lot but then again she clashes with p even more - I know that isfj are Pi dom so perhaps that's why you clash with certain J types I'm just guessing


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Probably neither. Stereotypes are usually at their weakest and most innacurate when it keeps to P/J to the point where I find it almost meaningless. I've known way too many anal retentive Ps (especially introverts) and way too many disorganized and flighty Js (especially xxFJs)
I have an ISTJ family member who is almost completely unreliable with anything at all ever. Meanwhile, the ESFJ in my family has directly told me that I'm the most reliable person in my house and I tend to be the "go to" person both in my family and circle of friends when something needs to be done.
 

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I don't think there's really any conflict. The only thing I could think of between a P and a J is that the P might be a little to indecisive for the J and the J might be a little to unspontaneous for the P.
 
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