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So this is what I've been thinking about recently. Not too seriously, feel free to poke holes.

I'm assuming the Block Universe or B theory of time where past, present and future all exist at once. However our consciousness is limited to perceiving one point at a time. So as our consciousness travels through the block universe, time appears to be linear to us:


Ok... what if we add in the multiverse to the block dimension of time? Now it's not just past present and future that exist all at once in this "time cube" but all the possible outcomes of the universe that exist here as well. However our conscious mind is still limited to one point in time, so time still appears linear to us and our actions dictate the path our consciousness travels in the multidimensional block universe. (That's a whole other statement about free will and determinism, but let's put that aside for now)

Now... what if our conscious mind is what limits us to perceiving only one point in the multi-block universe? That as our conscious mind becomes self aware and differentiates between "me" and "everything else" this limits our perception to one point in the block universe and giving us the sense of time flowing from past, present to future.

But what if the subconscious can actually access different points of the multi-block universe at once? Perhaps it can sense more of a "sphere" of time rather than a point of time as our conscious does. So the subconscious has not only access to "future" events but also different outcomes of different choices we make in these future events. What if dreams are the subconscious jumping through the time cube, sensing time and multiple universes in a completely different way (which is why dreams are so hard to understand through our conscious mind and we lose them soon after waking up)

This might explain psychics, visions of the future, "gut instincts" etc, as our subconscious is accessing the multiverse and trying to get the conscious mind to pay attention to it.

Thoughts?
 

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I think we can dispense with the so-called 'A' and 'B' theory. That material is drawn from 'conventional wisdom', which we should avoid when we are trying to understand things. There is overwhelming evidence that the world does not abide by common sense.

It seems that your question is something like this: Do different parts of the human mind perceive time differently? More specifically, does one part of the mind perceive time in terms of a past, a present and a future, whereas another just perceives time as a constant? Obviously, in order to answer this question we need to ask why one would believe this to be the case. You suggest that such a partitioning might be invoked to explain the existence of psychics, visions of the future and "gut instincts". Presumably, you don't mean to say that there really are psychics, or that people really have visions of the future. Given this, you're just talking about various unusual cognitive phenomena, whereby people strongly come to believe that they are, or have experienced, these things.

Provided that the above is an accurate characterisation of your argument, I'm not sure I understand why you would believe that there is such a partitioning. Suppose it is true, as you say, that there is a subpersonal cognitive process that perceives time as a constant. It's not clear to me how such a cognitive process could help explain something like apparent visions of the future. After all, it does not perceive the future, or even interprets time in terms of that temporal category. Given that this is the case, some other process would have to come along and assign the 'future' category to whatever interpretation this system produces. However, in that case we have to concede that this subpersonal process plays no significant role in explaining why people have apparent visions of the future. That explanatory work is all carried out by whatever system is responsible for assigning the 'future' category, the details of which remain unknown.

I think that the above point applies quite generally. I don't understand why one would think that humans have a subpersonal impression of time as a constant on the basis of any conscious experiences that we have (e.g. having a vision of the future, a gut instinct, being a psychic, etc.). After all, we experience these in terms of a past, present and a future. Thus, it is not clear how an impression of a constant time would contribute to the formation of any such experiences.

Consequently, I don't think that we should posit the distinction you're making. It's possible that we could. However, that would require us to identify some other explanatory desiderata.
 

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Cool - yeah I've kind of thought about most of what you are talking about and I take it seriously. Except for the subconscious part, I hadn't considered that at all. It's interesting. When it comes to something with a lot of ramifications, I am not one to pretend like it can be shut down immediately.

It would be helpful for my own reasons if I could understand how this model would be more general than, or could incorporate the kind of relations that are asymmetrical or not connected. You give a lot of nice topological visuals to carry on your analogies, but I'm not entirely convinced that even the conception of this kind of model would be general enough to accurately portray the reality of the situation. Even though what you describe does seem to tie together.

But like I said I would still have to think about it.
 
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They say that when you die you can simultaneously be anywhere, at any time. And what happens when we die? We lose consciousness, we lose our senses, we lose this:

our consciousness is limited to perceiving one point at a time.
We cannot blame out poor minds for leading us astray. This is what we are. We gotta deal with it. There is probably some reason we don't know about. But building on the mind and its flawed models as tenaciously as we (westerners) do is all on us. "The mind is a great servant but a terrible master," remember.
 

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I'm assuming the Block Universe or B theory of time where past, present and future all exist at once.
I didn't read your whole thread but something here doesn't make sense. "Past" and "future" are by definition things that don't occur at the same time as the present, so either you need some different terms to describe this theory or you need to specify in what sense past, present, and future all exist at once.
 

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I've been thinking about time, off and on, for several years. I believe that there is a more general view of of it all.

I agree with Seq that we should throw out the "A" and "B" theories. Those theories and conventional wisdom gives time a special place in multiverse and it seems that a lot of science does the same thing. My view is that we should stop thinking about time as some sort of special dimension and start thinking about it as the same as any other. A lot of my thoughts are influenced by a couple of short stories, "And He Built a Crooked House" by Robert Heinlein and "Flatland" by Edwin Abbott.

Abbott's view of a sphere moving through flatland from the 2 dimensional square's point of view starts my own thinking that Sphere can just as easily disappear from one place and miraculously appear somewhere else without seeming to physically traverse at least from Square's point of view. Why don't we look at time in the same manner. We currently perceive life as though we travel through time down a single line in the time dimension. What if we think about stepping off of that line and then we have perspective to view the entirety of where 3 dimension life and appear and disappear on that timeline in limited 3 dimensional view. Maybe that's what the gods do are we think of them as omnipotent and omnipresent.

I credit Heinlein as giving me a way to almost view this in my mind and my brain stays fairly active trying to figure out how to step off the timeline.
 

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While your immediate perceptions are somewhat locked in the arrow of time your conscious mind is not locked in it whatsoever (and whether you are dualist, monist, or sth else doesn't really matter) - you can conceive of different futures, you can do mental time travel, etc. etc. so in a way your conscious mind is already into the "higher" multiverse dimensions - you don't need anything subconscious to get there. I'd recommend you watch "Imagining the 10th dimension" which should be somewhere in youtube. As for the psychic stuff:

 

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So this is what I've been thinking about recently. Not too seriously, feel free to poke holes.

I'm assuming the Block Universe or B theory of time where past, present and future all exist at once. However our consciousness is limited to perceiving one point at a time. So as our consciousness travels through the block universe, time appears to be linear to us:


Ok... what if we add in the multiverse to the block dimension of time? Now it's not just past present and future that exist all at once in this "time cube" but all the possible outcomes of the universe that exist here as well. However our conscious mind is still limited to one point in time, so time still appears linear to us and our actions dictate the path our consciousness travels in the multidimensional block universe. (That's a whole other statement about free will and determinism, but let's put that aside for now)

Now... what if our conscious mind is what limits us to perceiving only one point in the multi-block universe? That as our conscious mind becomes self aware and differentiates between "me" and "everything else" this limits our perception to one point in the block universe and giving us the sense of time flowing from past, present to future.

But what if the subconscious can actually access different points of the multi-block universe at once? Perhaps it can sense more of a "sphere" of time rather than a point of time as our conscious does. So the subconscious has not only access to "future" events but also different outcomes of different choices we make in these future events. What if dreams are the subconscious jumping through the time cube, sensing time and multiple universes in a completely different way (which is why dreams are so hard to understand through our conscious mind and we lose them soon after waking up)

This might explain psychics, visions of the future, "gut instincts" etc, as our subconscious is accessing the multiverse and trying to get the conscious mind to pay attention to it.

Thoughts?
Why not just have individual blocks for each conscious moment scattered throughout a sphere instead? Each individual block can be a shade of color or something like that, each shade dictating which timeline it belongs to. Since you suggest that the linearity of time is merely an illusion created by our consciousness, then why must a separate "block" even exist when you can have a sphere describe all possible outcomes in all possible timelines. Much like throwing a hi bounce ball that never stops bouncing (consciousness) in a small 3-D spherical space with each (x,y,z) coordinate representing a specific you, a point in time for that you, and something else (I could be forgetting something)... something else that probably suggests this could have all been done on a flat plane instead with these two variables and not the unnecessary (block or sphere.)
So let's change it, you have a 2-D plane with the x,y describing the specific time for a specific you where a 2-D hi bounce ball (think 'entropically') is bouncing inside the 2-D plane periodically determining whenever you switch to these specific moments. The subconscious here can probably just be described as the ball bouncing to get to another place. Anyways, it's just another way to describe something that's the stuff of popsci, and for all we know, not true. I prefer to think of it as completely linear, as I have no reason not to but it's fun to entertain.

As for explaining physics, visions of the future, "gut instincts" etc, there are rational explanations within our own world for all of these and to suggest that it's our subconscious accessing the multiverse is the same as suggesting it's me (as an entity) somehow puppeteering all of your lives-- an unfalsifiable claim.
 

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I've heard that the only way to measure time is through entropy. Therefore, time could be said to to be a measure of motion.
Measuring time through entropy strikes me as the tail wagging the dog.

This isn't a new topic, there are older threads here, but since the last time I participated the next gen uber atomic clocks have arrived. Set one on a table and another on the floor of the same room and they measure time differently. This reinforces my earlier take that time isn't a physical property per se, it's a conceptualized view of motion.

The argument then was: Place an atomic clock on a high speed vehicle and it runs at different rate than a stationary clock. Voilà! You've succeeded in manipulating time, in other words:. Time travel! Time is a physical property that can be manipulated!

My response to this was you've succeeded in manipulating a clock.

Know why the stationary clock on the table runs faster than the stationary clock on the floor?
 

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Ok... what if we add in the multiverse to the block dimension of time? Now it's not just past present and future that exist all at once in this "time cube" but all the possible outcomes of the universe that exist here as well. However our conscious mind is still limited to one point in time, so time still appears linear to us and our actions dictate the path our consciousness travels in the multidimensional block universe. (That's a whole other statement about free will and determinism, but let's put that aside for now)
This is assuming that there is some way in which perception exists in time the way material objects do - ie that whatever the subconscious "is" takes up "room" within spacetime. One would first need a consistent ontology of this "stuff" that composes the subconscious in order to posit its interaction with spacetime in a block universe.

Now... what if our conscious mind is what limits us to perceiving only one point in the multi-block universe? That as our conscious mind becomes self aware and differentiates between "me" and "everything else" this limits our perception to one point in the block universe and giving us the sense of time flowing from past, present to future.
Why would the mind be flowing within the block universe? Do things such as forces (ie something that might cause the movement of a consciousness through the block) even exist inside the block? Would all consciousnesses be located in the same section of the spacetime block - in other words, how do I know that you're not actually conscious of your section of the block that I would consider to be 7 years from now while my consciousness is located in what we call the April 18, 2019 part of the time dimension within the block?

But what if the subconscious can actually access different points of the multi-block universe at once? Perhaps it can sense more of a "sphere" of time rather than a point of time as our conscious does. So the subconscious has not only access to "future" events but also different outcomes of different choices we make in these future events. What if dreams are the subconscious jumping through the time cube, sensing time and multiple universes in a completely different way (which is why dreams are so hard to understand through our conscious mind and we lose them soon after waking up)
I think it more likely that things such as time and space are categories (in the Kantian sense) the human mind evolved to make sense of the world such that our ancestors could survive.

This might explain psychics, visions of the future, "gut instincts" etc, as our subconscious is accessing the multiverse and trying to get the conscious mind to pay attention to it.

Thoughts?
Why might consciousness develop this way? I'm thinking from an evolutionary standpoint. Was this 'spreading out' of the the subconsciousness a heritable adaptation? Do some people have subconsciousness that are more 'spread out' throughout the block spacetime that others that might offer greater fitness? Is there some way that a person's genetics or brain anatomy could be manipulated to increase, decrease, or completely eliminate this 'spread out-ness' of the subconsciousness?

Provided that the above is an accurate characterisation of your argument, I'm not sure I understand why you would believe that there is such a partitioning. Suppose it is true, as you say, that there is a subpersonal cognitive process that perceives time as a constant. It's not clear to me how such a cognitive process could help explain something like apparent visions of the future. After all, it does not perceive the future, or even interprets time in terms of that temporal category. Given that this is the case, some other process would have to come along and assign the 'future' category to whatever interpretation this system produces. However, in that case we have to concede that this subpersonal process plays no significant role in explaining why people have apparent visions of the future. That explanatory work is all carried out by whatever system is responsible for assigning the 'future' category, the details of which remain unknown.

I think that the above point applies quite generally. I don't understand why one would think that humans have a subpersonal impression of time as a constant on the basis of any conscious experiences that we have (e.g. having a vision of the future, a gut instinct, being a psychic, etc.). After all, we experience these in terms of a past, present and a future. Thus, it is not clear how an impression of a constant time would contribute to the formation of any such experiences.

Consequently, I don't think that we should posit the distinction you're making. It's possible that we could. However, that would require us to identify some other explanatory desiderata.
Couldn't consciousness itself be the mechanism by which perceptions of different events (in the relativistic sense) in spacetime are categorized and sorted into a way that was useful for the evolutionary survival of our ancestors? I'm not saying I agree with the OP's theory, but I don't think it could be ruled out based on this particular criticism.
 

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I just solved time 2 minutes ago, but I have still 10 minutes to convert into distance / speed.

What is consciousness ? What are we conscious, not conscious, subconscious, and what is science ?

My hand is not conscious, but it is sensitive. My screen is not conscious, even if I hug it.

Imagine you are a room, with no light. Inside, there is a lamptorch. If you switch on the light, you get a cone of light. This is your thinking, or very inaccuratly your conscience (which is not correct if you induct thinking = conscience, which is wrong, but admit by psychology, from greek psyche, the conscience). The cone of light (faisceau ?) can be moved and if close enough, you can see the room details.

You can't light all the entire room, this is like a buffer limitation. But you can, with efforts, light many places in the room.

So, when I'm asking how our unconscious part can be or have access, there is a problem because even if I can only check the conscient part, unconscient parts are still here with me. There is not really conscious/unconscious in this way.

Intuition, even if neurosciences have their own conclusions, has something relative to the unconscious, because it's a special link, like we are "inside ourselves", which has as property to work with the conscious while must stay unconscious. It appears that intuition, or its feeling of being from outside, is based on brain areas where the controls of the source is structured to be isolated, so forced to be considered as unconscious. It explains why we really feel it like from outside, even if it comes from us.

It doesn't explain too much for me, but I keep it in mind.

I think intuition has a link with the universe, but not in a rationnal way. This link, or the object of this link is relative to our Universe, but seems (for me) linked to another structure, a multiverse, where each universe is a recursive version of its parent with a specific anomaly. Our universe anomaly could be linked to the intuition, or the luck phenomenon.

So, whatever if you did a good bad theory. Don't worry about sharing it with reasonable persons. There is no better way than to accept our own way, errors, etc. It's better to use your brain for enjoying life, than devalorize others, which is the prove that life hurts you.

Anyway, I think we are not made (as elaborated animals) to be humans. If we are become humans, it's because there is something inside us we want more than we could be. Humanity is this kind, but it doesn't make us humans. I think you (the OP) gives us a good idea what is to be human.

So, cheers ! And cheers to others humans ! (even if not INTP)
 
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