I think it's important to note that nearly everyone will manifest some symptoms of psychiatric disorders. (Which disorders they share symptoms with will very according to their personality, behaviors, and background). The thing that differentiates the 'normal' (I prefer the term neurotypical) from those who actually have the illness is the extent to which the behavior interferes with one's ability to function in every day life. In other words, if one has mild mood swings every now and then one can be normal. (PMS, anyone?) But if the mood swings are severe enough and frequent enough to make it difficult to maintain relationships and/or hold down a job, then one has a real problem. (Perhaps bipolar or BPD). So then you can't say that since INTJs share symptoms with those who have BPD, there is a correlation between INTJs and BPD. Even if there is, correlation is not necessarily causation.Do you (fellow INTJ's or people who have known or know INTJ's) find that Borderline Personality Disorder is more common with this type than others (personal experiences appreciated), or not so?
Not to derail the thread or anything, but I can't resist INTJ-ing for a moment. I do not think that a BPD diagnosis is an attempt to persecute those who rebel against gender typings. The key to an accurate diagnosis is of course going to be how extreme and/or detrimental the behavior is, not whether or not the diagnosis might offend certain parties. For example, a woman who is as sexually active as an average male would be perceived in modern society as healthy and shouldn't be diagnosed with BPD. (I'm choosing to overlook arguments based on morality). But a woman who throws herself at everyone is doing more than just rebelling against gender type, she's behaving in a way that puts her health on the line, and thus impacts how she functions daily n a negative manner. She should not be praised for her willingness to 'rebel', but offered help and warned about her self-destructive behaviors. (Of course the same would be true for men, but since BPD tend's to be, statistically, a women's disorder like autism is stereotypically a male disorder, I used a woman in this example).::begin feminist rant:: that the diagnosis of BPD has been criticized from a feminist perspective because some of the diagnostic criteria/symptoms of the disorder uphold common gender stereotypes about feminine behavior. The question has also been raised of why women are three times more likely to be diagnosed with BPD than men. Women may be more likely to receive a personality disorder diagnosis if they reject the female role by being hostile, successful or sexually active; alternatively if a woman presents with psychiatric symptoms but does not conform to a traditional passive sick role, she may be labelled as a "difficult" patient and given the diagnosis of BPD. I believe this could be equally true of some men who do not conform to the masculine stereotype and are persecuted for it. ::end feminist rant::
Haha BethDeth - this has nothing to do with your post here, I laughed at your signature quote about the donkey. I lol'ed for about 5 minutes when I read that at work. My colleague thought I was cruel ("what about the poor donkey?!") - the black humour was clearly lost on a non-INTJ!I really do not see how an INTJ would be more common for this disorder....I find it offensive that somehow I can be unwillingly put into having a personality disorder because of my type.
best not tell them I directly quoted from a news item about an unwilling para-sailing donkey then :wink:Haha BethDeth - this has nothing to do with your post here, I laughed at your signature quote about the donkey. I lol'ed for about 5 minutes when I read that at work. My colleague thought I was cruel ("what about the poor donkey?!") - the black humour was clearly lost on a non-INTJ!
That's okay, I should have known better anywayNot to derail the thread or anything, but I can't resist INTJ-ing for a moment.
Nor do I. I would suggest that while the diagnosis was certainly not invented for the purpose of persecution, it presently has sufficiently vague symptoms so as to easily lend itself to such abuses. This is true of any diagnosis when lacking thorough research.I do not think that a BPD diagnosis is an attempt to persecute those who rebel against gender typings. The key to an accurate diagnosis is of course going to be how extreme and/or detrimental the behavior is, not whether or not the diagnosis might offend certain parties.
I think this example is a little too vague for your purpose. If not with 'morality' arguments, how would one decide that the woman is actually putting her health on the line with too much sexual activity, and what does it mean if she is throwing herself at everyone? Is this determined by observing that she is having so much sex that she literally cannot keep up with the rest of her life's responsibilities? This sounds like it would probably be a different disorder, like some kind of sex addiction, and I'm not sure how it would apply... but anyone who is intentionally abusing themselves or seeking abuse should seek help. (<my comment does not include masochists, as they actually seek pleasure, not abuse, through the sensation of pain)For example, a woman who is as sexually active as an average male would be perceived in modern society as healthy and shouldn't be diagnosed with BPD. (I'm choosing to overlook arguments based on morality). But a woman who throws herself at everyone is doing more than just rebelling against gender type, she's behaving in a way that puts her health on the line, and thus impacts how she functions daily n a negative manner. She should not be praised for her willingness to 'rebel', but offered help and warned about her self-destructive behaviors. (Of course the same would be true for men, but since BPD tend's to be, statistically, a women's disorder like autism is stereotypically a male disorder, I used a woman in this example).
definitely not what I'm saying.I really do not see how an INTJ would be more common for this disorder....I find it offensive that somehow I can be unwillingly put into having a personality disorder because of my type.
I worded it wrong...I meant to say there would be no predisposition. There is a difference between feelings of emptiness and isolation which could probably come from the real isolation that INTJs may/may not suffer (and usually this comes down to choice). It does not follow that behaviours of a personality disorder will occur. I do not think that INTJs are more prone to mood disorders or any psycho-pathologies for that matter. They may be just aware of feeling different to the majority of the population and perhaps internalise it and even look for answers in mental illness? Who knows?definitely not what I'm saying.
I'm not saying INTJ's have BPD inherently, I'm asking if there seems to be a predisposition.
Comments are very much appreciated, as is constructive criticism. This isn't exactly "thorough" in any way (after all, it is a poll restricted to one website and one forum-thing -INTJ-) its merely to satisfy my own personal musings.
I did read the feminist argument against it, and it certainly does hold some weight. I've also read that INTJ's are more prone to personality/anxiety disorders. Not sure how true that is, but that is somewhat the point of this forum.
Maybe I'll post a similiar thread in ohh... say... ENFJ or ENTJ.
Well my aim is to determine (as far as I can) whether the disorder SEEMS to show up more with the INTJ because of their extreme personality (such as: an INTJ not exactly taught to handle emotion well, thus exhibiting the symptom) or if they are simply more prone to it.
I exhibit 7/9 of the traits, though I am not as extreme with said traits as the tests make out (for example: mood swings. Usually they are precipitated by stress or a trigger and don't last long, and my "flashbang" anger is typical INTJ).