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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I noticed that when things go bad in a friendship/relationship, INFJs tend to look inward and spend a lot of time trying to figure out what they did anything wrong. We blame ourselves and subsequently internalize the bad dynamics in the friendship/relationship, because we believe it can be rectified if we fix something about ourselves. We also start empathizing with the other person's behavior, allowing us to further blame ourselves and shoulder the responsibility of trying to work on mending the friendship/relationship.

We're sort of the "last to know" in the sense that it takes an outside actor to (repeatedly) point out how this person is mistreating us and how this friendship/relationship is toxic, and how that individual is unhealthy. And once we realize this and after many more efforts and time, we then cut this person off (how we seem to deal with feeling hurt or betrayed) , but inside, we are still silently blaming ourselves for something we may have potentially done wrong, even years and many years later.

Do you guys relate to this? This is a pattern I've been noticing in myself lately. Also, I think that because I have this tendency to blame myself/shoulder the responsibilities, I dislike it when people are focused on blaming others because it refuses to take up any responsibility on their part. I realize that this unhealthy person I know does this a lot - as soon as something happens, it's always about how she feels about the situation, how others made her feel that way, and basically blaming everyone else for how she feels about herself and/or the friendship/relationship. IMHO, I see this as selfish, because for me, I spend a great deal of time examining my actions/words to see anything I did potentially wrong, but this behavior is all about putting the responsibility on others.
 

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My INTP husband and I both have a tendency to blame ourselves, then we need each other to help see things from a more logical standpoint. As long as one of us is able to see things logically, we're good :)

When I fall into the trap of blaming others when things go wrong is when I am overly stressed and anxious; this is really bad when I start trying to blame my husband for things, because he takes me seriously, so, I try to catch myself and not do that.
 

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I prefer to take responsibility for my actions because I believe that I have a part to play in how any situation I'm involved in turns out. While I may take a portion of the blame, unless I'm completely at fault, I won't shoulder the entire blame. Of course as all INFJs know, taking responsibility for our actions means that we can correct them earlier and move on. But I think we could all learn not to blame ourselves excessively. We just have to accept that sh*t happens, we messed up, we did our best to fix it and that's the end of the story. Less emotional baggage that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
^ Wise words! I think lately, after excessively blaming myself, I realized that I should take responsibility for my actions, but my actions only. This will allow me to think more along the lines of "We just have to accept that sh*t happens, we messed up, we did our best to fix it and that's the end of the story."

The only thing is, I'm having a tough time trying to distinguish this though since ive been spending too much time criticizing myself for everything - my actions, as well as my reactions to the other person's actions, etc. I guess I'll be spending some time this weekend mulling this over, so I can move on :)
 

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^ Wise words! I think lately, after excessively blaming myself, I realized that I should take responsibility for my actions, but my actions only. This will allow me to think more along the lines of "We just have to accept that sh*t happens, we messed up, we did our best to fix it and that's the end of the story."

The only thing is, I'm having a tough time trying to distinguish this though since ive been spending too much time criticizing myself for everything - my actions, as well as my reactions to the other person's actions, etc. I guess I'll be spending some time this weekend mulling this over, so I can move on :)
I guess for me it is a matter of perspective. I always feel that it is important to focus on the solutions and not the problem. Once I know I've tried all I could have done to genuinely rectify my mistake, I give myself permission to move on. Because while it is true I might have made some mistake, if I have expended greater effort in trying to correct it or make amends, what good does continued blame serve? Is there any useful purpose in continuing to blame yourself?

Reflection has its uses to understand where you have gone wrong. After which, the next logical and important step is execution of your conclusions. Once all that is humanly possible is done, I let go and not bother myself too much with it anymore. I hope that will help you somewhat in moving on. :happy:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
That does, thanks. =) Just having the outlook you presented is helpful. Often, I think even just having someone to offer another framework to seeing things helps. I guess this is all part of the healing process!
 

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I feel like that all the time and I know it's ridiculous. I'm still blaming myself for some guy who felt like stalking me over the internet. The thing is we used to talk for half a year before he did that, and I just don't understand why would he do this after I was being so nice to him...

Anyhow, I think that somehow I attract this kind of behavior from people...that something I said made him think little of me, and therefore he felt comfortable messing with my head the way he did...it doesn't make sense blaming myself for that, but I still feel this way...
 

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I prefer to take responsibility for my actions because I believe that I have a part to play in how any situation I'm involved in turns out. While I may take a portion of the blame, unless I'm completely at fault, I won't shoulder the entire blame. Of course as all INFJs know, taking responsibility for our actions means that we can correct them earlier and move on. But I think we could all learn not to blame ourselves excessively. We just have to accept that sh*t happens, we messed up, we did our best to fix it and that's the end of the story. Less emotional baggage that way.
Yeah same, I don't think blaming myself excessively is any less selfish bc it doesn't really fix anything when you accumulate guilt, shame and hopelessness. I actually have an allergic reaction to shouldering all the blame, I find it abusive and counterproductive.
You need a balanced view of the situation. In a recent conflict with a friend I was very tempted to lash out at some of the personal attacks he used at me, but I realised that I provoked the thing initially and decided not to react the way I was internally. That doesn't mean I apologised without letting him know that his perception was also skewed.

I actually don't like to feel too responsible for other people's emotions, so I try not to make them responsible for mine. I'm not always on top of this but I'm trying. I know this logic doesn't always work in real human relationships (ugh) lol, so it's good to be able to forget the issue of pride/shame, being right or the one to blame and focus on solutions.
 

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Man you're such a cool chick! I'm friending you LOL

Word for word, I agree with you; it's amaizing. I have noticed the pattern with myself too.

Yes, I also can't stand people who don't take responsibilities for their actions. Part of me also believes if something went wrong, maybeee... just maaaaybe I should've taken two steps to the left and said the word "peanuts" with a different tone and the results would've been different!

I always believed my actions affect something to the point where if that something goes wrong, I blame myself even if the action was TOTALLY NEUTRAL or with good intentions. I start thinking about things like "Oh, god.. maybe I wasn't specific enough. I should've been more specific, they probably took it a different way because I didn't say it more happier than I should've" etc..etc...

I always blame myself first and feel bad when it comes to friends or relationships... ESPECIALLY since I've let them into my inner circle.
 

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I noticed that when things go bad in a friendship/relationship, INFJs tend to look inward and spend a lot of time trying to figure out what they did anything wrong. We blame ourselves and subsequently internalize the bad dynamics in the friendship/relationship, because we believe it can be rectified if we fix something about ourselves. We also start empathizing with the other person's behavior, allowing us to further blame ourselves and shoulder the responsibility of trying to work on mending the friendship/relationship.

We're sort of the "last to know" in the sense that it takes an outside actor to (repeatedly) point out how this person is mistreating us and how this friendship/relationship is toxic, and how that individual is unhealthy. And once we realize this and after many more efforts and time, we then cut this person off (how we seem to deal with feeling hurt or betrayed) , but inside, we are still silently blaming ourselves for something we may have potentially done wrong, even years and many years later.

Do you guys relate to this? This is a pattern I've been noticing in myself lately. Also, I think that because I have this tendency to blame myself/shoulder the responsibilities, I dislike it when people are focused on blaming others because it refuses to take up any responsibility on their part. I realize that this unhealthy person I know does this a lot - as soon as something happens, it's always about how she feels about the situation, how others made her feel that way, and basically blaming everyone else for how she feels about herself and/or the friendship/relationship. IMHO, I see this as selfish, because for me, I spend a great deal of time examining my actions/words to see anything I did potentially wrong, but this behavior is all about putting the responsibility on others.
I definitely relate to this. In almost all of my friendships, I blame myself for every awkward conversation, missed call, falling out, etc. I'm quick to feel abandoned and I often see myself as a burden towards others. It makes maintaining friendships extremely difficult because this self-blame is essentially, paranoia. Having to constantly be reassured of a relationship's good standing is stressful and often annoying for the other person, no doubt. When I don't receive this, I'm quick to either manipulate or seclude myself.

Interestingly, I often blame my parents for everything (small things usually...). haha, i dont know what is going on there.
 

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I don't know if I blame myself for things but when I am alone I take assertive internal actions to redefine how I will approach conversations, well I actually just do all the talking in my head. I go alone and talk to people in my imagination, they respond and such but it really just deals with so much crap and then when I am with people I only need to use so much energy to accomplish the same thing I think everyone else does talking to people "real-time" i reflect within, where-as others reflect outside themselves.

I don't see a problem with either.
as for blaming...
I guess it just comes with the territory of being human. weather you are blaming someone else or yourself you are still using blame. I don't really believe we need that emotion. just deal with your problems and if you are having a ton of problems then I guess just find the best solution to them... I dunno what else to really say...
 

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I used to play the blame game and then I realized it was entirely pointless. Regardless of why, the present is as it is now. Blaming involves looking into the past and saying, "Well if things were different..." What's the point? Find a way to progress forward in a positive light and you'll start understanding that your choices in the here and now are all that's important. We will constantly be bombarded with shit, but we can turn that shit into gold if we believe we can.
 

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I will always blame myself first, after all everything starts from within, with myself, mind wandering for hours, days, weeks, months collecting facts, even though that is not what they think when it comes out. I then blame them. I blame myself again, and realize we're both at fault for our misconceptions. I then realize I'm to blame again. My fault or not, I don't want anything to do with said person afterwards because we're clearly incompatible.

I used to tell my girlfriend's "You could get someone much better than me, why are you even with me?" They always got furious with me. I stopped saying it to girlfriends after I saw the common pattern it brought, but still thought it to myself, still do. I am a masochist, they just have to accept that. I was abused as a child, and it is the only way I know how. It is, normal, to me, thus cannot be thrown away at the drop of a hat. It is like telling me to stop breathing, or that 1+1=3. That, and the fact that I have trouble trusting someone who cannot be more than just to me.

Funny, how all my girlfriends have been jumping from plain to plain, never to settle down, expecting me to follow, while I've been standing between plains waiting for them to pick one, not realizing they never will.
 
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I also tend to take responsibility for other people and to blame myself if things go wrong. It's really hard for me to move on from friendships/relationships because I think if I were just a little more understanding and less selfish and did things a bit differently we'd still have a great relationship. I tend to feel responsible for just about everything going on in my life...
 

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I can definitely relate, and the way I most often fall into depression is by doing this to myself.

Still, I'd rather be self blaming than blaming everybody else. I think either road is a control thing. If it's all my fault, I can control how I change it. If it's all your fault, I can control not having to do a thing about it. On some selfish basic level, it depends on whether I want the situation to change or not.

Rarely is any event entirely under my control in either direction, of course. Good ol' Serentiy prayer.

"God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference."
 

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I used to play the blame game and then I realized it was entirely pointless. Regardless of why, the present is as it is now. Blaming involves looking into the past and saying, "Well if things were different..." What's the point? Find a way to progress forward in a positive light and you'll start understanding that your choices in the here and now are all that's important. We will constantly be bombarded with shit, but we can turn that shit into gold if we believe we can.
Every shit you take totally re-fertilizes the earth, and creates growth opportunities.
ertertwert, what are you doing with your life right now? I'd be curious to know where you end up/ are.
 

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^ I would be curious to know also. ertertwert has changed in a blink of an eye - I'm so amazed, he is now so positive and forward thinking! Really suprising, how changes are so instantaneous. Perhaps he is revealing more of what is within, and what was always there underneath it all...Hmm. I was thinking the same thing too recently, GreenCoyote, but I haven't posted my thought.

Regarding blaming...I'm in an unpleasant state these days, constantly looking at the past, and not getting the point that perhaps things are the way they are for a reason. I'm just constantly getting upset at myself, replaying certain scenarios and making different choices. Really, I am now accepting there is no one else to blame for my life the way it is.

As in the initial post, I do get annoyed at people who don't adopt some self-reflection when blaming others, I think many do, they just don't focus on that, because it is easier to see fault in others, than it is to look within. I used to blame others a lot. But it's all me. I know this now.

Ok, how about this, how do I look at loneliness? How much of this can I blame on myself, or others?
 

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You may call it blaming yourself.
You may call it unecessary.
But I will call it silent awareness.
 
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