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The boomer generation, the woodstock generation, the "Great Society" generation must apologize to those who follow us for creating the circumstances that will, in all liklihood, bring about the destruction of the greatest civilization in the history of the modern world, the United States. Our largest cities are all on the brink of bankruptcy due to the fact that millions have become multi-generational dependants on entitlement programs spawned by Lyndon Johnson's failed social experiment, "The great society". Many of these cities have become lawless war zones where illegal drug trafficking and violent crime are the rule not the exception. We are the generation of greed and self-gratification gone wild and the only redeeming component of our time here is that many of us are dropping like flies from the bad habits of our selfish wasted lives. We are and have been horrible examples to following generations who will suffer the consequences of a world that is much worse than it was for us. Our children are lazy and addicted to pot and our grandchildren are fat. Let me be the first to say I'm sorry.
 

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The boomer generation, the woodstock generation, the "Great Society" generation must apologize to those who follow us for creating the circumstances that will, in all liklihood, bring about the destruction of the greatest civilization in the history of the modern world, the United States. Our largest cities are all on the brink of bankruptcy due to the fact that millions have become multi-generational dependants on entitlement programs spawned by Lyndon Johnson's failed social experiment, "The great society". Many of these cities have become lawless war zones where illegal drug trafficking and violent crime are the rule not the exception. We are the generation of greed and self-gratification gone wild and the only redeeming component of our time here is that many of us are dropping like flies from the bad habits of our selfish wasted lives. We are and have been horrible examples to following generations who will suffer the consequences of a world that is much worse than it was for us. Our children are lazy and addicted to pot and our grandchildren are fat. Let me be the first to say I'm sorry.

I did not approve of the way the world was back then. And neither did a lot of other people. So we have nothing to apologize for.

And if you don't like the way the world is right now then do something to change it. Apologies even from those that did wrong is not going to change anything. I would suggest that you take action and do something to change the future instead of complaining about the current situation.
 

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The boomer generation, the woodstock generation, the "Great Society" generation must apologize to those who follow us for creating the circumstances that will, in all liklihood, bring about the destruction of the greatest civilization in the history of the modern world, the United States. Our largest cities are all on the brink of bankruptcy due to the fact that millions have become multi-generational dependants on entitlement programs spawned by Lyndon Johnson's failed social experiment, "The great society". Many of these cities have become lawless war zones where illegal drug trafficking and violent crime are the rule not the exception. We are the generation of greed and self-gratification gone wild and the only redeeming component of our time here is that many of us are dropping like flies from the bad habits of our selfish wasted lives. We are and have been horrible examples to following generations who will suffer the consequences of a world that is much worse than it was for us. Our children are lazy and addicted to pot and our grandchildren are fat. Let me be the first to say I'm sorry.
Sackcloth and ashes? Not for me.

People are pretty much the same from one generation to the next. There are a relatively small number of people willing to really bust their ass to get ahead, a much larger number who do the absolute minimum possible, and the biggest group is muddling along somewhere in the middle.

As for the urban decay problems you described, cities have always been high-crime zones, going all the way back to the Industrial Revolution.

"The great society" experiment addressed some very real problems that existed back in the 50s and 60s. It gave opportunities for social mobility to people who had been denied it for a very long time. For 100 years blacks missed out on economic progress, held back by segregation and Jim Crow laws. By the mid-to-late 1960s, urban blacks were packed in ghettoes that seethed with riots and arson every summer. The worst year was the "Long hot summer" of 1967, when there were 159 race riots around the country. The following year (1968) there were riots and fires in more than 100 cities when Martin Luther King was shot. "Burn, baby, burn!" was the watchword of the day. They say you can still see scorch marks on buildings in Washington DC. Today, 40 years later, a big proportion of those same urban blacks have gotten through high school and college, become middle class, and moved out to the suburbs. Hell, we even have a black president now. Thanks to "the great society" experiment, the american dream is alive and well for many blacks, just as it was for immigrants earlier in the century--Italians, Irish, and many others. It's just that it works slowly, across a couple generations.

Of course, new migrants and urban poor keep on arriving in the cities and creating new problems. Now it's the hispanics. But hopefully across a generation or two the american dream will work for them too.
 

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No apologies from me either. Its way to easy to look back and see the imperfections of a president and his policies, and play the blame game. Every generation has its short comings. 20 years from now, people will be condeming the Gen X ers for whatever "sins" they have committed.

Despite its short comings our generation has contributed much to our society and i'd rather focus on that.
 

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...Despite its short comings our generation has contributed much to our society and i'd rather focus on that.
Why.... yes it has! :happy:

Per wikipedia about the Boomers: "As Claire Raines points out in ‘Beyond Generation X’, “never before in history had youth been so idealized as they were at this moment.” When Generation X came along it had much to live up to and to some degree has always lived in the shadow of the Boomers, more often criticized (‘slackers’, ‘whiners’ and ‘the doom generation’) than not. One of the contributions made by the Boomer generation appears to be the expansion of individual freedom. Boomers often are associated with the civil rights movement, the feminist cause in the 1970s, gay rights, handicapped rights, and the right to privacy.

From here: "...The baby boomer generation is one of the greatest generations that the United States ever had...." and "...You should consider that these people were the ones responsible for your current lifestyle and fought for your right as a citizen of a great nation. It is just right that you should treat them with respect and dignity...." and "...This generation is considered to be one of the best generations in the United States history where its economy grew and civil rights were largely emphasized....The baby boomers generation is also where education was one of the main priorities of the United States of America. People who were born in this era experienced fighting for their civil rights during the time of Vietnam War. Baby boomers also created a new kind of American culture. It included The Beatles, Rock and Roll, The Motown Sound, and even Hippies...."
 

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I hold nothing against the boomers, in fact after the war I probably would have made more kids than what was "normal" as well, considering the circumstances. I do believe however, that it is now time for the boomers to step aside and let the next generation take control and do what is right for us and our future. I grew up all my life hearing "it is your generation that will one day run this country." Well, now my generation is in their mid to late 30's, its time for the boomers to step aside and let us have it, we are not getting any younger either.
 

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[...] I do believe however, that it is now time for the boomers to step aside and let the next generation take control and do what is right for us and our future. I grew up all my life hearing "it is your generation that will one day run this country." Well, now my generation is in their mid to late 30's, its time for the boomers to step aside and let us have it, we are not getting any younger either.
Fine with me, as long as you don't mind paying the extra costs for our early retirement. And don't forget--there's a lot of us out here. :wink:

Pay us our social security checks, and we'll put our feet up and drink margaritas in Boca Raton; meantime you can slave away running the country in our place. :laughing:
 

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Maybe imagining that the States is the greatest civilisation in the history of the modern world is part of the problem :)

The apology still sounds kind of grandiose, are we learning anything here?



(this boomer can still run and is heading for the exit, fast....:crazy:)
 

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Maybe imagining that the States is the greatest civilisation in the history of the modern world is part of the problem :)

The apology still sounds kind of grandiose, are we learning anything here?



(this boomer can still run and is heading for the exit, fast....:crazy:)
If the USA is the greatest civilisation, you can thank every nation in the world, because its the immigrants of those countries which contributed and still is contributing to making the USA.

and no I dont think we are learning a darn thing

( follows Afreda to the exit......)
 

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Fine with me, as long as you don't mind paying the extra costs for our early retirement. And don't forget--there's a lot of us out here. :wink:

Pay us our social security checks, and we'll put our feet up and drink margaritas in Boca Raton; meantime you can slave away running the country in our place. :laughing:
I don't mind the boomers running the country per se. I am just saying that it is our time to do things. In fact, we still need your experience and input as well. But, we do need to change the guard. It seems as if we do have our foot in the door but that is about it. In some cases we are also bumping heads in trying to do what is best for your generation and ours too. The boomers numbers are by far greater than my generation and I know its hard to let go, but it must be done. Come on, it is your kids that your handing it over too, we will also do what we think is best as well, but you are our parents and we will not intentionally hang you all out to dry. I dont mind you going to sit on the beach in Boca Raton, hell, you all have earned it. I understand why the boomers are hanging on to their positions, but they need to also recognize the cost of doing so. As I said, this is our time and we now have kids too, and while the boomers are doing what is best for them and gen x, it keeps gen x from doing what is best for gen y. The boomers are set in their ways and understandably unlikely to change, but again, times are changing and the way we are going we are not keeping up because the boomers are holding us back by trying to keep the old school way of doing things. Dont get me wrong, there is a lot to be said for old school, but it needs some modifications and it is not happening. At the current pace, gen x will not really have a chance to have their time, and when it is gen y's turn, they will be totally clueless as to what to do because we will have held on to the past for way too long and very limited exposure to the gen x way of doing things.
 

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I don't mind the boomers running the country per se. I am just saying that it is our time to do things. In fact, we still need your experience and input as well. But, we do need to change the guard. It seems as if we do have our foot in the door but that is about it. In some cases we are also bumping heads in trying to do what is best for your generation and ours too. The boomers numbers are by far greater than my generation and I know its hard to let go, but it must be done. Come on, it is your kids that your handing it over too, we will also do what we think is best as well, but you are our parents and we will not intentionally hang you all out to dry. I dont mind you going to sit on the beach in Boca Raton, hell, you all have earned it. I understand why the boomers are hanging on to their positions, but they need to also recognize the cost of doing so. As I said, this is our time and we now have kids too, and while the boomers are doing what is best for them and gen x, it keeps gen x from doing what is best for gen y. The boomers are set in their ways and understandably unlikely to change, but again, times are changing and the way we are going we are not keeping up because the boomers are holding us back by trying to keep the old school way of doing things. Dont get me wrong, there is a lot to be said for old school, but it needs some modifications and it is not happening. At the current pace, gen x will not really have a chance to have their time, and when it is gen y's turn, they will be totally clueless as to what to do because we will have held on to the past for way too long and very limited exposure to the gen x way of doing things.
Like I said, I'm on board with your idea. But these things cost money; I need assurances that you young folks will continue to support me at a living standard to which I'm accustomed. :wink:

More seriously:

Actually, your claim is entirely justified and very timely. In fact, the process is already ongoing. I'm in my mid-fifties, and if you look at my profile, it says "semi-retired." At my place of business, they pushed just about all the middle manager ranks into early retirement over the last couple years.

Throughout pretty much the entire corporate business community, boomers in middle management ranks are being pushed into retirement; a lot of companies used the recession as a good excuse to shed that middle management boomer fat.

In some cases, the thinking was that boomers have been there too long and are being paid too much; get rid of them and promote up some low-paid youngsters and save money for the company.

In other cases, the thinking was that boomers have access to old-time fat pensions, which are already pretty good-sized by the time the boomers get into middle management --they have enough (or nearly enough) to retire on early as it is. So get rid of middle management boomers early before their pensions balloon to monstrous size and bankrupt the system.

In other cases, the thinking was that boomers are a bit set in their ways and are having trouble keeping up with the new waves of technology coming at them. Upper management is always trying to get more productivity out of workers by applying new technology, but it's tough when middle management isn't keeping up with the new technology or is actively fighting new technologies. So send the boomers into retirement and bring in youngsters who have grown up playing with the new technologies right from the start.

So all in all, the process that you mentioned is well underway, at least in the corporate world. And it's happening for pretty much the reasons that you suggested.

Now if you're talking about pushing out the older politicians at the national level and bringing in young blood with fresh ideas and fresh policies, that's a different story. Politicians tend to linger on past their prime. :laughing:

But for what it's worth, politics are all about entertainment ("bread and circus"). Make it worth their time, and politicians will dance to whatever tune you call. For example, right now we're going through a phase of redistribution of income (socialist style tax-and-spend policies). It happens every quarter century or so. The last time was in the Carter years. The populace gets cocky and thinks that any problem can be solved by throwing money at it. But eventually they crash the economy and realize that even billions of dollars aren't enough to solve the more intractable problems of society. Those kinds of problems require lots of time rather than lots of money.

Economists know this stuff. But you have to let the public learn the hard way. "Bread and circus."

And so the pendulum swings back and forth in politics. IOW, politics is probably less about generations and more about tinkering and experimentation. But the real truth is that much of the substance and essence of our daily life is simply outside the grasp of politicians--there's just not enough money to do everything that the population and politicians want. Politicians can throw some money around to help a given minority group or remove some regulations to make life easier for some (civil rights, abortion, gay rights). But they can't tax-and-spend the entire country to a new level of prosperity in a few years. Spending proposals for the nation as a whole get watered down by the sheer size of the population to the point that they become ineffective and largely unnoticeable at the daily level. IOW, for the majority of us in the middle class, life goes on pretty much the same no matter what the politicians do.

My two cents. Take it for what it's worth. :wink:
 

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Civil rights in America is an interesting myth. First of all there were never any civil rights for the Irish, Italians, Chinese or the Jews. The riots in American cities were certainly a symptom of poverty but the root cause of the poverty was quickly recognized by social scientists as genetically based. Since it was apparent that a mean IQ of 85 was a distinct disadvantage and that the majority of crimes are committed by people with IQ's between 80 and 90, it was decided to expand the welfare system to contain the problem under the guise of civil rights. Even in spite of massvie government programs like welfare and Affirmative action the majority of crimes of all types are still committed by people with IQ's between 80 and 90. Most of the prison populations of the world are dominated by this level of intellect. I guess I didn't smoke enough weed to swallow the bullshit that's been foisted on minds of Americans by the "Great Society".
 

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Maybe imagining that the States is the greatest civilisation in the history of the modern world is part of the problem :)

The apology still sounds kind of grandiose, are we learning anything here?



(this boomer can still run and is heading for the exit, fast....:crazy:)
You will never hear me say straight out that the USA is the greatest civilization in the history of the modern world UNLESS the other person (alfreda in this case) starts to assume and stereotype Americans. So in this case.. The United States of America IS and has been the greatest civilization. My grandparents who came from Europe will tell you the same exact thing. My other grandparents who are 4th generation will also tell you the same thing (obviously).

Sure we haven't always done things perfectly.. what country does..., but on the whole we are (in my eyes) the greatest for mannnny different reasons.

I hate to come off sounding like a loud and proud American, but haters (non American's who come to a thread that has nothing to do with one country being better over another country and stating assumptions about American's in the thread) usually know how to bring that out in me.

It's always the greatest that is hated on. So by all means, keep hating. :p
 

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Nope. Sorry, show me the evidence that I have assumed or stereotyped anything or anyone in the post that I made.

I am staggered that you inferred hatred from my post. If I did the feeling thing I would be hurt, but I am nails :tongue:, so will just say Back off, lady!

I was reflecting how the original post came across. If you are interested in a more detailed exposition of how I feel, read on. If not, hey, don't bother.

Of course being a Brit that comes to an extent from my own cultural background. Jingoism is a bit of a dirty concept in the Uk because great civilisation-wise we are probably 100 years ahead of the States (literally, temporally) and well into apology-land. The kind of national pride expressed on this thread would make many Brits uncomfortable simply because we have been there and all over the world are wrecked economies and countries trashed by the Victorians that are testament to how damaging that mind-set can be.

As it happens I don't think you can actually separate North American culture from Western culture in the second half of the 20th century and onwards as anything particularly different. I think that feeling that you (and I mean this in the sense of "one", not directing it at anyone) can lay claim enough to the world's problems to take responsibility for apologising for them is at the same time arrogant and extraordinarily generous.
 

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This is kind of off-topic, but I'll jump in here on the topic of US greatness.

I agree with Alfreda: I don't think we're "the greatest civilization in the history of the modern world." First off, we're not a civilization. A civilization would be all the English-speaking nations in the world, or it would be something like "Western civilization": the English-speaking nations plus Europe and South America.

Also, I'm not sure we're "the greatest." I think we're a superpower and a truly great country. But "greatest"? Greatest at what? Maybe megatonnage of nuclear weapons or something like that. Maybe the size of our economy, though that threatens to get eclipsed on a regular basis by some newcomer to capitalism or some new economic bloc like the EU.

Personally, here's what I like about the US: Everyone keeps counting us out, yet somehow we still stay on top. Every decade or so the world media announces that the US is done. Finished. In decline. A spent and wasted superpower. It's always been gloom and doom for the US. Once upon a time the Russians were going to bury us--and Communism really did seem to have history on its side as it engulfed half the world in just a couple decades. At another time the rich industrial Japanese were buying up American companies and national landmarks. Then the oil-rich Arab sheiks bought up California and Hollywood. The EU was supposed become the economic center of the world. The Chinese are supposed to overtake us and surpass us with their greater population and cheap labor. And Ray9's apology is just more of the same gloom-and-doom: The drug-addled baby boomers have sold the US out.

And yet somehow the US is still the one true superpower left in the world.

How do we do it? By not believing in our own greatness. We Americans believe in all the gloom-and-doom scenarios just like everyone else, and we're fine with them. If Europe becomes the next superpower, that's fine with us. We never wanted to become the world's policeman. We're not like the British, building empires and bringing civilization and Christianity to the heathens. We've always been isolationist. We had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the two World Wars--we did everything possible to stay the hell out of them. We wouldn't have given a damn about nuclear Russia and the Cold War if Khrushchev hadn't stationed atomic weapons within 40 miles of Florida; we get a little paranoid when someone challenges us in our own hemisphere. If Khrushchev had stayed in Europe and Asia where he belonged, we wouldn't have bothered with him.

We're a global superpower despite ourselves. We build a powerful military and industrial machine for our own security and benefit, and we try to stick to our own hemisphere. Despite our best efforts to the contrary we get sucked into power vacuums around the world. Everyone wants to crawl under our nuclear umbrella and cuddle up with us. And it's neither here nor there to us. Believe me, we don't want to permanently occupy remote countries on the other side of the world. We just want to be liked. :happy:

I think Ray9's comment about "the greatest civilization" was just hyperbole. I think his point was to draw a contrast: How the mighty have fallen. We were once great, and now the fat and flabby boomers have ruined us. Gloom and doom.

Maybe the pessimists are right this time. Maybe the US really is on the way to becoming a shadow of its former self. And in a way, a lot of Americans will be happy to see that day arrive. We never wanted to be the world's policeman. We'll be happy to return to our isolationist roots and hand off world leadership to someone else. Just stay the hell out of our hemisphere and don't mess with the sleeping US giant. :proud:

But personally, I think that's what makes us truly great: We don't seek to be great, we just are. The world tells us we're doomed again and again (we even say it ourselves here in the US), and somehow we still remain on top. We don't seek empires like the Brits did; we just ask to be left alone. But the world seeks us out (or taunts us), and we take up the title of "world's policeman" with mixed emotions and tired resignation. To me, that's the best kind of greatness: The US is a great nation even when it is supposed to be in decline and even when it has no real desire to be great.

Somehow it even manages to be great when the drug-addled, fat, sloppy, self-centered, whiny baby boomers are running it. Imagine that. :laughing:
 

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From here: "...The baby boomer generation is one of the greatest generations that the United States ever had...."
Even better than "The Greatest Generation"? Doubt it.

and "...You should consider that these people were the ones responsible for your current lifestyle and fought for your right as a citizen of a great nation.
How did they fight for our lifestyle?What exactly did they do?

It is just right that you should treat them with respect and dignity...." and "...This generation is considered to be one of the best generations in the United States history where its economy grew
You can thank the Boomers' parents (The Greatest Generation) for the economic prosperity of the 50's and 60's. The Boomers had very little to do with it--in fact, it was their genreal me-first attitude and moral degradation into extereme individualism that has, at its base, helped erode what their parents made.

The baby boomers generation is also where education was one of the main priorities of the United States of America. People who were born in this era experienced fighting for their civil rights during the time of Vietnam War. Baby boomers also created a new kind of American culture. It included The Beatles, Rock and Roll, The Motown Sound, and even Hippies...."
Any evidence for any of these assertions? Also, there's a unique culture within each generation. Gen X's music is awesome in itself as well. Nothing special for the Boomers' to be especially praised.
 
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I agree with Alfreda: I don't think we're "the greatest civilization in the history of the modern world." First off, we're not a civilization. A civilization would be all the English-speaking nations in the world, or it would be something like "Western civilization": the English-speaking nations plus Europe and South America.

Also, I'm not sure we're "the greatest." I think we're a superpower and a truly great country. But "greatest"? Greatest at what? Maybe megatonnage of nuclear weapons or something like that. Maybe the size of our economy, though that threatens to get eclipsed on a regular basis by some newcomer to capitalism or some new economic bloc like the EU.
I agree with you up to this point. I think it would be more apt to describe an "American culture" rather than "American civilization". And "greatest" is very ambiguous.
Personally, here's what I like about the US: Everyone keeps counting us out, yet somehow we still stay on top. Every decade or so the world media announces that the US is done. Finished. In decline. A spent and wasted superpower. It's always been gloom and doom for the US. Once upon a time the Russians were going to bury us--and Communism really did seem to have history on its side as it engulfed half the world in just a couple decades. At another time the rich industrial Japanese were buying up American companies and national landmarks. Then the oil-rich Arab sheiks bought up California and Hollywood. The EU was supposed become the economic center of the world. The Chinese are supposed to overtake us and surpass us with their greater population and cheap labor. And Ray9's apology is just more of the same gloom-and-doom: The drug-addled baby boomers have sold the US out.
Even if your statements are true, that doesn't necessarily mean that America is not in decline now. With the communism thing, a single man in a Russian nuclear sub saved America--and the whole world--from nuclear extinction during the Cuba missile crisis . We're were that close to annihilating each other. And, actually, America is destroying itself from the inside just like the old USSR did, along that same line.


How do we do it? By not believing in our own greatness.
How does belief or lack thereof make us a superpower?

We Americans believe in all the gloom-and-doom scenarios just like everyone else, and we're fine with them. If Europe becomes the next superpower, that's fine with us.
We never wanted to become the world's policeman. We're not like the British, building empires and bringing civilization and Christianity to the heathens. We've always been isolationist.
I think it's pretty obvious even on the surface level that this is entirely incorrect. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Getting ourselves in those two countries is far from isolationist, and by scouring the world for terrorists we are, in effect becoming the world's policemen. In addition, the activities of the CIA have been far from isolationist--in fact, I'd say we are far and away the most interventionist countries the world has ever seen.

A Timeline of CIA Atrocities




We had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the two World Wars--we did everything possible to stay the hell out of them. We wouldn't have given a damn about nuclear Russia and the Cold War if Khrushchev hadn't stationed atomic weapons within 40 miles of Florida; we get a little paranoid when someone challenges us in our own hemisphere. If Khrushchev had stayed in Europe and Asia where he belonged, we wouldn't have bothered with him.
The Red Scare began long before Khrushchev. There was a Red Scare right after World War I and then another one immediately after World War II, and especially in the 1950's. Research Richard McCarthy if you don't believe me. Also, if you believe that we only cared about the Soviets, then obviously know nothing about modern history. I seriously doubt we would have left them alone.


We're a global superpower despite ourselves. We build a powerful military and industrial machine for our own security and benefit
No, more for profit.

and we try to stick to our own hemisphere.
Right, and having military bases everywhere and starting bullshit wars in Asia is keeping to our hemisphere.

Believe me, we don't want to permanently occupy remote countries on the other side of the world. We just want to be liked.
No, more like their oil and money.


But personally, I think that's what makes us truly great: We don't seek to be great, we just are. The world tells us we're doomed again and again (we even say it ourselves here in the US), and somehow we still remain on top. We don't seek empires like the Brits did; we just ask to be left alone. But the world seeks us out (or taunts us), and we take up the title of "world's policeman" with mixed emotions and tired resignation. To me, that's the best kind of greatness: The US is a great nation even when it is supposed to be in decline and even when it has no real desire to be great.
No.
 
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