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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,

I want to know if this is something I did as an INFJ or if I did this because of my life experiences... Which is kinda weird because I experience my life through my Jungian functions, but whatever...

I went through my divorce emotionally before I asked my husband to file... I keep rereading that line and seeing "cold-hearted bitch" written in there, but I can't change the truth. Oh well, here goes. I know "why" I had to do this, but the fact is that if I hadn't divorced my husband in my head first I would never have found the strength in real life to leave. So as INFJ's we feel everything another person feels. I loved that man. I knew what he was going to feel, but I also knew I was going to lose my mind staying in that marriage, so most of last spring I was stripping away my feelings for him. I peeled away layer after layer of my love for him, and that is how I managed to seal my heart off enough to leave the relationship.

Do any of you out there agree that INFJ's can't walk away from relationships they invest in like I invested in that marriage without excessive grief, and that it's because we live a barrierless life? I want a relationship someday with a man who can find the courage to give me the same barrierless love that I am capable of giving him. That seems terribly idealistic, but someday I want that ultimate trust from someone, and what's even funnier is I know that I'm worth that! It occurs to me, though, that people just don't know we do this. They don't see that we give with all of our souls, and I wonder if that's not the sole purpose behind introversion for the INFJ-- that introversion saves us from becoming raving lunatics because so many people hurt us. The vast majority of the people in our lives don't know that the owner never locks the store. Every once in a while we show someone that the doors are never locked and we let them know that they can come in anytime they want and always find us there, but that's an enormously small percentage of the relationships we'll ever have in our life.

Am I crazy? Does any of that resonate? Anyone experience something completely different leaving relationships?

Thank you for your input!
 

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I'm sorry to hear that you divorced your husband. It must've been really bad. I know that if I was married it would've taken a lot for me to consider a divorce. You have my condolences.
 

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Anahata... I can so relate to your thread... to see the end of a marriage (27 yrs for me) is tragic and sad.
I had gone through a long hard difficult time and finally decided to end it...but like you, I had to divorce him in my head...FIRST... to be able to get the strength to follow through.
I thank GOD and family for my children (who at the time had been begging me to leave him for a few years). It was not a happy place; he is very narcississtic, controlling and not very nice. You must remember... when you meet someone at a young age ( I was 17 ) you are clearly not seeing the whole picture and you yourself are not developed/mature enough to see truth. I had live it so long, I am surprised I did not crumble and implode during those years of egg shell walking and self doubt. I can truly say that my personality, family, friends and self love... MADE me strong enough to leave... (besides the fact of him starting to see an ex fiance from over 32 yrs previously before I saw the truth... the marriage was a dud)...
he is not worth the pain or tears I gave him... I am so much stronger.. I left him, I divorced him and I thank GOD for her... she literally saved my life... he was distracted and I was free to move on...
so..... yes, we have to divorce/leave our pain in our minds before we act on it...

hugz to all of us who go through pain and recover... I have now met a wonderful man and plan on spending the rest of my life in joy and bliss....
 

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I went through this myself. I knew I wanted to break up with my last girlfriend after 6 months, but it dragged on for 3 1/2 years. Part of the reason it took so long for me to break up with her was because I knew how much she loved me and didn't want to put her through that shit. Long story short, should have done it sooner. lol Another reason I didn't want to break up with her was because I thought she might be suicidal. Short anecdote: 2 weeks after we break up she calls me and tells me she tried to kill herself and failed. I cried. In front of my mom. lol 2 weeks after THAT, she tells me she was fucking with me for "revenge." Fuck that bitch! :tongue:
 

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I can relate... though I can't say that I have fully done it because I've never ended the relationship myself... I have just anticipated it and was basically gone emotionally and mentally to a degree before the break up actually occurred.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm sorry to hear that you divorced your husband. It must've been really bad. I know that if I was married it would've taken a lot for me to consider a divorce. You have my condolences.
I sincerely appreciate that. It did take a lot, and it's a hard road to walk, but like "America" sings it, "I'm walking man's road..." Take care.
 
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I'm an ntp, but I have nurtured my Fe a lot in my old age.. *yawn, stretch - gets ready to tell a story* It -sucks-. I went from feeling nothing much at -all- for anyone at -all- to feeling like every person I am ever romantically connected with is ripped out of my soul.

The last time I broke up with someone.. it felt like my mind, heart, and soul were sick and dying. But I also look at things in perspective of body chemistry. When we are in love there are particular neurotransmitters and hormones at work.

The mental preparation is something that I have certainly done - its actually more like a ritual that I know well. I have always been one to envision important actions in my mind before actually acting upon them. Sometimes there is a method to follow.

-Falling- in love.. it takes steps.. - also takes steps to get out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm an ntp, but I have nurtured my Fe a lot in my old age.. *yawn, stretch - gets ready to tell a story* It -sucks-. I went from feeling nothing much at -all- for anyone at -all- to feeling like every person I am ever romantically connected with is ripped out of my soul.

The last time I broke up with someone.. it felt like my mind, heart, and soul were sick and dying. But I also look at things in perspective of body chemistry. When we are in love there are particular neurotransmitters and hormones at work.

The mental preparation is something that I have certainly done - its actually more like a ritual that I know well. I have always been one to envision important actions in my mind before actually acting upon them. Sometimes there is a method to follow.

-Falling- in love.. it takes steps.. - also takes steps to get out.
Thank you so much for your insight. I also have to ask, where does the quote on your signature come from? It's very transcendent. :laughing:
 

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Thank you so much for your insight. I also have to ask, where does the quote on your signature come from? It's very transcendent. :laughing:
Austin Osman Spare.

And thank you for understanding what it actually means. A lot of times people think I'm into satanism bc of it. xD

And its not.. its a mixture of hermeticism and chaos magic which are actually just all of what we have been mentioning here - control over patterns in ones own mind.
 
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Although I haven't been married. i relate to what you wrote. It's over in my mind before it's really over.

With my boyfriend (who was also an INFJ...), we both knew in our minds it was over, before it was over. We saw the end before the breakup actually happened. which made the months leading up to it really emotional for both of us. We both saw and felt the increasing detachment yet at the same time we still had this idealistic notion of staying with our first loves, each other.

i've also been in toxic friendships, and i processed everything in my mind before the other person saw it coming. I left and detached myself and doorslammed them, and in my mind, it had been building up. me processing information about them, my feelings towards them, etc. and it was only after the actual detachment, perhaps this person wondered what happened i guess
 

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I can relate to this and I also know that most of my ENFJ friends can as well. I really do not believe this is related to type. I remember a man told me after his divorce "You know we really 'leave' before we separate." And I know this is true of me and of most divorced people I know.

I've also read that when women have affairs it is because they have already fallen out of love in their marriage. But because there is pressure to be the "nurturer" or "loving mom and wife", they won't make the move to separate. They create a situation instead, like cheating.

I've heard men cheat in marriages, due to lack of validation.

However, I am sure both sexes have done either of the scenarios. But I just wanted to point out that it is quite common to fall out of love before the actual divorce.

Also, the more one gives of themselves the harder it is to leave. My ENFJ girlfriend and I were talking about how much we gave in last relationship. Certain things that feel like "I gave more than I would have to anyone else." Or even "I've never done X with anyone else before." So it makes you not want to let go of the relationship no matter what may fall.

I believe this has to do with the distorted feeling that some person can take something from you. For instance, a virgin wants to stay with a guy forever because he was the one she gave her "virginity" to. She makes the relationship work because she gave more of herself than anyone.

I know in terms of ENFPs, we tend to rip open our hearts and expose the rawness. We can feel depleted giving up on a relationship. In our minds it's "Must make this work. He saw my core."

But reality is. No one is different than anyone else. We are meant to be vulnerable in relationships. That is how we experience the beauty of love. But it is also the way we are so prone to being hurt. No wonder trust is so important when we give our hearts away.

But the other way would be to hold something back of ourselves. To always be cautious and to never fully experience the joy of love. I can't live like that. That is not me. I'd rather risk the pain, than to have a dead relationship where I felt nothing.

I think there is a balance too. We can give and be vulnerable while still maintaining our boundaries. That way we are strong whether we are in or out of a relationship. No one "takes" from us if it doesn't work out. We aren't depleted from the experience, but we have grown and have simply gone our separate paths.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Your words are very wise, and I sincerely appreciate that you took the time to share that with me, and with the forum. So here I want to reciprocate because your thoughts resonated with something I wrote to someone else recently:

What of this visceral quality, then, that love is outside of a connection with? It is the state, in which two people acknowledge they are equals and in that shared knowledge find both acceptance and peace. This was the quality that was missing from my marriage… We were not equals. How could a man who hated and despised himself be the equal of his much younger, desperately in “love” bride? How is it possible that I could have peace within myself and know that he could never return either the honesty of my affection or give himself over to trusting it? It is this trust in the other person: that they will—outside of loving you, accepting you, agreeing to be with you everyday—give over themselves to the relationship. This is what it means when two become one, and we were always two! Love cannot conquer that inseparable divide, and even then we were not truly two. Thus the importance of being equals! We were more like one and a half… Sometimes a quarter. My husband was never at peace with himself, never valued his own well being enough to fight for his prerogative in our relationship, and that too is a form of trust, of absolute surrender. You surrender unto your lover/partner the understanding that you will disagree and you’re surrendering both to your fear of being out of alignment with them and your knowledge that the peace of your life will be halved by the force of this misalignment, but that those times are necessary to the fulfillment of the joining of those two lives.

I keep using this word “surrender.” Perhaps I find peace in it knowing I’ve laid down everything for that marriage and now I am surrendering to the knowledge that love not only isn’t enough, it is an externality to the relationship! Love is the place two souls who decided to be together go to when they are whole in their spirits. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could live together in Love forever? But this is not possible! There are days when I cannot go to Love with my partner because I am not healthy enough in myself. When you surrender yourself to a relationship you agree to move together to those places both good and bad. I have never met the person who would do this with me, but I know myself both capable and ready to give that to someone… I tried to give to my husband this way, but the fact that the place he was in was immutable for him defeated my efforts to be truly with him.

A relationship is not love itself. Love is the reward good relationships harvest after tilling the soil of their joined spirits together. I had no partnership. There was no sowing except in the most base forms possible, and therefore, there was no growth/love. Love is spiritual maturity and we cannot always be maturing! There is a time for stasis, for stillness, a time for loss in the heart, and moreover those things are the work that must be done to move into maturity. The relationship is the decision to seek this maturity together. The relationship itself (if it is healthy) shifts and transforms with these natural cycles of progression, and as the two people submit to each other, to growth in themselves, and their commitment to work always for their partner’s growth and nurturing; then, too, they commit to waiting through the times when there is stagnation and to see in the other soul the possibility for yet more development. Then and ONLY then, can there be love… But not before! There can and SHOULD be attraction! There can be a sincere interest in the success and well-being of the other person. There can be shared interests and fascinations, but before there is this acknowledgment of equality, of surrender to the power of learning to present in the life of another this way there cannot be LOVE present in that relationship because the investment of self has never been there.

Thank you again for your words. I found both comfort and wisdom in them.
 

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Your words are very wise, and I sincerely appreciate that you took the time to share that with me, and with the forum. So here I want to reciprocate because your thoughts resonated with something I wrote to someone else recently:

What of this visceral quality, then, that love is outside of a connection with? It is the state, in which two people acknowledge they are equals and in that shared knowledge find both acceptance and peace. This was the quality that was missing from my marriage… We were not equals. How could a man who hated and despised himself be the equal of his much younger, desperately in “love” bride? How is it possible that I could have peace within myself and know that he could never return either the honesty of my affection or give himself over to trusting it? It is this trust in the other person: that they will—outside of loving you, accepting you, agreeing to be with you everyday—give over themselves to the relationship. This is what it means when two become one, and we were always two! Love cannot conquer that inseparable divide, and even then we were not truly two. Thus the importance of being equals! We were more like one and a half… Sometimes a quarter. My husband was never at peace with himself, never valued his own well being enough to fight for his prerogative in our relationship, and that too is a form of trust, of absolute surrender. You surrender unto your lover/partner the understanding that you will disagree and you’re surrendering both to your fear of being out of alignment with them and your knowledge that the peace of your life will be halved by the force of this misalignment, but that those times are necessary to the fulfillment of the joining of those two lives.

I keep using this word “surrender.” Perhaps I find peace in it knowing I’ve laid down everything for that marriage and now I am surrendering to the knowledge that love not only isn’t enough, it is an externality to the relationship! Love is the place two souls who decided to be together go to when they are whole in their spirits. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could live together in Love forever? But this is not possible! There are days when I cannot go to Love with my partner because I am not healthy enough in myself. When you surrender yourself to a relationship you agree to move together to those places both good and bad. I have never met the person who would do this with me, but I know myself both capable and ready to give that to someone… I tried to give to my husband this way, but the fact that the place he was in was immutable for him defeated my efforts to be truly with him.

A relationship is not love itself. Love is the reward good relationships harvest after tilling the soil of their joined spirits together. I had no partnership. There was no sowing except in the most base forms possible, and therefore, there was no growth/love. Love is spiritual maturity and we cannot always be maturing! There is a time for stasis, for stillness, a time for loss in the heart, and moreover those things are the work that must be done to move into maturity. The relationship is the decision to seek this maturity together. The relationship itself (if it is healthy) shifts and transforms with these natural cycles of progression, and as the two people submit to each other, to growth in themselves, and their commitment to work always for their partner’s growth and nurturing; then, too, they commit to waiting through the times when there is stagnation and to see in the other soul the possibility for yet more development. Then and ONLY then, can there be love… But not before! There can and SHOULD be attraction! There can be a sincere interest in the success and well-being of the other person. There can be shared interests and fascinations, but before there is this acknowledgment of equality, of surrender to the power of learning to present in the life of another this way there cannot be LOVE present in that relationship because the investment of self has never been there.

Thank you again for your words. I found both comfort and wisdom in them.
You are certainly an INFJ. :wink: You are very right and I completely relate to what you are saying. Honestly, I've turned down several guys in the last 6 months or so because I intuitively knew beforehand that I could never see them as an "equal". There are a few that I have met that I know I could see that way, but unfortunately life's circumstances does not allow anything to work right now. I'm done putting myself in situations where I am wasting my time hoping that the guy I'm with will magically turn into an equal for me.
 

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thanks for posting this thread.

very timely.
 

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Your words are very wise, and I sincerely appreciate that you took the time to share that with me, and with the forum. So here I want to reciprocate because your thoughts resonated with something I wrote to someone else recently:

What of this visceral quality, then, that love is outside of a connection with? It is the state, in which two people acknowledge they are equals and in that shared knowledge find both acceptance and peace. This was the quality that was missing from my marriage… We were not equals. How could a man who hated and despised himself be the equal of his much younger, desperately in “love” bride? How is it possible that I could have peace within myself and know that he could never return either the honesty of my affection or give himself over to trusting it? It is this trust in the other person: that they will—outside of loving you, accepting you, agreeing to be with you everyday—give over themselves to the relationship. This is what it means when two become one, and we were always two! Love cannot conquer that inseparable divide, and even then we were not truly two. Thus the importance of being equals! We were more like one and a half… Sometimes a quarter. My husband was never at peace with himself, never valued his own well being enough to fight for his prerogative in our relationship, and that too is a form of trust, of absolute surrender. You surrender unto your lover/partner the understanding that you will disagree and you’re surrendering both to your fear of being out of alignment with them and your knowledge that the peace of your life will be halved by the force of this misalignment, but that those times are necessary to the fulfillment of the joining of those two lives.

I keep using this word “surrender.” Perhaps I find peace in it knowing I’ve laid down everything for that marriage and now I am surrendering to the knowledge that love not only isn’t enough, it is an externality to the relationship! Love is the place two souls who decided to be together go to when they are whole in their spirits. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could live together in Love forever? But this is not possible! There are days when I cannot go to Love with my partner because I am not healthy enough in myself. When you surrender yourself to a relationship you agree to move together to those places both good and bad. I have never met the person who would do this with me, but I know myself both capable and ready to give that to someone… I tried to give to my husband this way, but the fact that the place he was in was immutable for him defeated my efforts to be truly with him.

A relationship is not love itself. Love is the reward good relationships harvest after tilling the soil of their joined spirits together. I had no partnership. There was no sowing except in the most base forms possible, and therefore, there was no growth/love. Love is spiritual maturity and we cannot always be maturing! There is a time for stasis, for stillness, a time for loss in the heart, and moreover those things are the work that must be done to move into maturity. The relationship is the decision to seek this maturity together. The relationship itself (if it is healthy) shifts and transforms with these natural cycles of progression, and as the two people submit to each other, to growth in themselves, and their commitment to work always for their partner’s growth and nurturing; then, too, they commit to waiting through the times when there is stagnation and to see in the other soul the possibility for yet more development. Then and ONLY then, can there be love… But not before! There can and SHOULD be attraction! There can be a sincere interest in the success and well-being of the other person. There can be shared interests and fascinations, but before there is this acknowledgment of equality, of surrender to the power of learning to present in the life of another this way there cannot be LOVE present in that relationship because the investment of self has never been there.

Thank you again for your words. I found both comfort and wisdom in them.
You're welcome and thank you!

And well...damn...I know you're a female and all, but I wish my ex would have been like you.

That has been my cry too: I would love to find a partner. No one person controlling the other. It is not a relationship based on "need". It is not one sided. But it is based on two equals coming together, growing both independently and together.

I would love to find a partner who truly believes there are 3 entities in the relationship: him, me, and the relationship. A "circle" around me. A "circle" around him. And a "circle" in between us that represents the relationship itself. Neither one of us force our will upon the other. Rather, we each take responsibility in contributing to the relationship circle in order to keep it alive. Ideally each partner always has one foot in the relationship circle.

My dream would be that during any intense conversations, we validate one another and say things like "I hear what you are saying, and here is what I'm willing to bring into the relationship......." The focus remains on what we are willing to bring into the relationship in order to make the relationship survive instead of "In need this, this and this from you...."

I realize one person might take their foot out, and that puts a lot of pressure on the other person to do all the work to keep it surviving. Hopefully it won't be for too long. And hopefully this is an exception. But the rule would be that both of us have made a commitment to always keep one foot in the "circle".

It's tough being in a relationship with someone who doesn't keep at least one foot in the relationship because they don't recognize it. Or they recognize it but will contribute nothing and let you do all the work. Some people won't recognize the relationship circle and will choose to control and manipulate their partner instead. This is so exhausting and draining to be in relationships like these.

Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry for all that have given it everything they had before they had to walk away. Divorce is no fun. It's ugly stupid and bad. It's not how we saw it happening. We didn't marry to divorce. Of course we did all that we could. The decision to leave was extremely hard and probably a few years developing before most of us ever actually took any action.
 

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Oh my ... I'm the exact opposite side of the spectrum. I'm an INFJ and I'd been with my ex-wife for 10 years (3 married) who had emotionally divorced me 6-8 months ago. We had been trying to work it out. But on the 24th of march (Thursday), she just up and left. And on the 25th, her father called my father that she wants a divorce. (We made it official just last Sunday). Now we didn't even speak and probably never will ... we haven't talked since the day she left. And the doors are closed on all sorts of communication - both legally and culturally.

I don't know about your husband, but if he's an INFJ too, then I'm guessing he's probably more concerned about how you are and his protector side is probably wondering if you'll be able to make something of your life. Being an INFJ, I'm obviously emotionally devastated, but I'm worried less about what's going to happen to my life than what's going to happen to hers.

For me, I'm just hoping that the doors are closed. Closed, Closed. The only thing that's going to destroy me as a person is that the fear that a few months down the road someone, or she herself may call to get back together and that will destroy my resolve to let this continue. But if she's willingly divorced me like you have done, then I would actually be happier.

I had also mentally divorced her .. and it's been surprisingly easy for me to move. But since I was the one in love (and still is), it was one of those "I can't live without you, but I can't live with you" relationships. Now that the "can't live without you" feeling is no longer an option, I am devoting all my strength on remembering all the "can't live with you" reasons and feelings. My focus at the moment is strong (it's only been 6 days) ... but I feel that if I can go 6 days without crashing, then I can probably go a lifetime.

Sometimes its the fear of the loss - rather than the loss itself that makes two people forced to live with each other. For me, it was the fear of the loss that kept me with her for 10 years .. but now that I've realized that losing her wasn't so bad ... I'm having an easier time to let her.
 

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Well, now I know what was happening to me last few weeks before I ended my long-term and also long-distance relationship 9 days ago. It explains me a lot since I couldn't find a reason why it wasn't so f. hard as I thought before. I simply knew I have to do it for me, for him, for higher purposes... Maybe I just had to do the right thing. But I'm still afraid that the worst is already on the way to destroy me...
 

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I went through this myself. I knew I wanted to break up with my last girlfriend after 6 months, but it dragged on for 3 1/2 years. Part of the reason it took so long for me to break up with her was because I knew how much she loved me and didn't want to put her through that shit. Long story short, should have done it sooner. lol Another reason I didn't want to break up with her was because I thought she might be suicidal. Short anecdote: 2 weeks after we break up she calls me and tells me she tried to kill herself and failed. I cried. In front of my mom. lol 2 weeks after THAT, she tells me she was fucking with me for "revenge." Fuck that bitch! :tongue:
I had a similar experience with my last ex. Like you, it dragged on for three years though it was pretty much over in the first few months. After over 20 failed attempts to break it off, with him reacting badly each time by breaking things and punching the wall, I "gave up". By the second year, I had a hard time remembering what I saw in him in the first place and the third year, detesting his presence. Oh well...
 

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Anahata, original_jaws, pinkrasputin, I'm sorry that your marriages couldn't work out.

I'm married to an ISFJ. Even if there is never going to be that intense emotional connection, there is indeed an emotional 'stability'. I pretty much married my mother as she is also an ISFJ. There can be times in the relationship where it is devoid of emotion, not a coldness or darkness, just a void where there should be something.

Those ISFJs need structure and tradition. She will often point out how I do things 'the wrong way'. "It's right, or it's STUPID!" sums it up. You are made to feel inadequate often.

But I'm lucky in the fact there are things we both can FEEL passionately about. That is the great balance that has kept me married 12 years. We are both very passionate about animals on a very high level. We can both feel the same about that baby elephant rescued from poachers. We can both feel the pain that baby elephant must have felt watching its mother be killed.

Its a balance. My wife is BRUTALLY honest at the same time STEADFASTLY loyal.

I guess I wish there was more emotional connection. But knowing why there isn't helps immensely! I know we will never be on par with each other emotionally, but I do consider myself in a very stable relationship.

(that is of course, if she happens upon this post, then I will receive quite the ISFJ ass-kicking!)
 
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